Eyeless of the North - Dungeon Blind-Fest
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I don't deal well with metaphor. Consider this aspect of the conversation dropped by proxy.
Quote: Why should some encounters be impossible to beat? It is in this sense that Guild Wars PvE is balanced: There is a counter to every single build, monster, boss and dungeon. Selective words there...
Assuming an average level of skill... of the average player, that is.... the very highest echelons of the game (Hard Mode Domain of Anguish) is rendered unbeatable even with the perfect build.... if for no other reason than that simply spamming 1-8 won't cut it.
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I'm guessing you're just not familiar with the full range of people with different physical and mental abilities out there.... *Shrugs*
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If they don't know what they're up against or what they using, then yeah they'll lose. Given the fact that numerous people have been able to vanquish Hard Mode DoA, it's safe to say that it's very possible to beat. I'm not sure where you're going here.|
You may want to be a little more open-minded to that, then. This is pretty much how a lot of strategy games are: Test it out, learn from it. That's probably the only similarity that PvE has with PvP.
Open-mindedness has little to do with it. It is as instinctive a response as you pulling your hand away from an open pain. I mean sure... you can resist it, or even train yourself to ignore it... but make one mistake and it will all crumble back into place because that very thing is hard-wired to the brain. Quote:
My point was that even if your character is disabled in one aspect, you should see what else you can do to aid/benefit the party. I've already said the same thing quite a few times in this thread what I've done with my warrior: Give him "You Move like a Dwarf", "Finish Him" (can't get Gash in), and "Disrupting Dagger". These are what I use when I'm blinded, which is some large % of the time. The other % of the time my Rit hero is using Sight Beyond Sight on me.
Quote: Assuming an average level of skill... of the average player, that is.... the very highest echelons of the game (Hard Mode Domain of Anguish) is rendered unbeatable even with the perfect build.... if for no other reason than that simply spamming 1-8 won't cut it. |
Nothing is unbeatable in PvE.
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I'm sorry, but I have yet to see something that takes "skill" in Guild Wars PvE (besides putting together your builds).
Quote: Originally Posted by SotiCoto
I'm guessing you're just not familiar with the full range of people with different physical and mental abilities out there.... *Shrugs*
Are you saying that some people are physically or mentally inept to play this game? If yes, then it's not the game that's the problem. But if not, I have barely any clue what you're saying here.
I might as well round this one down too by saying those people who vanquish Hard Mode DoA are obviously skilled AND experienced. I doubt I could ever do it... personally.
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In Guild Wars? Not really. Again, as I've said, the difficulty lies in putting together a successful build, be it for yourself or for your party. That's just how it is.
I'm sorry, but I have yet to see something that takes "skill" in Guild Wars PvE (besides putting together your builds). NO! Obviously not just "in Guild Wars"... but entirely... full stop. I'm talking about reality and everything else here. If I'm supposed to take what you're saying for granted then there is no such thing as skill anywhere or anywhen under any circumstances in any context.
The word exists though, and it clearly applies to something.
Guild Wars to some extent is influenced by the same player conditions as any other game... or indeed many other activities... and thus if skill can be said to apply to any of them then it applies to Guild Wars. Simple as that.
Since that is the case, I'd probably assume that that party had never gone in there before. They might not even know the difference between a margonite anur vu and a margonite anur ki. Like I said: it takes a fair amount of knowledge of what you're going against and how to kill it if you plan to be successful against it.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
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Don't deal too well with hypothetical scenarios... do you? |
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Open-mindedness has little to do with it. It is as instinctive a response as you pulling your hand away from an open pain. I mean sure... you can resist it, or even train yourself to ignore it... but make one mistake and it will all crumble back into place because that very thing is hard-wired to the brain.
...Okay so you don't like to have to experiment with builds and whatnot? Because that's pretty much Guild Wars in a nutshell. Quote:
Really.... dropped by proxy.
You're still completely missing the point I was trying to make.... .... and additionally, you're lying (or not paying attention to your own words). Sight Beyond Sight : Read the description. Your Rit hero cannot use it on you. Quote: Nothing is unbeatable in PvE. |
I might as well round this one down too by saying those people who vanquish Hard Mode DoA are obviously skilled AND experienced. I doubt I could ever do it... personally.
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I'm sorry, but I have yet to see something that takes "skill" in Guild Wars PvE (besides putting together your builds). NO! Obviously not just "in Guild Wars"... but entirely... full stop. I'm talking about reality and everything else here. If I'm supposed to take what you're saying for granted then there is no such thing as skill anywhere or anywhen under any circumstances in any context.
The word exists though, and it clearly applies to something.
Guild Wars to some extent is influenced by the same player conditions as any other game... or indeed many other activities... and thus if skill can be said to apply to any of them then it applies to Guild Wars. Simple as that.
