There won't be titles in GW2, right?

OK, I'm not sure where I should post this, nor where i should start.

Anyways, my question is about titles, will there be titles in GW2? I really, really hope it wont, why? Titles RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up this game.

My guess on why ANet introduced titles; they didnt know that people whould play GW as people play other MMO's, they thought people would simply break the game, play some PvP, move one, get the new expansion, beat it, play some more PvP, take a break, new expansion, so on. But it wasnt the case, people started to farm shit, FoW armor for sevral characters, rare weapons even tho a ugly ass skin is just as good a rare skin, grind rank emotes, etc. These people started to QQ about not being able to show off their hundreds, tousands of hours of efforts, titles came, and the game got more fun for some, while it sucked for most. Here is a list of what titled destroyed, atleast for me.

- Ascalon- & Shiverpeak-arena

I could spend countless hours, and have HUGE winstreaks. Me and Mr. Wammo didnt care about getting titles in RA/TA, we simply played it for the fun of PvP without elite skills and fancy armor (tho there was gearers, indeed, but not at the amount as now). We simply had a community in Shiverpeaks, making new characters to play after a while, etc.
It died, why? Gladiator & survivor title, when titles came, these awesome areans stood empty, bcuz dying would kill your survivior title, and winning alot wouldnt give you a glad title. Nowadays these arenas are mostly active in the americans districts nighttime for me, and it doesnt consist of many skilled players as it used to me, mostly dervish tanks that goes 1v1 vs Mr. Wammo and leaves if they get into the same team cuz then he cant 1v1, they also make "teams" and try to sync enter and leaves if they dont get teams, didnt use to be like that.

- Acctully playing the game as you should

Most charchaters from the 1st game, go to droks, get max armor, get runner to sanctum, goes over to the desert, and blabla, you know the deal, im NOT saying people didnt use to do this, but, they do this for survivior title + just having a lvl 20 char with least amount of effort, back in the days, you could acctully get a team in low level missons, now, you cannot, making your way thru prophecis without heroes as you can in NF, using only bad hence with shitty skillbars isnt fun, isnt fun at all. But you cant pug if you going for surivor, cuz your always gonna get atleast 1 person who thinks tanking is aggroing everything in sight and running back to your team.

- Droks arena / TA
It went away, glad title came, so instead of pining your skillbar, making friends, then only playing with friends, getting better, figuring shit out, you could now mesure how good someone was with a title. There was "top" players before titles...

Other title related stuff that sux is, having more then 1 charachter.
In DoA you get dmg reduction + dmg from your LB title, LB title is a big ass grind title, and it sucks. That ANet also made it do something important is even more RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up. It was OK the first time, on my necro, got r6 lb pretty fast, think 2 month of not to active play. But i have more then 1 char, i got 5 chars, all diffrent proffessions, all fun to play with, but i simply cant grind them all, why make a game with lvl cap 20 and offer extreme grind? Wasnt GW supposed to be grind free?

All the other titles that isnt account based is a bitch, like drunkard title, a fun title, would take ages to max for 5 chars, same with sweet tooth, cartograper and yeah pretty much all titles.

That GW:EN is "grind4ever to keep busy to gw2" we already know. So i wont even mention how much of a pain it is.

Incase you didnt notice, people dont PLAY this game anymore, people GRIND this game. Nobody starts a charcahter for the fun of playing with it, they do it for titles/prestige armor.

prestige armor, rare weapons etc should be enough titles is bullshit. And i really hope you come to senses and dont make GrindWars 2. Since i dont see how people would play GW2 over WoW if they like grinding, face it, GW2 will prolly have a shorter lifespan then WoW even tho its already "old".

I am REALLY scared of HoM, cuz if it turns out people get to keep their titles in some way, GW2 is doomed even before its released. In my HoM i got Eternal Hero Of Tyria, Elona and Eternal Hero, as much as i'd like to keep those, its not worth it if it makes title grind in GW2.
Titles are optional, yes, but they destroy for people that doesnt give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about titles anyways.

And yes, this is my opinion, my experience if your a PvErs who love grinding LDoA then be it.

Of course not. GWs was a guinea pig, GW2 will not be trash.

This post, albeit blunt, makes some good points.

GW2 should be a game. If I want a part-time job to occupy my evening hours, I'll get one that yields a paycheck.

Oh, I really hope there won't be. GW2 should offer new gameplay, not homework.

GW2 will have titles.

