Guildwars really do dominate WoW...

I am pretty sure A.net would LOVE to see GW get "owned" like that!

I'm not so sure - it isn't exactly "pro WoW".

If my opinion of the game wasn't already as low as possible, I'm pretty sure it would have dropped after that.

Your opinion would drop because of a South Park episode?

Just so you know more hours played doesn't mean more fun. Guild Wars really was designed for the casual market in particular, with hardcore stuff as frill. The optional hard mode is an example of the frills added for hardcore players.

WoW on the other hand is not designed for casual players so much, because right off the bat levels give you advantage no matter HOW you cut it. Levels being time spent ingame.

My o my, Zinger is back.

I would have to agree with Zinger on certain points, such as some bias in the article. WoW being easy to level doesn't make sense either.

Also the article predates Burning Crusade.

However I disagree with Zinger that each match in PvP is not different. Even if people run cookiecutters, there are DIFFERENT cookiecutters. Surprise surprise!

It IS skill over time spent if you straight up buy PvP unlock packs, to be honest with you. Sure you might need to master weapon swaps and other minor points, but ultimately it comes down to the grasp of the game.

I think the article concentrates too much on the monthly fee factor.

Zinger's counterpoll exposes some of the same counterarguments like " It was rated so low only by people who are too young/poor to afford the SUPER DUPER EXPENSIVE 15$/mo" ; "and the people that though 15 bux was expensive. rofl" ; "its the little kids who couldn't get a hold of mommy and daddy's wallets, what do you expect?"; "Welcome to the world of MMO's, mother @@%%er. Any good MMO has a monthly fee at around 15 bucks a month"; " All of those people who responded to that poll are clearly Guild Wars fanboys who, if they weren't cheap asses and forked over the $15 a month would be saying how much GW sucks compared to WoW. ".

A lot of posters did express the fact that Guild Wars is NOT meant for prolonged play time after finishing campaign. Which is rather true, when you consider it is episodic in nature. From Zinger's WoW forum thread: "After doing all the missions, being on a high ranked PvP guild, and doing that on multiple chars, it gets really boring."

You have to really think about the market that GW appeals to. The aren't appealing to people with 40 hours a week to play the game.

Sousui stated: "The lack of a fee also means essentially, the game can be forgotten and then come back to. no need to worry about spending money while not playing." That's exactly the business model of the game. DUH?

If you're going by playerbase, the statistic is really skewed by Asian players who LIKE GRINDING. Most Asian made games focus on grinding to high levels in the hundreds. To them that is "content". The regional demographic of WoW is mostly in Asia, believe it or not.

In the end however, you cannot downplay monthly fees. Call people cheap or whatnot, but the sheer amount of WoW private servers signifies the unfriendliness the monthly fees are to players that just want to have fun and log on once in a while. The incentive for GW private servers is extremely low, which means you have a significant REAL playerbase.

Guild Wars has sold that many copies. Copies don't mean players. This has to be emphasized more.

I advise you look up "satire" in the dictionary. That episode was actually advertised on the official WoW website, and was incredibly popular.

Fanboyism is annoying. End of Story.

Ermm..how can you judge games you have not played?

I've played other MMO's during my 2 year stint 'playing' GW, most have been superior.

EVE is a great game but required too much time. Very few immature kids as well, due to the monthly fee and the steep learning curve.

WoW is a good game but required too much grind for me. It has it's problems but superior PvE and a decent fan base. (yes that means not everyone on WoW is a moron unlike what most people here think)

CoH/CoV were not for me, but had their charms.

I didn't say WoW is bad, I'm just believe that no game is worth paying monthly, I'd rather spend that money on something more important.

I thought that this was really cute anyway I prefer the GW graphics anyday.It would be a much better game if all the pve nerfs were gone but I understand why they do it.I am not talking skills here either.

GW = casual players

WoW (other pay per month) = hard core players

Its as simple as that. If you can't come up with $15 a month you have bigger problems then a video game in the first place. For most people that's not a big deal.

That is because the first few didn't understand the sarcasm. Sarcasm on the internet is about as clear as a brick wall unless you say that it is sarcasm.

About 8 million play WoW, and people are easily found to play with on just about any server. And if you weren't sure, just check the server load during peak hours to find one with a medium load.

That is also incorrect. I've seen people talk about WoW even when they were on 3 different servers. Just because you can't play with someone with an already established character, doesn't mean that they can't talk about the game.

