~Ursan Blessing and balance~
trobinson97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
What I don't agree with though is someone using a full Ursanway build to BBQPWN an area, and then shouting "nerf!" because it's all too easy. So...you want to use an Ursanway build but destroy the skill for those who want to use it on their own with henchmen? I don't agree with that. It is powerful, granted, but at least it's elite.
Very much in agreement.
Aryn Rand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
Untrue. The damage is reduced by armor as normal. As the attacks are skills, though, they can hit through heavy blocking and blinds that normally render melee ineffectual. I bring it because it's solid DPS that is a lot more resistant to melee-hate than normal builds.
The kd is reduced by armor but Ursan Strike ignores armor.
Star Gazer
why does everyone feel the need to complain about how powerful skills are in PvE? Don't like it? DON'T USE IT! that simple.
trobinson97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Gazer
why does everyone feel the need to complain about how powerful skills are in PvE? Don't like it? DON'T USE IT! that simple.
Because they don't want you to use it either, and that gives them pleasure.
Enas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orinn
Untrue. The damage is reduced by armor as normal. As the attacks are skills, though, they can hit through heavy blocking and blinds that normally render melee ineffectual. I bring it because it's solid DPS that is a lot more resistant to melee-hate than normal builds.
Halftrue actually...
The prime attack of the bear "Ursan Claws" deals armor-ignoring damage. The AoE Knockdown skill "Ursan Force"s damage is reduced by armor.
The prime attack of the bear "Ursan Claws" deals armor-ignoring damage. The AoE Knockdown skill "Ursan Force"s damage is reduced by armor.
Wacky
I've always been curious - someone explain this to me:
Ursan Strike - Deals about 37.5 dps at rank 10 norn (armor ignoring)
Ursan Rage - 135 damage + KD every 1s
Spiteful Spirit - 37 armor ignoring AOE damage per skill use per attack (in HM, with the imba IAS that should be once per second or more)
Or even Empathy - 41 per attack
How does someone with Ursan do more DPS than someone with Spiteful spirit + other skills?
The +armor and +health isn't really all that important an issue if you have proper tanking.
Ursan Strike - Deals about 37.5 dps at rank 10 norn (armor ignoring)
Ursan Rage - 135 damage + KD every 1s
Spiteful Spirit - 37 armor ignoring AOE damage per skill use per attack (in HM, with the imba IAS that should be once per second or more)
Or even Empathy - 41 per attack
How does someone with Ursan do more DPS than someone with Spiteful spirit + other skills?
The +armor and +health isn't really all that important an issue if you have proper tanking.
tmakinen
Well, at r10 norn Ursan Strike has a sustainable rate of 37.5 DPS (armor ignoring). In addition to that Ursan Rage does 12.3 DPS (assuming single target) and sword (taking into account a 66% duty cycle, i.e., you're swinging when not using the ursan skills, and the damage boost from Ursan Roar) does another 14.9 DPS, for a total of 64.7 DPS. That number is not alarming by itself but the fact that most of the damage is
* ranged
* armor ignoring
* immune to melee hate
makes it somewhat overpowered. Other than that, +AL and +HP, KD every 10 seconds and induced weakness 1/3 of the time are nothing that a non-ursan build cannot replicate. Warriors actually have the least to gain from UB and its main purpose is, as I see it, to let squishies play pretend a warrior. My elementalist certainly approves
* ranged
* armor ignoring
* immune to melee hate
makes it somewhat overpowered. Other than that, +AL and +HP, KD every 10 seconds and induced weakness 1/3 of the time are nothing that a non-ursan build cannot replicate. Warriors actually have the least to gain from UB and its main purpose is, as I see it, to let squishies play pretend a warrior. My elementalist certainly approves
Esan
The efficacy of Ursan Blessing is overblown quite a bit. The first energy denial mob you run into destroys the build, and you will meet several on your vanq/guardian journeys. At best, it will speed up brainless vanq runs like Mount Quinkai or Perdition Rock.
