If something's going wrong, then you may want to see if you're doing anything wrong before claiming bad game mechanics - "always blame yourself first".
Badness is subjective in any case. It isn't so much that one or other is bad... so much as that each is not suited to the other. Granted... it is easier in most cases to change myself to suit the environment rather than change the environment to suit me.... but sometimes the environment is of a thoroughly annoying variety that I'd rather just not deal with in any way, shape or form.
It reminds me of the first time I encountered Ice Imps in the southern shiverpeaks.
I learnt to deal with them (i.e. shadowstep to them and don't cast spells in Maelstrom) .... but I still don't like the damned things and take no pleasure in encountering them, even if I beat them easily. I still have to go through them to beat Prophecies though... and the same for GW:EN to some extent.
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It does make the encounters much more interesting, though.
The first time, yes.
Not so much the second time.
By the third time it has become tiresome.... and after that I'm thoroughly sick of them.
Oddly enough... I don't have any issue beating many identical mobs as that implies progress.... but having to fight EXACTLY the same mob over and over again due to repeated failure really does bug me.
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You may need to work on the flagging, then. It makes things a hell of a lot easier when you can flag your H/H's effeciently. It does take some practice though, I remember always forgetting to unflag them a lot of times, but in the end it saves me a whipe.
Some areas require flagging more than others.
Some areas are more difficult to flag in than others.
That corridor area on level 3 of Shards of Orr was high on both of the above... annoyingly enough.
Yes... I need more work, but I also need someone to teach me how to do it properly, otherwise I'll just keep doing it wrong (since it only rarely seems to be needed at all).
18 Sep 2007 at 13:24 - 226
Its a bad dungeon that isn't any fun, I don't know why anyone would defend this dungeon. Its not hard because Anet gave the mobs a good combo, its because their spike damage is outrageous. 200+ per aftershock means that my necro dies before standing from the inital shock usually. Sure everyone suggests prot spirit spam, but whats the point of strategy if it is always overturned by lame tactics like prot spirit?
18 Sep 2007 at 13:43 - 227
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Originally Posted by flclempire
Its a bad dungeon that isn't any fun, I don't know why anyone would defend this dungeon. Its not hard because Anet gave the mobs a good combo, its because their spike damage is outrageous. 200+ per aftershock means that my necro dies before standing from the inital shock usually. Sure everyone suggests prot spirit spam, but whats the point of strategy if it is always overturned by lame tactics like prot spirit?
The best way to beat a Lame Strategy can be with another Lame Strategy though. When I did Shards of Orr I controlled Me, Sousuke and Ogden, whilst a guildie with 3 heroes waited behind. I had me and Sousuke cast Dragon's Stomp at the same time, and a second into casting have Ogden cast Signet of Judgment. It caused an entire group of undead to be left with about one third health and could be easily picked of by a couple of nicely places AoEs from the "rear support team".
Coordinated mass damage spike on a nice tight mob > Nice tight mob's lame blind tactics.
18 Sep 2007 at 13:56 - 228
To be fair it sounds to me like the OP is having trouble maximising his groups support of his own build. It also sounds to me that he is using his assassin as a kind of mini warrior.
Ice Spikes, Ice Prison, Frozen Burst, Barbed Trap, Ward against Foes, Maelstrom, Mantra of Concentration, Glyph of Renewal, Arcane Echo, Shroud of Silence, Well of Silence, Restore Condition, Mend Condition, Plague Touch, "Cant Touch This", is a combination of skills that spread throughout the party and used wisely in conjuction with an assassin playing as an assassin should easilly result in an opportunity for a swift and completed kill on each foe over a period of time.
Bringing a Water Elementalist alone out of this combination should grant you the space and time to execute an isolated foe.
On top of this I would recommend bringing a counter balance general attack strategy to your own. An example would be degeneration hexes and conditions that your assassin does not use, spread widely around the enemy, giving the assassin himself even less of a job when it comes to springing that final assassination burst.
Should you die, a quick "Well of Silence", combined to a quick rez and a fast activation of the assassination spike support skills would make it even harder for the foe to counter you.
18 Sep 2007 at 14:09 - 229
^He did the dungeon, stop giving him advice. lol
Anyway I found the boss to be rather hard after the update, still we did beat him thanks to that +10% morale stone. Anyone has a good tactic for fighting him and his Rt spiker gang?
18 Sep 2007 at 14:21 - 230
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Originally Posted by Etta
^He did the dungeon, stop giving him advice. lol
Anyway I found the boss to be rather hard after the update, still we did beat him thanks to that +10% morale stone. Anyone has a good tactic for fighting him and his Rt spiker gang?
With enough partywipes you can get him to move closer and closer to the res shrine, which is miles away... 
Our tactic was to try to trap all his little spawning buddies somwhere...we managed to keep them hovering around the fire trap at the entrance - then - a couple of AoEs mixed with them flitting in and out of the fire trap finished both the Rits and the Rangers...
18 Sep 2007 at 14:55 - 231
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Originally Posted by flclempire
Its a bad dungeon that isn't any fun, I don't know why anyone would defend this dungeon. Its not hard because Anet gave the mobs a good combo, its because their spike damage is outrageous. 200+ per aftershock means that my necro dies before standing from the inital shock usually. Sure everyone suggests prot spirit spam, but whats the point of strategy if it is always overturned by lame tactics like prot spirit?
Sorry, but if your calling Prot Spirit a lame tactic your going to fail an awful lot in high end PvE.
18 Sep 2007 at 15:13 - 232
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Originally Posted by Etta
^He did the dungeon, stop giving him advice. lol
Anyway I found the boss to be rather hard after the update, still we did beat him thanks to that +10% morale stone. Anyone has a good tactic for fighting him and his Rt spiker gang?
