Fast Faction: Kurzick quit on Odd, Luxon's on Even

rolling should be left to events where both sides are too evenly matched to win, I enter a game in order to play it not for someone to decide to roll simply because they are too lazy to play, if you want faction so badly then farm it,

While i would like to have a better reward more in line with what we got when we lost previously i don't think the solution is to mass leave, in a group of 12 wth 3 teams who is to decide this is what is wanted?

I don't leave at any point during a game, i don;t like it and wouldn't leave even if someone else decided thats what they were doing

William, nothing is ever that simple. You see, this /roll idea, well, actually, it is farming. And until a better/more efficient path to get faction comes out, you can expect to see all this quitting, leeching, and rolling behavior go on.

I have a funny story example for you about how this whole debacle is working.

There is this game about star wars with miniatures. You literally move them around a map. Those toys are all over ebay. My nephew wanted to go to a local tourney, and my Brother was too busy, so I took a saturday and went to the local game store with him where it was held.

Well they took pity on me for being old and not really a starwars miniatures collector and all, and I joined too. It was a 100 point game and I got like 8 stormtroopers, 7 grunts and an officer. Everybody had a dozen or two of them because they were common. Hehe, I named my team the Mos Eisley Police Department. This was over a year ago so its a little hazy, but I remember playing and getting 4th place out of 24 even though I had never played the game before or since.

I didn't care - I had fun. I had no ego invested in the game, and my keystone cop "bounding overwatch, maneuver in cover, surround, and melee to death" tactics worked great.

I can safely state that these people took offense at me for walking in and clubbing them to death with stormtroopers. That is because they had ego on the line, and there was a clear-cut line for winners and losers. If this had not been a tourney, then we all probably would have had a good laugh, but that was not the case.

ANet has set up this game with a clear win/lose paradigm, and exacerbated the situation by remove what pittance of a reward losers get. So, why stick in the game if you are going to lose? For players like you, just out to have a good time, then whatever - you're there to have fun. But not everyone is in that position, as evidenced by bad behavior on the part of the community of leavers and leechers.

If the game was rewarding to play, win or lose, then people would play it. That is the problem that the OP is proposing a solution to. Your suggestion to simply go "farm for it" is exactly what they are doing.

The /roll suggestion at least organizes the chaos. Unfortunately, that chaos is in your particular segment of GW, sounds like.

What we all seem to be agreeing on is - make AB profitable winning or losing. It is better to win, of course, but until it is better to lose and stick it out, there will be quitters. Leechers are another issue altogether, but quitting seems to be a more easily solved issue.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

The problem with this /roll thing is that, unlike farming, you're deliberately screwing up the game for participants that are actually there to play. That's what makes it wrong and a flat out moronic idea.

So, are you suggesting that ANet up the rewards for mission completion to provide a better alternative and let AB be for people who want to play again? Say, like Battle of the Houses being worth 1,000 per run, doubled to 2,000 once it is turned in? What are the odds that AB will go back to being....deserted?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

i do see a trend (if this hits)

"Roller Group - invite self"

the groups like someone said before have total power - 8 vs 12, skewing the numbers and throwing AB into a tail spin. Groups with the intent to roll can ruin AB until there's nothing to do except join them.

Gaille, I admire you and think you do a terrific job, but I think Anet does not act fast enough to fix these issues. You have some watch dog banning people for "bot-like behaviour", yet i see none regarding "leech-like behaviour". And yes, I think it is a ban-able offense if the person is repeatedly doing it (as leeches tend to do unlike the people who have to go afk for things out of thier control).

It's sad this roller group thing seems like the best alternative as an end to a means...

Of course there is. The remaining eight can mob and tell the opposing team that they are not leaving and will do everything they can to stretch the game out. Take away the quick, easy faction by making them fight for it... even if 12 v 8. All you need is one shrine to keep is going.

ABing is fine for me. Just did several matches in Saltspray, one leaver about midgame, no leechers on either sides. The issue for ABs doesn't seem too bad.

Tabasco, your post was basically irrelevant and offered little information.

Anyone complaining about grinding:

Let's see... Tyria Grandmaster Cartographer [which I do have] requires that you spend HOURS scraping every area.

Drunkard [without the use of windows] takes you 16.6 hours of sitting, clicking on alcohol for r1, r2 is ten times that. Not to mention... say a single minute of beer is 100g, that's 100,000g for r1, 1 mill for r2. Grind much? Yes. That's because it's a title.

Treasure hunter and wisdom: 10,000 golds IDed and 10,000 chest opened. I'm not even going to explain the grind here.


The point is, TITLES REQUIRE GRIND! Just like faction farming, you grind for it. There is nothing new here except that you want and not need the faction skills. If you want to use faction skills, get the first tier [which was EXTREMELY easy on the weekend event], get your skills, and stop ruining PvP. Nothing left to say after that except deal with it.

For the people who:

Don't give a **** what title you are or why you flaunt yourself around (giving yourself airs),

and

PVE players who would like to use their PVE skills without grinding around in PVP to enhance them,

you make no point whatsoever. I'd like to see PVP system screwed up with rollers. I'm a PVE player and want a complete separation between both PVP and PVE but have to AB for the most faction. I'd like to see your precious PVP messed up beyond belief so I can say "deal with it" like you say to others who don't want to play like you.

