16 October update

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

17 Oct 2007 at 20:34 - 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by unienaule
Half time recharge on skills doubles their damage output. 33% recharge is a 50% boost. That's a significant difference.
To be honest.... I'm fairly certain Searing Flames can still out-do that.

... And I'm also fairly certain that 50% faster recharge does not mean things recharge twice as fast, but rather 1.5 times as fast.
Likewise, 33% faster recharge does not equal 1.5x recharge but rather 1.33x recharge.
That makes for a difference of 16.5% .... which honestly isn't all that much.

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

17 Oct 2007 at 20:35 - 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagg
The point of Aggressive Refrain should be to build up adrenaline/energy fast in a support build.
So you're saying that you think Paragons should be bad?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Shadow Form cannot be permanently maintained now.
Yay!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
... And I'm also fairly certain that 50% faster recharge does not mean things recharge twice as fast
Yes it does.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

17 Oct 2007 at 20:47 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Yes it does.
O RLY?

Then what would 100% faster be?



Watch my maths carefully:
50% of 1 is 0.5
1 + 0.5 == 1.5
1 + 0.5 =/= 2

shirosae

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

UK

Moon Unit Carby

R/Me

17 Oct 2007 at 20:56 - 44
"50% faster recharge" in Guild Wars language means "-50% recharge time". It's half.

This is why +33% attack speed results in +50% attacks (because it's -33% cycle time). Guild wars counts all percentages from the base, up and down.

100% faster recharge time would be an instantaneous recharge, because it'd remove 100% of said recharge.

LuckyGiant

LuckyGiant

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

New Zealand

Retired :)

17 Oct 2007 at 21:11 - 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
O RLY?

Then what would 100% faster be?



Watch my maths carefully:
50% of 1 is 0.5
1 + 0.5 == 1.5
1 + 0.5 =/= 2
Of course it doesnt equal 2 when you're using 50% :P

100% of 1 is 1
1 + 1 = 2

unienaule

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

17 Oct 2007 at 21:15 - 46
OK, so, if your original recharge was 10 seconds, and now it's 5 because of 50% less recharge time, in that same 10 seconds, you cast 2 of the original skills. 2 divided by 1 is 200% instead of 100%, which means you doubled your damage output.

For the 33% example, if your recharge is now 6.66 seconds, 10 divided by 6.66 is 1.5.

Shadow Form's old recharge under this skill was 30 seconds. It is now 40.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

17 Oct 2007 at 21:29 - 47
Alrighty....

I just checked in-game (because naturally I don't trust any of you)... to see which of the two possible conclusions to this mess of language would be right.

Shadow Form under Deadly Paradox took 40 seconds to recharge..... hence the conclusion is that the skill is labelled incorrectly... or at the very least awkwardly.


In effect... it had to either be the mechanic or the language that was being cited by people here that had to be correct, and it turned out to be the mechanic. Afterall, 50% faster than 100% (normal) would be 150% overall, and not 200%... which is misleading.
Perhaps if they were referred to in terms of time in the description rather than speed (which is effectively the inverse) then it would make more sense.



In any case.... I'm now seeing at least WHAT is happening, irrespective of what the skills or anyone else says is happening.... so this little subtopic can be dropped.

Would someone mind describing:
#1. How Shadow Form can still be permanently maintained (as has been claimed)....
#2. What the heck is the deal with the recharge indicator glitching after Arcane Echo reverts? If I had a means of making a video of it then I would, but the recharge-indicator for Shadow Form jumps when Arcane Echo reverts.

unienaule

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

17 Oct 2007 at 21:32 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Shadow Form under Deadly Paradox took 40 seconds to recharge..... hence the conclusion is that the skill is labelled correctly and works the same as every other recharge-reducing skill in the game.
That looks better.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

17 Oct 2007 at 21:35 - 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by unienaule
That looks worse.
Corrected.

Every skill thus labelled in the game is labelled misleadingly.
Afterall.... it wasn't until today that I actually took the time to measure how long Shadow Form took to recharge under Deadly Paradox, and always assumed it took 45 seconds before (rather than 30 seconds)... as would any other rational-minded person reading the description.

