ArenaNet has nerfed faction for "sticking it out", lets leavers and leaches go unpunished as a rule, and has introduced faction-only-skills requiring lots and lots of grind. This is just wrong, it ruins the fun and reduces sportmanship even further. I have a suggestion.
1. Announce on the chat...
"Fast Faction: Kurzick quit on Odd, Luxon's on Even"
2. Roll the dice.
3. Quit if you're Luxon and an even; Kurzick if you're odd.
It's amazing how fast you can win when there isn't anyone opposing. You no longer waste time to lose; and, when its your time, you gain lots of faction. It's catching on. Just roll the dice and let fate, not skill,
determine the outcome. Since with leavers, griefers, and leaches, it's fate anyway. Why not be explicit about it, get the faction anyway, and well, keep your blood pressure under control?
Fast Faction: Kurzick quit on Odd, Luxon's on Even
cce
scrinner
Wow....... That would probably defeat the entire purpose of AB.
ca_aok
True, but if people did this it would at least draw attention to the pathetic plight of AB right now.
There is NO reason to ever AB outside of your own boundary anymore. A pathetic 300-400 faction reward for 20 minutes of work is rediculous when you can FFF and get the same amount in 2 minutes. This has done absolutely nothing to reduce leechers, since they just afk the whole time what does it matter to them how much faction they get? They don't need to work for it. And this update has INCREASED leavers, since once it becomes clear one side will win, usually at least 1-2 people from the losing side quit, then dooming the already losing team.
There is NO reason to ever AB outside of your own boundary anymore. A pathetic 300-400 faction reward for 20 minutes of work is rediculous when you can FFF and get the same amount in 2 minutes. This has done absolutely nothing to reduce leechers, since they just afk the whole time what does it matter to them how much faction they get? They don't need to work for it. And this update has INCREASED leavers, since once it becomes clear one side will win, usually at least 1-2 people from the losing side quit, then dooming the already losing team.
Gaile Gray
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Originally Posted by cce
Why not be explicit about it, get the faction anyway, and well, keep your blood pressure under control?
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And on the subject of leaving and leeching, I've noted numerous designer discussions this very week about the matter. The problems of leaving and leeching are not dead matters, in our eyes, and as I have said before, I truly do believe that there will be changes made to handle these issues.
Skycluster
And this wouldn't ruin sportmanship? This wouldn't ruin the fun? I don't understand how this is any better.
Why would I (lets say i'm a luxon) wanna role a dice to get faction when I have map favor? Why would I wanna loose to a bunch of tree huggers just cause they rolled a 6? Its not like you have to use these faction-only skills. This weekend is helping you get the faction why not go for it.
Sure I mean you could try it...but really theses 24 people on one map...you have to try to convince all of them? I play this map for fun not to automatically win. I love calling people noobs, and watching people limp away while degen kills them off. I haven't seen leachers for awhile and I don't mind if leavers or griefers leave if we are 100 faction behind.
I think this idea would work for lazy arse people who don't want to play to win who can't learn how to repair or break gates...who don't know how to kill monks, who never even touches urns for defence and who never takes those elite henchies that you can tag along.
This is a fun pvp map, and I simply love competitive play. This isn't the only way to get faction and people who play right deserve the reward.
Why would I (lets say i'm a luxon) wanna role a dice to get faction when I have map favor? Why would I wanna loose to a bunch of tree huggers just cause they rolled a 6? Its not like you have to use these faction-only skills. This weekend is helping you get the faction why not go for it.
Sure I mean you could try it...but really theses 24 people on one map...you have to try to convince all of them? I play this map for fun not to automatically win. I love calling people noobs, and watching people limp away while degen kills them off. I haven't seen leachers for awhile and I don't mind if leavers or griefers leave if we are 100 faction behind.
I think this idea would work for lazy arse people who don't want to play to win who can't learn how to repair or break gates...who don't know how to kill monks, who never even touches urns for defence and who never takes those elite henchies that you can tag along.
This is a fun pvp map, and I simply love competitive play. This isn't the only way to get faction and people who play right deserve the reward.
cce
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Because that would be cheating and it would be wrong. I'm not saying that leeching and leaving are not also wrong, but what's the expression, "Two wrongs don't make a right?"
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Galie,
Overall, I think you and ArenaNet are doing a spectacular job. I will buy GW:EN, and I will buy Guild Wars 2.