The difference will be that they will have no limit (same as levels, either really high, or no cap at all).

I like titles but i guess i'm in a minority, strange most of my guild enjoy getting titles

If GW2 has no titles what will we do after the missions are all done? PvP? i'd rather not PvP ever as i find majority of PvP'ers obnoxious and rude but thats just personal experiance i'm sure PvE'ers can be like that but difference is in PvE i can choose to H/h and ignore them. Rather pass time doing a title than stepping foot in PvP. I see GW2 having nothing to do once games "complete" i'm canceling preorder

The other side of this argument is:

I like my titles, my fow armor, my prestige weapons, it gives a purpose to play the game forward. ALL the prestige armor/titles/weapons are just that, no better than collectors items. A title proves nothing of how good or bad a player is. It is a goal that a player CHOOSES to obtain. Why do I have to play in a world run by you. Are you a communist that thinks everyone should all have the same skill bar and same armor and noone ever receives anything to distinguish them from anyone else? what a boring game. What you call mindless grinding, I call fun, getting together with my friends and killing the $%&^* out of stuff. I have never been bored playing gw. I don't find any of the game to be boring. I like to be rewarded for my long hours of play over someone that plays an hour a week. If you don't like the game, or you don't have the time, then go get a console game and play that.

Rather than comparing it to communism, I like to compare it to job market.

Grind = working in factory for 30 years. Then you get a gold watch, and are replaced by a robot.
Skill = Inventing a robot that replaces factory worker, then making a fortune selling them.

Grind = communism, where everyone is the same, where skill doesn't matter, where effort doesn't matter.

Soviet Russia had such economy. Every farm had to produce 17 tons of wheat. No more, no less. So fields were laying unharvested, since harvesting more than 17 tons would be punishable by death. Same for less than 17 tons. Productivity didn't matter, as long as every year, the pre-determined goals were met. People starved to death by millions, while there was food all around.

Alternative to this is the capitalist market. Everyone gets a tiny little something. Then, it comes down to individual to make their way in life.

Ironically, grind-based MMOs are the triumph of marxist ideas, where everyone is equal, where everyone is special, where everyone has part, and where everyone is taken care of. And in those games, where everyone is a hero - nobody is.

It wasn't until GW:EN, that everyone has equal skills (PvE only skills, equal for all classes, depending on same attributes, even items are the same for all professions).

Be careful what you wish for - you already got it.

If you need to compare a game to a job perhaps you are playing the wrong game, as for me. I'll be in gw having a blast PLAYING.

zamial

you sir, are missing all arguments handed to you.

GW has been grinded so much that nobody really plays it anymore, people grind it, as i said, when was the last time you had a real group with human players, in a low level misson? And if you did, was that group made up of sevral level 20 guildies helping you not die during the misson for your survivor title?

I dont really think that most people that loves their titles even played the game was here during the time before, for some people this game is about grinding titles, and thats all it is, its really no more fun then giving yourself a score point in a notebook everytime you take a piss or go shopping for apples.

And no, nobody wants to take away anyones title at this point, since people with alot of titles have prolly spend about 3k+ hours grinding them. But GW2 is a diffrent game that doesnt need to have the flaws of GW1.

I sir do not do the survivor title, that will make you neurotic.....my main character has died over 10,000 times, some of these were due to the fact that I played a saccer in a minnion factory, rember those? also the last time I puged I had not 1 but 2 guilds join my alliance. btw we had a blast, and still do. Noone carries me, I carry them and extremely sparingly. I have my own game to play. I also have several low level mules that I will occasionally go and play with other pugs or low level allies. In low level missions, just to do it. I also have read a fun Idea in a different post that goes: Make a new charecter and play through the game using only what is dropped for you or collecters items, basically an isolated charecter, now that sounds fun too.


[/QUOTE]
I dont really think that most people that loves their titles even played the game was here during the time before, for some people this game is about grinding titles, and thats all it is, its really no more fun then giving yourself a score point in a notebook everytime you take a piss or go shopping for apples.[/QUOTE]

I have been playing for 24 months, ty. I don't need a score card but hey If they are going to put 1 in the game why not use it, while I'm having fun. Most of the people that complain about titles are to lazy or not skilled enough to get them.

[/QUOTE]
And no, nobody wants to take away anyones title at this point, since people with alot of titles have prolly spend about 3k+ hours grinding them. But GW2 is a diffrent game that doesnt need to have the flaws of GW1.[/QUOTE]

Titles are not a flaw, that is your opinion.