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

17 Oct 2007 at 21:39 - 50
Seems you are the only rational-minded person here, because you were the only one that did not get it!

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

17 Oct 2007 at 21:39 - 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Total and utter obliteration.

Shadow Form cannot be permanently maintained now.
Yes, it can, just tried it.

Winterclaw

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

17 Oct 2007 at 21:40 - 52
How is it that sassi's can attack in shadow form, but water el's can't in mist form? SF needs to be nerfed.

Ulterion

Ulterion

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007

defiinitely noyb

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 21:50 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
As far as I'm aware.... the other builds "abusing" (lolz) Deadly Paradox weren't doing it to maintain something constantly so much as make something 0.5x faster than it was originally meant to be. I heard it made Dancing Daggers quite dangerous (heard MANY complaints about that).
Now it just happens to be slightly less fast than it was but still 0.33x faster than it was originally meant to be.

Unless these "abuse" builds were centered around maintaining permanent Shadow Form in PvP (which, given the exceedingly low offensive potential of such a thing, would only be useful for griefing... essentially) .... then I fail to see how it is that much of an issue.
Dancing daggers vs Life Bond + additional buffs (Deadly? I think not!)

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

17 Oct 2007 at 22:00 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Alrighty....

Shadow Form under Deadly Paradox took 40 seconds to recharge.....

Would someone mind describing:
#1. How Shadow Form can still be permanently maintained (as has been claimed)....
I second this request. We see people claiming it still works:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Yes, it can, just tried it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
As I thought, the Deadly Paradox nerf didn't do anything to keeping up permanent Shadow Form. Just tried it with my sin and after 5 minutes in SF I had convinced to myself that it's still totally doable, so please stop complaining and check your timing

On the other hand, I wonder why anybody would want to bring into a PvP match a build that is totally trashed by a single sig of humility ...
But no account as to how.

Holly Herro

Holly Herro

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Kangaroo-land.

Blades of the Dingo [AUST]

17 Oct 2007 at 22:03 - 55
Why nerf deadly paradox? I think no one uses it for PvE or PvP..

Besides the shadow running thing

Winterclaw

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

17 Oct 2007 at 22:06 - 56
Because griefers in PvP used it to maintain SF and you can only kill them if they mess up their timing or you just happen to have the one skill on your bar that could hit them through SF.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

17 Oct 2007 at 22:12 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
How is it that sassi's can attack in shadow form, but water el's can't in mist form? SF needs to be nerfed.
Does Mist Form leave you with just 40 health when it ends?
I think not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Because griefers in PvP used it to maintain SF and you can only kill them if they mess up their timing or you just happen to have the one skill on your bar that could hit them through SF.
And the almighty A-Net happened to nerf the very best skill for doing that so that it no longer could.
GG Skill Balance: Chilblains is now effectively worthless.

What the sweet heck was the point in that anyway?
If they wanted to kill Shadow Form so badly then couldn't they have left in-game one of the key removers of said skill?



Just for the record....
On the whole irrational +50% = 2x thing .... does that mean Dash = 2x as fast rather than 1.5x as fast? ... For that matter, does it mean that Critical Agility = 1.5x as fast attacks rather than 1.33x?
Since when did 50% extra free = 2 for the price of 1?

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

17 Oct 2007 at 22:12 - 58
That's why I don't get why they changed Chilblains

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

17 Oct 2007 at 22:13 - 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly Herro
Why nerf deadly paradox? I think no one uses it for PvE or PvP..

Besides the shadow running thing
A/Mo Dancing Daggers lamers abused Deadly Paradox.

It was highly prevelant in RA,TA and even HA.

Mork from Ork

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

17 Oct 2007 at 22:46 - 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
I second this request. We see people claiming it still works:


But no account as to how.
you need max in shadow arts to get shadow form to 21 sec. Add enchanting weapon to stretch it to just over 25 sec.

Arcane echo gives you 20 secs after you first use shadow form before you must use it again or lose the echos That gives a total of about 45 secs covered by sf

deadly paradox means shadow form recharges 40.2 seconds after use add in the cast time of about a second and you recharge in just about 42 seconds

You have to have very careful timing but you hit dp/ae/sf count 20 seconds and hit echoed sf

count about 21 seconds and hit dp/ae/sf again

it's dicey but you can do it. You only have about 3 seconds total leeway anywhere in there so given any lag or slightly slow human response time it's pretty challenging.

