This was and is a silly nerf to these skills. This is PvE not PvP get a life ANET and seperate the two.
50,000 Sunspear points farmed for 5 seconds crap is bull.
Even with +20% from enchant and +35% from Blessed Aura the max you can get is 8 out of 25 seconds. ... I am so sick of complaints from people that help create these nerfs.
Sorry ANET thats simply not worth it to farm for ridiculous amount of Sunspear points for. Guess I'll be leaving my monk at home.
As for the Paragon Skill that was BS too.
Paragon/PvE Skills Nerfed again
GloryFox
sindex
I think there should set up an oligarchy to surround the nerf’s of some of these skills. Clearly one person making all these decisions is just not working either. For that individual is stubborn and only wants to listen to himself, or he listens to the wrong people. They need a couple of individuals who see from both sides of the perspective and not one person.
Sorry Izzy, hope no offence taken.
Sorry Izzy, hope no offence taken.
Avarre
What's this?
Skills that made your team nearly invulnerable without any player skill or investment of attributes got nerfed?
I wonder who could have seen that coming?
Skills that made your team nearly invulnerable without any player skill or investment of attributes got nerfed?
I wonder who could have seen that coming?
Omniclasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
What's this?
Skills that made your team nearly invulnerable without any player skill or investment of attributes got nerfed? I wonder who could have seen that coming? |
sindex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
What's this?
Skills that made your team nearly invulnerable without any player skill got nerfed? I wonder who could have seen that coming? |
Abedeus
Pretty much, but you could make it heal for Divine Favor x 1, not x2. Or just the recharge, so monks would MUST have a glyph for non-stop health. Or both and it wouldn't be overpowered.
For all that are sad: I have 11 favor on my monk and I cast it on frontline assassin. He gets hit 5 times during 10 seconds. 5x22x7 = 770 in five seconds, team wide. Only if one monster is attacking him. What if three monsters are attacking him... For full duration? Excluding the attack speed, 10x3x22x7 = 4620. Still think it wasn't overpowered?
For all that are sad: I have 11 favor on my monk and I cast it on frontline assassin. He gets hit 5 times during 10 seconds. 5x22x7 = 770 in five seconds, team wide. Only if one monster is attacking him. What if three monsters are attacking him... For full duration? Excluding the attack speed, 10x3x22x7 = 4620. Still think it wasn't overpowered?
Bryant Again
It made *everything* a cakewalk.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by sindex
I never knew “Seed of Life” could make you team completely and utterly invincible, with an 8 second interval. I thought your team could still get wiped in certain places whether you bring the skill or not. (sarcasm) This skill made DoA such a cake walk. (sarcasm)
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Darkobra
Funny. I seem to do a similar job as a protection monk.
GloryFox
Sorry Avarre but your wrong there was an investment. That investment was time spent grinding for these skill ranks. The skill was excellent and not everyone joins a leet group to play with. That effort of grinding to many people such as myself feels wasted.
I no longer believe that ANET understands balance only how to irritate and not listen. If this was the skill months ago, I never would have invested the time to max that skill out.
ANET = Grind over Skill for the Skill then we kill the skill.
Back at ANET HQ
Developer 1: So what do you want to do today?
Developer 2: I know lets nerf PvE and piss a bunch of committed GW players off just before the next chapter release. LOL, it will be funny. Afterwords wanna HoH? Those PvE players are such Noobs they need a player skill upgrade.
I no longer believe that ANET understands balance only how to irritate and not listen. If this was the skill months ago, I never would have invested the time to max that skill out.
ANET = Grind over Skill for the Skill then we kill the skill.
Back at ANET HQ
Developer 1: So what do you want to do today?
Developer 2: I know lets nerf PvE and piss a bunch of committed GW players off just before the next chapter release. LOL, it will be funny. Afterwords wanna HoH? Those PvE players are such Noobs they need a player skill upgrade.
Legendary Shiz
Though I agree, overpowered skills need to be nerfed.
But at the same time, if you couldn't tell a skill like "Seed Of Life" was going to be powerful when you were developing it, it just means you're not good at your job.