Sacratus Ignis
ive now beaten over 1/2 the HM dungeons in GWEN using 2 or 3 UB wars. these are supposed to be like the toughest challenges in the expansion, and they are pathetically easy now. and energy denial mobs cant deny energy when they are sitting on the ground bc they get KD'd permanently. If you're worried about 20energy wars, run UB on paras... they get more energy. or run it on an ele if you are willing to sacrifice some armor for perma blessing.
i dont feel like this skill needs a nerf, but my alliance has been using it to break the game. We ran 5 UBs on HM urgoz and finished that run in an hour and 20mins... about 25mins faster than our previous record
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esan
i dont feel like this skill needs a nerf, but my alliance has been using it to break the game. We ran 5 UBs on HM urgoz and finished that run in an hour and 20mins... about 25mins faster than our previous record
Quote:
The efficacy of Ursan Blessing is overblown quite a bit. The first energy denial mob you run into destroys the build, and you will meet several on your vanq/guardian journeys. At best, it will speed up brainless vanq runs like Mount Quinkai or Perdition Rock.
draceena
I hope Anet don't touch this at all. I don't find it too overpowering if it's only myself using it with a full hero/hench team, and in fact it can be detremental with too much energy denial spells flying.
It's helped me in vanquising some areas I was just dying over and over on before but it was certainl no "god mode" I still had to watch where I and my heros/ hench were to make it work.
It's helped me in vanquising some areas I was just dying over and over on before but it was certainl no "god mode" I still had to watch where I and my heros/ hench were to make it work.
Whirlwind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravi
ursan blessing is not overpowered, is just good when used in grps of more than one, its not like TnTF or seed of life wich were TRULY overpowered, since they could be used only by 1 person in the grp to be effective.
only 1 person in the grp with ursan blessing does not make a difference.
stop trying to make the game cater to you, and leave it be, found it too powerful? dont use it. Yep my point exactly.
only 1 person in the grp with ursan blessing does not make a difference.
stop trying to make the game cater to you, and leave it be, found it too powerful? dont use it. Yep my point exactly.
Whirlwind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targuil
It is armor ignoring dmg. Fireball or most else fast recharging things aren't.
1 of the skills is armor ignoring, the other takes very heavy penalties from armor.
Sprites
try using this on an ele , just sucks
everybody doesn't have warriors
everybody doesn't have warriors
Whirlwind
Quote:
Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
Well I don't want to be told to bring some imba-cheat skill when I pug for, say, Urgoz hard mode or something like that. My own bar kills stuff good enough when I keep my wits about me. If I want a game to be ridiculously easy I'll play patience. Time > Skill wasn't it?
Imba cheat skill? Oh so that was you at anet who put this 'cheat' in their own game.
Yeah so its very slightly over powered. IF you can manage to get more then like 2 people together (with a high grind title) to do something in the first place.... When its just you and heroes all it does is kind of help to make up for the crappy hench ai that you cant micro.
Yeah so its very slightly over powered. IF you can manage to get more then like 2 people together (with a high grind title) to do something in the first place.... When its just you and heroes all it does is kind of help to make up for the crappy hench ai that you cant micro.
Warskull
Ursan Blessing alway requires you to sacrifice your elite slot and lose your entire skill bar when you put it up. If you are a bad player this is all well and great. However, I can personally do a ton of damage+utility that I lose when spamming bear skills. If the blessings aren't powerful, they are totally useless. The 6 ursans is just basically an IWAY for PvErs. Try running a proper physical pressure build in PvE and watch what happens.
Atomos
Meh, i don't care if people use it or not. I guess its great for professions that are normally overlooked, or has a low dps. Personally i dont use it cause i still find avatar of lyssa + scythe atks hitting 3 foes much more fun
Joe Fierce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Gazer
why does everyone feel the need to complain about how powerful skills are in PvE? Don't like it? DON'T USE IT! that simple.
omg, you took the words outta my mouth, straight up thats just it, it's not like pvp where if you don't meta you get rolled..i mean ffs, just don't use it and quit complaining and effing it up for peeps who do like it...
-joe fierce
-joe fierce
Whiskeyjack
While i agree that PvE does not require the same amount balance that PvP does I do think some sembelance of balance must be maintained. Most of the PvE only skills are ok being slightly more powerful version's of regular skills or providing a useful effect that you would normally have to spec another attribute line to get.