Muspellsheimr

Muspellsheimr

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

17 Oct 2007 at 22:51 - 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
... And I'm also fairly certain that 50% faster recharge does not mean things recharge twice as fast, but rather 1.5 times as fast.
Likewise, 33% faster recharge does not equal 1.5x recharge but rather 1.33x recharge.
That makes for a difference of 16.5% .... which honestly isn't all that much.
The game calculates it as such: the 50% faster is the base 100%, reduced by 50%, for a total of 50% - aka half the normal activation & recharge rate.

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

17 Oct 2007 at 22:53 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Haven't tested it after the update but if the 33% reduction translates to an actual recharge time of 40 seconds for Shadow Form (as I interpreted it) then it is still possible to stay in the form indefinitely.
I have been testing this. Only way its possible is dualing now.
Cant stay in SF solo.
I could care less about the nerf for PvP but I am completly against it for PvE.
This was my alternative to 55.
I had fun farming in FoW alone and doing chest runs and stuff.

Edit: nm re-tested. it is possible atm but its only due to a glitch.
I hate to post this glitch in fear of another nerf.
Its not a new glitch or anything.
When the echoed SF ends your original SF actually jumps on the recharge by a couple seconds. so once they fix this it will not be possible anymore solo.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Oct 2007 at 22:58 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
I could care less about the nerf for PvP but I am completly against it for PvE.
Well then I don't think I can give you my sympathy. Far many more people were having their fun ruined by SF sins. Not being able to understand that is pretty upsetting.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

17 Oct 2007 at 23:01 - 64
Chilblains and Paragons need to be fixed..

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

17 Oct 2007 at 23:04 - 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Well then I don't think I can give you my sympathy. Far many more people were having their fun ruined by SF sins. Not being able to understand that is pretty upsetting.
I completly understand it.
My problem is that PvErs always get screwed over because too many PvPers exploit the hell out of everything.
Revert Chilbains to its original behavior and problem solved for PvP SF Sins.
Either that or just dont allow SF in PvP.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Oct 2007 at 23:07 - 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
I completly understand it.
My problem is that PvErs always get screwed over because too many PvPers exploit the hell out of everything.
Revert Chilbains to its original behavior and problem solved for PvP SF Sins.
Either that or just dont allow SF in PvP.
The thing with PvE is that you always know what you're up against, so you can come up with multiple ways of accomplishing the task, and numerous ways to get similar results. In PvP, less so. Being forced to bring a skill on your bar, or create a build focused around, for something that you might not run into is pretty distressing.

Ulterion

Ulterion

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007

defiinitely noyb

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 23:08 - 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molock
Chilblains and Paragons need to be fixed..
Anet's response...

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

17 Oct 2007 at 23:14 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
The thing with PvE is that you always know what you're up against, so you can come up with multiple ways of accomplishing the task, and numerous ways to get similar results. In PvP, less so. Being forced to bring a skill on your bar, or create a build focused around, for something that you might not run into is pretty distressing.
dont have to create a whole build around something. ONE person can bring ONE skill.
Also you said yourself that in PvP you never know what youre up against. So why do people spend 20-30 minutes looking for specific people with specific builds that may be owned in a minute once you get in? So really it wouldnt hurt anything to have one person bring a skill to deal with SF.
But I also wrote that they can just not allow SF in PvP. would make everyone happy.(Except the ones that exploit it, but do we really care? )

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Oct 2007 at 23:25 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
dont have to create a whole build around something. ONE person can bring ONE skill.
Yeah that's a problem. Being forced to bring a necro or having a necro secondary is not good. Having to limit your creativity because of an annoying nearly skilless nuisance would not make you happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
But I also wrote that they can just not allow SF in PvP. would make everyone happy.
Because as annoying as it is - and even though many wouldn't recommend it - the skill still has a usefulness. Only now it has a counter that doesn't involve you having to bring a relatively limited skill.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

17 Oct 2007 at 23:50 - 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
Haven't tested it after the update but if the 33% reduction translates to an actual recharge time of 40 seconds for Shadow Form (as I interpreted it) then it is still possible to stay in the form indefinitely.
Yeah, but it only works on ASSASSIN skills now. No more signet spikers.