The whole thing is a bunch of hooey anyway. When the last WoW reviewer gives WoW a zero and cites the low level cap (60, at the time) as one of the main reasons why he gives the nod to GW - there's something not right. And when WoW is rated either 10 or 0, with nothing in between, it just shows how completely biased those opinions are.

a little biased toward GW, but good read ty

LOL... now that was funny !

Keep in mind the reason they made fun of it was because of its success.

People should stop comparing WoW to GW imo. They are soooo totally different.
I'll do it myself:
GW is instanced, WoW is not
GW is free after purchase, WoW is not
GW rewards skill, WoW rewards time spent
GW is also for casual play, WoW is mostly for hardcore gamers, wouldn't wanna play a game casually that has that monthly price
GW has as much of updates as WoW, if not, more
GW has PvP which is (fairly, considering ppl whining over nerfs etc) balanced, WoW's PvP is <no comment>
WoW is a grind, in GW there is no need to grind to be part of the game (you don't need Obsidian Armor to defeat Abbadon)

I played WoW myself for some less than a month and I can see why people like it. I certainly don't. I don't like killing wolves til I'm lvl 2 and then killing bigger wolves til I'm lvl 3 and then even bigger wolves til I'm lvl 4 etc.

I say, start comparing WoW to GW2 when it comes out.

Not entirely. WoW has many instances. The outside world is persistent but that's it.

Again flawed. If you want to be competitive in pvp you MUST buy every chapter and future chapters

Half way true. GW rewards memorization and build making abilities not per say skill based.

Completely true

Completely false. WoW has way more updates than GW does. WoW players cry just as much for/against nerfs. Just go to the warlock forum. WoW's pvp is completely different than GW though with the new arena style pvp its getting closer.

There is a lot of grind in GW. If I had to start from scratch to unlock all my skills, mods, and everything else I've aquired I'd never return to GW.

This is why you are really qualified to compare the two? You obviously have little WoW experience by you own admission. Btw the game doesn't really start until after lvl 20. Everything up to then is more like a tutorial.

Agree.

8 Million play, but most are in Asia. "To hit the full 8.5 million, Blizzard counts 3.75 million in China, 1.6 million in Europe and additional few hundred thousand in South Korea, Australia and Asia."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...s-Magic-Number

Free to play MMOs like Cyworld, Maple Story, and Granado espada (renamed Sword of the New World for North America and Europe) dominate in Asia though which is why it is odd that most of WoW's playerbase exists in Asia. On the casual side of things, games like Shot Online Albatross 18,War Rock, Voyage Century, Shot-Online, Myth War, Tales of Pirates, Global MU, Fishing Champ, and Kartrider surpass WoW by miles.

TO put it in perspective, "KartRider claims 160 million players, including one third of all South Koreans."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/103/12

If they read his post and read the article, its pretty clear he is being sarcastic. But I think a few just wanted to bash him. So yeah, its not the OP(Zinger) or the internet fault if they didn't catch on. GG player base.

Wait 8 million? The Escapist actually wrote an article on about WoW population number. Maybe you should go read that.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/

Even still, what about the servers that have a low population? Oh wait, if someone wants to go to another server, they have to start another character again! But I can't believe people have to level 3 characters on 3 different servers just to play with someone else? My god, WoW isn't very group friendly at all. Just shows how Blizzard wants people to consistently grind the level over and over again.

Gee...I wonder why! Considering WoW has been out a lot longer than GW.

LOL! So true, he was also cool before he started messing with his nose >_>

True

After you buy the product, the game is free. There is no monthly price, that is what I meant.

GW's PvP involves a lot of thinking, strategies, tactics, methods and decisions to be made. PvE a bit less, but high-end areas also has this.

I haven't done much PvP in WoW, cus I love GW's PvP too much. Bout the updates, I think Anet does a heck lotta more for it's money.

Yes there is grind in GW, but you only have to grind if you choose to do so. To be part of the game, there is no neccesary grinding involved. Not in PvE and certainly not in PvP (if you don't count in the witty, snobby ranked ppl).

I didn't say I was, these are just my personal opinions on the two, some are facts. Everyone should just think of the games what they want, and play whichever they want.

Edit: another difference which is important to me too: GW's graphics are su-weet!

yeah, i've played both. wow is bigger with more to do. the problem with wow is that stats are gear-based and blizzard keeps shifting the cap on gear. that means you put a lot of effort into grinding rep or something and then blizzard adds an expansion that has green lvl 60 quest rewards that nail your epics.

f blizzard

Some of GW's player base is just as oblivious. GG player base is right.

