Max Faction Title Too High?

In my whole game experiance I never seen a single Savior Of Luxons But I know plenty of savior of kurzicks.
DID YOU EVER HEARD LUTGARDIS FFF? You earn 400faction+150gold+2kxp every1.5minute. 15k faction every hour. Yes its possible if you really want it. And I allways think that if max title was reduced people got max before was fooled. I am fff only for 2 month and have 1.5million donated.

Lol forgot to say:
/notsigned

Doing FFF you'd have to do 12,500 runs to get the 10,000,000.

Of course you'd only farm 5 million actually...

Kinda high don't ya think?

Of course no one complained, it was a worthless vanity grinding title. Now it's tied to skills. Of course people are complaining.

Which works out to be 375 hours at 1.5 minute a run, a lot less than getting something like tyrian vanquisher on all your characters. And the fact that the title actually contributes to making your skills better.

So the next step is to make vanquisher, cartographer, etc. titles account wide? I don't think so.

Yeah, and it's a shame those spoiled little kids only complain when it affects them. Shows how myopic most of the GW community is.

Spoiled little kids? Spoiled because I only play a couple hours a day and I don't want my next month of game time spent trying to capture the basic level of these skills? Bullshit. I've already given up on them, personally. They are not worth the time required. It was a bad move on Anet's part.

Applying a 1.5 minutes run to the whole shebang is also a very generous estimate to the "quick" side of the fence since it doesn't take into account the inevitable failures that will happen from time to time due to lag spikes or player errors etc, which cause premature deaths, and then the point has to be run again and thus increases the time it takes per run past 1.5 minutes. Not to mention that only players specifically dedicated to FFFing in a Guild/alliance that mostly does only that has any hope of getting faction anywhere near as fast as that.

Nothing would be wrong with making those titles you mentioned account-wide. Any title that takes ludicrous amounts of time to get should indeed be account-wide. But that is an entirely separate issue.

Most people complaining about this don't care about the title or having the title on all of their characters. Chances are they have more talent-requiring titles to display anyhow than a Savior title which only indicates a ludicrous time & energy of dedication to grinding for faction. Hence it is likely they would not even bother to display Savior on all their characters even if they did have it.

Aside from that, many people only play one character since trying to get the high tiers of KOABD on more than one character is senseless. So the idea "It is an account-wide title therefore that justifies that the grind to max it should range from 375 hours at a bare minimum if you are in a Guild/alliance solely dedicated to FFF, to several thousand hours if you are anything else" cannot reasonably be applied across the board.

In any case the complaint is only that the PVE skills that are tied to a "375 to several thousand hours to max a title". That is pretty crazy when one considers how inconsistent that is with Guild Wars' old: "Guild Wars is about skill over time" mantra.

A) Yes the grind associated with gaining maximum power out of the skills is dumb
B) People have managed fine without these skills for a long time. The skills are powerful even at a low level. People will continue to manage without getting the skills to a stupidly high level.
C) The max level is fine. I saw 2 people with luxon(11) yesterday and a good few with (10). Max titles aren't supposed to be easy.
D) It encourages people to AB, which in my opinion is good.



E) I know there's whole threads for this but; Anet, nerf leechers kthnx. There's very little point in encouraging people to AB/FA if every game they are forced to put up with these idiots.

It is high. Afterall I still didnt understood why no one is complaining about the HERO title which doesnt even has a max and it takes WAAAAAAAY more time than this. And Every Hour of FFF you earn 5k gold and till savior 3.75million gold. If you fff 6 hour a day it will take 4 months. If 3 hour a day 8 monthys. If you want it not high at all. And why do you want to max this if you think its too high. Get about Warren Of Kurzicks Of 2.5mil faction r8 its prety nice too. If you so hard core to max all the title in the game you should take the trouble and FFF til 10million.

Edit:
Ow Ow btw why do you want the max to become lower. You need to get Im Very Importan with savior. After All if title become low title wont be more impressive. Then everyonme could get Max Steward Of Kurzicks on 1.2mil.

Oh oh anohter btw() with the announce of new skills you can get 2 times more faction and that would be 4 month of 3hour a day fff.
NOT HIGH AT ALL

It seems alot more sensible now since the update to the title and the way its gained. Although its too high for me to ever aquire its far from impossible and it seems a reasonable target to me. I just increase it a little here, a little there and it gradually goes up, its handy for the skills but im in no rush to max it. Its pretty easy to gain 50k faction in an evening if u really want the max tier u gotta put the time and effort into it.

