Was GWEN too expensive for what we got?
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by fripple
You have what is called a "conflict of interest." The correct, legally prescribed tactic in such a situation is to SHUT THE HELL UP. Your opinion on any matter related to the game is irrelevant and, if publicly aired in an unofficial capacity, dangerously unethical, because you have a vested economic interest in specific outcomes, unlike the rest of the people posting.
actually no, I'm independant and if Guild Wars died tomorrow, my station would drop Guild Wars like a hot stone, but from both a personal and a business I hope to hell that it doesn't...
Oh and i set up my station for completely personal reasons, its not a big money endeavour like Gamespot or IGN, its for fun and i only want to make enough to grow the station and play games... its a community station, and I'd tell NCSoft and ANet where to go if they gave me issues and NCSoft are happily working with me because they know its fun and they can actually get an open and good opinion and actually join in teh discussions in our IRC... hell, i even had martin kerstein himself from NCSoft (and from here) DJ'ing himself to finish the GW:EN release day 24hour party... Its fun, thats it
So yeah, as a gamer, my opinion and knowledge are valid
Oh and i set up my station for completely personal reasons, its not a big money endeavour like Gamespot or IGN, its for fun and i only want to make enough to grow the station and play games... its a community station, and I'd tell NCSoft and ANet where to go if they gave me issues and NCSoft are happily working with me because they know its fun and they can actually get an open and good opinion and actually join in teh discussions in our IRC... hell, i even had martin kerstein himself from NCSoft (and from here) DJ'ing himself to finish the GW:EN release day 24hour party... Its fun, thats it
So yeah, as a gamer, my opinion and knowledge are valid
fripple
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
actually no, I'm independant and if Guild Wars died tomorrow, my station would drop Guild Wars like a hot stone, but from both a personal and a business I hope to hell that it doesn't...
Oh and i set up my station for completely personal reasons, its not a big money endeavour like Gamespot or IGN, its for fun and i only want to make enough to grow the station and play games... its a community station, and I'd tell NCSoft and ANet where to go if they gave me issues and NCSoft are happily working with me because they know its fun and they can actually get an open and good opinion and actually join in teh discussions in our IRC... hell, i even had martin kerstein himself from NCSoft (and from here) DJ'ing himself to finish the GW:EN release day 24hour party... Its fun, thats it
So yeah, as a gamer, my opinion and knowledge are valid Um, no. Whether you are an official employee of ArenaNet has absolutely nothing to do with conflict of interest. Whether you are making actual dollars out of the enterprise has nothing to do with conflict of interest. If you are personally affected by the outcome of something because there is an element of your private life that is directly involved with an issue in question, there is a conflict of interest. That's how it works. And since you have an operation that received cooperation from the corporation we're discussing here, your conflict of interest is extremely present and extremely incontrovertible. Your opinions are not in fact valid for that simple reason.
I'm finding it strange that every time you try to explain how you're objective you hold up MORE examples of what a seriously compromised perspective you have. Do you not understand how press and marketing work? Because you're, going entirely by the examples you yourself provided (such as the ones in the quote above), the virtual textbook example of a shill, even if you may be an unknowing one.
Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.
Oh and i set up my station for completely personal reasons, its not a big money endeavour like Gamespot or IGN, its for fun and i only want to make enough to grow the station and play games... its a community station, and I'd tell NCSoft and ANet where to go if they gave me issues and NCSoft are happily working with me because they know its fun and they can actually get an open and good opinion and actually join in teh discussions in our IRC... hell, i even had martin kerstein himself from NCSoft (and from here) DJ'ing himself to finish the GW:EN release day 24hour party... Its fun, thats it
So yeah, as a gamer, my opinion and knowledge are valid Um, no. Whether you are an official employee of ArenaNet has absolutely nothing to do with conflict of interest. Whether you are making actual dollars out of the enterprise has nothing to do with conflict of interest. If you are personally affected by the outcome of something because there is an element of your private life that is directly involved with an issue in question, there is a conflict of interest. That's how it works. And since you have an operation that received cooperation from the corporation we're discussing here, your conflict of interest is extremely present and extremely incontrovertible. Your opinions are not in fact valid for that simple reason.