LifeInfusion posted the same thing 25 minutes before you did. Maybe you should have read that.

@LifeInfusion:

That wasn't really the essence of the comment that I made. The claim was that it would be hard to find people to play with, which is false.

Not to mention, that if we were to count the "3 million worldwide" for Guild Wars, it would be easily divided up similar.

Most people pick the server that they want to play on before hand. Most of these people either meet people on their server or made sure that they picked a sever with their friends were on. Otherwise, people normally pick a server with medium load to guarantee that someone is in fact playing on that server. This has been done for a long time with other MMOs as well so its pretty traditional.

If that wasn't enough, they have free* and paid character transfers. (* Usually free when a server is being decommissioned or divided from player overload.) And as for level grind, there are numerous tutorials on how to grind to the max level in a week.

This is a whole lot of noise for nothing.

We can apply that PvP>PvE . Because PvP is more tactical than PvE.

If we always play PvE,it will bore.

In GW's PvP armor and level isn't important but In Wow they are important.

And have wow's skill quality as much as gw's skill quality? I think,no!

Bean... It is an honor to have an episode of South Park/Simpsons devoted to the real world person/corporation/title... It's like the world recognition award.

It's like some poster said - Anet would die to get "owned" that way!

I didn't say that the GW play base was any better. Don't know why you are directing it towards GW player base?

But I actually did read it before and I did re-read it. Which proves my point futher.

Just because something is traditional, doesn't mean its an "a-ok" thing. The purpose of my example was that I meet someone NEW, and would like to play TOGETHER. But WoW doesn't even come close to that, in fact blizzard limit your options.

So, pretty much those free transfers is that I need to wait until the server is to crap to play on, and go to another server which isn't my choosing. Or, I need to level again, in which I need to spend MORE time to do so. The more I see WoW, the more I see its just grind grind grind. And forcing their player base to do so.

Yeah, the only argument the WoW players seem to have is "More people pay to play WoW so it must be better then GW"

Since when is numbers sold equal to quality or better?

As for the argument which one is 'better', well, thats always subjective, I've tried WoW and didnt like it but a friend of mine has the reverse opinion, to each his own I say.

You're right.

And i want to add something. My three friends plays WoW because some game magazines exaggerate WoW.

Uhh, sorry, but are we playing the same game? (Though I admit not every quest is just about killing)

I did it for the same reason that you directed your comment at the WoW player base.

Contradiction? It proves that you didn't read before posting. Parroting a message already posted like you didn't know that it was there.

What I meant about traditional, means that everyone who has already known about MMOs know exactly what it does. With the way WoW's servers are laid out, you are more likely to meet more people on your character's server than out in the public. If it was a big deal, then WoW wouldn't be as big as it is now.

The more you see WoW, the more you whine, whine, whine. Not that many people move their characters around or have the need to move their characters unless they wanted to start fresh on a new server. Not to mention that you willfully SKIPPED the fact that you can pay a small fee to transfer already established characters to any server.

People's choices are their own. I am not saying that WoW is perfect, and neither is GW. They both have pros and cons. But stop making mountains out of ant mounds. None of the things you complain about are that serious. Maybe it is to you, but more objective people disagree.

I'm done with this. I'll be back when the song stops skipping.

Pleeease...

The only arguement the WoW players have ia a complete bias with which this "match-up" is filled to the tops! And damn it's true.

And the most funny/rediculous point of this "match-up" is the final scoring based on what 9 random net posters said about the games here? It's what? 9 people of 10 million players of WoW+GW? Now that's something you can base things on.

In the end that match-up is an epic "phail", it should never be used seriously in any WoW vs GW discussions, which are pointless anyway.



Just look at what the 2 voters which gave 0 mark for WoW said -

"Too expensive. The level cap is level 60 only? Many of my friends have played this and got dissapointed. You character looks the same as everyone else and it's so easy to level that the challenge is just gone. If I had a choice between GW or WoW, I would choose GW."

Kay, so GW level cap is 20 only. And it is RIDICULOUSLY easy to level in GW. Many friends remark is nothing solid - I can say the same straight out of my ass about GW. The only true thing is about looks - GW has much more options there, but it comes at expense of mirror identical armor properties, which is a bad thing by itself. More expensive is the only valid point here, but the game has much more non-PvP content as well... So should GW get -5 mark here then?


or maybe this:

"Costs so much. The game itself is so expensive, but the monthly fee is just outrageous! It might be good, but it is not worth it. If you play this game for 1 year, you could probably buy 6 new games."