Was wondering why I wasn't running into any of those.

yesitsrob

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

17 Oct 2007 at 23:51 - 71
pretty sure they forgot to nerf recall

Lagg

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

17 Oct 2007 at 23:52 - 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Because (Soldier's Fury) attacking 8% faster than Aggressive Refrain and not having access to Cruel Spear is the best way to deal damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
So you're saying that you think Paragons should be bad?
Well, you've exactly proven my point.



Aggressive Refrain is supposedly the only thing that makes Paragons good, and we all know that it's way too easy to keep it up permanently with no drawbacks other than the initial 25e investment, which you do pre-battle, even in PvP.

If that's the only thing that makes them good, then yes, they should be made worse.

Of course the whole profession needs a rebalance (and quite a few skills made more powerful), but that doesn't mean an obviously overpowered skill like AR shouldn't be nerfed.



There should be no such thing as a "free" IAS.

Warriors don't have a single free IAS either (Frenzy causes double damage, Flail makes you move slower, BoA burns your adrenaline, Flurry lessens your damage, etc.). Even the Warrior's Elite IAS Soldier's Stance is terrible compared to the Paragon's Elite IAS Soldier's Fury.

The only argument I could see used as an excuse for a free IAS is that Spears can never hit multiple foes.



AR needed a nerf. An elegant nerf. It got a hack job.

Just like the Rit spike skills first got that exhaustion nonsense and were then given a proper balance, I still hope AR will get a better fix. Whether simply an inherent -20 Armor penalty (which I think is also pointless) or a lessening in damage, anything will be better than applying the same condition over and over again. It's pointless and it's broken.

Either that or they'll reduce AR's duration to something silly like Hasty Refrain, in which case it will become useless to almost everyone.



I still stand by what I said: make it akin to Flurry. Heck, even give it a full 33% attack speed increase. As long as it lowers your damage, ArenaNet will fulfill its goal of not having it on every single Paragon out there.

And it will remain an excellent IAS for support Paras.

> OMG LOL SUPPORT PARAS

Which absolutely rule in PvE.

> OMG LOL PVE

I rest my case.

Mork from Ork

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

17 Oct 2007 at 23:52 - 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

Edit: nm re-tested. it is possible atm but its only due to a glitch.
I hate to post this glitch in fear of another nerf.
Its not a new glitch or anything.
When the echoed SF ends your original SF actually jumps on the recharge by a couple seconds. so once they fix this it will not be possible anymore solo.
That's a glitch on the graphic only. Mathematically DP should give SF a 40.2 second recharge. I timed it and that is exactly what it does. I don't know why the jump is there visually but id doesn't actually alter the function.

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

17 Oct 2007 at 23:55 - 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Yeah that's a problem. Being forced to bring a necro or having a necro secondary is not good. Having to limit your creativity because of an annoying nearly skilless nuisance would not make you happy.
Half the things people bring into pvp arent all that good. Because you never know what behind door number 1.
and you wouldnt have to limit anything. Alot of poeple bring a necro or necro second anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Because as annoying as it is - and even though many wouldn't recommend it - the skill still has a usefulness. Only now it has a counter that doesn't involve you having to bring a relatively limited skill.
The counter is for PvPers only Screws over PvErs. this is my problem.
PvErs should NOT have to suffer PvPers exploitations. If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.

unienaule

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

17 Oct 2007 at 23:58 - 75
Pay more careful attention to my maths.
If recharge on a skill is 10 seconds, in a perfect world (this perfect world is where they make special friction-less physics rope, for those interested) you would activate it 10 times in 100 seconds.

Now, say you were using old-school DP, which cut the recharge by 50%.

Your recharge is now 5 seconds.

100 divided by 5 is 20.

20 divided by 10 is 2, which is 200%, which means you are doing twice as much damage.

