~Ursan Blessing and balance~
lennymon
Actually only skill 1 is armor ignoring, the aoe attack (skill 2) is not armor ignoring. Only the ignorant assume it ignores the armor ignobly. quite frankly I doubt an ursan team is 'easier' than say B/P just that any profession can run it proficiently.
Whiskeyjack
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Reason
/notsigned
OMG a Mesmer can kill Mallyx or get his FoW shrine with no descrimination, who cares about balancing PvE, leave it be it is not causing any harm, if you need to get rid of that then get rid of sins because be and my guild do 1.5hr HM FoW with 3 sins and others.
DON'T NERFT IT, IT IS FINE HOW IT IS!
OMG a Mesmer can kill Mallyx or get his FoW shrine with no descrimination, who cares about balancing PvE, leave it be it is not causing any harm, if you need to get rid of that then get rid of sins because be and my guild do 1.5hr HM FoW with 3 sins and others.
DON'T NERFT IT, IT IS FINE HOW IT IS!
Cobalt
I just don't get the mind set some of you have; why in the hell would you want to get a skill nerft that can only help you, be it you using it or someone else in the group?
Like I said in the other thread, wanting this skill nerft is like demanding to shoot your self in the foot, it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever!
The only reason I can possibly think of is some of you do not own EotN and you are jealous of others that have that skill and have busted their butts grinding Norn rep to get the most out of it.
It is the " If I can't have it no one should" syndrome
Like I said in the other thread, wanting this skill nerft is like demanding to shoot your self in the foot, it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever!
The only reason I can possibly think of is some of you do not own EotN and you are jealous of others that have that skill and have busted their butts grinding Norn rep to get the most out of it.
It is the " If I can't have it no one should" syndrome
arcant
Nerfing is an attempt to remove unfair advantages that give characters or teams an automatic upperhand against their opponents.
Ursan Blessing may give an advantage for teams in terms of less time needed (to kill mobs and complete quests), ease of formation (because all you need is one skill) and less specific skill needed.
Now let's look at the advantages one by one.
Less time needed - Consumables, such as Essence of Celerity, do that as well. Those that boost health and energy and morale give you substantially more base resources to plough through mobs before you stop to regen.
Ease of formation - Now why would anyone want to remove that?
Less specific skill - Build purists might be aghast at the uniformity of teams, but how are ursan blessing teams different from cookie cutter teams? SF and savannah heat elementalists will always be spamming those skills, SS, SV, Signet of Sorrow (for Duncan in Slavers' Exile especially) necros will always be spamming those skills, and so on. Now we just have another skill to spam: Ursan Strike.
Unfair? To an extent, yes, but so are unconsumables. And it's against mobs, and they're not complaining.
Detrimental to gameplay? This is just another build requiring a certain set of skills. Like all other cookie cutter builds. In a way, this is another build to choose from, and it is refreshing. It isn't -additionally- detrimental, it's just another cookie in the status quo of cookie cutters.
Don't nerf.
Ursan Blessing may give an advantage for teams in terms of less time needed (to kill mobs and complete quests), ease of formation (because all you need is one skill) and less specific skill needed.
Now let's look at the advantages one by one.
Less time needed - Consumables, such as Essence of Celerity, do that as well. Those that boost health and energy and morale give you substantially more base resources to plough through mobs before you stop to regen.
Ease of formation - Now why would anyone want to remove that?
Less specific skill - Build purists might be aghast at the uniformity of teams, but how are ursan blessing teams different from cookie cutter teams? SF and savannah heat elementalists will always be spamming those skills, SS, SV, Signet of Sorrow (for Duncan in Slavers' Exile especially) necros will always be spamming those skills, and so on. Now we just have another skill to spam: Ursan Strike.
Unfair? To an extent, yes, but so are unconsumables. And it's against mobs, and they're not complaining.
Detrimental to gameplay? This is just another build requiring a certain set of skills. Like all other cookie cutter builds. In a way, this is another build to choose from, and it is refreshing. It isn't -additionally- detrimental, it's just another cookie in the status quo of cookie cutters.