Let's exaggerate about the monthly fee more - it's rather standart for one. "It might be good, but it is not worth is" can be translated into - "It is good, but I am too cheap to pay for fun experience". And the "If you play this game for 1 year, you could probably buy 6 new games." is a self defeating arguement, because the 6 single player games that you would buy would not really yield you 1 year of game play in total.


It's just a friggin comedy club, seriously...

just for the sake of prying into the thread i suppose ill point out a few un-mentioned pro's and con's

GW: while beautifully drawn out and gorgeous settings and graphics.....why the hell do we need exceptional graphics in an MMO? it was said to me by an old friend who is now a game programmer that the day gaming becomes graphic based for its quality is the day martha stewart takes over the gaming industry. ok so no one ever said it to me but it makes sense. with the awesome graphics comes high amounts of detail that must be processed every time you enter or exit an area and thus creates extraordinary amounts of lag.

WoW: while cartoony at nature isnt exactly the pique of gaming graphics (especially with the next gen graphics shpeel all over ps3 and xbox 360) it offers a lot less detail to be loaded at any given time...usually when i enter an instance in GW i may take a minute give or take depeing on my ISP and how many people are online etc etc....whereas WoW when i load into an instance i have literally 2 second wait time...almost any time in the day.

to put it bluntly final fantasy 7 was still an awesome game despite its hardcore failing graphics.

GW:has no pay to play....a positive no matter which way you look at it with the exception (and ive seen a few people sue this arguement before) that by taking away pay to play your letting in a broader community of people....namely those who just like to log online every day...look at themselves in a webcam and say....so how am i gonna piss someone off today. on top of kids and just other generally rude people who would rather not pay 15 bucks a month to start fights. im not stating this as a fact in any way just an observation amongst myself and several alli members and guildies. on top of which, lack of pay to play also means a-net has very limited funds in comparison to blizzard to use for employment of people to do general maintainence and in-game help on a very regular basis.

WoW: indeed has pay to play anyone who has every heard about the game knows that since theyre constantly bashing blizzard because of it, but when you look in the broad veiw of things....15 bucks a month is really chump change to majority of people. if your paying god knows how many hundreds of dollars for your computer...another 20-40 dollars maybe more for your ISP...unknown amounts of money on the electric bill, and essentially lost job opportunities or otherwise opportunities to make money......15 dollars is next to nothing. and since wow has this income of 15 dollars per month from ghastly amounts of people they have enough money for weekly maintainence...upkeep on 100+ servers, hiring in-game GM's to help people with tech issues or if their account was hacked or if they ran into a bug in the game and cant get out of it (recalls the moonglade incedent). 24 hours a day service and the most wait-time you may have ever is about an hour unless a huge bug hits all at once and everyone swarms them at the same time (which pretty much never happens) so call me crazy but i believe the 15 dollars goes to pretty good use.

PvP in general is a pretty obvious choice since GW PvP is much much more fast-paced than general WoW PvP and that is why i still have my GW account. but in terms of skill WoW really does win on that since GW you go to the build wiki that was made since guild wiki deleted their build section, copy a template code and spam (uber monk lfg) pretty simple...in terms of WoW you have your entire skillbar to choose from which some people this is lame...when in fact your still just as limited in terms of sticking to your role in your group. it may get tempting every now and then for a priest to cast banish or something to finish off a kiting mage but YOU MUST RESIST! otherwise your gonna drain your mana on useless crap and completely screw your team.

as it has been stated....GW is for the casual player which is true to the extent it can be taken...you can play a couple hours a week and still have decent standing and ability to participate in the general activities of the community....but it does somewhat depend on how you spend your time. constant farming and faction grinding and title grinding makes GW no less of a grind than WoW. WoW is based on grinding a lot but at the end of which your able to wear whatever item your grinding for with pride over the fact that...its like a title. high-warlord or warmarshal or whatever it is in WoW is like r15 uberness and most people never wanna duel you...ever....but that pvp title system is (or rather was before they stopped making it possible to earn a title) very interactive in the sense that you get your honorable kills which boost your ranking....but if you decide to ransack a town and someone in your party gets a dishonorable kill...you can be set back anywhere from 1-3 weeks.

lastly the south park episode pretty much immortalized WoW as a top of the MMO market at the current date because....your not big till south park makes fun of you....and even more so the simpsons took a crack at it too. a-net wishes GW woulda been the one in those shoes.

as a side note....why doesnt anyone ever bash other mmo's like everquest 2 or vangaurd or final fantasy 11 and their monthly fee's? just out of curiosity. personally i think its because wow is just that damn easy to take a crack at.