I'm finding it strange that every time you try to explain how you're objective you hold up MORE examples of what a seriously compromised perspective you have. Do you not understand how press and marketing work? Because you're, going entirely by the examples you yourself provided (such as the ones in the quote above), the virtual textbook example of a shill, even if you may be an unknowing one.
Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by fripple
Quote: Originally Posted by fripple
Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.
I can see your point.
Lone, let me explain my thoughts more fully. If I could get a refund for the game, I wouldn't. Most people would just say "well then shut up!" The reason I speak up is that compared to the products that Anet has made there are some very disappointing aspects of EotN. And they represent an attitude of cutting corners. I disliked MOST of the NF armor & I didn't love the African theme as much as the Proph/Canthan, but I didn't complain because they took the time to make original armor & original environments. In EotN I feel that there is a turn in the philosophy (a bit) & an attempt to make more of a profit margin relative to content compared to the previous games. It's something I haven't seen in the other games, and it bothers me.
That said, I LOVE the Charr lands & the new races are great.
Lone, let me explain my thoughts more fully. If I could get a refund for the game, I wouldn't. Most people would just say "well then shut up!" The reason I speak up is that compared to the products that Anet has made there are some very disappointing aspects of EotN. And they represent an attitude of cutting corners. I disliked MOST of the NF armor & I didn't love the African theme as much as the Proph/Canthan, but I didn't complain because they took the time to make original armor & original environments. In EotN I feel that there is a turn in the philosophy (a bit) & an attempt to make more of a profit margin relative to content compared to the previous games. It's something I haven't seen in the other games, and it bothers me.
That said, I LOVE the Charr lands & the new races are great.
Lonesamurai
Quote:
Originally Posted by fripple
I'm finding it strange that every time you try to explain how you're objective you hold up MORE examples of what a seriously compromised perspective you have. Do you not understand how press and marketing work? Because you're, going entirely by the examples you yourself provided (such as the ones in the quote above), the virtual textbook example of a shill, even if you may be an unknowing one.
Now, if we were discussing something internal to the game - is Glint too much of a pushover, do mesmers have too much pink in their pink sparkles, etc - it would be fine. This is a discussion about external, largely economic matters, however, and this is where you get into rhetorical trouble.
You think i want to work in the fickle Game journalism industry as a real job? hahahaha, its a hobbie and i have a real life
In all complete honesty, i'm actually doing it to keep me focused as i'm actually a recovering alcoholic, so yeah, thats why i do it, not to make money and there by destroying your argument, sorry, but there you go
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Originally Posted by Darksun
yeah, i'd have to agree I was kind of confused by how Lone tore his own argument apart with reasons to the contrary.
I can see your point. Lone, let me explain my thoughts more fully. If I could get a refund for the game, I wouldn't. Most people would just say "well then shut up!" The reason I speak up is that compared to the products that Anet has made there are some very disappointing aspects of EotN. And they represent an attitude of cutting corners. I disliked MOST of the NF armor & I didn't love the African theme as much as the Proph/Canthan, but I didn't complain because they took the time to make original armor & original environments. In EotN I feel that there is a turn in the philosophy (a bit) & an attempt to make more of a profit margin relative to content compared to the previous games. It's something I haven't seen in the other games, and it bothers me. That said, I LOVE the Charr lands & the new races are great. Hell, I've not even had chance to get firther than the hall of Monuments myself as i've had flu, but from what i've seen its more of the same with some minor bells and whistles, exactly as i knew it would be... Factions was more of the same game, as was nightfall, so why would I, or anyone else consider GW:EN to be a major departure from what we already have? and armour reskins? most of the 15k elite armours in prophecies and Factions are only reskins anyway, so whats the big deal? Weapon reskins? there are only so many ways you can make a sword look, or a hammer for that matter... now if I got a one handed hammer, now i'd have played my arse off and made a smiting monk with a one handed hammer and shield new heroes? ok, again, more bells and whistles Dungeons? umm, ok... Oh, and not to mention the fact that the next product with Guild Wars in the title that we know of is 18 months to 2 years away... besides the fact that this is a casual game you can come and go from... FFS, I run the Guild Wars community team for the station, i DJ the Guild wars show, but I don't play every minute of every day fripple
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
Umm, actually no, if i was to make money from it myself as a person that may be the case, but I take nothing from it, all advertising and Donation revenue goes to keep the servers up and add more as and when we need them
