PvP is slowly dying
Agriel
I remember when I purchased Guild Wars about 2 years ago PvP was a huge part of the game. GvG used to be very competitive, and everyone knew the names of the top guilds. There used to be more incentives to play PvP such as $100,000 tournaments. I am not an avid PvP player myself but I have seen the effects. I have played a large amount of HA and have played against all the builds there have ever been- from IWAY to the currently LEGOWAY. Taking the favor of the gods out of Heroes Ascent has made PvP less desirable. The titles are hard to accomplish, and there are a select few people who win all the time in HA- guilds like [GANK] currently. In the GvG side, many of the top players are quitting Guild Wars- each expansion has slowly ruined PvP- Eye of the North especially. Eye of the North has a huge number of great features such as Polymock, PvE only skills, new titles, and a great environment. Arena-net has done an amazing job at the PvE aspect of the game, however..they have forgotten about PvP during the time this has happened. I love all the campaigns, and have had a great deal of fun playing them- as I will continue to do. Can we expect and updates to PvP now that all the campaigns have been released? Many posts in guru, and my Guild's forums have complained about how PvP is dying, heroes in PvP, etc etc. What can be done?
Leonhart
Just wondering what you would suggest to improve the life of PvP? I mean what is there that can MAJORLY improve the life of PvP?
Spazzer
"from IWAY", haha.
Anyway, it's been dead for a long time now.
Anyway, it's been dead for a long time now.
Gigashadow
I miss the meta around the time of gale warriors, well over a year ago, those were fun times.
Aera
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Originally Posted by Leonhart
Just wondering what you would suggest to improve the life of PvP? I mean what is there that can MAJORLY improve the life of PvP?
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Oh and brains will help too. Everytime I see the same people playing the same lame shit over and over, I die a little inside. Those are the type of builds that are no fun to play against, nor to play. And as far as I know, that's what games are about.
Those builds would be fun to play against, if there was more skill balance.
Skuld
PvP died ages ago, you just didn't notice.
Lord Xeshm
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Originally Posted by Agriel
Taking the favor of the gods out of Heroes Ascent has made PvP less desirable.
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Croco Clouds
Put Polymock PvP may resurrect the current condition of PvP
![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Ec]-[oMaN
Expansions released with skills unbalanced for months at a time, newly introduced professions and lack of ats with k+5 ladder for over a year killed GW PVP. Not to mention the shaby PVP editions cost and still the need to unlock didn't help whats so ever. Maybe some advertising campaigns and a PVP pack (total UAX) for cheap might help.
Sarevok Thordin
The problem with some PvP is that people just copy others builds and play too defensively. Now you get battles that are just the same old bars mixed in with some other same old bars.
PvP won't likely be improved till some of the long running builds get a shake up, like Shock is given the 50% KD failure thing or something. Right now everyone just either wiki's a build, or goes to observer mode.
PvP won't likely be improved till some of the long running builds get a shake up, like Shock is given the 50% KD failure thing or something. Right now everyone just either wiki's a build, or goes to observer mode.
Vanquisher
AT's are not a good system in this game.
Guild Wars as a competitive game lost its better players long before EotN.
The best thing that ever happened to competitive PvP was taken out to protect PvE, clearly highlighting ArenaNets priorities (to be fair though, it wouldn't have been a hard decision - satisfy 90%, or 10%).
Guild Wars as a competitive game lost its better players long before EotN.
The best thing that ever happened to competitive PvP was taken out to protect PvE, clearly highlighting ArenaNets priorities (to be fair though, it wouldn't have been a hard decision - satisfy 90%, or 10%).
GloryFox
I'm sorry to say this but ANET's introduction of rank e-motes went a long way to kill off PvP. They make a great game but fail in understanding player psychology.
This is not a rant on PvP just a fact.
Any game where the main player base discriminates against new players looses new potential customers. Not a rant just a fact. Without the current player base friendly to the replacement generation the area of PvP will continue a steadily decline. Get rid of discrimination via rank e-motes get rid of your decline. Meanwhile areas such as AB and Aspenwood will only increase in numbers. These areas are friendly to both new players and old players alike.