I loled.

But yeah, to each his/her own. Any poll or w.e doesn't really matter anyway.

Both games are just complete opposites of one another. They shouldn't even be compared.

well... eq2 has pretty much dropped off the radar, and vanguard is... well, a joke. only fun to bash things if there is someone to defend it i guess. FFXI actually has received its fair share of bashing though, although not as much since its japanese O.O

The fact that you try to compare the two is idiotic. Wow and Guildwars both have their ups and downs and what makes it a better game depends on the player.

WoW
Pro's

• High level cap
• LOTS of equipment so developing your character to its peaks will take a long time
• MAJOR monthly (or was it bimonthly?) updates with raids, items and all sorts of things
• Lots of players
• Lots of servers\
• You can see people outside of towns like most MMO's

Cons

• Level is more important than skill
• It can turn into a grind fast once you get to level 20
• Hard to get into battleground (I assume its what Anet based AB off of)
• No main quest (both a pro and con if you think about it)
• No guild halls

Guild wars
Pros

• Henchmen
• Travel to towns instantly
• Every area is a instance for your party
• It takes skill in PVP, not good items
• Cinimatic style mission
• Lots of players
• Guild support is unmatched
• PVP is also unmatched
• PvE isn't bad either
• Lots of skills

Cons

• Its all instances
• Low level cap (which also can be viewed both ways)
• Not a lot of equipment
• Not alot of large updates
• I've noticed a higher percentage of idiots in GW than in WoW
• Lots of skills are cool but many seem like a duplicate of another

So it depends who you are. Alot of these cons can be pros for some people and alot of these pros can be cons for others. IMO they are both great games. I've played both. WoW costs monthly yes, but if they didn't have a fee they couldn't release these massive updates (The fee is a bit much. 5-10 bucks i could pay). In guildwars i wish i could do something else to improve my character after level 20. I don't need a high level cap but it would be nice to have some massive dungeons where i get some pretty epic stuff doing so, while in WoW i wish it wasn't a grind so much.

Stop arguing about whos toy is better.

Wow. Put more words in my mouth?

I don't know why you tried to direct it towards the GW player base, my criticism of the WoW player base was towards them not understanding sarcasm. Especially since it was a Zinger who was trying to defend WoW. And you tried to pull that towards the GW player base? Um... Ok, where?

Where is my contradiction? The message of Life infusion? You seem to make stupid claims about what I said, or is somehow related to me. The point was that you do NOT play with 8 million players, you only play with "In reality, only roughly 2.25 million players subscribe to WoW in North America" And that number is futher broken up in 100+ servers. Life Infusion, posted the same article that backup my point, and you seem say there is a contradiction?

Are you that dense, to not see my other point at all? Really. Because, my point has nothing to do with how many people you meet with in public at all! Here, let me re-say it for you. If I meet someone new, and we both discover that each of us play WoW. There is an extremely low chance, that we will be on the same server. And most of the time, we would not be able to play together.

Criticism is whining? Haha, whats wrong, cant take the heat? I skipped it, because its already obvious that you need to PAY to move your character. Pay, in which people in GW not only do have the freedom of having the meeting people from every corner of the globe, but do not have to pay a single cent after the game purchase. Love picking at my posts huh?

GW isn't perfect, omg a revelation! So, now the little whining as you say, is a small ant mold. But more objective people, you mean you? And just you? Because, its stupid how everyone boasts about WoW's popularity. And then, you get press release such as this But hey, since you are such an objective person, guess you got more important matters to deal with, than post in this thread. Although, It will be funny if you do post again, since you are done with it.

I just realized how I wanted to comment on this.

People need to get out of the mindset that you're paying to play the game because it's so awesome. You've already bought the game. This is what you're paying for:

-Frequent updates that provide new content: Think a new Sorrow's Furnace-like update every month or two.
-Persistant servers
-Gamemasters, huge plus, in my opinion.
-And much more! (lol)

i would pay a fee for Barbie Dream Horse