Female Armor: Please leave SOMETHING to the imagination.

Sorry you fail, i don't fit into any of those so called categories. and i'm NOT complaining im SUGGESTING and SUPPORTING the viewpoints of someone who want nothing more than a little variety/choice in the way their chars look. Now stop talking down to me you little snot and try to understand what is being said not what you would like to hear.

Not ONCE have i said that i find it inapropriate stop trying to put words into my mouth. I've more than aptly explained my viewpoint on this issue, you don't understand it? fine. TROLLING? COMPLAIN? youre the one insulting people here and now you have the nerve to complain about my so called complaining *which you've pretty much made up.

Get a grip friend. you are coming across as a Grade A Ass.

There is a problem with one side of this discussion.
They claim the want more 'variety' but there is already such variety.

From this:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necro..._Fanatic_armor

To this:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necro..._Pattern_armor

All profession have variety inside their own fixed style.
That style is there so professions can be quickly and easily recognized in PvP.
You can't have an elementalist dress like a dervish.

You are forgetting about the fact that half naked girls are one of the most common elements of video games... It is what draws teenage boys who have no life to these games in the 1st place! (might get flamed for this one) But it's true! I even read about that in one of those articles that dissect people's psychology.


If you want to change something in the video games, how about you look right under your nose first? Come outside... See how girls dress these days! At least half of them look like s*uts and ho's. If you want more of this, look at some of those sites like myspace.com (one big ho-fest). That's just the way our society is right now, and what's worse no one gives a damn. That's ok. I stopped reacting to these things. As one wise king said, "Everything passes, and this will pass..."

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE NAKED GIRLS! However, as you say, girls need to leave something to the imagination. When a girl shows me EVERYTHING right away, she's really only good for a one night stand. Definitely not girlfriend material.

I'm glad you're not like "the rest". I'm glad you're a "decent" girl that realizes there's something wrong with this picture. Well... What can I say...
Can you be my girlfriend? (jk) I'm looking for someone like you, but I just cannot find a single "decent" girl in a sea of s*uts and ho's.....


PS: If you ask me, Jora is not even all that "indecent". If you do a google search for female characters in video games, you will see much "worse". There's an online book called "girls of video gaming" or something like that. Check it out, and then tell me something about "leaving something for the imagination".

When was the last time you saw an angel?

They also seem to be big on "fashion". In Istan the fashion is strips of cloth bras, whereas in Cantha the fashion is knee length dresses.

Mithran,

Could you please tell me exactly HOW other players would be bothered by the Tyrian armour set being made available at Istani armourcrafters? We've already had testimony from people saying that this has negatively affected their enjoyment in the game - how does introducing a choice (which, from ANet's part, probably requires no more effort than changing a few switches on the crafter NPCs) negatively affect the rest of the playerbase?

Seriously, I'd really like to know just what the basis of your disagreement actually is. Because at the moment, to be bluntly honest, I'm not seeing anything more than an unjustified kneejerk reaction.

lol... this thread is ridiculous, people complaining for the sake of complaining...

there's options for everyone in this game. for people who like scantily clad armor and for people who like heavy duty armor.
don't chastise the rest of us for our own preferences jus because you have a problem with one particular armor. quick fix. DONT CRAFT IT. omg how easy is that!?

go get female elementalist ancient armor or something, and build a bridge....

We have no problem with your preferences, Lyonette. We just want people who have different preferences to be accomodated as well.

ummm why is everyone posting these thread now? lots of skanky armor has been in the game for over a year and a half yet no people were bitching about it then...

Since when did everyone turn into a Carebear?

It has only negatively effected them because they let it.

That can be used as a stock response to a lot of things. Ugly armour or weapon? Only bothers you because you let it. Elite form of a standard armour missing, like, for instance, Knight's/Templar's? Only bothers you if you let it. Walking around naked in the street? Okay, you might get arrested for indecent exposure, but apart from that it only bothers you if you let it - and the risk of being arrested for indecent exposure only arises due to other people who were only bothered if you let it.

I'm sure, if I searched through your posts, I could find something that you've supported where I could throw that line back at you. And if I couldn't... well, that may suggest something entirely different.

I return to my earlier question. Can you tell me how adding already existing armour sets to Istani armour crafters as an additional choice negatively affects you?

It adds an element to a campaign that should not be there. Those armours belong to the Prophecies and Factions campaigns.

Frankly, since this whole thread was started based on opinion and not fact, my previous statement hold a very large amount of truth.