Run speed is completely different, there is no dividing of recharge times going on. Attack speed, however, works the same way, when you get a 33% attack speed boost, you do 50% more attacks in the same amount of time. If you were attacking once per second, at once per .66 seconds you attack 15 times in 10 seconds instead of 10.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

18 Oct 2007 at 00:18 - 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
Half the things people bring into pvp arent all that good. Because you never know what behind door number 1.
and you wouldnt have to limit anything. Alot of poeple bring a necro or necro second anyways.
Do you not think it strange that the only and most reliable counter by far to the SF build was only one skill? I think when you say "all you need to do is bring this one skill", then I think there's a problem with the build in question.

And just because some people do it (bring a necro/n secondary) doesn't mean that *everyone* should have to do it. Guild Wars is all about openness, be it in builds and otherwise. When you're forced to bring a profession for only one skill that combats only one build, then I think there's a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
The counter is for PvPers only Screws over PvErs. this is my problem.
PvErs should NOT have to suffer PvPers exploitations. If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.
This is the beauty of PvE - numerous roads to the same destination. Can't make money because X is nerfed? Then go the route of Y.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

18 Oct 2007 at 00:23 - 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.
what an idiot. how can you nerf people? do you actually take a baseball bat, put a "nerfbat" sticker on it, and beat people with it? if so, then i volunteer to be the beater.

Yichi

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

18 Oct 2007 at 00:29 - 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
The counter is for PvPers only Screws over PvErs. this is my problem.
PvErs should NOT have to suffer PvPers exploitations. If Deadly Paradox was nerfed because of PvPers then nerf the PvPers not the rest of us.
and idiotic running/farming builds that asshats bring into PvP thinking they are invincible and just grief everyone else is ok simply for the fact that they work fine in PvE?

Im ever so glad you have nothing to do with any form of skill or game updates in this game.

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

18 Oct 2007 at 00:42 - 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz
what an idiot. how can you nerf people? do you actually take a baseball bat, put a "nerfbat" sticker on it, and beat people with it? if so, then i volunteers to be the beater.
Lol dont take things so literally.
When I say nerf PvPers I mean seperate the 2.
As in pvp only nerfs or something like that.
So sorry you take things so literally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Do you not think it strange that the only and most reliable counter by far to the SF build was only one skill? I think when you say "all you need to do is bring this one skill", then I think there's a problem with the build in question.

And just because some people do it (bring a necro/n secondary) doesn't mean that *everyone* should have to do it. Guild Wars is all about openness, be it in builds and otherwise. When you're forced to bring a profession for only one skill that combats only one build, then I think there's a problem.



This is the beauty of PvE - numerous roads to the same destination. Can't make money because X is nerfed? Then go the route of Y.
I do go route Y. Its not that I cant come up with new ways of doing something.I have MANY ways of accomplishing the same thing.
But not all are as fun for me.
Why should I have to have less fun because of exploiters in PvP?
Answer I shouldnt.
I really think that they should seperate the nerfs. They have PvE only skills they can make PvP only nerfs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressYichi
and idiotic running/farming builds that asshats bring into PvP thinking they are invincible and just grief everyone else is ok simply for the fact that they work fine in PvE?

Im ever so glad you have nothing to do with any form of skill or game updates in this game.
I did not say that this was ok in PvP not even once. Read ALL the posts before commenting.
Im saying nerf it for PVPERS NOT PVERS. can you read that now?
As in seperate nerfs. Like they have PvE only skills make PvP only nerfs.
Or dont allow certain skills in PvP. ie griefing builds.
I dont like this in PvP either Im glad to see it get nerfed for PvP but leave it alone in PvE.
but seriously read all posts thoroughly before you go and comment.


But really it doesnt matter anyways because its not completely nerfed its just a little more challenging which is fine with me.

placebo overdose

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

N/

18 Oct 2007 at 01:03 - 80
hailey anne im terribly afraid that you have a mental syndrome of being a dumb@$$. please use logic when trying to outwit someone and don't give all pvers such a bad rep.
as for the updates paragons are either too good or too bad i think they need a drastic change and create a balance among their skills. the other skills much needed and chilibians is still useless sooo... yeahah