Well of course it´s not that important and you can monk in many other ways, but I think it´s true that Seed of Life has not been nerfed but simply deleted from the monks skill list and so there is no Sunspear skill for monks anymore which is quite unfair for those who tried to max this title.
Also it was a replacement for Aegis which has been deleted as a monk skill as it is imho now a Paragon skill. This has an impact on the classical role player profile of a protecting monk who should have a skill that gives the whole party some benefit when storming into a battle. But for this he must stay out of aggro range of the enemies in order not to break prematurely the tanks aggro. Now both skills Aegis and Seed of Life have been changed into melee character skills, giving the Paragon new possibilities (well at least when they are honest enough to also transfer Seed of Life to the Paragons skill list).
Paragon/PvE Skills Nerfed again
Marcus The Cube
Base One
bah why killl Pve skills i dont care that me monk is overpowered
its PVE right ?
or what i need the max sunspear title to get a max of 5 sec
that just BAD i can see any reason to make it max i mean ..sunspear point you need for ?? spell that are Nerfed ? i say BAH
its player vs some scrips en ai routines i dont really care for balance ...pvp now that is something els balance all you can or need but Dont touch me pve
makes me wana throw up in a box end send it to ANet
damn shame and i just bought Gwen
its PVE right ?
or what i need the max sunspear title to get a max of 5 sec
that just BAD i can see any reason to make it max i mean ..sunspear point you need for ?? spell that are Nerfed ? i say BAH
its player vs some scrips en ai routines i dont really care for balance ...pvp now that is something els balance all you can or need but Dont touch me pve
makes me wana throw up in a box end send it to ANet
damn shame and i just bought Gwen
GloryFox
@ Avarre
LOL, ok so I apologize about what I said about the mesmer thing. Thats what I get for posting after being up for 21 hours. My primary argument still stands though. Your still making PvP arguments for a nerf to a PvE skill that many people had to spend countless hours getting, that skill is now almost useless as is. You still have no concept of the PuG perception out there for Paragons either. I still think you live in a different world then 95% of the player base that does not have your skill level. Furthermore you don't have to PUG for HM.
These two skills have been out months now helping people with hard mode. The Armor nerf was irritating enough. Why now ANET just before GWEN release.
LOL, ok so I apologize about what I said about the mesmer thing. Thats what I get for posting after being up for 21 hours. My primary argument still stands though. Your still making PvP arguments for a nerf to a PvE skill that many people had to spend countless hours getting, that skill is now almost useless as is. You still have no concept of the PuG perception out there for Paragons either. I still think you live in a different world then 95% of the player base that does not have your skill level. Furthermore you don't have to PUG for HM.
These two skills have been out months now helping people with hard mode. The Armor nerf was irritating enough. Why now ANET just before GWEN release.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
My primary argument still stands though. Your still making PvP arguments for a nerf to a PvE skill that many people had to spend countless hours getting, that skill is now almost useless as is.
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| You still have no concept of the PuG perception out there for Paragons either. I still think you live in a different world then 95% of the player base that does not have your skill level. Furthermore you don't have to PUG for HM. |
The only areas I can't hero/hench are the ones that I take one or two other humans along so we can have a full hero party. These areas being elite missions or FoW/UW, and why you would want to PuG the most difficult areas in the game doesn't make a whole lot of sense. PuGs wouldn't have such a bad reputation if they were succeeding the majority of the time now would they?
Angiolina
it's a pve skill........................................
why nerf this skill?
ridicolous
why nerf this skill?
ridicolous
Epinephrine
Lol, yeah, why nerf PvE skills? Shouldn't the whole game be ludicrously easy?
They nerfed the PvE skills because the game should have challenges, and the skills were so overpowered that it wasn't. At least the PvEers can't blame the PvP community this time
Good on the nerfs.
They nerfed the PvE skills because the game should have challenges, and the skills were so overpowered that it wasn't. At least the PvEers can't blame the PvP community this time
Loviatar
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this implosion will only increase as more skills are adjusted so set out the ear protectors
Ecomancer
Yeh lets make the game challenging. Lets nerf Protective Spirit; For 1...5 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 40% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell. Whilst at it, lets also make it so you have to be a attain a certain rank in some PVE non grind title. That should make it fun. Oh my bad, Protective Spirit isn't a PVE only skill, ah well I tried. I think I need to come up with better designed PVE only skills.