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Ah thanks, read it wrong.|
Are you saying that some people are physically or mentally inept to play this game? If yes, then it's not the game that's the problem. But if not, I have barely any clue what you're saying here.
That is the extreme example... but basically... yes. Some people are too physically or mentally inept to play it to the same standards as others.... and likewise some are physically and mentally adept enough in certain ways that they can play it above and beyond the norm and get results like no other. Quote:
So that's been on there for no reason?...Well, shit, then I guess that area isn't as blind heavy as I thought.
But anyways, I look back and take another look at your point, and I realize that it explains why you made this thread in the first place. Quote: |
Since that is the case, I'd probably assume that that party had never gone in there before. They might not even know the difference between a margonite anur vu and a margonite anur ki. Like I said: it takes a fair amount of knowledge of what you're going against and how to kill it if you plan to be successful against it.
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If I'm supposed to take what you're saying for granted then there is no such thing as skill anywhere or anywhen under any circumstances in any context.
The word exists though, and it clearly applies to something. Then, where? Where does PvE take skill? What certain aspect of PvE do you need to be *good* at? Clicking on an enemy is not hard, using your skills on him is not hard, show me where this *skill* is shown that is not in creating the build.
This is something I've said repeatedly: The skill is shown in the build. If a person says they're having trouble in an area, what's the first thing someone asks them? "Did you bring such and such skill?" "What build did you take in there?" "Did you make sure that you had an X in your party?" The *skill* is all built around *skills*. This is why Guild Wars is so vastly different from other RPGs, it's not about how hard you swing that sword, not that you know the proper strategy for a boss, but it is what you bring to the fight that determines how good of a player you are, that determines your victory.
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Ah thanks, read it wrong.
Since that is the case, I'd probably assume that that party had never gone in there before. They might not even know the difference between a margonite anur vu and a margonite anur ki. Like I said: it takes a fair amount of knowledge of what you're going against and how to kill it if you plan to be successful against it.
They could have been in there many times, if they really liked failure.... You could assume what you liked, but you already have made your stand on this and pre-judged... so it wouldn't really matter what was actually going on at all. The word exists though, and it clearly applies to something. Then, where? Where does PvE take skill? What certain aspect of PvE do you need to be *good* at? Clicking on an enemy is not hard, using your skills on him is not hard, show me where this *skill* is shown that is not in creating the build.
This is something I've said repeatedly: The skill is shown in the build. If a person says they're having trouble in an area, what's the first thing someone asks them? "Did you bring such and such skill?" "What build did you take in there?" "Did you make sure that you had an X in your party?" The *skill* is all built around *skills*. This is why Guild Wars is so vastly different from other RPGs, it's not about how hard you swing that sword, not that you know the proper strategy for a boss, but it is what you bring to the fight that determines how good of a player you are, that determines your victory.
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If you're so sure of yourself on that one point... then screencap yourself WITH Sight Beyond Sight on... despite neither of YOUR classes being Ritualist. I contest that it cannot be done because Sight Beyond Sight is non-targetted and casts on self only.|
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
It isn't a matter of like.... and it isn't a matter of absolutes. It is a matter of my having an inate tendency hardwired into me to do the same thing over and over again and not like to deviate much from one way of doing things. I will eventually... gradually deviate.... but it isn't easy for me, as comfort comes in pattern and familiarity, while unfamiliarity just stresses me out.
Then Guild Wars doesn't sound too much of a game you'd like. It's all about learning to adapt, how to finetune your builds, and much more. It's best not to become to familiar with a particular build, because it might just find its match one day.
wetsparks
Why is this thread still open? Seriously, the OP has been given more than enough ways to beat that dungeon, I've dont it myself on a Warrior, Ranger, and Paragon and put in my little tid bit on how to do it. I haven't read the last five pages but if it is anything like pages 1-8 and this page, it is just SotiCoto arguing about why something won't work when people keep telling him they did it that way.
ryanryanryan0310
OMFG you need a whole thread to explain this chit!!!!!!!!!
If you suck with hero's learn to play with pugs.!!!!!!! Someone close this chit already!!!! BRING on the CATS pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
But anyways, I look back and take another look at your point, and I realize that it explains why you made this thread in the first place. |
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Since that is the case, I'd probably assume that that party had never gone in there before. They might not even know the difference between a margonite anur vu and a margonite anur ki. Like I said: it takes a fair amount of knowledge of what you're going against and how to kill it if you plan to be successful against it.