You'll be having a blast doing what bots hundreds times more effectively 24/7.

Do you clear UW and FoW, completing all quests?
Do you collect mini pets?
Do you collect armors?
Play GvG?

or

do you grind titles?

You can grind titles in any game. It doesn't matter what it looks like. ProgressQuest, I hear, is great.

There was a player in AB with r12 faction title. Running a HB/mending wammo, and asking what skills he should unlock to make warrior builds. He got title by doing nothing but FFF for 6 months.

Sure, some like it. But they don't make up the game. It's such players that might as well be playing console games. They don't contribute anything to the MO part of MMOG, and they'll be busy with themselves.

There's a difference between grind and reward.

The reason grind is so popular with subscription based games, is because it keeps people paying with no investment. When people reach the cap, just raise it, and you're done, you have another 3 months of content.

GW2 promises to be non-WoW, while GW is trying its best to become WoW. The only problem with this is - only WoW works for MMORPG (proven, case closed). So either GW2 is WoW, built on top of grind, or it won't work.

Strangely enough, you won't be able to do that in GW2.

Everything will be a level. And there you'll have someone who has played for 11,000 hours that you will need to carry you through mission.

Everything you claim above will make you "useless" in GW2. You'll be either grinding till you drop, or be inferior. No matter how much Anet claims that won't be the case, this is exactly how it'll work. "No level 70 noobs, 80+ only".

TY this entire response is PERFECT, I have been underestimated since day 1 and that is fine by me. It wasn't the entire Trojan army that just marched all over you it was lil' ole me. haha and ya never saw me coming.

I don't spam my junk in trades and I could careless about bots. I don't use a bot program. I learned to play and adapt. FACT: in gw2 you will be able to don some of your greatness on 1 that is less than you and or a pet.

So here we are back to the start. Titles....I like them you do not, but don't ask for them to not be in a game, I like options not the lack of choices.

You know what, I hope that there won't be titles. That way people can do things just for the fun of it and because it is there to do... not because you need to do such and such for a stupid HoM unlock.

Those of you making comparisons between games and economic structures are taking it way out of context.

I ask you this; what is a game? What defines a game and makes it a game? It's rules that all players agree to. Chess is a game because it follows strict rules that both players agree to. It's the rules--the restrictions--that bring strategy to the game. Card games have rules. Sports games have rules. Any form of play you can think of that you can call a "game" has an established set of well-defined rules. In fact, if you take away those rules, then it simply becomes mindless play, like what kids do sometimes. If one does not follow an agreed rule, they're cheating. If nobody agrees on the rules then arguments emerge over what's fair.

In the case of video games, the rules everyone agrees to is the programming itself; the skills, the laws of terrain, the laws of projectiles and line-of-sight, etc. etc. And the ones who establish the rules are the developers.

So if you find yourself spouting rubbish about rights and freedoms with respect to a game, you've missed the point and should really just go write an essay or something to get all that off your chest. In a game, you are supposed to be restricted. Furthermore, you are supposed to be subject to the exact same rules as everyone else. We agree to this because we want to play a game. Don't bring communism into it, because that's such a red herring (no pun intended). While we're at it, let's compare Guild Wars to racism, abortion, or whatever racy topic that'll get people talking.

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MMOs are different from standard video games because their game play depends so much on the social aspect. With that in mind, it makes sense, and at some point is necessary, for the developer to attempt to manipulate the people. It's all very well to say we should have a right to play how we want, but that is, again, losing sight of the fact that this is a game, and without a little "carrot" to temp people to play a certain way, we have things like the Jade Quarry being completely void of life, or Sorrow's Furnace being used exclusively by farming groups. In a single-player game this is no problem at all, but on an MMO, this means anyone who actually wants to try this stagnant content cannot.

I see Drinky's point. Perhaps one doesn't want to "grind" for titles, but since that's what everyone else is doing, you either have to join in on the grind or play by yourself, which defeats the purpose of playing an MMO. And let's face it, as a single-player game, Guild Wars is a dull game. I don't know if I agree that titles directly cause all this, but I believe the title system is a symptom of ANet's new perspective of their game. Many of us started playing the game since the beta and loved the game for what it was. ANet touted a game without grind. I don't think they would claim that anymore. And those of us who preferred the old way are left in that position; grind like the rest of them, play solo, or quit. Just don't expect the old game again.