This is not a rant on PvP just a fact.
Any game where the main player base discriminates against new players looses new potential customers. Not a rant just a fact. Without the current player base friendly to the replacement generation the area of PvP will continue a steadily decline. Get rid of discrimination via rank e-motes get rid of your decline. Meanwhile areas such as AB and Aspenwood will only increase in numbers. These areas are friendly to both new players and old players alike.
Vanquisher
Having a way to distinguish between older, more experienced players, and those who won't know what to do, is not a bad thing.
Before rank emotes there were rank sticks. It's not like anything changed that much.
Before rank emotes there were rank sticks. It's not like anything changed that much.
Lagg
Let me know when it's completely dead so I can start afk'ing Halls for my phoenix.
ANTICANCER
uhm pvp sux and skill balances that favor pvp screw up many pve peoples
Shuuda
Hardly, since PvE is pretty easy, you don't need super complex builds to win PvE in general.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
Having a way to distinguish between older, more experienced players, and those who won't know what to do, is not a bad thing.
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I hope PvP finishes dying sometime soon. Except AB which still appears to be going strong, and, in all honesty, PvP < AB.
haggus71
In any game, if it's around long enough, you will get the ones who regularly own the higher levels. They are the ones there since the beginning, or are just more skilled than others. Why shouldn't they have a trophy for achievement? I know it's extreme, but would you deny Federer the Open Cup just so the other players weren't shown up? Besides, I think they might have put titles and emotes in there to KEEP people interested in PvP: one more carrot to encourage you to play more of it.
They said in the beginning that the pve world was just supposed to be background story and a way to unlock weapons/skills for pvp. Thing is, they did such a good job with the "back story", plus the fact they didn't charge a monthly fee, that they garnered legions of players that loved the pve side. In Factions I think they tried to get the pvp types into pvp by introducing Ft Aspenwood and faction farming. They finally gave up on the pvp side when Nightfall came out. As said above, I would, too, if it came down to 90% vs 10%, though I might say it's more 95%+, and even more if you just count those who are primarily pvp players.
The big thing is, Anet realized that you can't have the pvp and pve sides connected when pve is such a dominant population compared to PvP. Hence, the announcement by Jeff Strain in a video of separation of PvP from PvE in GW2. To really give both sides justice, you can't be worrying all the time about, "so, if I nerf 'Incoming', what will happen to the skill in PvE?", or "What new skills can I make for the PvE guys so they can enjoy the game on their side more?" This will give them a way to have people dedicated to each aspect of the game, and be able to offer more to PvP and PvE.
So yeah, pvp is slowing down a bit, but you can't really blame them. You do what keeps your game going in the long run, and that means sometimes shifting your "vision" a bit. Though a PvP Dwarven Boxing and Polymok would have been perfect. An all new answer to "1v1 me, bitch!"
Zahr, just because you don't go for that kind of title, doesn't mean you should sheist on those that are proud of that achievement. And....AB IS a form of PvP.
They said in the beginning that the pve world was just supposed to be background story and a way to unlock weapons/skills for pvp. Thing is, they did such a good job with the "back story", plus the fact they didn't charge a monthly fee, that they garnered legions of players that loved the pve side. In Factions I think they tried to get the pvp types into pvp by introducing Ft Aspenwood and faction farming. They finally gave up on the pvp side when Nightfall came out. As said above, I would, too, if it came down to 90% vs 10%, though I might say it's more 95%+, and even more if you just count those who are primarily pvp players.
The big thing is, Anet realized that you can't have the pvp and pve sides connected when pve is such a dominant population compared to PvP. Hence, the announcement by Jeff Strain in a video of separation of PvP from PvE in GW2. To really give both sides justice, you can't be worrying all the time about, "so, if I nerf 'Incoming', what will happen to the skill in PvE?", or "What new skills can I make for the PvE guys so they can enjoy the game on their side more?" This will give them a way to have people dedicated to each aspect of the game, and be able to offer more to PvP and PvE.