You think i want to work in the fickle Game journalism industry as a real job? hahahaha, its a hobbie and i have a real life In all complete honesty, i'm actually doing it to keep me focused as i'm actually a recovering alcoholic, so yeah, thats why i do it, not to make money and there by destroying your argument, sorry, but there you go As I already said, making money has nothing to do with conflict of interest. Anything you have personal ties to in some way creates a conflict of interest. Is your child doing poorly in school? You have a conflict of interest in determining the cause of the problem because you are personally tied to the child's welfare. You aren't profiting from the child's education unless you're exceptionally creative with financing. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on issues (while in many cases of conflict of interest the required thing to do is to recuse yourself immediately, this is a message board and that would be a little silly), I'm just pointing out that questions of corporate behavior are pretty iffy because you do something where game-external events have an impact on your activity, while most of the rest of us do not. It's important to bear this in mind when having discussions.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lonesamurai and armour reskins? most of the 15k elite armours in prophecies and Factions are only reskins anyway, so whats the big deal? Um..(1 example) besides Proph giving my warrior 15 sets with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins, Factions & NF giving 6 with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins in stead of 5 set with 3 reskins. gee i dunno...
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Weapon reskins? there are only so many ways you can make a sword look, or a hammer for that matter... now if I got a one handed hammer, now i'd have played my arse off and made a smiting monk with a one handed hammer and shield
Again, as an artist I completely disagree.. I think EotN has great weapons. almost no reskins.
As such we have no conflict of interest over any game the station or my guild covers and will happily pull any show that doesn't have ratings... If Guild wars sucks, i'll pull it...
however, I have stated my PERSONAL feelings on the subject of GW:EN and the chances of the game being refunded... others have even quoted from the EULA, which everyone here who is playing has agreed to... this EULA is a typical EULA for most online games, with typical wording, if anyone here doesn't want to agree to the EULA that is available to read through ont eh official website BTW, then they shouldn't have bought the game in the first place and I have no sympathy for anyone that buys a product or any other intellectual type and then doesn't like it with out finding out more about it first
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Originally Posted by Darksun
I disagree completely. Environments make a HUGE difference. There is no end to what they can look like. Charr Lands? amazing.
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And as i said and as i have happily done on Guru and over on TGH, i will happily bitch about issues in game, and even on my show, just cos i do a show and i work with NCSoft, we are in no way affiliated or linked to NCSoft or ANet, or Blizzard, SoE, Auran or anyone else for that matter... |
Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
Dungeons? umm, ok...
since you're only at the eye... well.. I didn't believe it at first, but they are pretty repetitive. I dunno.. I still think they are kinda cool.
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by fripple
I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on issues (while in many cases of conflict of interest the required thing to do is to recuse yourself immediately, this is a message board and that would be a little silly), I'm just pointing out that questions of corporate behavior are pretty iffy because you do something where game-external events have an impact on your activity, while most of the rest of us do not. It's important to bear this in mind when having discussions. |
As such we have no conflict of interest over any game the station or my guild covers and will happily pull any show that doesn't have ratings... If Guild wars sucks, i'll pull it...
however, I have stated my PERSONAL feelings on the subject of GW:EN and the chances of the game being refunded... others have even quoted from the EULA, which everyone here who is playing has agreed to... this EULA is a typical EULA for most online games, with typical wording, if anyone here doesn't want to agree to the EULA that is available to read through ont eh official website BTW, then they shouldn't have bought the game in the first place and I have no sympathy for anyone that buys a product or any other intellectual type and then doesn't like it with out finding out more about it first
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Quote: Originally Posted by Darksun Um..(1 example) besides Proph giving my warrior 15 sets with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins, Factions & NF giving 6 with 1 or 2 tweaked reskins in stead of 5 set with 3 reskins. gee i dunno... Sunspear Armour 5k and 15k alone were reskins of Kurzick 5k and 15k, most of the elite armours in prophs were reskins, that was the point of them and no one complained back then
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Wrong. Even 2 years ago, people complained. Still, the % of reskin is forgivable. End of story. Having a game with only 4 (except the 5 warrior) and reskining 3 is ridiculous..