And that's your opinion - and there's no material way that it negatively affects you. You're going to see Prophecies and Factions sets in Nightfall anyway - from characters that have come in from those campaigns, even if in the case of Istan they may just be there for titles - so how does it affect you?

Stop changing the topic.

First "Add more of that kind"
They tell them there are already of that kind. Plenty of them. You can see the armor galleries.

Then other say: "No, I meant change the ones already add or add filters to them" because you think they are indecent or some nonsense like that.
They tell you that they will never modify older armors like that. Maybe skin improvements and such to add shaders and things like that, but without altering the model. And that you have texmod if you want to change something for yourself only.

Now "No, I mean make those of the kind I can stand to see available everywhere".
Well, this is the first thing that could be possible. But yours is the first post that I read with that variation. In this case NO. If you want Tyrian armos, you buy Factions or Prophecies. This is how content works in Guild Wars. To have access to something, you pay.

In more of 18 months of gameplay I may have seen 3 idiots making me those stupid moves, but look at the armors I was wearing:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necro..._Fanatic_armor
This:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Monk_Shing_Jea_armor
And this armor:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist_Imperial_armor
So don't tell me that 'so called' stripper armors of yours are the ones causing those idiots to bother players with female models.
It's not what your character wear, it's the stupidity of those players. And you can't change stupidity in humans. The best example is some 'people' complaining about a bunch of pixels, claiming there should be more 'conservative' pixels. Geez.

You can already change your armor. If you don't do that an keep whining about current armors, is because you are bothered by armors of others, not yours.

End of story already.

I'm not changing the topic. I think it's an important part of the topic.

We've given reasons why it would benefit some people. If something benefits some people and doesn't harm others, why shouldn't it be done?

I think you missed the part where you asked them to give people armour that others have PAID REAL MONEY to access.

You know, I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the basic sets from Prophecies are available to everyone as PvP armour. And for the record, I have all three campaigns (collector's in one case) and I certainly didn't buy any of the campaigns for a single - or even, splitting it among all Core classes and both genders, a dozen sets of basic armour, which are among the plainest sets of armour in the game.

Still, you've at least given an answer to the question I was asking, for which I thank you. I don't think it's that big a deal to begrudge some of the plainest armour sets in the game to starting players when that could mean that they remain in the game - and, y'know, maybe then spend more real money themselves buying new campaigns, when otherwise maybe they'd have quit (maybe that makes them thinskinned, but as long as they're not so prudish as to demand that all scanty armours be removed, they aren't hurting anyone). Maybe one day it'll mean the difference between having a monk that responds to the LFM call in a mission lobby and not.

For the record, this particular issue doesn't actually directly affect me at all. I have, as previously mentioned, all three campaigns, and I've chosen genders and campaigns for the various professions so they all have outfits I can at the very least live with. While I've discussed the issue of children earlier in the thread, I don't have any to worry about myself, and probably wouldn't be bothered by what they might see in the game if they did. But that doesn't stop me from championing something that would improve the game for others - and one of those others may turn out to be the player of a character that pulls my character's proverbial fat out of the fire during some mission.

PvP armour is hardly an issue. You can't take a PvP character outside of the Battle Isles (except FA & JQ). The point of armour has always been to show off. There are very few places that you can do that on a PvP character (even fewer where anyone will care).

Basically, you can't compare a PvE aspect to something a PvP character can do.

Actually, my understanding is that the tournament points system allows you to do exactly that - acquire new skins for PvP in order to show off.

Still... consider Factions. For the purpose of the comparison, let's take the hypothesis that level design, armour design, monster design, skill balancing and story all take equal amounts of work (almost certainly false, but if anything I'd say armour design is at the bottom of the pile). So armour design is at 20% of the cost.

Each profession has 10 armour sets in Factions - Assassins and Ritualists have 12. Ignoring Assassins and Ritualists entirely, and also ignoring that the Factions elite armours probably take more effort to make than the plain Prophecies armour, you're looking at the proportionate cost of one set of armour per class as being 2% of the cost of Factions - so, maybe around the $1US mark. People save more than that by picking up the game during a sale.

To be honest, I hadn't anticipated your response simply because I honestly hadn't considered it to be an issue. But that's why I asked the question... to find out what the issues were. The explanations I'd thought of as to how it impacts other people are:

#1) ArenaNet's time that could be spent on other projects. This is why I've been suggesting adding an existing armour rather than making a new one. If they were to make a new one instead the next time they decide to make a new set of armours, that'd be perfectly fine by me. (For the record, I estimate the total time required to add an existing set of armour to a new set of traders to be less than two and a half hours from one person. Let me know if you want me to show working.)