So yeah, pvp is slowing down a bit, but you can't really blame them. You do what keeps your game going in the long run, and that means sometimes shifting your "vision" a bit. Though a PvP Dwarven Boxing and Polymok would have been perfect. An all new answer to "1v1 me, bitch!"
Zahr, just because you don't go for that kind of title, doesn't mean you should sheist on those that are proud of that achievement. And....AB IS a form of PvP.
just call me jimmy
The person who created the original Searing Flame and Glowing Gaze skills destroyed PVP. That person if still around should be fired and never allowed to design for another video game 
Just wanted to add some fun to the post
Just wanted to add some fun to the post
HawkofStorms
Yeah, HA has been a cespool for some time now. It hasn't been good since it bacame HA and stoped being Tombes.
Anyway, doesn't really matter. It isn't "dying." Its been like this for a while now. "Dying" implies that it is actually getting worse. Right now, its the same stagent stuff that its been.
Anyway, doesn't really matter. It isn't "dying." Its been like this for a while now. "Dying" implies that it is actually getting worse. Right now, its the same stagent stuff that its been.
Brett Kuntz
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Originally Posted by GloryFox
I'm sorry to say this but ANET's introduction of rank e-motes went a long way to kill off PvP. They make a great game but fail in understanding player psychology.
This is not a rant on PvP just a fact. |
You can't fix or rejuvinate PvP. Once PvP is dead, it's dead for good. No game in history has come back from dead PvP, though many companies have tried through many different types of marketing promo's, it just doesn't work. And with GW2 on the horizon, GW PvP is really dead.
And as a side note, only noobs think rank emote prevented them from good PvP. Anyone with half a brain could easily get into good tomb/gvg groups. The deciding factor was always attitude, not rank emote. People who complained about rank emotes also have bad attitudes, so no one wants to play with you. Also, people who complain about lack of emote are also using that as their excuse for being a noob. I never ever had any problem playing with good players, from when I was a nobody to when I was a somebody. There were plenty of times I logged onto my additional accounts and could talk my way into tombs groups, with no rank emote, few unlocked skills, no guild, and no one knowing who I was. In conclusion, if you think rank emote was holding you back, you're an idiot, and you were holding yourself back.
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by Vanquisher
The best thing that ever happened to competitive PvP was taken out to protect PvE, clearly highlighting ArenaNets priorities (to be fair though, it wouldn't have been a hard decision - satisfy 90%, or 10%).
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Just curious, as I haven't see that point before.
Brett Kuntz
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
What was that, exactly? Was it heroes or exclusive weapon skins?
Just curious, as I haven't see that point before. |
myword
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
The problem with some PvP is that people just copy others builds and play too defensively. Now you get battles that are just the same old bars mixed in with some other same old bars.
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pre-factions everyone was generally running the same build and the game was probably the most fun then
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Having a way to distinguish between people who do HA and those who learned PvP in other areas is NOT a good thing because it lends the illusion that we aren't as good at PvP. I, for example, do RA but I never stay for the necessary consecutive matches to gain rank. Even in a winning streak I leave after the first few rounds because I just don't like too many consecutive matches in a row.
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Andrew Patrick
We are always interested in suggestions to improve any aspect of the game, PvP included. You can always post on my wiki talk page, or take part in some of the discussions in the PvP section of this, or other forums.
I do not think PvP is dead, or even dying. Could it be doing better? Yes. Would I like it to be doing better? Yes, I don't think there is anyone here who wouldn't like to see more players taking part in PvP. But there are still quite a few players who PvP daily, and new players continue to join. If you think there are ways to bring more players into the PvP side of the game, please share them. There are a number of discussions on that very topic and they are full of great ideas.
If you have constructive comments, concerns, or suggestions, please visit the PvP section of this forum (or wherever the mods want it really, I don't know where you would prefer it) or post on my talk page: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_Patrick
I do not think PvP is dead, or even dying. Could it be doing better? Yes. Would I like it to be doing better? Yes, I don't think there is anyone here who wouldn't like to see more players taking part in PvP. But there are still quite a few players who PvP daily, and new players continue to join. If you think there are ways to bring more players into the PvP side of the game, please share them. There are a number of discussions on that very topic and they are full of great ideas.