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Originally Posted by Darksun
Again, as an artist I completely disagree.. I think EotN has great weapons. almost no reskins.
Actually from seeing the weapons on guru i'm not overly impressed, but hell, i have my weapons and my characters are decked out and don't need changes so fnuh
Sunspear Armour 5k and 15k alone were reskins of Kurzick 5k and 15k, most of the elite armours in prophs were reskins, that was the point of them and no one complained back then
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They rock.
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
I really don't care about repetitiveness, the entire game is repetitive the second time through, i only do it with guildies for pleasure now
pff. That's such an excuse. I'm sure if every area in the game look the same you'd have something to complain about. The dungeons are generic. When that's the main selling point, and that's the quality you get, something is wrong.
Whirlwind
Compare this to the average new PC or Console title. You put in maybe 10-20 hours of gameplay, little more on the more 'complete' ones, and its over. Most with very little or no replay value. Now look at Gw:en all the replay value in the world, personally ill probably log 100+ just farming dungeons and points but thats me ~
Whirlwind
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Originally Posted by acidic
We didn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing pay to be their RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing beta testers
Unfortunatly most online games are like this... nature of the beast, so yes we did all sign up for it.
lord dragon
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Originally Posted by Whirlwind
Unfortunatly most online games are like this... nature of the beast, so yes we did all sign up for it.
Actually, we didn't. GW has never had this much grind in it. This is horrible and now effecting other areas of the game. Bad enough I bought it and hated it, now I am stuck seeing the skills effect the areas I want to play and the L33t mentality that goes with it.
Stolen Souls
It brings me a lot of pain to say. Yes...I feel I payed to much for GW:EN. I feel that maybe half of the price I payed would justify getting the content I got. HoM was a letdown, armor was a letdown, and the grind....huge letdown. Bringing one character through was ok...bringing the others through, well...I have no intention to. I just feel there's no point.
That said, I realize it was my choice to buy it. I saw the leaked pics of the armor weeks before release...but decided to have faith. I realize I can't just give it back and say "Gimme my money back, I'm disappointed with it". However, if in the future any more expansions are created (which I doubt), I won't be buying them. lord dragon
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Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
It brings me a lot of pain to say. Yes...I feel I payed to much for GW:EN. I feel that maybe half of the price I payed would justify getting the content I got. HoM was a letdown, armor was a letdown, and the grind....huge letdown. Bringing one character through was ok...bringing the others through, well...I have no intention to. I just feel there's no point.
That said, I realize it was my choice to buy it. I saw the leaked pics of the armor weeks before release...but decided to have faith. I realize I can't just give it back and say "Gimme my money back, I'm disappointed with it". However, if in the future any more expansions are created (which I doubt), I won't be buying them. Agreed. Please remember.... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
Sasuke The Betrayer
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Originally Posted by lord dragon
Agreed.
Please remember.... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me. I'm getting deeply annoyed at your spamming. You say "Agreed" and then spam that shit over and over. We get it. lord dragon
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Originally Posted by Sasuke The Betrayer
I'm getting deeply annoyed at your spamming. You say "Agreed" and then spam that shit over and over. We get it.
I am not spamming. This is my signature. It is on all my posts.
Please remember... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
Nevin
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Originally Posted by The Great Al
St. Anger was good compared to most of the music released in 2003, but it was still a bad album. (this coming from a huge metallica fan).
We're not talking about whether or not this is 'relatively' expensive. Most FPSs are overpriced IMO, but an RPG such has this has limitless possibilities, and for some reason they didn't tap into that potential. I agree completely, I was gunna type my own response but this did fine. lord dragon
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Originally Posted by Pompeyfan
Comparing to Bioshock it looks OK, but what about if you compare it to £25 Neverwinter Nights 2? Dosen't look as good then does it? Plus there's so much solo stuff now I might as well play an offline game with more depth and no repetative grind.
Think you may be right.
