Paragon/PvE Skills Nerfed again - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 02:50 - 1

Seed of life -- now causes nothing worth anything to happen for -1 to -5 seconds, uses your energy for nothing and recharges sometime next week

QUIT PUTTING RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING SKILLS IN THE GAME THEN 2 WEEKS LATER RENDERING THEM USELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO BE THAT "POWERFUL" THEN DON'T MAKE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE ASS HOLES!!

Edit:

It has nothing to do with my ability BTW, EOTN so far is very easy...but the skill was overpowered when they made it and it was no secret that it was overpowered, so stop making skills just to be nerfed, it is a pain in the ass to have to change templates and stuff all the time. I do not disagree that it was overpowered.

Mod Edit.....Added update notes

Quote:

Playbalance Changes

As is expected with any unfinished content shown in a preview, many aspects of playbalance within Guild Wars: Eye of the North have been adjusted since the Eye of the North Sneak Peek event. For existing live content, only the two following skill changes have been made:

Monk

* Seed of Life: reduced duration to 1..5 seconds; increased recharge time to 25 seconds.

Paragon

* "There's Nothing to Fear!": increased the recharge time to 20 seconds.

Bug Fixes

* Fixed a bug that caused Health Bars to stick out over the edge of the Party panel when it was sized too small.

Guild Wars In-Game Store Updates

* Once a Guild Wars account is linked to a PlayNC master account, it uses the currency of the country registered at the time the PlayNC master account is created. If the Guild Wars account is not linked to a PlayNC account, it will use the current IP to determine the currency type displayed.

SaucE

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

OgreSlayingKnife.com

[MEEP] Biscuit of Dewm

N/

31 Aug 2007 at 02:51 - 2

QQ me a river. It was over powered.

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

31 Aug 2007 at 02:52 - 3

Well that kinda blows. :/

Can't say I didn't see it coming though. Wonder if any of the "powerful PvE only" skills will even be worth using soon. >.<

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

31 Aug 2007 at 02:56 - 4

Does this seriously mean I can now only make everyones health bars top up and not have to do anything at all and get away with being a terrible monk for less time now.

Oh noes!

Nerf Save Yourselves too.

Brianna

Insane & Inhumane

Join Date: Feb 2006

31 Aug 2007 at 03:00 - 5

Well, the skill IS useless now, when you really think about it.

This is PvE anyway..

Another Junk skill to throw in my trashcan, Just like intensity, seriously useless.

Izzy puts PvE only spells into the game but completely rapes them with nerfs, to the point where no one wants them.

CyberMesh0

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Charter Vanguard [CV]

N/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:02 - 6

well they nerfed "there's nothing to fear!", maybe that's enough of a bat to keep save yourselves alive.

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

31 Aug 2007 at 03:08 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberMesh0

well they nerfed "there's nothing to fear!", maybe that's enough of a bat to keep save yourselves alive.

Bleh, maybe - TNTF pretty much means you'd need to have it on more than just a primary paragon, totally worth doing.

I still think Seed of Life is good considering the amount of times one person can get hit in 6 seconds it's enough to make party bars shoot up. But a skill like it isn't good for the game anyway because the whole idea of it was just too good.

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

31 Aug 2007 at 03:10 - 8

typical Izzy double nerf: reduced duration + longer recharge

Seed of Life: say "hi" to Verrata's Sacrifice on the graveyard of overnerfed skills

Phantom Gun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Minion Bombing in Elona

The Drunken Dragons [DRNK]

Rt/N

31 Aug 2007 at 03:12 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

Well that kinda blows. :/

Can't say I didn't see it coming though. Wonder if any of the "powerful PvE only" skills will even be worth using soon. >.<

Most likely not since players either:

1: Feel like they need to impact the game some how for personal satisfaction, or fame.

2: They find the game to easy, so they want to nerf skills to make it more challenging. However they don't consider that players may have different skill levels due to age, or mental and physical ability.

3: Some people can't understand a profession, or just flat out don't want to try to, so when they get owned by somebody of that profession, they try to get it nerfed anyway they can.

4. Just pure hate, it doesn't matter if they understand it or not, they want to nerf it anyway. You can also call them assholes.

Anyway although some of the new pve skills aren't really dedicated to a profession, I hope they keep these things in mind, among other things.

Chestnut

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:13 - 10

NERFS SUCK.... Make it ATLEAST 7 seconds so we can get 10 seconds or close to it with 20% longer enchants....

RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....
.... ... ~6 to 7 seconds droped off this skill? whast the point of EVEN USING IT NOW?!

why did I SPEND like 20 HOURS getting the Sunspear points?!
.. starts at 1 SECONDS? 1 second? This makes it TOTALY USELESS to anyone who has less then level 10 sunspear.. and even WITH level 10 sunspear its uselesssssss!! ...

hiss.

..

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:18 - 11

The OP forgot to mention the "There's Nothing To Fear" nerf...which is quite funny, IMO.

Chance of Paragon getting into PUg in GW:EN: 0%.

Incandecree

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Archons of Elona

Mo/

31 Aug 2007 at 03:25 - 12

They did a skill balance 3 days before Nightfall's release. Since many had already got their product and installed the keys before that ArenaNet had got their money. Now on the eve of Eye of the North they do another skill balance. This time after the initial frenzy of opening the online store for orders. Seems to be a trend.

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:31 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaucE

QQ me a river. It was over powered.

Yeah. The wammos all screamed in PVP about being owned by it. Oh wait...

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

31 Aug 2007 at 03:34 - 14

I don't disagree that Seed of Life was very strong... perhaps even too strong. But again (as was seen with soul reaping change, intensity, and many other skills) they can't seem to figure out how to adjust properly. Hmm, something is working really well? Let's make it so no one uses it! Anet thinks in extremes. TNTF was even more disappointing. That skill got me excited about playing a paragon again. After countless, nerfs, and they are true nerfs, not balances, I have lost interest in playing a paragon.

I don't understand their desire to so severly hammer pve only skills. It is a problem, even in PvE when people seem to not be able to live without a skill, but honestly this is pve. It seems like the only thing they are trying to prove is that they don't just nerf skills because of PvP. Good job, you showed us.

Shadis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

31 Aug 2007 at 03:35 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Yeah. The wammos all screamed in PVP about being owned by it. Oh wait...

I love this line of thinking. "It's PVE ONLY SO IT'S MEANT TO BE BROKEN!"

No, it's not. I'm glad they nerfed it. Monks didn't need anymore help finding groups anyway. "There's Nothing to Fear!" nerf was justified as well. Paragons were already good, despite mass whining, this being easily spammable and coupled with "Save Yourselves!" was practically God-Mode in any area.

They are still good skills, they just might take some thought to use now! Oh noes!

erfweiss

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Cold Black Eyes

W/A

31 Aug 2007 at 03:37 - 16

It kind of didn't surprise me that TNTF was nerfed. At 12 Leadership, it ran indefinitely. Oh well, I'll keep at it, trying to find a new way to plug the holes.

Edit: My primary char is a Paragon.

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:38 - 17

Here's some thought for you: Enchantment removers. Oh noes! I'd play the "Who's the smartest and right?" game with you, but I hate easy games.

They nerf ally AI to that of literally standing around and doing nothing, they increase enemy AI to that of a challenge, our so called "elite PVE only" skills get nerfed to that similar to the dead PVX skills, and people are STILL looking forward to the PVE only skills in GWEN? Don't get your hopes up.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

31 Aug 2007 at 03:39 - 18

Honestly, mobs have imba skills, why shouldn't we. If you think the game too easy, dont' equip them. Well, time to send seed of life to the graveyard with Intensity. Over nerfing a pve skills is pointless to game balance, just adds them to pile of useless skills.

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

31 Aug 2007 at 03:40 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

I love this line of thinking. "It's PVE ONLY SO IT'S MEANT TO BE BROKEN!"

On the other hand they introduce consumable crafter with pve godmode items..

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

31 Aug 2007 at 03:43 - 20

Seed of life is still fine, yknow. It's a 6ish second long timeout for the whole party so the monk can get up and grab a drink. If you're that worried about keeping it up 24/7, bring glyph of renewal.

As for TNTF, the nerf hits things like ele mind blasters who used it hard, but isn't a huge deal for paragons. It still stays up 50% of the time for some massive damage reduction. To be honest, it's about the most imbalanced thing in PvE even now. TNTF + they're on fire + save yourselves = god mode.

Nomme Moon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

31 Aug 2007 at 03:44 - 21

As a monk that used the skill, I have to say <3 much love to you, Izzy.

Point of PvE skills = ?

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

31 Aug 2007 at 03:49 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

I love this line of thinking. "It's PVE ONLY SO IT'S MEANT TO BE BROKEN!"

No, it's not. I'm glad they nerfed it.

Yeah but there are so many overpowered skills in PVE that it's an exercise in ironic redundancy to start balancing just one or two.