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This is something I've said repeatedly: The skill is shown in the build. If a person says they're having trouble in an area, what's the first thing someone asks them? "Did you bring such and such skill?" "What build did you take in there?" "Did you make sure that you had an X in your party?" The *skill* is all built around *skills*. This is why Guild Wars is so vastly different from other RPGs, it's not about how hard you swing that sword, not that you know the proper strategy for a boss, but it is what you bring to the fight that determines how good of a player you are, that determines your victory. If you can't pay attention then I'm not going to compensate for that.
I've told you several times where the skill makes a difference and how... but you seem still quite oblivious, so I doubt telling you again would make any difference. Nobody likes to repeat themselves. Just read back over my posts if you're not sure.
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On the contrary, I PuG'ed the Shards of Orr and am done with it.|
Then Guild Wars doesn't sound too much of a game you'd like. It's all about learning to adapt, how to finetune your builds, and much more. It's best not to become to familiar with a particular build, because it might just find its match one day.
A lot of people have a lot of different ideas on the matter of what Guild Wars is "about". Many people claim it is soley "about" PvP .... yet I have nothing to do with that. As far as I'm concerned... it is "about" having a large game world, a lot of content, the presence of other people without continued reliance on them, instanced worlds so people can't interfere so easily with the process of developing a character (or several) in as many ways as possible. Perhaps key... it is about beating up a whole load of monsters and stealing their loot... then being able to show those spoils of war to other people. And for what it is worth I prefer the old "look how many monsters I've killed" to the alternative "look how big and scary the monster I just killed was". And for what it is worth I generally DO like it.
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by wetsparks
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I personally requested a close a page or two ago... and since then two other cocky gits have likewise requested lockdown despite it not being their place to do so. In any case... I'm totally ok to have this flamefest of doomyness and people failing to be of much help (despite numerous claims that they had) shut down. I did it in spite of this thread essentially... rather than because of it.
Would that give you a joygasm? I'm sure it would.
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Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310
OMFG you need a whole thread to explain this chit!!!!!!!!!
If you suck with hero's learn to play with pugs.!!!!!!! Someone close this chit already!!!! Put a plug in it already kid. The average dog has more of worth to say than you do.
ryanryanryan0310
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Put a plug in it already kid. The average dog has more of worth to say than you do. 26 here. The only time I ever post here is while at work (which is now). The time you spend writing this crap shows you got no life. It's like you writing term papers or something. Your WAY WAY too involve. You suck at this game, so stop trying to boost your post count and move on. GG Remember this game isn't hard!
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310
26 here. The only time I ever post here is while at work (which is now). The time you spend writing this crap shows you got no life. It's like you writing term papers or something. Your WAY WAY too involve. You suck at this game, so stop trying to boost your post count and move on. GG
Remember this game isn't hard! Just because you're a slow typist and a slow thinker doesn't mean everyone is ryan. I don't care if my rattling out a quick paragraph here and there makes you feel inadequate. QQ much. If you don't like involvement in the game... go hire a prostitute or something.
glountz
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Just because you're a slow typist and a slow thinker doesn't mean everyone is ryan. I don't care if my rattling out a quick paragraph here and there makes you feel inadequate. QQ much.
If you don't like involvement in the game... go hire a prostitute or something. I can't believe I defended you, even a little, on Chromatic drakes. You truly are a troll. Do you understand you completely made a fool of yourself?
fenix
Restore Condition monk w/ Dismiss
LoD monk with Dismiss Condition E/Mo with Savannah/Searing/Mind Blast and Draw Condition No more blind. Ever. If it's still bad, bring another ele with Draw.
Etta
lol soticoto, why don't you edit your first post to "I did the damn dungeon! now leave me alone pls". Anyway don't mind me, carry on.
ryanryanryan0310
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Just because you're a slow typist and a slow thinker doesn't mean everyone is ryan. I don't care if my rattling out a quick paragraph here and there makes you feel inadequate. QQ much.
If you don't like involvement in the game... go hire a prostitute or something. Slow typing? There's a difference between involvemnet in the game and obession. Here in New York City I don't need prostitute's.  You probaly need a girlfriend or whichever way you roll.
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by glountz
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I still have some sort of personal vendetta against them... rather along the lines of killing them as often as possible to make up for where they were killing me earlier on (when I was using a less appropriate team build)... but otherwise I'm over them.
And I don't need defense... You made your choices, and if you regret them then that is likewise your decision to make. Doesn't phase me in the slightest.
Quote: You truly are a troll.
Quote: Do you understand you completely made a fool of yourself? I give as I get, and I don't give a toss what people think of me for it. Trivial rhetoric and social standing has no place in my life.
I'm not here to "make friends"; I'm here because these boards happen to contain a lot of useful information that helps me play Guild Wars more efficiently.... and likewise a lot of completely worthless crap that I must wade through to reach the few gems. If people decide to antagonise me then I'm not going to kowtow to them to keep them pacified; I'm going to antagonise them right back. Action and reaction. Don't even waste any precious RAM on it.