Maybe because the hero title is just a vanity title. The faction titles, by being linked to the skills, directly effect gameplay.
Maybe its not too high to people who enjoy grinding away there.

Personally 3 hours a day grinding away at the title is far too boring for me to keep it up for any length of time. Games are meant to be fun.

And then there are the casual players who would be lucky to get an average playtime of 3 hours a day total. So for them FFFing 3 hours a day isn't an option, even if they didn't have any other parts of guild wars they prefered playing.

Whats more, because the casual players are online less, they use less bandwidth. Meaning they cost ANET less money than the rest of us do while they paid the same amount as we did. So how is it fair that these casual players aren't able to access all the content ?

Before these skills came out I was honestly able to say that all of the guild wars content was accessible to the casual player. Sure the FoW armor took a while (making it a real achievement for the casual player) and the elite missions required them to arrange a longer playing session. But we weren't talking about spending hours a day, for months, just to get them up to the same stat level as the hardcore players like the faction skills require.

Also how long would it take for a player to max out their Luxon title if they are starting from nothing ?

Why not make it so that the skills are not available until Rank 1 then tie them to the profession's primary.

That way people who have no interest in grinding for factions don't have to, and those who are all about faction farming, AB and rank can continue on without worry that their achievements will not be cheapened.

An idea I had for Prophecies would be to have a PVE skill trainer in the Dragons Layer. That way the only way to gain them would be if you have ascended. These skills could also tie in to the profession's primary.

Just some thoughts.

/not signed omg you people moan that the title is too high so they cut it to 5mill and you still moan and cry about it.

the title is fine where it 10 mill can be reached alot quicker if you fff

leave the title at 5 mill but max the skills at a lower rank ! just leave the max where it is PLEASE !

No its not. Hero title is few times more hardcore and no1 is comlaining.

Avarage time:

400 faction = 1min 36sec

10 mln = 27days, 16hours, 40mins

It tooks me about 6 months to get max kurzik title few months ago , now its 2 times faster .There is about 30 Saviors in the game now, it wil be much more soon , and becouse ppl already got it Anet will not change max lvl for this.

P.S. U can Luxon's Savior in almost same time , but don't askhow i won't tell u

It wouldn't be half as much of a problem if A-Net could just up the amount of faction gained from Kurzick and Luxon quests... or indeed amp up the bounty deal a little more....

Consider that a few moments.
If there was more faction to be gained by actual regular PvE play... than could be gained by Alliance Battle or FFF grind... it would be a lot more acceptable on the psyche to play through for that long and gain that faction legitimately... and thus more people, irrespective of the time taken, would be willing to go through with it without complaining.


There is cause to complain as is though, as by far the shortest means of getting that title to max is an absolutely mind-numbing grind for months on end. A-Net are effectively showing their favour for people with inactive brains and a desire to do nothing more than go through the same rote motions 24/7 with no thought required by rewarding them.

For those of us who feel the need to get the most out of the game... to truly experience it..... this is a hesitating point because few people would truly think that the amount of time required to get those max titles and the skill maximum that goes with them is even worthwhile.

Hmm you say you are bored of 3hour a day grind but dont care hero because they dont have speacial skills. You say a casual player wont do this... But you need to realize: Titles are for people who want to take big(or smaller as protector) goal for a long period of time. If you dont wanna grind 3hour a day for your title just achieve another max title. If whole reason why you wanna get Faction titles are only, only skills you only can use 2 of them as you can have 2 proffecion and they arent owerpowered. Why you would need them so bad that to cange a whole title system. How much you want savior of kurzicks to be then. Supporter 10k Friend 25k Steward 120k Defender 250k Champion 500k? Okay you may want to use some kurzick skills but they arent so much important. What skills you gonna use in those skills. Atm I have Defender and Im using none never bought even 1. They are just skills. Have you maxed lightbringer or sunspear(if you have I would be very ashamed wont I )

Agreed you^^
Is luxon one is breaker hollow run of carryring items to a guyDD

Omg I really wonder why so many people wanted to get faction title all of a sudden. I really do. If it really is for the skills it is like buying a computer to get present flash memory or buying a beer to get present nuts with it.