If you have constructive comments, concerns, or suggestions, please visit the PvP section of this forum (or wherever the mods want it really, I don't know where you would prefer it) or post on my talk page: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_talk:Andrew_Patrick
lemming
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Having a way to distinguish between people who do HA and those who learned PvP in other areas is NOT a good thing because it lends the illusion that we aren't as good at PvP. I, for example, do RA but I never stay for the necessary consecutive matches to gain rank. Even in a winning streak I leave after the first few rounds because I just don't like too many consecutive matches in a row.
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I don't know what killed PvP, but I'm inclined to believe that multiple post-NF degenerate metagames (SF, Grenth, hexes) didn't help it.
haggus71
If you give everyone the same weapon, it is left to the skill of the fighter to decide who wins. A 'build' in on a shitty player's bar won't make him a great player.
"Improvise...adapt....overcome."
-Sgt Tom Highway
"Improvise...adapt....overcome."
-Sgt Tom Highway
kade
Basically too many counters to things were introduced imo. What used to be a "Rock, Paper, Scissors" became "Rock, Paper, Scissors, Gun, Dynamite, etc, etc, etc" There are now so many counters to every build that even a good team can get rolled by a much less experienced team with the proper counter. Since there are so many more counters, this has become much more frequent.
Also A-net introduced heroes...for what reason I will never really understand...
These days HA requires more skill to be good, but somehow requires less skill to be average I believe.
Also A-net introduced heroes...for what reason I will never really understand...
These days HA requires more skill to be good, but somehow requires less skill to be average I believe.
prism2525
Ok, so this is thread number.... damn I lost count.
Diddy bow
PvP is dead because creativity went out the window and it went from competition to grind.
Drinky
To be RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing honest, whats really sad is that Anet doesnt nerf shit, nerf all metas, encourange balanced. Surely there are nerfs, big once, but they happen with large intervals between, take the Rampage As One shit, thats like all going on in HA, nerf the shit out of that. Dont let HA be about grinding UW, which its pretty much been since the first IWAY-player avanged his pet.
People are even using Rampage As One-way in GvG farming the low rated guilds to get a decent rank. Its not fun to play, not fun to run into, goes for both HA and GvG, its all about grinding rating/fame.
Fix RA, you been talking about it for months, but what has been done? Surley you are working on ways to "make it better for everyone" but tbh, it sucks as it is, loosing on 9th win 5 times a night makes you bitter. But good job on acctully working on improvement.
Removing favor was just a wierd move, you wanted to divide favor equally, well, that doesnt excally encourage a group of players to go HA to get favor (because thats kinda how it was suppose to be wasnt it? Alot of PvP and some PvE). When i bought this game i thought it was all about PvP with some PvE, now its the opposite. Good job.
- Bring back lvl 20 areanas into PvE, so that not so experiensed ppl can run there, try to get ppl in low level arenas to understand that "sync enter" and leave if you dont can go 1vs1 vs the dude you think your better than (seen in NF, Ascalon Arena, Shiverpeaks). If you make PvErs understand whats a bad bar, and why, maybe people wouldnt leave so much in RA.
- Remove heroes completely, they do not, and will never, belong in PvP.
- 10 consec for 1 glad point, takes about an hour, loosing on 55 min. That sux, be gone.
- Heroes in GvG? No, herobattles.
- Fix back favor.
- Remove HoH drops from GW:EN, really, wtf is up with that?
Fix it and we might have something decent.
People are even using Rampage As One-way in GvG farming the low rated guilds to get a decent rank. Its not fun to play, not fun to run into, goes for both HA and GvG, its all about grinding rating/fame.
Fix RA, you been talking about it for months, but what has been done? Surley you are working on ways to "make it better for everyone" but tbh, it sucks as it is, loosing on 9th win 5 times a night makes you bitter. But good job on acctully working on improvement.
Removing favor was just a wierd move, you wanted to divide favor equally, well, that doesnt excally encourage a group of players to go HA to get favor (because thats kinda how it was suppose to be wasnt it? Alot of PvP and some PvE). When i bought this game i thought it was all about PvP with some PvE, now its the opposite. Good job.