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:52 - 23

[skill]Healing Seed[/skill] is now waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better. Stick with that instead and you'll be fine.

ANet does need to stop swinging the Nerf Bat so hard with PvE skills, though... I mean, PvP I can understand. But PvE? Who are we hurting?

The monsters?

Oh, boo hoo.

Simath

haha you're dumb

Join Date: Jul 2005

Moscow

31 Aug 2007 at 03:53 - 24

Oh noes! We can no longer use overpowered skills and we are now forced to actually think. Honestly, it's not like the game is unplayable now that these skills are no longer as effective as they once were. So Seed of Life's duration has been reduced and its recharge increased. Monks managed before it was ever part of the game and they will manage after. As for TNTF you now have to wait an additional 10 seconds. Big deal. Chain it if it means that much to your success.

Like I said above we managed before these skills were introduced to the game and we will manage after. Get over it.

Phantom Gun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Minion Bombing in Elona

The Drunken Dragons [DRNK]

Rt/N

31 Aug 2007 at 03:53 - 25

Balanced PVE? Can somebody explain to me where the balance is? I really don't see it. I mean there are bosses out there that can practicaly 1 hit wipe a party unless you have high hp, or a good party set up. Also if the 2 monk, nuker, MM, and tank mentality is the good set up, then why even have the other professions?

Seriously either this game's pve is lacking acceptable diversity, or the idea of balance in pve is way off. If any balance is needed at all it's to make the underdog professions more wanted in a pve enviroment, such as the mesmer, rit, or paragon.

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

31 Aug 2007 at 03:54 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

The OP forgot to mention the "There's Nothing To Fear" nerf...which is quite funny, IMO.

Chance of Paragon getting into PUg in GW:EN: 0%.

I know what you mean. They could have changed it so it lasted 4 seconds long and 1 second longer for every point of Leadership. That way, only a Leadership headpiece and a Superior Leadership rune would get you constant coverage.

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 03:55 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Yeah. The wammos all screamed in PVP about being owned by it. Oh wait...

Quoted for the light of truth of a thousand suns.

Shadis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

31 Aug 2007 at 03:58 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Balanced PVE? Can somebody explain to me where the balance is? I really don't see it. I mean there are bosses out there that can practicaly 1 hit wipe a party unless you have high hp, or a good party set up. Also if the 2 monk, nuker, MM, and tank mentality is the good set up, then why even have the other professions?

Seriously either this game's pve is lacking acceptable diversity, or the idea of balance in pve is way off. If any balance is needed at all it's to make the underdog professions more wanted in a pve enviroment, such as the mesmer, rit, or paragon.

Balance in PvE exists, believe it or not. It's meant to keep it from becoming a C-Space Marathon where there is zero fear of dying. Seed of Life and "There's Nothing to Fear!" in their pre-nerf forms were exactly that - You had those skills and you did not die. Ever. Used correctly they are still powerful skills. I understand some people just love to steamroll everything to get phat lewt, but there is a such thing as PvE Balance.

KamikazeChicken

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

31 Aug 2007 at 04:02 - 29

Seed of life wasn't something I would consider overpowered. AI tends to focus on one or two targets at a time, so the additional healing wasn't all that great, unless people were standing in AoE. As a PvE-only skill, it was a Healing Seed with reduced cast time and "better" additional healing. Had Anet just changed the additional healing in some way, the skill was fine how it was. Now Seed of Life will never see a skill bar again because Anet can't leave well enough alone. >.>

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 04:03 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

Seed of Life and "There's Nothing to Fear!" in their pre-nerf forms were exactly that - You had those skills and you did not die.

Seed of Life in its pre-nerf form was just as good as [skill]Healing Seed[/skill]... Just had a wider range.

Again, who are we hurting here? The monsters? Regular players? Bots? God?

If they're going to nerf SoL, at least nerf it's PvP counterpart.

I'm not complaining about the nerf. I'm laughing at it. Switch to HS and throw ANet another finger.

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

31 Aug 2007 at 04:11 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

Oh noes! We can no longer use overpowered skills and we are now forced to actually think. Honestly, it's not like the game is unplayable now that these skills are no longer as effective as they once were. So Seed of Life's duration has been reduced and its recharge increased. Monks managed before it was ever part of the game and they will manage after. As for TNTF you now have to wait an additional 10 seconds. Big deal. Chain it if it means that much to your success.

Like I said above we managed before these skills were introduced to the game and we will manage after. Get over it.