I never even used the skill tbh, but the dudes got a point. Some skills are over powered because they synergize well with other things, but that skill itself was simply too powerful. Why did it take them two weeks to realize that, when you could tell in 3 second it took to read it.
But at the same time, if you couldn't tell a skill like "Seed Of Life" was going to be powerful when you were developing it, it just means you're not good at your job.
I never even used the skill tbh, but the dudes got a point. Some skills are over powered because they synergize well with other things, but that skill itself was simply too powerful. Why did it take them two weeks to realize that, when you could tell in 3 second it took to read it.
sindex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
If that's what you think, then you're terrible at Guild Wars. Sorry.
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As for the other guy who came off with 720hp per second. You said hit five times per second (duration of 10); so it would be 22X5= 110hp per second the entire duration of 10sec would be 1,110hp. There has been times I have come across skills that can still be able to beat down this heal regen, especially a certain combination of them can be rather lethal. Maybe there were certain places this skill was overpowered, but in other places this skill could be rather useless.
buzzerman
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Originally Posted by yesitsrob
The whole TNTF shouldn't have been nerfed because paragons don't get picked in pugs is such a flawed argument.
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Quote:
| It's imbalanced, and paragons don't get picked because gw players are generally terrible |
Perhaps that's exactly why paragons needed a skill like TNTF, to be welcomed by the current player base, whatever that is -- because, well, a paragon still wants to get into a PUG, as "terrible" as it may be. Not everyone is as "l33t" as you
And, by the way, come on, there is no such thing as "balance" in PvE..
Age
When did all this happen as I see no update notes I haven't checked the GWWiki yet?I was enjoying this as replacement for Aegis I guess it is back to it.
Faer
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Originally Posted by FelixCarter
Switch to HS
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Have fun with that. I'll stick to pushing the red bars up in more reliable, less hazardous, manners.
MirkoTeran
Fixing 2 god-mode skills? Nothing wrong with that.
zwei2stein
I, for one, am VERY happy with theese changes.
Way to go, whoever did this ballance.
Way to go, whoever did this ballance.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
Sorry Avarre but your wrong there was an investment. That investment was time spent grinding for these skill ranks. The skill was excellent and not everyone joins a leet group to play with. That effort of grinding to many people such as myself feels wasted.
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Having a skill that could heal a colossal amount, effectively remove all group pressure, and didn't require any attributes meaning it could fit effectively into a build with heal/prot monks made it ridiculous. That doesn't even begin to take into account the effects when combined with bonds or other passive defence.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sindex
You’re an idiot then, pardon the pun. For if you honestly think one skill dominates all other skills you would be dead wrong.
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GloryFox
Thats 8 of 25 seconds, if
1) you carry a +20% enchant Item
2) Divine skill at 16
3) Use Blessed Aura for +35%
In total it will add +3 seconds to a 5 second skill that you must
1) Take time to farm 50,000 sunspear points.
2) Have beaten Nightfall
You might have the time to play all day and grind, Most PvE casual players do not.
To all those who think PvE is easy here is a great suggestion. Stop telling others how to enjoy their game, if you don't like them don't play with them.
There is a fun aspect to the game that does not need to be Grind and Nerfed just because its easy for you. If its so easy for you just use mending and if someone wants to take Seed of Life as it was let them or don't let them in your group.
1) you carry a +20% enchant Item
2) Divine skill at 16
3) Use Blessed Aura for +35%
In total it will add +3 seconds to a 5 second skill that you must
1) Take time to farm 50,000 sunspear points.
2) Have beaten Nightfall
You might have the time to play all day and grind, Most PvE casual players do not.
To all those who think PvE is easy here is a great suggestion. Stop telling others how to enjoy their game, if you don't like them don't play with them.
There is a fun aspect to the game that does not need to be Grind and Nerfed just because its easy for you. If its so easy for you just use mending and if someone wants to take Seed of Life as it was let them or don't let them in your group.
Maximumraver
At least Seed of Life was useful for a while, Intensity didn't even last 3 days.
Racthoh
TNTF is still amazing, as is Seed of Life. Remember how awesome Incoming! was when it lasted for 5, 6 seconds with a 20 second recharge? Even though it was only up ~25% of the time it was an amazing skill? How is it then that since TNTF is now only up ~50% of the time, giving a 32-35% reduction in damage followed by a Heal Party it becomes a useless skill? Let's also not forget, it isn't elite.