That said, I'm really not happy with the increased "grind" regarding these PvE only skills. I'm mostly a 4-6h/week PvE player, on weekends. I'm not hard-core. I have 5 PvE toons: a Mesmer/El (40% playtime), a Monk/Ra (20% playtime), a Warrior/Ne (20% playtime), a Ritualist/As (10%), and a Dervish/Pa (10%).
I'm finding: (a) the title system is absolutely against me, since I spend my time playing 5 separate toons, rather than focusing on one, (b) unless I want to use my monk or warrior, I'm effectively banned from many of the elite PvE areas, (c) the money drain for hero upkeep and time for grinding light-bringer and sunspear points across all players is just... horrible. I'm not liking the bias against multiple-toon players. How about titles be account-wide (and not toon based), further, how about equipment, runes, etc. for Heros be accountwide?
The recent faction stuff... is more or less the tipping point. I'm not even participating. I'm _not_ going to get the new PvE only skills. It's just GRIND.
Evilsod
Lol, i think Anet just ruined AB completely.
And thinking about it... the faction isn't even that good. You get 1500 faction if you win. Thats 8 minutes worth of FFFing. Neither this nor the FFFing is particularly fun. Plus if the enemy doesn't agree, you end up with a very dull AB. If the opposing team has leachers you still have to wait. You have to wait on entrance time.
It aint that great and it spoils the fun for everyone else. Expect Anet to come down hard on it.
And thinking about it... the faction isn't even that good. You get 1500 faction if you win. Thats 8 minutes worth of FFFing. Neither this nor the FFFing is particularly fun. Plus if the enemy doesn't agree, you end up with a very dull AB. If the opposing team has leachers you still have to wait. You have to wait on entrance time.
It aint that great and it spoils the fun for everyone else. Expect Anet to come down hard on it.
Series
This rolling idea is great.
Rusty Deth
"I love calling people noobs"
Oh, you're one of "those" people.
Oh, you're one of "those" people.
Danax
This should happen. Wake Up A-net, and revert the changes now. It doesnt take weeks to revert an update.
lyra_song
We played Ab on friday.
It was a neck to neck battle.
Luxon was leading, then Kurzick, then luxon, then kurzick won.
We lost by less than 7 points.
Now....why the go red do we get a lousy amount of faction points when the points were SOO evenly match?
And this is an IDEAL situation. No leechers. Everyone fighting. Everyone capping.
And the reward still sucks.
It was a neck to neck battle.
Luxon was leading, then Kurzick, then luxon, then kurzick won.
We lost by less than 7 points.
Now....why the go red do we get a lousy amount of faction points when the points were SOO evenly match?
And this is an IDEAL situation. No leechers. Everyone fighting. Everyone capping.
And the reward still sucks.
Skycluster
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Originally Posted by Rusty Deth
"I love calling people noobs"
Oh, you're one of "those" people. |
I don't know whats better this update or before the update -_-. Oh well i shall continue doing AB anyways.
Kelsey Cain
You know the exact same thought crossed my mind a few days ago.
why?
Too many people (particularly during events) leeching and leaving.
Rewards for participating are not worth the effort unless you win. This change has directly caused the number of leavers to increase.
Both of the above mean that playing is rarely fun.
Solution?
Well as I'm sure has been suggested before, apart from the neutral map - All other maps should have reward for PARTICIPATION scaled to the difficulty for the team you are on.
why?
Too many people (particularly during events) leeching and leaving.
Rewards for participating are not worth the effort unless you win. This change has directly caused the number of leavers to increase.
Both of the above mean that playing is rarely fun.
Solution?
Well as I'm sure has been suggested before, apart from the neutral map - All other maps should have reward for PARTICIPATION scaled to the difficulty for the team you are on.
Evilsod
Wtf happened to my edit... i posted alot more than that.
StarrTheInsane
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Originally Posted by cce
Why is this cheating? Leaving isn't cheating, I'm just asking people to "leave" on the role of the dice, so that we can get though this unnecessary grind.