I think that just happens with all MMOs as they age, and the developers feel obligated to continue to support it anyway. We'd like to think of MMOs as persistent, but that's not really true. Single-player games end and roll credits. MMOs die slowly and ungracefully.

P.S. Drinky: Don't bypass our swear filters like that. They're there for a reason.

Why remove titles from the game when they are entirely optional? The only one that isn't is sunspear, and you only need rank 5 in that title to continue the game. I agree with zamial. Giving players a choice is what makes a game fun.

I actually like titles. I find having a goal improves my gameplay experience. I enjoy it, so I don't see it as a job. If it ever gets not fun, I know that it's time to take a break.

The bottom line is that other people getting titles doesn't affect your gameplay experience. If you find yourself thinking you are forced to get a title, that's not a problem with the game. Don't try to limit other player's choices just because you don't like a specific aspect of the game.

The only titles that I have found that are grind are the new rep titles. Granted, I do not PvP so I don't know about those. Everything else has been either too easy and quick to be considered grind (like LB and SS) or had so much variation or scenery that it did not feel like grind (cartography and vanquishing). I never farm, so I don't ever feel like I'm working or anything like that, even though I do farm in some console games and still enjoy that part. Remember the original role-playing games like Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior? You HAD to farm every few levels just so you could survive the next area. The creators had to make it that way or the game wouldn't take more than 5 hours. I've never experienced that have-to-farm sensation in GW. I only have one set of highend armor, and I only got it because I had accumulated the money while vanquishing.

The basic assumption is that to get a title you must grind. This is simply untrue. You CAN grind to get a title, but grinding is all a matter of perspective. One person may see vanquishing as a major grind, whereas another person sees it as exciting as you have to create new builds for multiple areas and you get to experience every type of enemy the game has to offer. The one who vanquishes will most likely not consider it a grind, whereas the one who does not vanquish will call it a grind. In regards to titles like LDoA and Survivor, those titles were not created to encourage people to do it. They were created as rewards for those who had found ways to do them when the devs thought it was highly unlikely (survivor) or even impossible (LDoA). I don't have either (they weren't around when I made my character), and would not pursue them even if I could. Why? Because it would seem like grind to me. But coming up on IVI, I do not have a single max title that I have felt like I grinded for.

In the end, you are right. The majority of players do what YOU consider grinding. Apparently, they call it fun. If the majority of players want that sort of game, who do you think NCSoft and ANet will cater to? Being a business, my money is on the larger market.

Wrong! Title tracks such as Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Lucky, Lightbringer, Luxon, Kurzick, etc. have been imposed on the playerbase: the 3 firstnamed reduce the chance to break salvageables (after the devs lowered succes rate by 25%, in order to grind your way back to the former level) and lockpicks, while the latter make themselves indispensible for farmers trying to stay within the economical top.

In GW2, titles better not be linked to any advantages at all, or the statement "grind = optional" will be as hollow as it is in GW1 right now.

God, I hope not, or only visible for you.
Titles are what created elitism both in pve and pvp.
NO MOAR
No, if you want to do DoA people will pick the one with higher LB rank because it gives profits. Which is retarded.

What, because you get benefits from titles, you consider them compulsory to get? I can see now why you want to get rid of them. That mentality is ridiculous. Just because you get rewards, you don't need the titles to play the game. I finished Prophecies without wisdom and treasure hunter, and I'm currently a bit over halfway to getting guardian. I finished Factions without Luxon or Kurzick. I finished Nightfall without Lightbringer. So I don't consider any title compulsory.

Basically, although titles in no way limit your ability to play, you still seem to think you need them. Since you don't want them, you want them taken out. Sounds like a bit of jealousy there.

Meat Axe

"just because you get rewards, you don't need the titles to play the game."

Yes, we dont need them, why have them? Isnt your über 15k armor enough? Or your general skills?

"I finished Nightfall without Lightbringer. So I don't consider any title compulsory."

Acctully, you cant. Its not possible.

I hope it will have some titles. Keeps you into the game, and keeps you playing.

If ANET wanted people to play for a little then stop, too bad for them. Because people simply arn't doing it and they can't change it. I say keep titles in the game, to get people playing and having something to do.

Don't get me wrong, I have no clue what GW2 will be like and the gameplay, but I think titles will be great.

The main problem WoW faces, is that their main "title" - the level, is badly hurting not only their player retention, but also severly slowed the acceptance of expansions.