#1. Lure him away from his friends. Sometimes he spawns more around him when he transforms and sometimes he doesn't... but he is generally less risky when on his own (and a lot easier to lure than his friends, so I found). I wasn't paying attention enough to know whether the poison traps / fire traps did anything to him, but that is also worth a try.
#2. SV, SS, GB. The necro boss-killer trinity. Spoil Victor and Spiteful Spirit on that fetcher in either form is the easiest way to do major damage to him. Throw in Pain Inverter too if you like... Grenth's Balance if used correctly will seriously chunk his health (best used on a W/N). I was personally SVing him as a sin and it still did enough damage to seriously hurt him. I personally finished him off with Angorodon's Gaze.
#3. Water Elementalists are useful for more than just Ward Against Harm. Deep Freeze + Maelstrom = caster-mob shut. The boss might be quick enough to cast through it sometimes but it should impede him as well if you can keep him in it.
Now... this might seem like a strange idea..... but from my Fort Aspenwood experience, I've learnt that a painfully cheap-arse way to finish off nasty enemies is with really long-lasting degen.
If you can go primary or secondary Mesmer... with plenty of Inspiration and Illusion...
[skill]Mantra of Persistence[/skill][skill]Conjure Phantasm[/skill][skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill][skill]Conjure Nightmare[/skill]
Throw in [skill]Migraine[/skill] too if you like.
If you can get off at least Conjure Nightmare and one of either of those other two..... under Mantra of Persistance.... even the boss should still be degenning when you resurrect.
I'm not sure if it keeps the Soul of Fendi-Nin degenning when ordinary Fendi-Nin comes back (in game mechanic terms the two entities spawn each other but exist separately) .... but I doubt it.
18 Sep 2007 at 15:21 - 233
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Originally Posted by Saphatorael
I just put Draw Conditions on my Necro or Ele, problem solved.
Anyone else feel that the premise of this thread is reducible to 'OMG THESE MONSTERS BLIND ME ANET U SUCK'?
Well, I'm sorry, but Anet didn't want to give you an easy time everywhere.
So, Soticoto, have you bothered reading this yet?
Tried adapting?
It tends to make the dungeons easier.
I myself always have a free slot on my sin's bar, and I bring Mending Touch or Remove Hex, depending on the area.
You should try it, these kinds of threads won't provide any solutions.
/lock, please
18 Sep 2007 at 15:38 - 234
From hereafter, whenever I refer to "build", I refer to not your own character's build, but the builds of everyone else, as well.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
That isn't the point. The point is that it greatly inhibits functionality in either context. Would it have made it any more clear if I'd said "cut arms off" rather than "stab eyes out"... since the issue is hitting things more than actually seeing?
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The most accurate way to put it is that you're using the wrong puzzle piece. While it may not be what you're comfortable with doing, you can always try something else.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Then I take it Guild Wars has never challenged you enough for the execution to make a difference. There is always a right way and a wrong way to use a build... and many ways inbetween. Likewise there is good positioning and bad positioning... Luring versus Leeroying.... and knowing when it is best to fight and when it is best to kite.
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Right and wrong builds are determined by the product. If you take a build and fight an enemy mob and come out victorious, your build works. If you went against the same mob but whiped, you need to put together a different build. If you killed the enemy, but had a few deaths or had some trouble keeping the overall health of the party up, you may want to tune your build up a bit.
While there are a few things that you can do that will make the fight easier , like you said pulling a mob, there isn't much else to the execution of the battle. Then again, there's never been much execution in rock, paper, scissors.
And I don't really think about kiting anymore, baddies in Hard Mode can run pretty fast.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
The first time, yes.
Not so much the second time.
By the third time it has become tiresome.... and after that I'm thoroughly sick of them.
Oddly enough... I don't have any issue beating many identical mobs as that implies progress.... but having to fight EXACTLY the same mob over and over again due to repeated failure really does bug me.
But why is it you keep failing against the same mob over and over? By the third time you should know that you need to have drastically changed the build of the team. If you keep on failing, then you may need to do some deeper research (sorry if that annoys you, I hate saying it too. It's like saying "you should study harder"), and not just on how you're playing, what you're playing with, etc., but the encounters you're having trouble with, as well.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Yes... I need more work, but I also need someone to teach me how to do it properly, otherwise I'll just keep doing it wrong (since it only rarely seems to be needed at all).
Here are a few of my tips to help you out:
1. Keep the flag/unflag keys close to your movement (WSAD) keys: I have mine set to V for flag and X for unflag, it makes it really easy to flag them on the go.
2. After killing a mob and while you're regenerating your health, be sure to unflag them: Not much compares to the annoyance of heading to fight a mob, only to see that you forgot to unflag your heroes and henchies from 300 yards away.
3. Practice: Not much else to say about that.
Keep in mind that these tips vary between professions. It'll probably be the most basic if you're a warrior. Otherwise, it's not a bad idea to toss in your warrior hero into the fray first.
18 Sep 2007 at 16:05 - 235
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
The most accurate way to put it is that you're using the wrong puzzle piece. While it may not be what you're comfortable with doing, you can always try something else.
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We were talking about challenge there... weren't we? In which case what you just said doesn't translate to anything in context... at least not to me.
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Right and wrong builds are determined by the product. If you take a build and fight an enemy mob and come out victorious, your build works. If you went against the same mob but whiped, you need to put together a different build. If you killed the enemy, but had a few deaths or had some trouble keeping the overall health of the party up, you may want to tune your build up a bit.
While there are a few things that you can do that will make the fight easier , like you said pulling a mob, there isn't much else to the execution of the battle. Then again, there's never been much execution in rock, paper, scissors.
And I don't really think about kiting anymore, baddies in Hard Mode can run pretty fast.
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