There's very little thinking involved with half the game. 1, 2, 3, 4, hex, 5, condition, 6, res, 8, party heal, 7 and so on and so forth. I play this game for story since the difficulty is miniscule compared to the other games I play.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

31 Aug 2007 at 04:12 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

Balanced PVE? Can somebody explain to me where the balance is? I really don't see it. I mean there are bosses out there that can practicaly 1 hit wipe a party unless you have high hp, or a good party set up. Also if the 2 monk, nuker, MM, and tank mentality is the good set up, then why even have the other professions?

Seriously either this game's pve is lacking acceptable diversity, or the idea of balance in pve is way off. If any balance is needed at all it's to make the underdog professions more wanted in a pve enviroment, such as the mesmer, rit, or paragon.

Agreed, to some extent. If we are trying to "balance" PvE, then we need some serious nerfs in other places.

TNTF did need a nerf though, I will not say that it was perfectly balanced, but Paragons need overpowered skills to be considered valuable in PvE. Anyone ever try finding a group for FoW or UW as a Paragon, even with TNTF? Good luck is all I can say.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Paragons are underpowered in PvE, FAR from it. However, they do not fit the tank/nuke/heal that is "elite" PvE. The "other" professions need overpowered PvE skills to maybe help break the holy trinity of tank/nuke/heal. Paragons have the potential to do this. The holy trinity exists because it is much easier to protect one person than it is 8, which means with one tank, all healing can be focused on him, so the rest of the characters can be the current high damage build. Simply because it is easier to defend one person than it is 8. Paragons sort of help break away from this, with full party healing/defense. They help move the game away from the holy trinity, which as far is I know, is a good thing due to there being more professions than 3. However, it seems that breaking the holy trinity is forbidden, look at the remnants of Communing.

/endrant

And incase anyone got the wrong idea:
I do agree that TNTF! should have been nerfed, it was mad strong.
I also believe that Paragons are good in PvE, so I'm not bashing Paragons either.
I do actually greatly dislike the holy trinity crap that elite missions require.

Andisa Kalorn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

[PMS]

31 Aug 2007 at 04:12 - 33

Seed of life never worked so well in hero/hench groups anyway. Kinda sucks that the pve skills get nerfed because they're so effective in all human groups. Yet we don't get that benefit with the heroes.

It's not the end of the world I never really used the skill anyway, I just wonder why they bother with the pve skills at all.

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

31 Aug 2007 at 04:14 - 34

And the paragon takes another beating..

At least they fixed the invisible character thing.

thor hammerbane

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dark Side of the Moon

Fat Kids Are Hard To Kid[nap]

31 Aug 2007 at 04:16 - 35

Useless skill..hurrah. I don't see the point in nerfing PvE skills, not like they are being overused to kill real people and get anything good? Cmon..It's PvE, It's all of us vs those nasty critters!

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

31 Aug 2007 at 04:24 - 36

The whole TNTF shouldn't have been nerfed because paragons don't get picked in pugs is such a flawed argument.

It's imbalanced, and paragons don't get picked because gw players are generally terrible

Vyral

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

W/

31 Aug 2007 at 04:29 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

The OP forgot to mention the "There's Nothing To Fear" nerf...which is quite funny, IMO.

Chance of Paragon getting into PUg in GW:EN: 0%.

Even better, They did this just as Angelic Bond Paragons were breaking into the cookie cutter "Steel Wall" Deep build. Gotta nerf... can't have Paragons being used in high level areas!

Incandecree

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Archons of Elona

Mo/

31 Aug 2007 at 04:34 - 38

That is so true. That is a double "balance" to the Angelic Bonder. They balanced SoL so that even 4 monks couldn't keep it up at all times; even though with a paragon it is usually 3 monks and the paragon. Also with the TNtF balance the paragon is left defenseless completely for 5 seconds.

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

31 Aug 2007 at 04:34 - 39

You know what gets me? Is the fact they could have done this a couple of weeks ago, if they wanted too. However instead they wait till EotN is about to be released and say, “hey let’s nerf the hell out of the PvE only skills. It will force players to get EotN so they can have access to many other PvE only skills that will eventually get nerfed latter on.”

Honestly what is the point in doing it now, then a few days earlier? Are you really trying to send a message? Seed of Life was an, “okay” skill at best (yeah I had it in my skill bar). I guess I will just replace it with the next thing, since other monk skills are way better then it now. Hey at least now, it’s one less skill to grind for.

As for the TNtF; well I have to say it probably did not kill the skill. Probably still use that anyways.

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

31 Aug 2007 at 04:52 - 40

Sad to hear of the TNTF nerf... It's not unuseable in the least, but I'm abit spoiled.