Please for a moment consider the usefulness of the skill as it stands currently and in all honestly try and answer; is a PVE skill such as Seed of Life worthwhile equipping when it costs 10 energy an lasts for a meagre 4 seconds with nongrinding rank 8 title? If your answer was a YES then please, and I do mean, please equip it on your monk every time you leave a town or an outpost and do show us a video or two of it used on a regular basis.
Please for a moment consider the usefulness of the skill as it stands currently and in all honestly try and answer; is a PVE skill such as Seed of Life worthwhile equipping when it costs 10 energy an lasts for a meagre 4 seconds with nongrinding rank 8 title? If your answer was a YES then please, and I do mean, please equip it on your monk every time you leave a town or an outpost and do show us a video or two of it used on a regular basis.
Age
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Yeah, because monks don't have divine favor already in every build.
Prot bond was a PvE nerf, I don't know what you're talking about calling it PvP? I was referring to the fact that skill balance was based around skills used at their maximum potential, and those were two examples (prot bond at extremely high prot attrib, multiple skills used for spiking). I gave two examples to show that this method of balance was not dependent on the gametype. Gein : Go ahead with that mentality all you want, you're causing your own problems. The fact is, admitted by you as well, that better players aren't affected by this. |
Like I said I wasn't causing my own problems and if some Monk skills get a balance it is not because they are overpowered it is because of the rampant abuse in PvP.
To all the others I never noticed a change in Seed of Life after testing out lastnight.I still see the same numbers come up so this us some what of a hoax by the OP as there are no update notes to back it up.Seed of Life has not been nerfedI will believe it if I see the update notes.
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by Age
To all the others I never noticed a change in Seed of Life after testing out lastnight.I still see the same numbers come up so this us some what of a hoax by the OP as there are no update notes to back it up.Seed of Life has not been nerfedI will believe it if I see the update notes.
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I'm not sure if that's ignorant or paranoid.
Ecomancer
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Originally Posted by Age
To all the others I never noticed a change in Seed of Life after testing out lastnight.I still see the same numbers come up so this us some what of a hoax by the OP as there are no update notes to back it up.Seed of Life has not been nerfedI will believe it if I see the update notes.
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I Is Special
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Originally Posted by Age
To all the others I never noticed a change in Seed of Life after testing out lastnight.I still see the same numbers come up so this us some what of a hoax by the OP as there are no update notes to back it up.Seed of Life has not been nerfedI will believe it if I see the update notes.
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Kashrlyyk
Here you go: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates
Seed of Life: reduced duration to 1..5 seconds; increased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Seed of Life: reduced duration to 1..5 seconds; increased recharge time to 25 seconds.
Retribution X
Maybe they'd like to fix some HM places where some mobs have skills that require weapons that they don't even use?
But nope, they nerf skills that they added.
And if they think it was overpowered now, why did they make it the way it was?
Maybe think for 20 seconds BEFORE making any new skills...
But nope, they nerf skills that they added.
And if they think it was overpowered now, why did they make it the way it was?
Maybe think for 20 seconds BEFORE making any new skills...
Age
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
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elk
Sorry - didn't bother to read much farther than the first few posts but all I have to personally say is that there is no such thing as "overpowered" skill in PvE. Who gives a rat's arse how strong a PvE only skill really is - IT'S PVE.
elk
elk
Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by elk
Sorry - didn't bother to read much farther than the first few posts but all I have to personally say is that there is no such thing as "overpowered" skill in PvE. Who gives a rat's arse how strong a PvE only skill really is - IT'S PVE.
elk |
If there were a PvE skill that said "When this is activated you kill all enemies in earshot. If in a mission you get masters. Gives +400% movement speed and invulnerability for running." it'd be pretty clearly dumb, so you are obviously wrong about there being no such thing as overpowered.
Since there is such thing as overpowered, a line must exist.
Seed of Life was too powerful - it rendered tough missions easy. They're meant to be tough.
Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
Umm, because otherwise the game is no fun?
If there were a PvE skill that said "When this is activated you kill all enemies in earshot. If in a mission you get masters. Gives +400% movement speed and invulnerability for running." it'd be pretty clearly dumb, so you are obviously wrong about there being no such thing as overpowered. Since there is such thing as overpowered, a line must exist. Seed of Life was too powerful - it rendered tough missions easy. They're meant to be tough. |
Because of the inability of some players to not use a skill they think is overpowered, the skill should be removed from the game?
Melody Cross
On the one side, I think this was a bad nerf. Instead of killing the skill, they could have just reduced its heal per hit by reducing the DF bonus to 2 or 1. that would still be worth bringing.
I have, thus far, avoided using it. The conditions and poor uptime for the skill combine to make it rather lousy unless chained by multiple monks. its not worth the slot when I can have healing seed to prot the tank, and keep the team up with proper agro and placment.
On the other side: LoL at some of the PvEers. its always been: PvP nerfs PvE! I'm sorry to laugh; I'm sure its not funny from your point of view, but at least you can't blame THIS skill balance on us
GGs
I have, thus far, avoided using it. The conditions and poor uptime for the skill combine to make it rather lousy unless chained by multiple monks. its not worth the slot when I can have healing seed to prot the tank, and keep the team up with proper agro and placment.
On the other side: LoL at some of the PvEers. its always been: PvP nerfs PvE! I'm sorry to laugh; I'm sure its not funny from your point of view, but at least you can't blame THIS skill balance on us
GGs
trobinson97
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
Umm, because otherwise the game is no fun?
If there were a PvE skill that said "When this is activated you kill all enemies in earshot. If in a mission you get masters. Gives +400% movement speed and invulnerability for running." it'd be pretty clearly dumb, so you are obviously wrong about there being no such thing as overpowered. Since there is such thing as overpowered, a line must exist. Seed of Life was too powerful - it rendered tough missions easy. They're meant to be tough. |
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No fun for who? If the answer is you, then simply don't use the skill. It is really funny how people don't grasp the concept of not using something that makes the game too easy for them. Then they go on to use some silly real life analogy (not yo in this case) about how they wouldn't cripple themselves. Well if you wouldn't cripple yourself, why ask someone else to cripple you? It was just a really dumb nerf, no ifs about it. Who cares if it made the game really easy for some people, it's their prerogative to play how they want. Why is it such a concern of yours how other people play? It's not PvP, it affects you in no way. If it lessens your experience, you have the choice to NOT use it. GG though Anet, way to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO your pve playerbase.
Evilsod
Oh so your theory behind this is that people shouldn't use it if they think its overpowered to make things hard on themselves... while the players who obviously lack the same level of skill can coast through it using overpowered skills?
Think before you post or you end up spewing shit like that.
Seed of Life was the equivilent of Aeris' final limit break in Final Fantasy 7... temporary invunerability that could be abused quite easily. While i would say upping the recharge and lowering duration was overkill, something had to be done.
Think before you post or you end up spewing shit like that.
Seed of Life was the equivilent of Aeris' final limit break in Final Fantasy 7... temporary invunerability that could be abused quite easily. While i would say upping the recharge and lowering duration was overkill, something had to be done.
Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
No fun for who? If the answer is you, then simply don't use the skill.
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Me> Ok, we've got our monks. Now, can we make sure nobody has Seed of Life, since it makes this mission too easy.
Monk1> Wtf? I want masters. Shut up.
Monk2> Kick him!
Besides - ANet has a job to challenge us. When the game is too easy they make it harder, when it's too hard they make it easier (FAR MORE OFTEN).
And your ease of accomplishing things does affect me - or more to the point, the play environment. Even if I only played with heroes, the economy feels the effects of the skill, as do the titles etc. I can choose to make the game harder for myself, yes - and I often do. I suspect ANet has a pretty good idea what people want from the game, and overall it's not to blast through it in a day, invulnerable. And with a tank and a bonder that's pretty much what Seed of Life did.
Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Melody Cross
On the one side, I think this was a bad nerf. Instead of killing the skill, they could have just reduced its heal per hit by reducing the DF bonus to 2 or 1. that would still be worth bringing.