Don't nerf.
arsie
Elite dungeons are about aspirations and a sense of achievement. (As well as phat loot)
The problem is that there are two kinds of aspirations, some are just impossible dreams, others are potentially achievable when one improves or works hard at it.
The issue with the old DoA is that, after a few quick wipes, many people regarded it as impossible. That created a barrier to attempting to achieve it.
The sense of achievement is not all about elitism. It is a reward for achieving something, whether that is a high or low achievement is beside the point.
Play any game in Godmode, and you'll know how long that sense of achievement lasts. You'll be popping in a new game pretty soon after finishing it.
The issue with Anet is that it is having a hard time (some say completely failing) balancing the aspirations of doing DoA for the masses, and the sense of achievement of doing it for the truly good players.
The answer is neither the DoA of old, nor Ursanway, unfortunately. I believe both DoA and Ursanway need to be worked at to attempt to bring more people into feeling that DoA is achievable, while rewarding those who worked hard to achive it.
I suspect that Anet will nerf Ursan's Blessing alone, and it may not bridge this divide. Its about critical mass, bringing enough players into the middle ground.
The problem is that there are two kinds of aspirations, some are just impossible dreams, others are potentially achievable when one improves or works hard at it.
The issue with the old DoA is that, after a few quick wipes, many people regarded it as impossible. That created a barrier to attempting to achieve it.
The sense of achievement is not all about elitism. It is a reward for achieving something, whether that is a high or low achievement is beside the point.
Play any game in Godmode, and you'll know how long that sense of achievement lasts. You'll be popping in a new game pretty soon after finishing it.
The issue with Anet is that it is having a hard time (some say completely failing) balancing the aspirations of doing DoA for the masses, and the sense of achievement of doing it for the truly good players.
The answer is neither the DoA of old, nor Ursanway, unfortunately. I believe both DoA and Ursanway need to be worked at to attempt to bring more people into feeling that DoA is achievable, while rewarding those who worked hard to achive it.
I suspect that Anet will nerf Ursan's Blessing alone, and it may not bridge this divide. Its about critical mass, bringing enough players into the middle ground.
Whirlwind
I think people are confusing multiple ursans + multiple consumables with this whole issue. You can do DoA with just a bunch of consumables alone and a balanced team (read: NOT standard DoA group) and not even 1 ursan...
Or you can load up on ursan and use no consumables, or use both. Theres also several new pve skills that help a lot. I think 'ursanway' is getting a bad rap here. So many people say 1 ursan isnt overpowered, not until you get many together. Well when me and my buddy do DoA with just me and him and 6 heroes, i am the ONLY one using ursan and we 'sometimes' take consumables.
Simple fact is there are too many other strats and skills out there now that it just isn't that hard any more. You don't even need ursan or consumables, or a standard DoA team with (yuck) obs tank, eles, BR etc... Its all about strat just as it was in the beginning, only difference is a lot of things have changed.
So take ursan and consumables or dont... sure its a bit easier but its not super hard anyway.. so who cares? Id even be willing to do DoA with no ursan whatsoever and a balanced team nowadays. Only rough part is foundry (only because I haven't ironed that one out yet, but it will go down, just as the other 3 did, its only a matter of time)
TBH iv'e had rougher times in some gw:en dungeons on HM then DoA
Or you can load up on ursan and use no consumables, or use both. Theres also several new pve skills that help a lot. I think 'ursanway' is getting a bad rap here. So many people say 1 ursan isnt overpowered, not until you get many together. Well when me and my buddy do DoA with just me and him and 6 heroes, i am the ONLY one using ursan and we 'sometimes' take consumables.
Simple fact is there are too many other strats and skills out there now that it just isn't that hard any more. You don't even need ursan or consumables, or a standard DoA team with (yuck) obs tank, eles, BR etc... Its all about strat just as it was in the beginning, only difference is a lot of things have changed.