The only title I said I had was the tryian map, and it was a VERY minor sidenote. All of the skills are just fine at r1. Oh, and guess what, the ONLY PvPing I have EVER done is AB, and that's not often. Also, ANET didn't have to REWARD people who farm faction with skills, but they did.

It's not like PvE-only skills are a necessity to play the game. You can do just fine without them. Also, I think that leavers should be punished in a way similar to some FPS games, where when you leave a room, you get your gold deducted.

^Agreed. And you can make plenty of faction in PvE by getting a blessing and cleaning out the entire jade sea.

hmmm your "[which i do have]" to your title and pointing out you spent hours getting it, contradicts your cartographer being a "VERY minor sidenote". Don't bull*** me.


a ton of people would disagree with you and would like to have a better way to make them stronger, hence the outrage by the masses at 10,000,000 for this title

I stick to my statement before - I'd like to see AB ruined for everyone, because people who care nothing about faction are forced to "farm faction" for these skills. What kind of reward was that?

I said it took hours, because it takes hours for anyone who gets the cartographer title, which is grinding. If it took two hours, sixteen minutes, and seven seconds to get 100% map, then it wouldn't be grinding and fit into the topic.

Fine. Don't stay at r1. Continuing complaining [while you continue farming] and be like me, stop at r5. 875k compared to ten million? That's nothing to be outraged about and all the skills have decent use.

But don´t forget: i * i = -1

What do imaginary numbers have to do with right and wrong, Kash? Getting a little off topic.

Say someone ONLY has 2 hours day to play GW, so.. If they want this skill they basically need to dedicate 5 days straight to nothing but trying to get it?

Exactly. If you want everything given to you, go get a console game and put in the cheats for all unlocks.

Farming, to my mind, doesn't involve screwing up other people's enjoyment of the game. Farming is usually done by an individual or a group and doesn't affect other groups, AB is the only PvP area where you rely on two other groups to play in order to function properly, people are annoyed in general with leavers and leechers due to them reducing the performance of their side.

If you go into AB and one team does this /roll thing then the performance takes a massive dive, instead of the odd leaver or leecher you now have 4 leavers, or even worse you may end up with 8.

Getting a blessing in HM now is far quicker than AB, 50 dead foes will get you more points than if you lose, and you dont have to wait to get in. When i want to gain points thats what I do

The one thing i have noticed since this update is that I rarely see leechers anymore, due to the pittance of a reward for losing. to revert back to it then i assume we would see an increase once again in leeching. Leavers are always a problem as some folk just quit when you are losing.

When i want to play AB I dont particularly want to wait 5 to 10 minutes to get in just to be faced with a third of the team rolling and then leaving, I'm sure a lot of people out there love to hang about for that length of time get into a game then fail within seconds only to have to go out and wait another 10 minutes before doing it all again.

Quite simply that is highly tedious to me, as far as i can see it would be as much fun as watching paint dry.

However i do know the Star Wars Minatures game, played it quite often, and i saw many people that hated losing or took offense at being beaten by new players or what they considered silly teams, but thats what its like in all areas of life. however to be similar to this situation then you would have to had suggested to the players that you roll a die with them and highest win instead of actually playing. You said you played so how is it similar? Whether you are playing in ernest or just for fun you still play, this suggestion here is that you dont play but leave it to chance, and thereby not only defeat the purpose of the game, but also adversly affect others enjoyment of the game.

I have played many games, and in all of them I play to win, I don't appreciate people playing against me that can't be bothered, or don't really want to play. Whya re they there, what is the point? I play to my last man, i try every tactic and i never give up, if I lose then i know its because i have been beaten by a better player, I don't mind, the fun is in competeing, and you learn new tactics by being beat.

However, you are mistaken if you believe I am a AB player, my main play here is in PvE, and my main aim in the game is to complete titles, and while I am enthusastic in attaining them I do like to go to PvP and play for pure fun, and yes it does get me titles too, but i have no beliefe that i'm going to max any i'm just not that good or dedicated a player.

This isn't an "unlock", it isn't a vanity like 15k armor, it is a skill you use to play the game.

How about if you want to WORK for everything, go get a copy of World of Warcraft. In order to play that game, you have to spend endless hours grinding away. Nothing to do with player skill or anything, NOTHING handed to you, just working for stuff. Others don't find "work" fun. See, older people have jobs, school, etc. and if they want to work, they will do so in real life. Some people thing games are supposed to be for fun, not working hard and every day to accomplish something. If you think games are better when you spend all day grinding away to get more power, then there are games made to suit people with your tastes. Guild Wars is not one of them and when it turns into one, the community finds a way out. This is rolling.

You said 'a skill'. How many skills does a skill bar have? 8. How many skills already exist? A lot. If you don't want to work to get 8 skills, then ignore them. All titles require work. If you can't have fun without titles, then work and don't complain. Oh, and yes it is just like 15k armor. You don't need it to play the game. You don't need it to beat the game. Everything was just FINE before the skills were even added.