The problems arise when a certain number of skills are so powerful that even "bad" players can steamroll any area in the game without even breaking a sweat. Ursan falls into this category (SY! being another culprit imo), I believe this skill was included due to all the whining from certain quarters that the previous campaigns were to hard(obviously untrue) so Anet decided to include a skill that any fool could use and expect to win.
Some people have pointed out that Ursan is an elite and therefore should be powerful, which is certainly true to some extent but compare Ursan to the other 2 blessings-Ursan is noticably better.
As I said in another post somewhere I would like Ursans attacks to be made into melee attacks and therfore subject to nomal counters but perhaps add a few more skills for each form so that you get a full 8 skill bar with some interesting attacks and utility effects, however i doubt that will happen.
The problems arise when a certain number of skills are so powerful that even "bad" players can steamroll any area in the game without even breaking a sweat. Ursan falls into this category (SY! being another culprit imo), I believe this skill was included due to all the whining from certain quarters that the previous campaigns were to hard(obviously untrue) so Anet decided to include a skill that any fool could use and expect to win.
Some people have pointed out that Ursan is an elite and therefore should be powerful, which is certainly true to some extent but compare Ursan to the other 2 blessings-Ursan is noticably better.
As I said in another post somewhere I would like Ursans attacks to be made into melee attacks and therfore subject to nomal counters but perhaps add a few more skills for each form so that you get a full 8 skill bar with some interesting attacks and utility effects, however i doubt that will happen.
impression
Hi,
Well, unless you can give a example where "Ursan Blessing" teams give a LARGE advantage over a semi decent team build you can't say it is over powered. I said "teams" because, only one person with it doesn't make much.
I personally have used "Ursan Blessing" before but, I realized that I was better off with a decent skill bar. Never touched it again.
As a final note, comparatively there are other PvE skills allot more overpowered than this one. At least two of them never leave my skill bar ^^.
Have fun,
impression
Well, unless you can give a example where "Ursan Blessing" teams give a LARGE advantage over a semi decent team build you can't say it is over powered. I said "teams" because, only one person with it doesn't make much.
I personally have used "Ursan Blessing" before but, I realized that I was better off with a decent skill bar. Never touched it again.
As a final note, comparatively there are other PvE skills allot more overpowered than this one. At least two of them never leave my skill bar ^^.
Have fun,
impression
Vulkanyaz
It dosen't actually make you turn into a bear. So it needs an upgrade, not a nerf! 
Targuil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprites
try using this on an ele , just sucks
everybody doesn't have warriors
It is wonderful on ele, i have 80-90 energy so i can use it for a long time.
everybody doesn't have warriors
It is wonderful on ele, i have 80-90 energy so i can use it for a long time.
MercenaryKnight
Necros, paragons and eles seem to be the best candidates for ursanway. Paragons can use the shout to gain quite a bit of energy inbetween fights, necro's have their soulreaping and eles have the huge energy pools.
Zamochit
Scythes tend to work well with ursanway aswell in my experience, hitting multiple targets means you are able to maintain the form a lot easier.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Necros, paragons and eles seem to be the best candidates for ursanway. Paragons can use the shout to gain quite a bit of energy inbetween fights, necro's have their soulreaping and eles have the huge energy pools.
Those seem like the worst three professions for the Ursan. You lose your warrior hate, your passive defense, and some good AoE. The only profession that the Ursan is really useful on is a warrior in areas with a lot of physical hate (Shards of Orr, Ravenheart Gloom, etc). Only exception would be mallyx since you can't hex or inflict conditions on him making some professions kinda useless unless they bear.
MercenaryKnight
Paragons can be more effective at ursanway because they can precast a few chants/ shouts before transforming.
The main part of my post was the best characters to keep up ursan for as long as possible, not to say that you should only take ursan x, x, x.
Just giving my opinion on the 3 classes that can keep it up for the longest.
The main part of my post was the best characters to keep up ursan for as long as possible, not to say that you should only take ursan x, x, x.
Just giving my opinion on the 3 classes that can keep it up for the longest.
DarklingKiller
Ursans are only truly effective in teams. One ursan's damage can be easily healed and the KD doesn't bother anyone. Take several armor-ignoring damage at once and constant KDs and it's a lot more effective. It reminds me of siege way.