- Bring back lvl 20 areanas into PvE, so that not so experiensed ppl can run there, try to get ppl in low level arenas to understand that "sync enter" and leave if you dont can go 1vs1 vs the dude you think your better than (seen in NF, Ascalon Arena, Shiverpeaks). If you make PvErs understand whats a bad bar, and why, maybe people wouldnt leave so much in RA.
- Remove heroes completely, they do not, and will never, belong in PvP.
- 10 consec for 1 glad point, takes about an hour, loosing on 55 min. That sux, be gone.
- Heroes in GvG? No, herobattles.
- Fix back favor.
- Remove HoH drops from GW:EN, really, wtf is up with that?
Fix it and we might have something decent.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by haggus71
AB IS a form of PvP.
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Diddy bow
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Originally Posted by Drinky
- Heroes in GvG? No, herobattles. |
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Vanquisher
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Having a way to distinguish between people who do HA and those who learned PvP in other areas is NOT a good thing because it lends the illusion that we aren't as good at PvP. I, for example, do RA but I never stay for the necessary consecutive matches to gain rank. Even in a winning streak I leave after the first few rounds because I just don't like too many consecutive matches in a row.
I hope PvP finishes dying sometime soon. Except AB which still appears to be going strong, and, in all honesty, PvP < AB. |
Age
PvP maybe dead or on life support for the once HardCore guilds and players but it is still going.The guilds or players playing it now are a mix of pve giving pvp a try.I gave up when Iway came to town in the Halls.I think if you turned it into an offensive it might be interesting that would mean more melee.That is not enough to bring back the hardcores.
I may go back and get my rank emote if The Halls quits being like a CooP mission and players rage quit when there is a wipe.That is where the game came together when the Halls were at the TomPs and playing in coop missions.This meant being cooperation in the 3 missions in the Crystal Desert in order to play in the Halls effectively.PvE was the training ground for PvP.It did stop being that when Factions came out and the faster learning curve and timed missions.
I may go back and get my rank emote if The Halls quits being like a CooP mission and players rage quit when there is a wipe.That is where the game came together when the Halls were at the TomPs and playing in coop missions.This meant being cooperation in the 3 missions in the Crystal Desert in order to play in the Halls effectively.PvE was the training ground for PvP.It did stop being that when Factions came out and the faster learning curve and timed missions.
Kaane
Honestly I've never seen the point of PvP in GuildWars. This coming from a pirate/griefer in Eve Online (and soon, Pirates of the Burning Sea). I like PvP where there is actual risk involved... and also where I can kill you and take your stuff.
Guild Wars? I play Guild Wars for missions, storyline, dungeon runs, and pretty armor. Not for PvP.
Guild Wars? I play Guild Wars for missions, storyline, dungeon runs, and pretty armor. Not for PvP.
Brett Kuntz
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Originally Posted by Kaane
Honestly I've never seen the point of PvP in GuildWars. This coming from a pirate/griefer in Eve Online (and soon, Pirates of the Burning Sea). I like PvP where there is actual risk involved... and also where I can kill you and take your stuff.
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Redfeather1975
PvP needs matrix bullet time effects.
And lots of explosions.
Also cool announcer voices would be nice. Such as...
'C-c-c-combo breakerrrrrrr'.
And lots of explosions.
Also cool announcer voices would be nice. Such as...
'C-c-c-combo breakerrrrrrr'.
Redfeather1975
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Originally Posted by Kaane
Honestly I've never seen the point of PvP in GuildWars. This coming from a pirate/griefer in Eve Online (and soon, Pirates of the Burning Sea). I like PvP where there is actual risk involved... and also where I can kill you and take your stuff.
Guild Wars? I play Guild Wars for missions, storyline, dungeon runs, and pretty armor. Not for PvP. |
That's grind to overpower others and whomever has the most time to invest has the greatest advantage.
We got enough of those types of online rpg PvP games.
Winterclaw
IMO it's a ton of things that killed PvP. One thing doesn't usually wreck something like this but a string of things going wrong.