All this tweak has done is changed my elite to Focussed Anger, another skill to For Great Justice!, and brought along Save Yourselves!. I refuse to put any sort of effort into playing my paragon.
Show me a paragon skill, rather, show me *any* skill that is better than TNTF. I am rather curious.
All this tweak has done is changed my elite to Focussed Anger, another skill to For Great Justice!, and brought along Save Yourselves!. I refuse to put any sort of effort into playing my paragon.
Show me a paragon skill, rather, show me *any* skill that is better than TNTF. I am rather curious.
Shanaeri Rynale
I'm kinda sad to see SoF and TnTF be nerfed. Part of the fun of these skills was the sheer overpoweredness of it, however they did make the game very easy and could be exploited in fun, but game breaking ways(e.g SoL on minions). It's healther for the game in general, for people not to rely on PvE only skills although I totally understand why those who ground out max SS are miffed tho, and it was obvious these skills were superpowered just by looking.
I'm sure these will still be massively useful, they will just require to be ran with skills; just like any other build should.
I'm sure these will still be massively useful, they will just require to be ran with skills; just like any other build should.
sindex
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
If you honestly think skills like Seed of Life and TNTF were on the level of other skills, then I don't know if you've played Guild Wars.
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GloryFox
Avarre your argument comes from a PvP point of view of the game, if the skills were meant to be on par with other skills then they
now here is the spoiler
WOULD NOT BE PVE ONLY SKILLS!
You gave up your point of view with the words.
"balance"
"spike"
Obviously spoken form someone from a PvP perspective. PvE is about the Experience not the balance for crying out loud. As for the skills needed to make Paragon wanted, sorry Avarre either you play with only Leet Players, or you have never really played GW. Paragons were and still are hated to some extent. It was only when I forced myself to grind (mind you that was 1 month of casual play for me to grind) was I able to convince people to let me into a FOW group with my Paragon. The paragon nerf now only reinforces the stereo type of Bonder, Nuker, Tank mentality unless you have two paragons willing to work together. Then the Nerf does not matter. Considering you live in a different world then most GW players that will not affect you. However it will affect a great deal of other GW players.
now here is the spoiler
WOULD NOT BE PVE ONLY SKILLS!
You gave up your point of view with the words.
"balance"
"spike"
Obviously spoken form someone from a PvP perspective. PvE is about the Experience not the balance for crying out loud. As for the skills needed to make Paragon wanted, sorry Avarre either you play with only Leet Players, or you have never really played GW. Paragons were and still are hated to some extent. It was only when I forced myself to grind (mind you that was 1 month of casual play for me to grind) was I able to convince people to let me into a FOW group with my Paragon. The paragon nerf now only reinforces the stereo type of Bonder, Nuker, Tank mentality unless you have two paragons willing to work together. Then the Nerf does not matter. Considering you live in a different world then most GW players that will not affect you. However it will affect a great deal of other GW players.
FelixCarter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Faer
What, and encourage my team to ball up against Charr that spam AoE (among other ridiculous PvE junk)?
Have fun with that. I'll stick to pushing the red bars up in more reliable, less hazardous, manners. |
For people that say they don't like trolling, I seem to see the opposite here.
yesitsrob
Quote:
| And, by the way, come on, there is no such thing as "balance" in PvE.. |
There is absolutely no doubt TNTF and Seed of Life were leagues ahead of any other skill. Though I believe Save Yourselves and Critical Agility to be pretty awesome too.
To someone who doesn't completely suck at Guild Wars, those two skills made things rather well... ZzZz to a semi-organised Guild group, there is absolutely nothing you couldn't do in Guild Wars when using one or both.
They weren't fun, monking had truly never been so mind numbing with Seed of Life, and with TNTF well, they may as well have never made Hard Mode in the first place.
FelixCarter
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Originally Posted by Whirlwind
Naw im not internet arguing any more, have a hayday on your other endeavours here tho =)
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But I'm still asking the question to other people:
Why nerf SoL and keep Healing Seed intact? One is abviously far better than the other now...