I attempted to vanquish Dalada Uplands with just on Siege Devourer and the rest were heroes and henchies. I hit a Charr group with my Siege Attack and they rubbed the dust out of the eyes and proceeded to pound on my team. Later on I returned with 6 Devourers and the group dropped in less than 10 seconds.
Ursan Blessing should not be nerfed. The only reason I think it works so well is that it's used in masses to create spikes in PvE.
I attempted to vanquish Dalada Uplands with just on Siege Devourer and the rest were heroes and henchies. I hit a Charr group with my Siege Attack and they rubbed the dust out of the eyes and proceeded to pound on my team. Later on I returned with 6 Devourers and the group dropped in less than 10 seconds.
Ursan Blessing should not be nerfed. The only reason I think it works so well is that it's used in masses to create spikes in PvE.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Paragons can be more effective at ursanway because they can precast a few chants/ shouts before transforming.
The main part of my post was the best characters to keep up ursan for as long as possible, not to say that you should only take ursan x, x, x.
Just giving my opinion on the 3 classes that can keep it up for the longest. How can a paragon keep up bear form better than any other profession?
The main part of my post was the best characters to keep up ursan for as long as possible, not to say that you should only take ursan x, x, x.
Just giving my opinion on the 3 classes that can keep it up for the longest. How can a paragon keep up bear form better than any other profession?
Whirlwind
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Leadership
Honestly tho i have no problems as a derv, but i cant gain energy out of combat at will while in the form.
Honestly tho i have no problems as a derv, but i cant gain energy out of combat at will while in the form.
blue.rellik
Oh that's right, forgot about Ursan Roar
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryFox
All "Balance" Nerfs to PvE skills have done is drive players away to other games. For example the TNTF and Seed of Life Nerfs that have caused people to leave. (Yes I happen to know people who left over that)
And there's an attitude I really don't understand. Quitting over the rebalancing of a skill that's only even existed since, what, June? Either they're incerdibly thin-skinned or they were already looking for an excuse (which could be saying a lot on it's own, but...)
Personally, I find Assassins make good subjects for a blessing as well, thanks to Critical Strikes. Heck, come to think on it, might make some of those high-recharge comboes more viable - open up with a frontloaded chain and then hit the Blessing.
As for power... I think it may be a little questionable. If the intent is to allow non-melee to fill the melee role, fine - but it should be at best equal to (and probably slightly weaker than, as the player still has the option to use their regular class, adding durability) a well-built melee character - make it an actual substitute, or something a caster can use to punish melee harassment, rather than the first thing you go for when looking for a tank.
Personally, I find Assassins make good subjects for a blessing as well, thanks to Critical Strikes. Heck, come to think on it, might make some of those high-recharge comboes more viable - open up with a frontloaded chain and then hit the Blessing.
As for power... I think it may be a little questionable. If the intent is to allow non-melee to fill the melee role, fine - but it should be at best equal to (and probably slightly weaker than, as the player still has the option to use their regular class, adding durability) a well-built melee character - make it an actual substitute, or something a caster can use to punish melee harassment, rather than the first thing you go for when looking for a tank.
GloryFox
Quote:
Many players are still miffed about many class nerf changes such as Ritual Lord & Communing build Nerfs, The Blood Song move, Motivation Nerfs, some Ele Fire and Earth spell nerfs, Warrior Superior Damage Reduction Rune Nerfs, Neco energy and Minion Mastery nerfs, etc etc. Most of these nerfs were done for the sake of "balance" for PvP. Many PvE players simply put up with PvP changes to PvE because of the "balance" argument, and continued playing, hearing of the PvE only skills or hope of new skills for new chapters. The Seed of Life and TNTF where to PvE a form re balance factors for many people especial for the lone wolf Paragon player. When the "Balance Nazi's" came out in force for PvE only skill "nerfs" these players realized they did not like the path ANet had chosen for the PvE experience and simply left the game never to return.