Galie, Overall, I think you and ArenaNet are doing a spectacular job. I will buy GW:EN, and I will buy Guild Wars 2. That said, I'm really not happy with the increased "grind" regarding these PvE only skills. I'm mostly a 4-6h/week PvE player, on weekends. I'm not hard-core. I have 5 PvE toons: a Mesmer/El (40% playtime), a Monk/Ra (20% playtime), a Warrior/Ne (20% playtime), a Ritualist/As (10%), and a Dervish/Pa (10%). I'm finding: (a) the title system is absolutely against me, since I spend my time playing 5 separate toons, rather than focusing on one, (b) unless I want to use my monk or warrior, I'm effectively banned from many of the elite PvE areas, (c) the money drain for hero upkeep and time for grinding light-bringer and sunspear points across all players is just... horrible. I'm not liking the bias against multiple-toon players. How about titles be account-wide (and not toon based), further, how about equipment, runes, etc. for Heros be accountwide? The recent faction stuff... is more or less the tipping point. I'm not even participating. I'm _not_ going to get the new PvE only skills. It's just GRIND. |
I will admit, the number of toons I keep has gone down over the last couple months, but that's mostly because I am deciding what works for me and what doesn't. On the other hand, it's not one of those games where you play thru with a full bar of toons. Once you've beaten some of the missions, you are glad it's done and dread doing it again anyway. On the other hand, I've also had toons I neglected for months, only to pick up a new interest in them later. It's okay to play one exclusively for a while and pick back up another later. They'll still be there and won't get their feelings hurt.
But, this is all my entirely biased opinion: I love the game. The only issue I've ever had with the game is RA. I don't like it, but I got through it, so no big deal.
As for rolling for it...um...I won my first hero battle that way and was very confused by it. I never agreed to roll, but the other guy asked at the beginning of the match and then quit without another word. Needless to say I didn't do many after that. It's tempting, but if that's all it is, it really just becomes a graphics-heavy card game. Hey, that's cool. I've got a coin on me, I'm gonna go rack up some faction with my friends...yeah, they thought it was kinda silly too.
mrmango
This is like what happened in HB. No.
Master Ketsu
Leachers should be treated the same way bots are treated. They are basically bots PvP equivalent, the only differance being that they exist to farm faction without having a person actually controlling them rather then gold.
Really, a simple way to defeat leachers is make it so that anyone who never leaves their starting point and/or doesnt use any skills the entire match, cannot recieve faction.
Really, a simple way to defeat leachers is make it so that anyone who never leaves their starting point and/or doesnt use any skills the entire match, cannot recieve faction.
zwei2stein
Well, this is what you get when you change motivation from having fun to getting bigger numbers.
It's never too late to remove PvE skills, you know...
It's never too late to remove PvE skills, you know...
Shuuda
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Well, this is what you get when you change motivation from having fun to getting bigger numbers.
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floppinghog
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Well, this is what you get when you change motivation from having fun to getting bigger numbers.
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Across The Battle
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Because that would be cheating and it would be wrong. I'm not saying that leeching and leaving are not also wrong, but what's the expression, "Two wrongs don't make a right?"
And on the subject of leaving and leeching, I've noted numerous designer discussions this very week about the matter. The problems of leaving and leeching are not dead matters, in our eyes, and as I have said before, I truly do believe that there will be changes made to handle these issues. |
vaxmor
how do you get the afkers to /resign?
Terra Xin
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Because that would be cheating and it would be wrong. I'm not saying that leeching and leaving are not also wrong, but what's the expression, "Two wrongs don't make a right?"
And on the subject of leaving and leeching, I've noted numerous designer discussions this very week about the matter. The problems of leaving and leeching are not dead matters, in our eyes, and as I have said before, I truly do believe that there will be changes made to handle these issues. |
And the phrase "Two wrongs don't make a right" is irrelevant. You can only say that if there were actually a reasonable solution to the problem that's in existence. There isn't. The second purpose of having two wrongs is that someone will take more notice of two wrongs happening, than one wrong happening. I hope that such an effect will come to light, but it wouldn't be the first outcry I've seen against leechers. You should know that, I hope.
At least you guys are taking a step into the right direction. I remember your earlier quotes saying that leeching is not a problem (last year). It is good!
martialis
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Originally Posted by Skycluster
...but really theses 24 people on one map...you have to try to convince all of them?
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This could work.
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Originally Posted by vaxmor
how do you get the afkers to /resign?
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Onarik Amrak
3 Wrongs make a Right.
1- Reduced faction for losing.
2- Intolerable wait times.
3- Leechers.
1- Reduced faction for losing.
2- Intolerable wait times.
3- Leechers.