Quote: Originally Posted by fenix Restore Condition monk w/ Dismiss
LoD monk with Dismiss Condition
E/Mo with Savannah/Searing/Mind Blast and Draw Condition
No more blind. Ever. If it's still bad, bring another ele with Draw. Nice an idea as that is, if I start dedicating my entire party to condition removal... every single one.... then they're going to be spending that time removing the conditions and NOT doing whatever else they're supposed to do. If three monks with heavy condition removal skills, one paragon with the Purification elite and the other with "Its just a flesh wound!" (note: total of 5 out of 8 condition removal) can't keep me blind-free.... then clearly I'm going about the problem the wrong way.
And I was.
I played spellcaster instead. I did the dungeon (albeit with PuGs). Problem solved. We can all go home now.
Ok?
Quote: Originally Posted by Etta
lol soticoto, why don't you edit your first post to "I did the damn dungeon! now leave me alone pls". Anyway don't mind me, carry on.
Because if I change it to anything, it will be "Someone lock this damned thread already!"
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What? I said I misread and took the whole situation wrong. Now that I see what you're saying, those were the suggestions I made.|
Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310
Slow typing?
Rash assumption on my part, but I'll continue to believe it unless you can convince me there is some other reason why you don't type more.
You could assume what you liked, but you already have made your stand on this and pre-judged... so it wouldn't really matter what was actually going on at all.
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Yeah I said my Rit had it for no reason. You misread or I wasn't too clear.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
If you can't pay attention then I'm not going to compensate for that.
I've told you several times where the skill makes a difference and how... but you seem still quite oblivious, so I doubt telling you again would make any difference. Nobody likes to repeat themselves. Just read back over my posts if you're not sure. I'm sorry, but you haven't said anything about what takes skill in PvE that does not concern putting together the build. I don't know a how, just a where. Failure to say that proves my point.
I've told you several times where the skill makes a difference and how... but you seem still quite oblivious, so I doubt telling you again would make any difference. Nobody likes to repeat themselves. Just read back over my posts if you're not sure. I'm sorry, but you haven't said anything about what takes skill in PvE that does not concern putting together the build. I don't know a how, just a where. Failure to say that proves my point.
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
And for what it is worth I generally DO like it.
As long as you know what you're in for.
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I'm sorry, but you haven't said anything about what takes skill in PvE that does not concern putting together the build. I don't know a how, just a where. Failure to say that proves my point.
Heroflagging in the 3rd level of the Shards of Orr... since it is relevant to this thread. I'm sure some people could manage to flag successfully around that section with the narrow corridor (after the entrance cavern) and the slightly wider portion with the poison jet and the three enemy groups in near aggro range.
Some people might even be able to flag quickly enough to reposition the heroes on the fly around that poison-jet and avoid aggroing multiple groups..... but I couldn't do it. I doubt even with assigned buttons for individual flags I would be quick enough to stop them doing something retarded there, and I sure as hell couldn't flag them back beyond the danger zone and STILL manage to lure the enemy group to them safely. And if you want a slightly more random example..... I still haven't been able to pull off the Horns of the Ox > Falling Spider sequence. I just can't get FS to hit the enemy before they get back to their feet, for some reason. I know others can do it, even without an IAS... but somehow I haven't been able to. Insufficient reflexes I'll bet..... same as the reason why I can't interrupt effectively..... nor time the use of the Arcane Echoed Shadow Form just right so it activates before the skill resets and I get to keep the skill up perpetually. These things take skill I don't have. But if you want to chalk them down to experience alone... you'd have to say the very same for everything in life.... as if your definition of experience is that broad, then it encompasses everything "skill" stands for.
Bryant Again
Flagging heroes, like I said, does take a bit of practice. Once you get the basics of it, which doesn't take too long at all, it just becomes a little natural to you.
Aside from that, the rest of the "skill" is reflexes? I wouldn't really call that skill in the game, just a skill in general. That's where this ends, since our definition of "skill" is too different.
Cebe
Personally I've always considered the "skill" in playing PvE as, amongst other things:Knowing just the right time to cast a skill, eg: Reversal of Fortune, Gale, Diversion
Knowing where to position yourself in a fight
Knowing what skills the hench have, and how they behave, and how you can work well with them. (since you can't change their skills)
I'm sure it's all stuff you'd take for granted, whereas for some people it takes a little work and practise.
Caleb
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Because if I change it to anything, it will be "Someone lock this damned thread already!" Where are the moderators when we need them? Fun as this thread is, it isn't serving its purpose any more. Closed at OP's request. This thread is chock full of forum violations.... |