I think the easy solution is to tie the skills to something other than the title, such as:

1) Defeating Shiro
2) Account faction earned (something like 10k rank 1, 20k rank 2, 30k rank 3...)
3) Account faction earned, then tie to primary attribute (something like unlock at 20k, power increases with attribute)
4) Doing some difficult quests that are available after defeating Shiro
5) Doing some difficult quests that are available after passing through House zu Heltzer
6) Etc

There were and still are plenty of other ways for ANet to make these skills available. Linking them with the Friend of the Luxons/Kuzicks title track was a big mistake IMHO.

These skills are award. Then you should flame anet cause they give pandas or such minis to people who compleated all 3 camping. As I said these are awards to people who got good titles or good places in pvp

Who said you need to have the title? Who said you had to grind for the title? Who said you needed Kurzick/Luxon PvE skills?

No one.

Saying that it takes too much grind to get a title that you do not need, is not a valid argument. In my opinion, titles are supposed to be prestigious. When you display it, it should also show you spent considerable effort into attaining it; whether it's through grind or regular play.

Note that most of the listed max values of the new skill actually hit around rank 9, which is a heck of a lot easier to get than max. Yes they get a little better if you have the max title, but since only a handful of people will have that, you're not missing out on much.

ANET has giving AB faction gain a boost and provided ways to get faction through PvE play. Who knows, maybe they'll boost it some more.

I don't mind, myself. At least it gives me something a little more tangible for winning AB or a reason to wander back into faction and do a little hack-n-slash.

I didnt understood who ya giving feedback to but I totally agree the last part I dont think if you dont want to display this title for prestige it wont worth the time whether if you want to max all titles if you already have easier titles to max or just to use skills. I am grinding this cause I think this gives considerably good gold these days(5k a day is good these nerf days) and give a really cool title. I dont used even 1 skill exept to replace glyph of elemental power with elemental lord

AB isnt the only way to get the title you know...
the duel of the houses(kurzick) and jade arena(luxon) is an excellent and fast way to faction farm. each run takes ~5 minutes and nets 400 factions.
and now with the improved blessing and hard mode you can farm factions while doing something else. you can work on the vanquisher title for echovald forest/jade sea while always in a blessing to work on your kurzick/luxon title or you can farm greens, golds, cash, whatever in those areas while under the blessing to get faction points as well as whatever else you're after...

think outside the box people, you'll be amazed at what you'll find

And offcourse we shouldn't forget that you can AFK-farm it now in PvE.
2hours = 10.000 faction. Nice amount if you keep in mind that it's AFK-farming.

That's a choice everyone has a right to make;Those who want to can, those who don't want can do something else.

Who said you need to buy the games?
Who said you need to have a computer?
Who said you need to eat and breath?

If people can be p!ssed off that the nearest supermarket (or any source of food) is 20 miles away and they don't have a car... then they're fully entitled to be p!ssed off at this...
Alternatively, maybe they're in no position to complain at either and should just shut up and starve to death.


Point: People buy the game for the fun... for the experience... and to do what can be done. People then finding out that "what can be done" and "the experience" involves an absolutely epic amount of NOT fun, it isn't a terribly pleasant discovery and they're not likely to appreciate.
Whether they HAVE to generally or not is irrelevant.

Yes, it is waaay too high. I would actually like to play factions instead of try to get max on the title. Heck even 1 mill is alot, at least what i think.

Care to elaborate?

And Qcho, care to elaborate on the luxon fff claim?

I really wonder what's the complaining about. Here is some of my calculation:

10 mill faction for r12 Kurzick/Luxon (max), get a full bar each day (10), donate that to your guild (make your own if you haven't have one) change it into 20k to the title. This way will require around 50 days of casual AB play.

Now let's go to LB and SS: I've been farming Show of Force + Requiem for a Brain like crazy on my necro to get those at max rank in 5 days, I have 9 other chars, so 50 days in total.

Seems pretty equal to me. Note that Kurzick/Luxon is account based and SS/LB is not.

Yet I don't complaign, it got me a new goal. And AB isn't as mind-numbing as LB/SS... Get to know a few people who you think are good and team up with them. Yeah, i realise that takes time and effort, something you guys clearly DON'T want to invest in this game, suit yourself I'd say...

Believe the maximum is fine, considering it is an account-wide KoaBD+1.