Please remember... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me. myword
to be honest, having finished GWEN i'd rather not have bought it. oh well
reskinning dungeon textures + changing monsters + giving them new names = omg more dungeons!! the impression i get is that some areas are done well, but the rest seemed incredibly rushed and shoddily done for what i paid for it, i could have gotten a single player RPG that would probably provide more game time and replayability value
blue.rellik
I love Eye of the North
Jora alone made it worth the $50 I forked out acidic
Eotn got some good fapping material, but i think nightfall was good, but factions and prophecies are not too shabby either
Lord Natural
Definitely overpriced given its content (or lackthereof). To make matters worse, what content there is, is locked away by infuriating title requirements. Why am I paying for a game to annoy me? What's the point of making me GRIND for hours with every char just to get some stupid glasses?
I'd be far less critical of the game (even given its lack of content) if it weren't annoying me needlessly. New heroes are great, but since we can only play with 3 anyway, they're pointless. New armors and weapons are great (the 25% which aren't re-skins), but what's the point of them if I'm having a miserable time in getting them? Is it too much to ask for me to be able to buy some damn sunglasses for my pve chars without grinding a 20 hour title x 8? Theory: By forcing you to play (and GRIND out these stupid titles), they think that will justify overpricing their game.
lakatz
Now that I've spent several hours in the game this weekend, I can say without hesitation that GW:EN is well worth the money I paid. The environments I've seen so far are exquisite (I haven't even gotten to the Charr lands yet)... a lot of work went into them by a lot of very talented artists. The quests and mini-games are clever, imaginative and often humorous.
The only armor I really like is the Norn ranger (that I'm wearing in my new avatar), but so what. I like armors for the other classes in one or the others of the three campaigns, and that works just fine for me. I love all the new headgear though...great new addition. I'm having a lot of fun and enjoyment in GW:EN. I'm very happy with my purchase. Cobalt
Well considering we were deliberately deceived during the pre-release with high drop rates then get the full game and be lucky to even get a bag of coins does not bode well for the expansions worth or Anets integrity.
genofreek
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Originally Posted by Cobalt
Well considering we were deliberately deceived during the pre-release with high drop rates then get the full game and be lucky to even get a bag of coins does not bode well for the expansions worth or Anets integrity.
Come on, you HAD to know that was too good to be true. I remember running through the preview picking up craploads of treasure and going "Yeah, THIS ain't gonna last."
I'm more peeved about the same thing most players seem to be -- the massive armor letdown.
Horuku
I was lucky my old computer died before GW:EN hit the shelves so I was able to stay away from shelling out 35 precious dollars. From what I've heard / seen from the preview weekend, its more of the same...and that same means more of the same old CRAP.
Grinding? What a waste. If I wanted to grind I'd play a game where it matters a tiny bit more a la WoW. Because PvE in GW is pointless. Once you get max AL armor, you're at the peak of your power. The only reason to keep playing is because you enjoy repetitive grinding. Why don't you go work at McDonalds for 8 hours instead? That's the reason a game like Bioshock is 50$. Because it varies. You can't even call GW:EN an expansion. It added NOTHING to PvP, nothing innovative / new (hello reskins) to PvE, so then why pay for it? I'll consider purchasing it when it drops to 20$. I can live without the "Pay 30$ for bonus missions". Gattocheese
People have to remember that what you enjoy about guild wars maybe different than other people. I personally wanted to have new armor, weapons, bosses, monsters and alot of end game content for replayability. But what i paid for was old armor, a few new weapons, reskined bosses and monsters, and no end game content after the story and dungeons. I beat the game in 2 hours, yes 2 hours. I mastered most dungeons just to get the occasional diamond, gemstone, or green brute sword (yuck) from a chest. Now there is nothing i really want to do in GWEN. So for me, for my personal interests, it wasnt worth the money, way too expensive. I may have shelled out $20 for it. But i dont buy expansion packs to look at the nice scenary.
lord dragon
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Originally Posted by genofreek
Come on, you HAD to know that was too good to be true. I remember running through the preview picking up craploads of treasure and going "Yeah, THIS ain't gonna last."
I'm more peeved about the same thing most players seem to be -- the massive armor letdown. For me, it is not armor. Please remember... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me. |