I bet if this catches on Anet is going to Ban the first person in every AB match who says "We're going to ROLL. Pls leave if you lose".

No, they will do something like halve the reward for winning.

I don't like things given to me, I like a challenge. A real challenge, not a grind. My biggest disappointment is Anet's claim to avoid grinding with the original release of GW Prophecies, that is why I stopped playing WoW for this game. When campaigns are accomplished the only thing left for a PvE player are titles, and quite frankly all of these titles really just turn Guild Wars into one thing, Grind Wars.

Aside from that having leavers and leechers completely nullifies one's skill in PvP. This whole faction system is horribly broken due to Anet's fatal and irreversible mistakes and the theres only so many ways it can be fixed, which brings me back to my original point. Boost the awards so everyone can get the skills, everyone will be over and done with this crappy system. No more complaining about it, no need to discuss it, the only people who will remain ABing will be the people who enjoy it for what it is, the people who aren't just faction farmers.

if they really do that ppl will be pissed off as the grind just got 2x longer. more QQ ftw! hmm maybe i should start buying up Amber/jadeites now in anticipation of the nerf

LoL, that's a good one. Punish people no matter what they do.

Vanity armor can't give you an advantage in PvE, but skills cans.

If people want to grind for titles I say go ahead, have fun. But ANet should never have attached skills to a title like Luxon/Kurzick, which takes a huge investment of time to reach even the middle rank on.

You people don't understand appreciation. All you do is complain. The rit, sin, ele, necro, and ranger are very useful at r1. The warrior one makes only single second differences as the ranks go up, the rit skills doesn't even need allegiance rank. Just appreciate r1 and get over it.

Most of the KurLux skills suck, will not argue with that.

stats on FoW armour set = stats on 1k armour sets

stats on r12 luxkurx skill > stats on r1 luxkurz skill

in case 1 the grind is optional for the nice looking armour set, which will not give any advantage over someone who didnt grind for a FoW.

in case 2, the r12 luxkurz skill will provide the grinder with a stronger skill(set) than someone who didnt grind.

ANet will probably kill the /roll emote all together

Address the problem with a quick fix that doesn't solve the underlying problem in true ANet style! blah

But the skills are crap anyways mostly, so somebody without the skills at all has a stronger skill set than someone with r12 kurlux

Edit past this point:

Beating around the bush without accepting a flawed update.

Reminds me of reducing the cost of overused necro skills along with the SR nerf.

They will beat around the bush and change a couple more things first, then after a month or so they will fix it.

then we paper rock scissors till they kill that too

The difference between r1 and r12:

warrior = three seconds
necro = 12 damage 6 energy
sin = 4 health regen
mesmer = three energy and hp degen
rit = 48 health, which isn't even interesting compared to all your spirits moved at once



See people? Minor minor minor. Of course r12 is BETTER, but the difference is small.

oh thats okay then - the different between major vigor and sup vigor is only minor, so its all okay - feel free to sell all your sup vigors at maj vigor prices now.

welcome to the fact that there is a difference, and for the more or less the first time, grinding is rewarded with a more powerful skill(set)/char.

ROFL!! You guys are arguing over something that is probably not going to matter for very long. I think you're forgetting 2 important facts here.

1. Gaile and the devs are reading this thread.
2. Gaile has already posted and said that A-Net considers rolling to be cheating.

Wanna bet the roll command will be removed from all AB maps in the next update?

so yeah, yeah, yeah...faster faction...

then ab isn't fun (some of us tried ha and never joined a decent gvg guild and factions pvp is the "fun" pvp for us)...if the point is to alert anet to our discontent with the leecher "solution" then i think we're a little late. it pretty obviously didn't work and people are pretty obviously unhappy with it.

we could all be smart-asses about this or do something else until they "refix" it if it's that unpleasant.

i will admit that if people did this successfully, it would be one of the few times the community displayed togetherness...or mob-mentality.

I hope the devs are reading this. People have to resort to drastic measures (or exploit a skill/build to hell) to get ANY response or change from them...

this is not aimed at Gaile (i love her)

I personally think that leeching isn't REALLY an issue in AB because you can control who goes in with you. If you are one of the people that randomly spam invites to everyone and never say a word before going in... honestly, what do you expect? (I'm not saying that everyone does that, but you can usually figure out who a leecher is before you enter. Because I'm careful, I maybe get one leecher 1 out of 50 games)

A better change would be a complete reversal and buff of faction awarded for losing. This would encourage people to stick it out and actually learn strategy. I can't even begin to describe the amount of times I have been on the losing side and people just give up and mob until its over.

Quite frankly, if I didn't care so much about respecting the other players in the game, I would leave too when I saw that things were going badly. The faction rewards for losing now are marginal, at best.

I noticed you used the word "work" a lot in your explanation. Interesting word to use in a game. Games are not supposed to be work and this game was sold to many people on the promise that casual players could get all the perks that hardcore ones would have. Funny how the grind nuts forget that.

Regardless of the faction you get AB is still fun. If you start implementing the rolling crap you turn it into the lame Hero Battles. I for one will never leave AB just cause some idiot on my team wants to roll the die like a little b**ch.