I have, thus far, avoided using it. The conditions and poor uptime for the skill combine to make it rather lousy unless chained by multiple monks. its not worth the slot when I can have healing seed to prot the tank, and keep the team up with proper agro and placment. On the other side: LoL at some of the PvEers. its always been: PvP nerfs PvE! I'm sorry to laugh; I'm sure its not funny from your point of view, but at least you can't blame THIS skill balance on us GGs |
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Oh so your theory behind this is that people shouldn't use it if they think its overpowered to make things hard on themselves... while the players who obviously lack the same level of skill can coast through it using overpowered skills?
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trobinson97
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Oh so your theory behind this is that people shouldn't use it if they think its overpowered to make things hard on themselves... while the players who obviously lack the same level of skill can coast through it using overpowered skills?
Think before you post or you end up spewing shit like that. Seed of Life was the equivilent of Aeris' final limit break in Final Fantasy 7... temporary invunerability that could be abused quite easily. While i would say upping the recharge and lowering duration was overkill, something had to be done. |
Oh yeah, why are you so hung up on your so called "player skill" in this video game? Get real lol, funniest thing I've ever read. It's a video game, not the olympics.
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Originally Posted by Epeniphrine
Yeah, I can see that.
Me> Ok, we've got our monks. Now, can we make sure nobody has Seed of Life, since it makes this mission too easy. Monk1> Wtf? I want masters. Shut up. Monk2> Kick him! |
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Originally Posted by Epiniphrine
Besides - ANet has a job to challenge us. When the game is too easy they make it harder, when it's too hard they make it easier (FAR MORE OFTEN).
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Originally Posted by Epiniphrine
And your ease of accomplishing things does affect me - or more to the point, the play environment. Even if I only played with heroes, the economy feels the effects of the skill, as do the titles etc. I can choose to make the game harder for myself, yes - and I often do. I suspect ANet has a pretty good idea what people want from the game, and overall it's not to blast through it in a day, invulnerable. And with a tank and a bonder that's pretty much what Seed of Life did.
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Ecomancer
Amusing posts.
Seed of Life does not give you any of that. Seed of Life isn't god mode people. I fail to understand where all these comments are coming from. I would go as far as to hazzard a guess that many of the pronerf bats here have never even used Seed of Life. I must be missing something or Seed of Life must have been the only skill people used on their bar of 8 as monks to heal? Could 1 monk with just Seed of Life save 8 people including himself?
Put things into perspective please.
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| Gives +400% movement speed and invulnerability for running." it'd be pretty clearly dumb, so you are obviously wrong about there being no such thing as overpowered. |
Put things into perspective please.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by Ecomancer
Could 1 monk with just Seed of Life save 8 people including himself?
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Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by Ecomancer
Seed of Life isn't god mode people.
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It was laughably easy to blow through even hard mode missions with two human monks.
Ecomancer
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
Very easily actually.
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Originally Posted by Epinephrine
Actually, it pretty much was. Seed of Life on a paragon who is Angelic Bonding a tank (non-removable bond, paragon out of aggro) pretty much pumps healing to everyone. Two copies of Seed of life made permanent health gain to the party.
It was laughably easy to blow through even hard mode missions with two human monks. |
Epinephrine
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Originally Posted by Ecomancer
That may very well be true, but other similar scenarios can be drawn with other skills; BiP with 2 heal party monks.
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Could the one skill alone keep an entire party alive? No, but no skill can. It honestly povided more healing than anything else out there, by a HUGE margin. The old version, at say 10 seconds +20% enchanting gave 12 seconds of time; in that period a player who was under fire (say, trying to get aggro, but not a perfect tanking situation) could easily expect to take damage 3 times or more per second. At 3 times a second and decent Divine favor (say about 12?) it's a Heal Party at 13 healing every second for 12 seconds. That's 8*72*12, only 7000 health for 10 energy.
Doesn't that sound absurd? A heal party per second for 12 seconds???