I do like the idea of this though:

People are not actually complaining about titles, they are complaining that it is too difficult to get the Faction PvE skills (and then to get them to a higher level). "You don't need the skills" is a poor argument. What if you can only play a Wammo with Frenzy and Mending until you have grinded 10 mil faction? You don't HAVE/NEED to use anything other than Frenzy or Mending to play the game. And half the people who keep saying you don't HAVE or NEED the PvE skills to beat the game complain when Searing Flames got nerfed. You don't need that skill either.

It is very fast to reach level 5-6 sunspear or 3-4 lightbringer. If you know what you are doing, it is very easy to reach level 8-9 sunspear or 4-5 lightbringer with only two or three hours of farming. ANet's mantra has always been to be friendly to casual players. You can get any build or any skillset you want in an hour (assuming you have beaten the game and/or have access to all the map locations). The hardcore players will generally have access to more skills because they have the gold to buy more skills, but if a casual player wanted to make a MM build on his SS necro, he can get the exact same one fairly quickly. Hardcore players don't get access to unique skills that casual players can't get quickly. They do get unique access to high level titles, armor skins, and weapon skins that casual players cannot afford (but those don't really affect game play).

Getting the Factions skills are already hard enough, but there is a significant difference between Ether Nightmare giving -4 degen vs -8 degen, with Save Yourselves lasting 3 seconds vs 6 seconds, or Elemental Lord lasting 30 seconds vs 60 seconds. The difference is simply too much (in addition to the difficulty of getting the skills in the first place). At least make it like Sunspear where people can get at least 2/3s of the skill progression easier. I am not proposing that we make the title easier, but make it easier to get the skills and to get them to a higher level. This might involve introducing new levels to the alliance title, (instead of 12 levels, make it 16 with 4 more levels at lower cutoffs, that way people grinding for prestige will still be unique while people who just want to play will get reasonably high level skills, or do something else similar).

Some "casual" grind should be required. Sunspear and Lightbringer can be both maxed simultaneously in hard mode easily in under 20 hours total. Thats like 1-2 weeks of play for a casual player to get his sunspear skills, lightbringers signet+gaze, and lightbringer +dam% and damage reduction to maximum. Getting the levels up on the Faction skills are virtually unattainable for casual players. Also, casual players generally don't FFF, those runs require multiple players and are usually done by guilds that farm faction all day.

LOL A HUGE LOL
SO all of you became so interested about the skills. You say the max should be lowered to 5mil or lets even say 2,5mil. For those people who dont wanna grind its also a long grind. You dont need to max to use these titles. Its enought to have 100k donated. The difference between isnt huge with other ranks.

Anyway I am bored of all these sayings that "factions skills are godly" "I..Must..Getttt!" "I hate grind" This thread wont go anywere Im not gonna defend the title to stay anymore bye

I think that the title should be left alone. People who did grind that much deserve to have their grind recognized. I can sorta understand that as I was annoyed at elite skill tomes undermining my legendary skill hunter title. But then, I don't mind too much because I did the title for me and I know that I did the work.

But the way the skills scale needs to be changed. I agree with the suggestion that the skills should max at a lower rank. Or the skills need to be completely dissassociated with the faction titles altogether. Maxing should require some work, yes, but not that amount of grind.

Now see... the problem in your post is the sections bolded in the quote there.

Those are aspects of your experience that you don't seem to realise aren't naturally valid for just anyone and everyone.
For instance, I couldn't possibly "casually" play Alliance Battles for 50 days. Anything more than ONE match in a day for me becomes a grind... I really don't like PvPing... and to me Alliance Battling IS a mind-numbing grind.
Raising Sunspear points at least to Castellan level is easy as pie for me since it can be done throughout the entire Nightfall Campaign. Lightbringer is a little more awkward since the kills that add to it don't really become numerous until the end... though for the record it is still fun sometimes to fight through Nightfallen Jahai for Lightbringer Points (I did it to get to 5th Rank)... But getting the kind of points required for the Kurzick (or Luxon) faction title ranks through blessings and killing things in the respective areas takes an absolutely cosmic amount of time by comparison... and whether it is worthwhile or not can only really depend on whether the player has an epic number of characters over which the effect is spread or not.

Alliance Battles are the slowest method of gaining faction around. The Lutgardis Run is better. The Jade Arena is better. Doing boss runs is better. The Eternal Grove boss run works out at ~2500 faction in ~15 minutes. So thats 10k an hour. 20k to the title in 1 hour. 100k in 5 hours, 10 million in 500 hours.