#2) Ingame economy (okay, I didn't really expect anyone to admit to this, but it is something I saw as a possible ulterior motive). Having people who feel they're being forced to purchase elite armour (for whatever reason) does have some knockon effects - it pushes up the value of gold, it pushes up the value of exotic materials for those armour sets, and it increases demand for runs to the armour location. It's a cynical explanation, I know, but short of #3 it's the biggest influence I can think of that adding another option at the low-end would have to players who didn't choose to make use of that option.

#3) We will not speak of #3.

Gotta love how the OP abandons this thread when more and more people disagree with her, lol.

Where in any of my posts did I say you specifically fit into that category? Was my first response in this thread directed towards you? Any subsequent responses likely were, only because you took offense at my first. You are not the OP...I was making a response towards the OP. IF she fits into those categories, that's her problem. Not yours. If you feel so offended by my posts, then perhaps you DO fall into one of those categories.

When I gave the "possible new character classes" I in no way implied that I was referring specifically to you. I was poking fun at reality, which this game is obviously not supposed to replicate. If you want modesty, play the Sims.

Your insults were understated in the way you presented anyone not agreeing with you as falling under one of the many denigrating categories you described.

You defend yourself saying it was directed agaist the OP and if I have a problem with that then its directed at me too?

Insofar you sole aim on this thread has been to underhandedly treat people who only want more options in armour choice (for various different reasons) as either fat, ignorant, neglecting, whiney, or just plain stupid.

You want to feel clever and treat people like shit on a game forum while walking as close to the ban line as possible thats your problem, don't delude yourself for one second that your true charming troll like personality isnt shining through though.

I wasn't aware that guild wars is a family game or aspiring to be an ideal family enviroment.

Exactly, which is why it is rated "T" for teen, not "E" for everyone.

I see a lot of people talk about accommodating all players, and I just would like to say:

IT'S NOT THEIR JOB!

Yes, some are offended that just about every female ranger and paragon armor shows a midsection. That amount, however, is insignificant to the tons of teen/tween gamers that Anet and others aim for. It's about demographics. They are a business. If they spend their time re-skinning armors every time someone farts, they neglect(even more) areas that need attention, like pvp and pve gameplay, skill balancing and GW2 development. It's not like they have a hundred-man graphics design department on-call to mod that armor for you. If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. Just ask the Democrats.

The last time I checked, this was a fantasy game tailored to teens. Yes, teen males, though there are a lot more women I see playing this game than other games. Their idea of fantasy is not an Afghan woman in a Burkha.

As someone said, if you want character realism, get The Sims or Second Life. Heck, the chars in EQ2 would fit your sensibilities better. You can complain. It's your right, and that's what forums are for. I just think that in this case if you are complaining about this, you might be in the wrong game.

I have this thing I like to call a life. You must know of it? Going to movies, hanging with friends? Anyways! My apologizes for not being on Guru 24/7 to rebuttal all the nay-sayers who are basically just agreeing with eachother or completely reiterating one another.

As for your quote...I have not abandon this thread. I do the occassional check to get a good chuckle, but I see that the thread is carrying on nicely without me having to repost my feelings, views, or anything else.

People are always going to disagree, it's a fact of life...*yadda yadda* I started this thread with my opinion and others have answered me with their two cents. I applaud all those who believe deep within their minds that they are the only ones correct, but in the end their posts are viewed by me as nothing more than other opinions.

"Insecurities"...classic. I like the personal attacks since they describe me so well, but wait! What is this? I'm not a couch potato or a mother with thunderthighs and cankles? D*mn! You're wrong? Instead I'm a 19 year old female with an Air Force husband living in a new state while my husband is off playing war. So I like to pass the time by doing yoga, kick boxing, and playing Guild Wars. Sorry, I do not eat sweets...I hate soda...and drink nothing but water. Guess what? I'm in great health! "nutritional therapist" Silly! I'm going to college to be a Physical Therapist. How could you not know that? Oh that's right! Because you don't know me. Oh but do keep up the attacks...I find them hysterical and they brighten up my day.

To others...don't care about midsection I just don't care for the side-boobs (here I go again reiterating myself). Yes! Congrats there are other options but most of those options are not "pretty" nor are many what I would call affordable. If the slutty armor can have "pretty" material then so should an affordable less slutty alternative. You have issues with this I'm guessing? Yes? Why shouldn't you? I mean here I am practically forcing you to wear nothing but modest armor...oh, but no I'm not. I'm asking that alternatives be added...hell! I'll even purchase a freaking upgrade called "Nun armor & More Alternatives" (if Anet would ever do such a thing) that way I can get my modest armor and all the nay-sayers in this thread wouldn't have to purchase the upgrade thus you wouldn't be affected. Sound good? Probably not because someone is going to continue with "The human body is beautiful". Okay, so an obese woman in a thong bikini is going to be "Beautiful"? I'd say not. The human bodies on Guild Wars are beautiful. "You're attacking Anets Artwork"...if I were attacking it I would be critizing their armor in a more violent way instead of simply asking for other options...do you see anywhere on here where I am demanding that all "crude" armor be removed? I think not.