They've already announced various insta-max PvE characters or close to that, to avoid grind. Not mini grind, but 1-month grind.

No, grind is no longer cool, since now alternatives can be offered.

Titles are a part of Guild Wars. The only suggestion I would have is to make them a little more accessible, like the reputation titles. The casual gamer can have a lower ranking title, yet still be able to display a title so as not to feel left out, while the more dedicated gamer can advance the title for more prestige.

I understand people complain about titles and how they're all about grinding and no fun but the funny thing is...they're an option, much like the option of whether or not to buy all of the Guild Wars campaigns.

So I hope Guild Wars 2 does have titles. If you don't want to grind, don't grind! Titles aren't necessary for beating a game at all! Even the ones that grant a benefit aren't needed. I completed Nightfall using heroes that used their beginning weapons. I didn't need to farm for R4 LB, and Sunspear gradually came as I played the plotline.

Anyway, that's my post regarding the matter. Titles are just added flair and should be included.

No titles.
Community peer-review is better.
And Antheus doesn't know communism. Just look the Stakhanov legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov.

Unfortunately QFT I've played WoW more than a year, I played another minor MMO games, everywhere it works just like that. Consider yourself useless if you haven't reached level cap. And IF Anet does levels something to replace titles - for example when you reach level 20 you are equal to player who reached level 80, it will work same. You will be considered as a "noob" who hasn't experienced the rest 60 levels and they will pick up rather another level 80 player, although you would have same stats as level 80 players.

I love GW for level cap 20. You just play few hours when game "begins". No more work before you can actually play, as in WoW, Lineage, whatever.

Of course, the wiki generation.

Look through analysis of "5 year plan" economy, and the side effects it caused when it was active, as well as the difference between published propaganda materials, and later, post-USSR analysis of true impact, and why it had devastating effects. Unfortunately, wiki only provides factual list of the years, but not the effects.

It's always interesting to me how many posts are about removing choice from the game. Like to play in groups? Try to get heroes removed from the game so that people are forced to group with you. Don't like to work on titles? Remove them from the game so people that do like them can't work on them either. Don't like to actually play through the game with more than one character? Change everything in PvE to an account based mechanic so no one can ever play through the game in a meaningful way with another character again.

It's all about removing options and forcing others to play your way. The GW community isn't just whiny, it's packed with people that are absolutely convinced the way they play is the only way anyone should play, and that what they enjoy is the only thing anyone should enjoy.

Am I wrong or do I see people who QQ about grinding and titles just becuse they have NOT any other end-game content to do beside it? In case I am right - I think they whine for a reason, because they are forced to play the way other players enjoy. It's hard to make everyone happy, but relying only on grinding titles so players are able to buy their new (reskinned but same as they until now had) armor, is silly.

On the other hand, people doesn't realise that game genre they wanna play depends on something they hate to do - grinding.

I have yet to see a solution that would make at least majority of gamers happy. Game we used to know (back then when there was only Prophecy) was for most VERY enjoyable (including myself), but it was because it didn't attracted so many people as GW do nowadays - and the bigger audience you have, the harder to please them it becomes

I see alot of good and bad points in this thread.

As to the OP and the threads topic... I disagree that titles should not be in GW2. I have been playing since right after GW first came out... I am one who loved the "old GW" as it was referred to in this thread... but even I think people should have that choice to work for titles. Titles aren't what the downfall of GW is.... I'll get to what IS the downfall in a minute.

And yes, it is a shame that the arenas are abandoned now for only "title-earning" locations of the game. But alas, what can be done now that the damage is done?
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Undivine... your post was brilliant. I tip my hat to you.

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Vinraith.... I agree with you... however... I don't think heroes and henchmen fall into that category. This is why:
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Guild Wars is a MMOG, correct? So it is a massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. It isn't classified as MMORPG since it is as much PvP as it is PvE and other reasons. However, you can actually play the game without needing to ever team up with another person... how is that MULTIPLAYER? Now I agree with Vinraith on what he was saying except about this. The thing is once you give people the option to play solo thru the whole game, you just took the "multiplayer" out of it. You might as well be playing a single-player console game that requires no internet access. Anyone remember .Hack ? It simulated an MMOG yet it was actually single player. Nowadays I find myself feeling like I am playing that 4-part series again when I play Guild Wars.

Henchmen and Heroes should never have been a part of the game. Yes it would take a bit more time to make parties, but let me say why I think this is better.