Voltar
/shrug
i think playing ab is fun. i guess that's not enough for some people.
i will admit that i've switched my aspenwood to kurzick. i originally did it to play with a friend who wanted to get kurzick armor for his rit, but aspenwood is way easier for the kurzicks so it's easier to win...at least while there's 1 decent prot monk monk guaranteed to be in my group every time.
i think playing ab is fun. i guess that's not enough for some people.
i will admit that i've switched my aspenwood to kurzick. i originally did it to play with a friend who wanted to get kurzick armor for his rit, but aspenwood is way easier for the kurzicks so it's easier to win...at least while there's 1 decent prot monk monk guaranteed to be in my group every time.
Bai
I agree that the Kurzick/Luxon PvE-only skills are too much of a grind. I spent my whole weekend casually doing ABs and Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry, yet I only got faction equal to one title track. I don't know how long it'll take me without the double faction and the urge to quit grinding from boredom..
scrinner
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Originally Posted by Master Ketsu
Really, a simple way to defeat leachers is make it so that anyone who never leaves their starting point and/or doesnt use any skills the entire match, cannot recieve faction.
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A very good solution though then the leechers most probably will use bots to activate sprint at regular intervals or to move to avoid this system but it'll be one awesome start.
Voltar
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Originally Posted by scrinner
]A very good solution though then the leechers most probably will use bots to activate sprint at regular intervals or to move to avoid this system but it'll be one awesome start.
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there's a lot of problems with any solution...even the devs playing ab with a notepad writing down names...that's essentially making another "leech-like" player. that's why we got this kinda lame update which appears to have had no thought put into it. there was probably a lot of thought put into it however all possible soutions had their downsides. i'm not really sure if this one was the least of all evils and it has the unintended effect of increasing the community hate for leechers.
why are these people ffing? is it to sell jade/amber since bots get banned mo/wing it up? maybe there could be a "bot-friendly" farm town with no rare drops in order to divert people away from pissing off the rest of us. maybe they're just REALLY EXCITED about triple shot.
Shadis
I find it a bit disturbing that it's still being talked about considering leechers and leavers have been a problem since Factions was released. These "fixes" did nothing but punish those of us who do fight to the end.
scrinner
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Originally Posted by Shadis
I find it a bit disturbing that it's still being talked about considering leechers and leavers have been a problem since Factions was released. These "fixes" did nothing but punish those of us who do fight to the end.
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Ensign
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Because that would be cheating and it would be wrong.
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Win trading isn't cheating. It isn't wrong. It's the natural response to any game with a badly designed payoff matrix. The Alliance Faction patch changed the payoff matrix from one that sufficiently rewarded honest competition to one that rewarded win trading. If you asked one of your game designers who understands basic game theory, they would tell you the same thing.
The real question at hand is how a reward system that a first-semester game theory student could tell you was going to break messily managed to get onto a live commercial product without being caught by a professional design team.
Series
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Well, this is what you get when you change motivation from having fun to getting bigger numbers.
It's never too late to remove PvE skills, you know... |
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Series
I agree, but instead of removing them, make them do max damage at level 2 of the title. That is reasonably reachable without grind. Or heck, level 1 even. I don't care. If everyone has something, it is a good thing, not a bad
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Navaros
I applaud the original poster for his ingenuity. Indeed if everyone followed that advice, it would help reduce the faction grind and everyone would advance in their faction titles way faster across the board, which is good for everyone. I personally don't see that as cheating, it's merely somewhat reducing the ludicrous grind required to max the PVE skills.
Vinraith
More and more I just think /roll should be removed from the game entirely. Its legitimate uses are so much more minor and infrequent than its illegitimate ones.
Series
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Agreed, except people will complain that they are uber leet with their title and deserve a stronger Triple Shot.
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Let's see if the team lives up to this. I certainly think pleasing 95% of the community is better than pleasing the 5% with these uberranked titles, but who knows what Anet thinks about it 
Ensign
Something struck me while I was in the shower.
Unlike Hero Battles and 1v1 systems, even/odd win trading as a strategy in Alliance Battles creates a Pure Strategy Nash Equilibrium for sufficient densities.
Unlike Hero Battles and 1v1 systems, even/odd win trading as a strategy in Alliance Battles creates a Pure Strategy Nash Equilibrium for sufficient densities.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Ensign
Something struck me while I was in the shower.
Unlike Hero Battles and 1v1 systems, even/odd win trading as a strategy in Alliance Battles creates a Pure Strategy Nash Equilibrium for sufficient densities. |
kooomar
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Two wrongs don't make a right
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