Player psychology can be a fickle thing. The PvE game is based upon your overall playing experience, if it becomes too stressful like real life most PvE players leave. Think less play can be fun for some and while many hard core PvP players want to enjoy the fruits of the PvP experience in PvE they bring their PvP world view and collide into the main stream PvE world view. Most PvE players are casual so they don't follow the forums or high adrenalin rush of PvP or of builds. This is also why so many PuG's are bad players on average. They don't read PvX unless told to by PvP or HARD CORE PvE players. They just want to relax put in varied effort and enjoy the experience and visuals of an alternate PvE universe. Not the high stakes of PvP rush play.
As much as this endangers the edge of hard core play ANet is running a business and if their business cannot draw these casual players in then they endanger their business model. Many casual players simply will not return or buy new chapters. So there is a give a take philosophy. You have to give a little to the casual gamer and hard core at the same time. When the casual gamers feel cheated out of their experience you lose future potential revenue. Already I know of many casual gamers who have given up altogether with ANet and simply will not return under any circumstance. They feel cheated out of a great casual game experience for the sake of forcing a style of play not suited to their needs.
SO ANET PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE TO ENDANGER THE CASUAL PVE GAME PLAY. LEAVE THE BLESSINGS ALONE. YOU ARE ONLY HARMING FUTURE SALES OF GUILD WARS GAMES.
arsie
PvE only skills are compensations for all those PvE skills that were nerfed to dust because of the way they were used in PvP.
I have a mixed feeling about Ursan's Blessing (and other overpowered PvE skills). On one hand, it allows players to finally play certain content, when their favourite professions were not efficient in those areas.
On the other hand, Ursan's Blessing (more than any other PvE skill), turns every profession into the same build (ok, not exactly the same). Which was the exact problem that elite areas had, running specific builds helps you get teams.
I would vote to keep it as it is. Let everyone play every single content, they paid for it, after all. For those people steamrolling through HM and bemoan the lack of a challenge, just handicap yourself.
Maybe Anet will introduce Warlord Guardian/Vanquisher title for people who do HM with only 4 characters someday.
I have a mixed feeling about Ursan's Blessing (and other overpowered PvE skills). On one hand, it allows players to finally play certain content, when their favourite professions were not efficient in those areas.
On the other hand, Ursan's Blessing (more than any other PvE skill), turns every profession into the same build (ok, not exactly the same). Which was the exact problem that elite areas had, running specific builds helps you get teams.
I would vote to keep it as it is. Let everyone play every single content, they paid for it, after all. For those people steamrolling through HM and bemoan the lack of a challenge, just handicap yourself.
Maybe Anet will introduce Warlord Guardian/Vanquisher title for people who do HM with only 4 characters someday.
tmakinen
(N, P, E)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Quote:
Those seem like the worst three professions for the Ursan. You lose your warrior hate, your passive defense, and some good AoE. The only profession that the Ursan is really useful on is a warrior in areas with a lot of physical hate (Shards of Orr, Ravenheart Gloom, etc).
Actually no, at least for N and E. Whereas a P is in most cases more useful without ursan, there are several places where you can have an effective 7-skill non-elite build for one part and ursan skills for those parts where your normal build is simply not viable because of, e.g., constant caster hate like daze (Abaddon's Gate, anyone?), interrupts (gotta love Arborstone), enchantment stripping (making ele energy management a real challenge) or skills like Spell Breaker, Obsidian Flesh or Vow of Silence. Your melee hate and AoE is useless if you cannot get it out, and UB will allow you to do more than just twirl your thumbs while the rest of the team does the heavy lifting 
The Meth
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Those seem like the worst three professions for the Ursan. You lose your warrior hate, your passive defense, and some good AoE. The only profession that the Ursan is really useful on is a warrior in areas with a lot of physical hate (Shards of Orr, Ravenheart Gloom, etc). Only exception would be mallyx since you can't hex or inflict conditions on him making some professions kinda useless unless they bear.
Constant weakness + spammed kd from ursan roar takes a lot of the pressure off of your team, which is replacing 'warrior hate' and 'passive defense'. Ursan definitely doesn't have good aoe though. Also one of the best things about Ursan form skills is how awesomely they combine with buffs like essence of celerity, nearly doubling your damage output. I do really like how less commonly requested classes (anything not part of the tank/heal/nuke team build) can just slap ursan to their skill bars and most pugs will accept that.