I have played WoW (though only a month because I despised the cartoonish graphics). I have played Guild Wars since right after release. I have also played FFXI (Final Fantasy 11 Online) the whole time I've played Guild Wars (somewhere around 2 and a half years I think). In FFXI there are no "henchmen" of any sort. You MUST find other players to do anything. There are alot of solo quests (I would say at least 90% of quests if not more can be solo'd in FFXI). But all missions in the game require a party effort (and most will push a full party to it's limits). You shout for the mission you are doing in major cities and form parties and go do them.

I have never had a problem finding people to do a mission in FFXI. Your linkshell (same as a "guild" in GW) is there to help you with them, as well as thousands of other people that are on the same mission. Sure it may of taken me a few hours to get a full party for a few missions, but don't you have the same problem in Guild Wars with some missions you just couldn't seem to beat with just henchies/heroes?

Without henchmen and heroes, people will actually have to play a MULTIPLAYER GAME, which is in FACT what Guild Wars is and what they claimed to be selling since DAY ONE. Now you can argue your right to "play solo", but the fact is you are talking about playing solo in a MULTIPLAYER game. If you want to play solo games, why are you in a MMOG ? If you are so antisocial, stick to single player games.

Without henchmen and heroes, you would see the following improvements:

1) There would actually be plently of HUMANS to do missions with through mutual need.

2) The overall skill of players would improve as they would have to learn to play their role in a party better than they do now.

3) You would have more people with "titles" due to having to go with other HUMANS to do things instead of all hero/henchie parties. This would reduce the "haters" as well as everyone would get more titles by team efforts instead of solo play. This thread may not of came to exist if that was the case.

4) Guildmates would mean more to a player. Once again comparing to FFXI, my linkshell mates are all close and have done tons of missions, farms, boss kills, and other stuff together and there is a sense of "comradery" there that I do not find much of anymore in guilds in GW. The few guilds in GW that actually have that comradery are mostly PvP guilds with members having the exact same interest. There are few PvE guilds that have that type of bond amongst it's members.

5) Due to a mutual need of assistance between fellow players, the overall treatment of other players would improve for the most part. This is definitely witnessed if you play both games (FFXI and GW). In FFXI you RARELY see people flaming each other in shout, talking trash to each other. It does happen (as in ALL online games, but it is rare). In Guild Wars I can go to any "major city" and sit there for 10 minutes and I'm GUARANTEED to see someone flame someone else or just be outright rude to fellow players.
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Now I'm sure there is some childish jerk that will post a reply "then why don't you just go play FFXI then". I love immature ignorance in people these days so let me thank you in advance for your idiotic post.

I shouldn't have to. I (and all of you) bought Guild Wars under the illusion it was a MMOG and I would be playing with other people. Yet I find myself having to use heroes and henchmen for most things. Why? Because many people chose that option, leaving few that still needed to do that mission or quest so now they are forced to take hero/henchie parties as well.

I read the words "Guild Wars community" and I have to laugh now. there USED to be a community... but what exactly is a community? I believe this definition is the one that comes to mind for me:

com·mu·ni·ty Pronunciation[kuh-myoo-ni-tee]
–noun, plural
3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists.

notice the SHARING part... if you are playing the game solo what are you sharing? What community are you being a part of? How are you making a contribution as a player to a MMOG ?

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In close, I say leave the titles, kill the heroes and henchmen.


Oh, and one last thought: For those of you I see bashing new players and calling people n00bs... you are the worst kind of player to any online game. Instead of getting your kicks on picking fun at those players, why not assist them? Why not guide them? Why not answer their question with the same effort it took to type "OMGz0rs what a fk'n n00b LMAO OMG OMG LMAO". At some point you were new. Even if your response is simply to point them to the Wiki where they can find their answers, isn't that more mature and decent thing to do then to respond with "OMG n00b" and make yourself look like an immature jerk?

As I tend to agree with you about the henchmen/heroes, I would like to point out some thoughts.

First, if you look back, when the worlds were splitted within America/Europe and Asian continents, it would be impossible to some people find groups if there were playing off peak times and still they would like to have option to visit their home districts sometimes.

Secondly, GW world is built different, open world in WoW like games are built to be soloable. It would mean to redesign NM world to be able solo certain quests (if I understand right you would like certain quest to be soloable and missions should be only for real parties). This wouldn't be problem, as HM came into game, but without it - once you beat the game, it's wasted world space.

And to the third, GW hadn't so much players in beginning, and it would have been painful to progress through game.