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FelixCarter
It's not a problem. No worries.
But I'm still asking the question to other people: Why nerf SoL and keep Healing Seed intact? One is abviously far better than the other now... |
SleepyLuxon
TNTF to those who think it needed a nerf it may have, but this is just overnerfed to death. Its still probably the best Paragon skill but getting into groups as a paragon was hard enough now they will tell me, "TNTF stinks now,so no FoW for you!" Seriously This skill was strong and gave paragons a purpose as a damage reductor. Now The recharge makes people rather have a bonder instead.
People who never played paragons its easy to say its overpowered but to a paragon player its what made us wanted!! Now we are some ranged warrior with a spear Micheal Jackson dance moves and a kilt and most of the community will call us cheerleaders....oh wait more nerfs to shouts....spearleaders...pfft.
I love the paragon class so much ill play through the nerfs and adapt but ill always remember ill never be as good as i was with TNTF at its former glory....... and to those who would say if you have to rely on TNTF get a new build nub.
heres my reply name a better shout that can replace this without having to have more then 1 paragon in the team.
Since i shouldnt have to be forced to run 2 of the same class to be even remotly effective!
People who never played paragons its easy to say its overpowered but to a paragon player its what made us wanted!! Now we are some ranged warrior with a spear Micheal Jackson dance moves and a kilt and most of the community will call us cheerleaders....oh wait more nerfs to shouts....spearleaders...pfft.
I love the paragon class so much ill play through the nerfs and adapt but ill always remember ill never be as good as i was with TNTF at its former glory....... and to those who would say if you have to rely on TNTF get a new build nub.
heres my reply name a better shout that can replace this without having to have more then 1 paragon in the team.
Since i shouldnt have to be forced to run 2 of the same class to be even remotly effective!
Shanaeri Rynale
One skill should'nt really define a profession, nor be the begining and end of. Paragons, like mesmers are generally misunderstood by the general GW playing public. Thats not a problem with the skills per se, but of peoples impressions and sterotypes.
TnTF was intially more broken that it was. Heck I ran it at max power before they introduced the leadership requirement. It's not that people are PvP biased, just just want some skill involved in PvE.
Superpower skills errode the skill required; which is in turn bad for the game. For example, in FPS games there is rarely a power up that allows the player godmode for all of the time(or even 50%), it's a treat used in rare occasions. If you look at these changes in the light of a 'single player game', and the need to maintain some difficulty in PvE then no matter the fun these kinda make sense.
Even now, on my paragon most places become a complete rampage in NM PvE, and in HM the paragon will easily reduce the pressure a great deal(my Para is SS 6 i think, so rarely used TNTF) there are other builds that make the paragon a fantastic profession to play.
Just enjoy playing your paragon, in the same way as mesmers and assasins do. Any good player still knows these profession have a lot to contribute, and ignore what anyone else says to the contrary.
TnTF was intially more broken that it was. Heck I ran it at max power before they introduced the leadership requirement. It's not that people are PvP biased, just just want some skill involved in PvE.
Superpower skills errode the skill required; which is in turn bad for the game. For example, in FPS games there is rarely a power up that allows the player godmode for all of the time(or even 50%), it's a treat used in rare occasions. If you look at these changes in the light of a 'single player game', and the need to maintain some difficulty in PvE then no matter the fun these kinda make sense.
Even now, on my paragon most places become a complete rampage in NM PvE, and in HM the paragon will easily reduce the pressure a great deal(my Para is SS 6 i think, so rarely used TNTF) there are other builds that make the paragon a fantastic profession to play.
Just enjoy playing your paragon, in the same way as mesmers and assasins do. Any good player still knows these profession have a lot to contribute, and ignore what anyone else says to the contrary.
FelixCarter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Sure, if you think heal area does the same thing as heal party.
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You have a Monk... You should know that.
I only used SoL on the tanks anyways... Why would Healing Seed be any different? Keeps them alive and gives me 10 seconds to focus less on them and more on others.
Omniclasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SleepyLuxon
TNTF to those who think it needed a nerf it may have, but this is just overnerfed to death. Its still probably the best Paragon skill but getting into groups as a paragon was hard enough now they will tell me, "TNTF stinks now,so no FoW for you!" Seriously This skill was strong and gave paragons a purpose as a damage reductor. Now The recharge makes people rather have a bonder instead.
People who never played paragons its easy to say its overpowered but to a paragon player its what made us wanted!! Now we are some ranged warrior with a spear Micheal Jackson dance moves and a kilt and most of the community will call us cheerleaders....oh wait more nerfs to shouts....spearleaders...pfft. I love the paragon class so much ill play through the nerfs and adapt but ill always remember ill never be as good as i was with TNTF at its former glory....... and to those who would say if you have to rely on TNTF get a new build nub. heres my reply name a better shout that can replace this without having to have more then 1 paragon in the team. Since i shouldnt have to be forced to run 2 of the same class to be even remotly effective! |
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FelixCarter
Heal Area doesn't do the same thing as Heal Party.
You have a Monk... You should know that. I only used SoL on the tanks anyways... Why would Healing Seed be any different? Keeps them alive and gives me 10 seconds to focus less on them and more on others. |
Heal Party: Heal entire party for 16...67 points.
Healing Seed: Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 3...25 health.
Heal Area: Spell. Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 30...150 points.
Heal Area is to Heal Party as Healing Seed is to Seed of Life.
Mad King Corn
That brainless nerfing is why anet lost any future sales from me. I actually took the time to write them a thank you right after the pve skills were released, then a day later they ruined them. I swore right then and there that they are no longer worth the powder to blow them all to hell, and will never put another penny in their sorry pockets. Hope you people enjoy your new GWEN skills now, cause they will be rendered crapola in a few days by the hands of those butchers.
yesitsrob
I cannot believe people think TNTF is now useless, honestly how bad can you possibly be at this game? It is still by far the best skill in PVE.
GloryFox
Quote:
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posted by Racthoh TNTF is still amazing, as is Seed of Life. Remember how awesome Incoming! was when it lasted for 5, 6 seconds with a 20 second recharge? Even though it was only up ~25% of the time it was an amazing skill? How is it then that since TNTF is now only up ~50% of the time, giving a 32-35% reduction in damage followed by a Heal Party it becomes a useless skill? Let's also not forget, it isn't elite. All this tweak has done is changed my elite to Focussed Anger, another skill to For Great Justice!, and brought along Save Yourselves!. I refuse to put any sort of effort into playing my paragon. Show me a paragon skill, rather, show me *any* skill that is better than TNTF. I am rather curious. |
@Shanaeri Rynale
I agree to the heart of what you are saying but that is not the reality of the in game perception of the average player base. I will still play my paragon with Norn Shouts that are very effective but if playing as lone paragon I won't bother with TNTF again. Now if theres 2 of us.. well I'll see it's use.
SleepyLuxon
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Originally Posted by yesitsrob
I cannot believe people think TNTF is now useless, honestly how bad can you possibly be at this game? It is still by far the best skill in PVE.
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I agree its still a good skill but pug mentality's won't know that and think because of a nerf to it that their's no point in bringing it if we could bring a bonder instead.
FelixCarter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Seed of life: For 1...4 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, all party members are healed for 2 Health for each rank in Divine Favor.
Heal Party: Heal entire party for 16...67 points. Healing Seed: Enchantment Spell. For 10 seconds, whenever target other ally takes damage, that ally and all adjacent allies gain 3...25 health. Heal Area: Spell. Heal yourself and all adjacent creatures for 30...150 points. Heal Area is to Heal Party as Healing Seed is to Seed of Life. |
But HS is still far better than SoL. Both cost 10 energy. Both have the same recharge.
But one heals for 30 Health over 10 seconds...
The other heals for 30 Health over 5 seconds...
I just think if they're going to nerf it down to 5 seconds, decrease the energy cost to 5 or decrease the recharge to 20 seconds.
If it's really about "balance", then balance it in comparison with the other skills...
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
It is that average player, that 95% who grinded all those hours that is most hit and hurt by these nerfs, not the likes of you or many other good players here.
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Darkobra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Sure, if you think heal area does the same thing as heal party.
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