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
(N, P, E)
Actually no, at least for N and E. Whereas a P is in most cases more useful without ursan, there are several places where you can have an effective 7-skill non-elite build for one part and ursan skills for those parts where your normal build is simply not viable because of, e.g., constant caster hate like daze (Abaddon's Gate, anyone?), interrupts (gotta love Arborstone), enchantment stripping (making ele energy management a real challenge) or skills like Spell Breaker, Obsidian Flesh or Vow of Silence. Your melee hate and AoE is useless if you cannot get it out, and UB will allow you to do more than just twirl your thumbs while the rest of the team does the heavy lifting
Which is essentially the role I think the Blessings should fill. Not a replacement for your profession, but something you can fall back on when your profession just doesn't work for the situation.Groups of 6 bears + healers running around elite areas WTFPWNing everything more effectively than a balanced party seems, to me, to be just a little bit excessive. But a mesmer going bear to rip the face off that annoying Sacred Griffon? Heck yeah!
Free Wind
When, after countless attempts to kill Mallyx with heroes, we (me and my friend) finally came to idea to try Ursan, I simply got shocked how insanely overpowered it was.
First thing I did is created thread 'Mallyx with your heroes' for all those who needed to kill Mallyx for HoM statue before the skill gets badly nerfed. It was obvious to me that the skill would be nerfed in the nearest future. There is no doubt to it - Ursan Blessing is stupidly overpowered and a no-brainer skill. Just spam 1-1-1-2-1-1-2-3. Note, I am not saying that it must be nerfed, all I am saying that the skill is overpowered as hell. As many have said, PvE and Balance is someting that doesn't really exist (look at Great Dwarf Weapon, Finish Him shout, Drunken Master, Consumables etc), but when you can simply take a friend, both equip UB, grab heroes and devaste any Elite area... you'll have no doubt that there is something really wrong with it So, for all those who like Ursan - I strongly suggest - abuse it to hell now, finish everything you wanted but couldn't before. Do this before Ursan Blessing is nerfed into oblivion (which is bound to happen anyway) Wacky
I can just see some players going and farming max Norn title for Ursan Blessing, and then see that it gets nerfed the next day.
The problem with nerfing PVE is that people who haven't gotten around to using it are disadvantaged compared to those that do.
Citadel Runner
I Wish this thread had not been started. Those who know about Ursan use it and treasure it in silence. Those who do not, will soon find out. Personally, for me, its the best skill in the entire game. Its laughable that in Umbral Grotto, there are still people who will not take you in their Duncan team because they want an Obby Tank, not an Ursan Tank. How horribly misguided they are! Unfortunately, ANET loves to destroy a good thing. Lets hope they don't. After all, they made it a PVE only skill for a reason. The reason was valid. I hope they don't touch it.
JASON626
I'd say daggers or scythe are the best :P
DivineEnvoy
The initial expression I got from reading this thread was really just a minority claiming that one of the pve-only elite skills is being overpowered, and therefore, it is morally right to "balance it" for the sake of the community. The question is, is it really rational to act morally?
Initially, hard mode was introduced for players to have a challenge in the game, but more importantly, to have fun. Although this idea sounds very exciting, how many of us really have the time to enjoy this new idea, despite the fact that we have exams that stress us, the responsibility we have for our family members, and even the wives we have who would bite us for playing too much Guild Wars, along with the fact most of us has to solo these difficult areas with heroes and henches. Truly, the population of people who can actually enjoy hard mode was and has always been a minority. Now with the new introduction of the new pve-only skills, some of us can finally enjoy the facinating gameplay of hard mode. Hard mode is no longer an exclusive mania for hardcore players; of course, hard mode still provides its difficulties, but it no longer consumes the lengthy amount of time we have to beat each area. Isn't that better? Most people's arguements here are rather invalid. What they are saying is basically they find the skill Ursan Blessing to be overpowered, and they do not enjoy it, and thus they assume it's best for it to be nerfed for the sake of the community. Truly, it was just an assumption, which is incorrect by the way, notice how many of us are actually in favor of keeping the skill the way it is. The answer to the question, is it rational to act morally is clear: it was never rational to act morally, because the so-called moral is only people's opinion, and it should not have the right to speak for the rest of the community. |