But generally yeah, I agree withyou, I sometimes feel I play offline RPG just with ability to sell loot I get to real players and IM built into game.

No, actually it's not, but even if it were that wouldn't mean people are forced to play it MP. If it did, I'd never have bought it in the first place. Any game that requires players to play with each other is of no interest to me, and I think you'll find that the market for such a game is quite small. The most successful online games all offer huge amounts of solo content (look at WoW, which most people play alone for 90% of the game). There are certainly niche titles that work the way you want (FFXI, as you cite, presumably works that way) but most folks that game aren't really interested in playing with strangers. They want to spend their free time alone or playing with friends, not trying to sort through a crowd of children, assholes, and incompetents to find some nice folks to spend their time with.

If you want to play a game where people are forced to group with you, kindly do so. This is not that game, it was never intended to be that game, and hopefully any future iterations of it will not be that game. If they are, you may find some folks to play with, but I'll be off playing games that actually cater to my gaming preferences. I suspect very, very strongly that the majority of the player base will go with me.

GW2 is currently planned to not have heroes and hench, but it's also planned to be fully soloable. Anet's fully aware of what percentage of their user base plays the game solo and small group (that means a couple of people and heroes) at least some of the time and isn't about to commit financial suicide by casting that portion of the player community out.

You know what's funny though? Back when it was just Prophecies it was so much easier to find other people to do missions. Back then if you suggested taking a henchie alot of ppl were like "Eww no thanks" because it was easy to get a full party. Now you will find alot of the missions empty with little or no players in it to team up with. The game was much better back then than what it has become.

Funny, i don't have to sort through incompetents and children in FFXI because they all seem to play Guild Wars lol. I'm sure the subscription fee has a lot to do with it.

You say this is not that type of game...
If that were the case then why make it online with other players? If that were the case why even have guilds? Much less alliances? Why even have a party option with other players? Obviously their intentions were teamwork between players. If they were releasing a game just for solo play why is it they nerf EVERY chance they get any solo builds? Why have they mutilated the skills on my 55 monk for 2.5 years now? Obviously the game wasn't intended for me to be able to solo everything. Perhaps you DID buy the wrong game.

You seem to think that the ability to play solo means "they were releasing the game just for solo play." I never claimed that, that's just silly. Solo play is an option, PUGing is an option, playing with a small group of friends or guildies is an option. So we come back to my first post in this thread, why are you so desperate to ruin other people's gaming experiences by taking away options they enjoy? If other people being able to play the way they want (ie not with you) bothers you so much, I suggest that YOU bought the wrong game.

No, PUG play is no longer an option in many missions because people just hero/henchie it now not because they WANTED to or chose that option, but because that was their ONLY option directly caused by so many doing it "solo".

Also, I know exactly what game I bought seeing as how I have been playing from the beginning of GW release. The game we play now is NOT the same game by many definitions. So unless you have been playing since then and even know what I am talking about, you probably don't even get my point.

New players are forced to do missions and such with all henchmen parties in prophecies many times because so many are off with hero/henchie parties leaving no one for them to party up with. In the other campaigns they get heroes, but that is only some improvement over all henchmen. That doesn't sound like an option to me for a game that is "multiplayer". That sounds like forced solo play to me.

As for myself I can do them with heroes and henchies. I've gone thru Prophecies campaign with so many characters I can probably do it in my sleep. The other two I don't know as well but I can do them with henchie/hero parties too. The point is I shouldn't be forced to do so in a multiplayer online game with thousands upon thousands of other characters. It doesn't bother me as much as I am skilled at this game, but what about the new guy?

You can read, don't you?
Succes chances at salvage certainly matters to one's virtual income (oh, and try to get your Superior Rune of Vigor salvaged from your 15K armor at only 50% succes rate); sure, such titles aren't necessary to play <in the basic meaning of the word>, but them being imposed on your gameplay experience makes them necessary to fully enjoy the game; which is a self-defeating motive, considering the required grind.
So did I, but after that only grind was left to be done, with several titles only further stretching the grind.
Wrong again!
I don't want them, so I don't want them to be forcefully incorporated in my personal gameplay experience (and face it, I can't go around certain titles, if I want a certain level of gameplay).
Riiight ... keep convincing yourself of that.

So the players that want to play solo should be forced to group by the removal of henchmen and heroes. In other words, your fun is more important than ours. Yeah, I see how it is.