With bonding/tanking it got even worse - the number of pulses of damage could get much higher, easily twice that figure, making for double the rate of healing. It simply wasn't possible to die while the tank was being hit.
haggus71
The bigger problem, I think, isn't whether Seed of Life shouldn't have been nerfed. I think if you are honest, the skill did make it a bit easy.
The problem is, if a good skill is around long enough, someone, somewhere, is going to make use of it. They post their build on Guru, showing how proud they are of their achievement. Next thing, everyone and their sister are using builds with the skill. The Anet crew reads the popular forums and wikis and get wind of it. They take a look at it, and if it is one skill that is making these characters overpowered, they whack it. Most times they will give some skills a buff when they have gone too far(ex: the recent sin skills buff). If they don't? It's just a skill! One of hundreds! If you can't play the game anymore because they nerfed Seed of Life, I wonder how you handle changes in the workplace. If you fall apart with a GAME SKILL NERF, do you fall apart and cry when your boss says a project might need a bit more work?
Yeah, whiners do sometimes get the attention of the devs, but I would HOPE they don't just say, "Oops, they're bitching about Incoming! Get out the bat." I would think they test it first, then adjust accordingly.
There have been many more severe nerfs before this one. Ask a paragon.
The problem is, if a good skill is around long enough, someone, somewhere, is going to make use of it. They post their build on Guru, showing how proud they are of their achievement. Next thing, everyone and their sister are using builds with the skill. The Anet crew reads the popular forums and wikis and get wind of it. They take a look at it, and if it is one skill that is making these characters overpowered, they whack it. Most times they will give some skills a buff when they have gone too far(ex: the recent sin skills buff). If they don't? It's just a skill! One of hundreds! If you can't play the game anymore because they nerfed Seed of Life, I wonder how you handle changes in the workplace. If you fall apart with a GAME SKILL NERF, do you fall apart and cry when your boss says a project might need a bit more work?
Yeah, whiners do sometimes get the attention of the devs, but I would HOPE they don't just say, "Oops, they're bitching about Incoming! Get out the bat." I would think they test it first, then adjust accordingly.
There have been many more severe nerfs before this one. Ask a paragon.
Taurucis
6 seconds maximum for Seed of Life is pitiful. You have bosses that can destroy a team in one single spell, why not have at least one way to counter it?
Chicken Ftw
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
6 seconds maximum for Seed of Life is pitiful. You have bosses that can destroy a team in one single spell, why not have at least one way to counter it?
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Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
6 seconds maximum for Seed of Life is pitiful. You have bosses that can destroy a team in one single spell, why not have at least one way to counter it?
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acidic
seed of life was good, but this is over nerfing too much.
It was primarly used for when the team got swamped and broke aggro or when the monk want to conserve mana and sol is very energy efficient at 10e for a non stop party healing for 10 seconds. But now this is not worth taking, 5 seconds/25 recharge.
It was primarly used for when the team got swamped and broke aggro or when the monk want to conserve mana and sol is very energy efficient at 10e for a non stop party healing for 10 seconds. But now this is not worth taking, 5 seconds/25 recharge.
Faer
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
why not have at least one way to counter it?
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Problem solved?
around
So you're saying that skills should be balanced according to how good they are in a pug?
That's akin to saying PvP balance should be based on RA.
That's akin to saying PvP balance should be based on RA.
Taurucis
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Originally Posted by spawnofebil
So you're saying that skills should be balanced according to how good they are in a pug?
That's akin to saying PvP balance should be based on RA. |
Always assume the worst, so that you can adjust for it.
I don't do hard mode, btw
Thomas.knbk
Wait, could the fact that it was bloody impossible to die with two copies of this thrown on a bonder have something to do with it?
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
That's akin to saying PvE-only skills and PvE in general should be balanced based on PvP.
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Originally Posted by Taurucis
I don't do hard mode, btw
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FelixCarter
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Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
Wait, could the fact that it was bloody impossible to die with two copies of this thrown on a bonder have something to do with it?
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Make it last 10 seconds, cost 10 energy, recharge after 45 seconds, and not stack and not be triggered by bond.
Like I said: Nerf was too harsh. Don't completely obliterate a skill so that no one wants to use it again... Balance it.
I'm also fine with the 5 second duration if they make it cost 5 energy and recharge after 20 seconds.