You have another error to point out in my suggestion? More than likely. I'm sure anyone can think of several errors with my request...allow me to type some.

1. Anet doesn't have the time to work on this...they have GWEN and GW2 to worry about
2. It's just a freaking game! Stop being so insecure. (This is a classic)
3. There are alternatives...deal with those!
4. OMG! I LIKE BOOBIES! KEEP THE BOOBIES!

Still not satisfied? Then by all means continue...you're more than welcome to.

I do want to give a special thanks to those who have been extremely active in this thread. A few that come to mind are Curse You, Sleeper Service, The Lurch, MithranArkanere, and draxynnic. Thank you for keeping the thread rolling.

Wrong, I've looked through every armor on the game, and a part from paragon, All proffessions have some decent modest, and good looking armors. And 15K isn't too pricey.

Examples:

Warrior - 1K Templar (Otherwise known as knights armor) IMO is one of best Female warrior armors in the game.

Ranger - Kurzick, a bit more than most 1K armors in price, but I think it's better than the 15K version, also Elite Canthan is wonderful.

Monk - Well, onks have a lot of good one if you look at them, Canthan, Elite Sunspear, Elite Kurzick, Censors armor

Necromancer - 1K Fanatics is one of the best I've seen for female Necros.

Mesmer - Mesmer outfit awesomeness speaks for itself.

Elementalist - Tyrian, Elite Canthan, Flameforged, Anicent. Anyone who says eles have bad modest options are just plain wrong.

Assassins - Remember that any skimpyness on female sins is reasonable due to their need for flexablity, but even so, Kurzick, Vabbi, Elite Imperial, Shing Jea, and Anicent are all well covering.

Rt - Anicent, Cathan, Imperial.

Dervish - All of them but Vabbi.


There, some examples for nearly all proffessions for good, cheap, modest armors options. Naturally they are all in my opinion, but if your still not happy about your options, I just think your being a bit too picky.

That the modest armors aren't pretty is a subjective opinion, and as that doesn't warrant a change imho. Personally, even though I might not like the style of some armors, I think that all of them look good.

I could just as well argue that the ''sexi'' armors aren't pretty enough, or that there isn't enough of them (just look at the poor dervishes, with one exception, their armor shows almost no skin) and we need more of those instead.

This is a goddam game not a job interview, dress however u want dont make it worse for other player. ill be good if they make more amors that look like little christian girls. but dont change thea one that we allready have

Actually, in my opinion, skimpiness on assassins is actually the silliest of the lot. The last thing you want when skulking around in the shadows is a flash of pale skin...

Pretender, I think my dissing the assassins above is the closest anything on our side has come to suggesting changing any existing armour. It's the naysayers who keep putting those words in our mouths.

you say that
but think of this for the warrior
Dragon/wyvern , 1k templar/knights , platemail(and 15k) , charr(and 15k) , kurzick(and 15k) , canthan(and 15k version) , sunspear(and 15k version) , ancient , obsidian and primevil thats pretty much every single armor set there is for warrior about the only armor sets you could complain for warrior are Gladiator which is obvius because gladiators only have part armor coverage as they aint knights.

Now Assasin Thats Obvius Cuse An Assasin Has To Be Quick So They Wouldnt Wear Loads Of Clothing!.

Mesmers Aint Really That Bad They Tend To Wear Dresses So What.

Dervish pretty much nothin to complain bout 1armor set which you could slightly complain about.

Necromancers Aint Very Bad Unless You Count Tattoss But Why Should Females Not Have Tattoo Armor If Males Do.

Monks Pretty Much Same As Necros Not That Bad Only Tats Armor But Males Have Tats Too.

Rangers Theres Only About 5armor sets you could complain About.

Elementalists You Could Probly Complain About That But Really Alot Of Armor Sets Just Show Legs.

Paragons Well The Males Look Like It Too So Females paras would not look rite if they had armor nothing like males.

And TBH for people who dont agree with the armor that your complaining about theres almost always a set that doesnt show anything for each prof

There is only two ways u can prevent it Dervish Gnome!