This game is not a forced MP game. If it were, you'd have an even harder time finding people to group with because all those solo players you detest wouldn't be in the outpost to begin with, it would just be empty. People play games for fun. If they don't find it fun to play in a group of people they don't know, you can't force them to, they'll just find another game to play.

Ok, so you guys are QQing about titles and grind...AGAIN! Let's face a few real facts about titles before you cry that you hate them.

1) Aside from Sunspear, all titles are optional. Even though the SS title is needed, you need only reach commander to end the game, while most reach general before even getting into the desolation.

2)All other titles impart special powers/defenses or effect skills that are OPTIONAL in their useage. No one at ANet has put a gun to your head to max a title. Even the LB title needs to be no more than rank 3 in order to impart effective defense against Abaddon's minions. Most people reach this and higher without the need to farm anything.

3) The GWEN titles are all optional. You don't need the armor,consumables, or crafter weapons to progress or end the game.

4)Title bonuses and skills that are effected by titles are to your benefit, not the opposite. To make like titles haven't enriched the game may be your own personal views, but it is not a positive or impartial one. This is partially my opinion, so accept or reject this one as you see fit. Logic will decide that for each individual.

5) When everything is said and done, if you cry about maxing a title and max a title anyway, then cry that you felt compelled to do so because ANet wants you to grind or that a group wouldn't let you in if you didn't have a max title, then guess what...You're the weakest link! I haven't maxed one title yet that I didn't feel I WANTED to max or use.

All skills are useable without the max or medium of any title, just not as effective in all cases. Nobody needs to grind a title, and the day that someone tells you that you need rank 8 Delver to go into a dungeon with them, you shouldn't be in that group anyway. That goes for almost every title I can think of, save maybe LB in DoA-this case is special because of the brute force inflicted by not having a title at rank 3 or beyond, making for a more difficult time in this ONE particular area. Don't lump everything in with this isolated situation, which is what essentially has happened.

EDIT: As for the above mentioned comment about performance being hampered without grinding a title, you are very wrong. In the case of the Treasure hunter,Seeker of Wisdom,Lucky/Unlucky titles adding to effectiveness of salvage/chest openings-one should take into account that once you hit lvl 2 TH/SoW the lockpicks break less and the salvages survive more often than not. If you plan on using these titles to your benefit, take something else into account. Before the titles, you broke armor and cried. You had keys that werent remotely reuseable, and nothing that seperated you from the average joe shmoe in Lion's Arch standing right next to you. To cry about being forced to grind in order to "keep up" is foolishness. If you didn't have titles, and people didn't feel cheated about the opportunity to salvage better from a title, would the perfect salvage kit even exist? I think not, because no one complained about the old salvage kits. They complained when their guildmate who lived to open treasure chests and sat afk in the game festivals ended up with a title that gave him/her a 75% chance to strip stuff and not break it, while you had a 50/50 shot. So guys like you QQed and Boo hooed about that, so ANet makes a perfect salvage kit. Put in some moderate playtime(I.E. Play the game as normal damn it!) and you can craft a salvage kit that costs less than a superior salvage by far and strip everything without costing you a dime.

And yet you still complain? You guys kill me.

You said everyone played in the shiverpeaks areana when there was no titles around,
honestly how long would that have lasted?1 month, maybe 3 months but they would move on, when they brought in the titles you could have moved into ra with them, havent played that long but the impression i get is that in the first year GW was like the 1920s america, young and innocent, not a care in the world, but then in around 1950s (around a year in) the econemy was set off (by WW2) money became a big thing,it wasnt just the leet farmers making money now anyone could farm,make money and live comfortably.
This is the time i arrived into GW but i just played the game for fun, didnt farm until 8 months into the game, proper.in the 1950s crime rose, and the innocence was lost.

summed up it'd be hard to keep there attention for long time, titles rewarded those that had a goal, if they didnt want a title thats grand. but i bet a ncie bit of those shiverpeak areana palyers moved on to get rich too.


And Grind is optional, you dont need those things besides SS as metntioned above,

What is the differance between farming and grinding?
its basically the same, you may get a small enjoyment out of it you may not, the point is in farming your gettign gold which you more or less want, its still optional yet tons do it, grinding is exactly the same not needed just optional. may aswell complain that there isnt enough money...

If you want to play with people, guru is full of them. hit up a forum, put up a thread, and play with people. Here, though knowitalls and jerks abound, people also know how to have fun.

I'm always up for a good scrap.