500 hours to max the title. About 2000 runs in Eternal Grove. Its definatly attainable... nobody is forcing you to max it. Spear of Fury and Save Yourselves are the only 1s i see worth using. Spear of Fury hits the 3adren breakpoint at r4 and Save Yourselves hits the 4s breakpoint at r3.

Uhm, for the record, AB isn't like your regular PvP, you can test fun PvE or PvP builds in it, doesn't matter, no need to flash ranks or have uber builds (hell, ANY class with the most idiotic build can find a team in AB). Though SotiCoto, I really wonder what you DO like.

Since you like comparing things to the real life, let's compare this:
How about an optional competition, with the grand prize a car. You, the casual player answer randomly to your own knowledge to the questions, perfectly fine. Now the second contestant is someone who is really obsessed with cars and answers all of them right. He gets the car, you get a bicycle. Sorry, to me that seems fair.

Same with GW, those skills aren't a must, yet I do understand the reasoning behind your argument and saying you want them for all, perfectly fine, now EARN it. Don't expect everything to get to you on a silver plate. Can't do AB that much, be satisfied that you atleast got your (bicylce) skill. Simple as that.
The 'I bought the game I want everything' mentality won't get you anywhere. I want a tormented fire staff, well, I'm earning every k on my own thank you, just by questing and casual farming.

Wrong. It's more like this:
The grand prize is a car, but the questions are about bicycles. So the person obsessed with cars loses to the person obsessed with bicycles. The person who wants the car gets the bicycle, the person who prefers bicycles gets the car. Furthermore, the person obsessed with bicycles answered these questions without knowing it was for a competition in the first place.

The pve skills are of no use to someone who prefers to spend their time doing AB, FA, or FFF. They are of use to those who like to quest, do missions, vanquish, etc. But the pve skills are given to the former group and not the latter, which is stupid. And the latter need to do the activities of the former to use them for other things.

Also, a tormented fire staff is a LOT easier to get than maxing these pve skills. And the tormented fire staff has NO effect on your gameplay, while these skills do.

It is the skins and titles which should be made for those who like to grind. Not the effectiveness of skills.

I think people need to take into consideration the amount of Time it takes for each title to measure if something is broken.

Amount of Time to get titles playing 2 to 8 hours a day.

Protector or Guardian of Tyria 2 days to 1 week
Protector or Guardian of Cantha 2 days to 1 week
Protector or Guardian of Elona 2 days to 1 week
Legendary Sunspear 1 day to 1 week (I know it's possible to get it in 1 day I've done it in under 8 hours and it was NOT in Remains of Sahlahja) (4 out of 10 characters to go)
Holy Lightbringer 2 days to 1 week using the Remains of Sahlahja run

Now compare this to the Faction requirements of Allegiance rank playing 2 to 8 hours a day and you can see whats broken here.

At 2 hours a day donating 20,000 [40,000 goes to title] faction (donating 10,000 [20,000 faction towards your title] an hour our of Lutguardis for 2 hours) is 250 (6.25 weeks at 40 hours a week) hours of pure faction farming playtime.

That does not sound fun to me when other titles are far easier to obtain but it clearly can be done as a full time job.

you mean 500 Days right?
20,000 x 50 = 1 mil...

This excellent summary is what should be stuck on the door to Anet's design area.

The designers seem to be in denial that players tend to spend serious time on only a few aspects of the game that they enjoy most. Otherwise I can't see why they continue to tie certain rewards to nontrivial amounts of diametrically opposed activites.

Good Idea!!

Keep the max rank the way it is now but max the skills at rank 5. So the hard core can still show their vanity titles and we can use the skills. Another double-faction weekend wouldnt hurt also.

No Grind!
Yes Life!

Seriously... get over it. The titles reach a useful limit at around rank 4 (550k) donated. At least the only 2 skills worth using do. Shadow Sanctuary isn't exactly great. Ether Nightmare sucks. Selfless Spirit, nah. Spear of Fury, a damn good skill, 1 of the most balanced implemented. Save Yourselves, hits 4seconds at rank 3, do you REALLY need to go for 5 seconds? Aura of Might, does the Scythe REALLY need more damage?! Triple Shot is pathetic. etc.

I think some people are complaining for the sake of it...