Either buy only non-revealing armors .....or join a monastery!!!

*I did not read all 12 pages of this thread just the first few posts...*

Unfortunantly this one is a lost cause, they do not feel there is anything wrong with the visuals they have made. For example, I had a character name banned for the word "boobies" in it because I assumed if they had hooker outfits for every single female armor set the word "boobies" would not violate the "character name" clause in the user agreement. I used their own content as a judge for what was acceptable and what was not. That was rather silly of me it turned out.

When I posed this point to them, they did not feel there was anything at all wrong with the visual content they have provided but still felt my name would make, in their words, users "uncomfortable" and had to rename the character. My wife-to-be wont even play anymore after the Nightfall Elementalist armors came out. Rather hypocritical if you ask me, not sure how a word like boobies outdoes Jora's "whole package" being on display but...

End Result: Most gamers are 14-18 year old males, and sex sells (ANet developers stopped JUST SHORT of that sentence in an interview I read not too long ago). Thats really what is at work, not morals or a desire to make all users comfortable. The female gamer is not important to ANet when content is generated, because male gamers are the significant demographic and that is who they want to attract. Not saying its fair, but it is how it is (I wish it wasnt so I could get my fiance to beat Prophesies finally). Until women outnumber men in GW, you will see nothing but thongs, underwear and anti-gravity bras in GW.

Look at it this way (and I'm sorry if someone has already mentioned it, I don't have the time right now to read the 12+ pages): Women are more flexible and agile, and benefit from having less bulk in armor so they can dodge and make what would be a square hit into a glancing blow. Meanwhile, men are heavier and would better just stand in place and let the armor absorb some of the blow.

of course, we all know that the real reason is sales. so there will always be a lot of skimpy female armor, even if anet decides to add a few concealing ones to please the "concerned female gamers".

No offence, but that's where I draw the line between having an opinion, and just overreacting.

Please explain that response.

Those NF outfits literally make the characters look like harem girls, you know, sex-slaves of times past. She thinks its inappropriate and does not want to have to see it every times she goes into LA. It dosnt bother me seeing them, but I can definantly see how she does not like it enough to just play another game.

And I suppose magic that defies God, armies of demons and undead, and rampant piracy, murder, and corruption don't bother her?

Ok, I'll admit I haven't read all of the posts but a few points.

1. I quite often see posts claiming that most gamers are teenage males, this isn't, and never has been, proven in any surveys.

Here's a few links:

http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gamer_data.php
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h..._uk/html/3.stm

I could find more, (and more up to date) if I honed the search a bit, but I'm supposed to be working.

2. Another erroneous view is that few women play games (see above links).
If anything, MMO style games tend to appeal more to women / girls than your average FPS because of the social networking aspect of the genre.

3. All the armours are skimpy or exploitative.

I'd say it's a fairly even spread when it comes to armours. Sure, there's the skimpier efforts such as Vabbi or Elite Sunspear - taking elementalist as an example) , but to balance off that you have Elite Canthan, Flameforged, Ancient. There is a choice. The same can probably be said of pretty much all the professions.

Here are my girls. They have a mixture of armours, my ele has both skimpy and modest sets, I can choose what to put on her. I'd hate to not have that choice.

Sorry, but I disagree entirely on this. I don't consider any of the armours my toons are wearing to be ugly (though I will concede this is a matter of personal taste) , and as for affordable.... I never farm, yet I've managed to get 15K or combinations including it, for almost all of my girls, just by playing through the game. It can be done.

Oh and btw, I am neither male, nor 14. I'm a 39 yr old female gamer and I have no problem with Arena.net's marketing tactics or the amount of armour choices in the game.

Ahem.
By saying that, you say that anyone dressing in a way that makes your wife-to-be envious is a meretrix?

Harem girls dressed like that because of FASHION, FA-SHI-ON. Not because they were harem girls. Bautifull and rich girls dressed like that. And Harem girls were dressed as Rich beautifull girls.
"It is not the cowl that makes the monk"
Since you THINK on that kind of things, you THINK that they dress as 'harem-girls'. It's all in your mind, your perverted, repressed mind. People just choose the armor they like most, buy it an play. Nothing else.

Stop already with the overreacting and the nonsense.
What's your next plan? Going with a baseball bat menacing girls on the beach dressing bikinis? Ohhh! Evil tiny pieces of cloth!

Geez.

Thats storytelling.

Good point Sister drinking you forgot as well i think those are more offensive then tight skirt or seethrough one please you can find lots of things wrong with any Rpg game and last time i read Creators of the game specificaly sad they WANT their Characters to look SEXY