So take ursan and consumables or dont... sure its a bit easier but its not super hard anyway.. so who cares? Id even be willing to do DoA with no ursan whatsoever and a balanced team nowadays. Only rough part is foundry (only because I haven't ironed that one out yet, but it will go down, just as the other 3 did, its only a matter of time)
TBH iv'e had rougher times in some gw:en dungeons on HM then DoA
tmakinen
One thing that people seem to have neglected in the 'UB spoiled DoA' discussion is that the DoA of today is not the same place that it used to be because (1) ANet removed the crippling environmental effects in NM, and (2) consumables (do I have to elaborate?) Therefore, any reasonably well crafted party will now be able to complete it without much hassle. UB is just the simplest of the new cookie cutter memes that are spreading.
Whiskeyjack
I am only going to respond to those who appear to have actually read some of the thread.
@arcant- You left out the biggest advantage Ursan has, that it is not subject to counters. If you feel it should be immune to counters please explain why. Also if we were to follow your reasoning TNTF and Seed of life would not have been nerfed.
@arsie-What you say USED to be true, however the DoA of today is not the DoA of old. Any "average" group willing to try non trinity group's will find a way to complete it. Will it be easy? Probably not, however i honestly don't think it needs to be adjusted any further, otherwise it will no longer be an "elite" mission like it is supposed to be. Other than that i agree with what you are saying.
Re consumables- This was brought up earlier in this thread, and in my view has nothing to do with a discussion on UB and will probably end up derailing the thread. If you want to discuss consumables please open a thread to do so, i will be more than happy to discuss why i think they are a bad thing there.
For a while now i have been asking a simple question, do you think ursan strike should be immune to normal counters and if so, why?
So far the only reasoned responses have been from trobinson97 and a couple of others. Most of other responses could be summed up as "omfg teh elitists want to take my skill away!!!"
@arcant- You left out the biggest advantage Ursan has, that it is not subject to counters. If you feel it should be immune to counters please explain why. Also if we were to follow your reasoning TNTF and Seed of life would not have been nerfed.
@arsie-What you say USED to be true, however the DoA of today is not the DoA of old. Any "average" group willing to try non trinity group's will find a way to complete it. Will it be easy? Probably not, however i honestly don't think it needs to be adjusted any further, otherwise it will no longer be an "elite" mission like it is supposed to be. Other than that i agree with what you are saying.
Re consumables- This was brought up earlier in this thread, and in my view has nothing to do with a discussion on UB and will probably end up derailing the thread. If you want to discuss consumables please open a thread to do so, i will be more than happy to discuss why i think they are a bad thing there.
For a while now i have been asking a simple question, do you think ursan strike should be immune to normal counters and if so, why?
So far the only reasoned responses have been from trobinson97 and a couple of others. Most of other responses could be summed up as "omfg teh elitists want to take my skill away!!!"
DivineEnvoy
Everyone uses a different arguement technique; some of them will tackle your arguement straight on with their reasons, others will take on your logic and break it down. It doesn't have to be the former to be valid.
What most of us who are using the latter technique are really saying is, there is no gaining to what you are doing here. If you really want to balance PVE, sure, nerf Ursan Blessing. While you are at it, how about give us better Heroes/Henches A.I.'s? You need to consider most people don't have guilds to do pve with, and they have to solo with Heroes/Henches, and it's frustrating: A.I.'s will stand in an AoE, and they will continue to even if you flag them. Ursan Blessing just balance the flaws of A.I.'s.
Now onto the Ursan Blessing groups, with multiple existence of Ursan Blessing, you claim it's too overpowered. Unless A.I. flaws are fixed, nerfing is only a negative affection for the community. The only way I see to fix this is limit the number of Ursan Blessing that is used in the group. Wouldn't that just add frustration to the group? We already have the limits to our pve-only skill and elite skill, now we have a group limit.
There's no point in making additional changes, since they will just make more problems.
No one gains anything from what you are saying here. The affection is rather negative. Your intention is rather questionable. If you read your previous posts, you have not been asking that question for while, instead, you were stating how Ursan Blessing is a negative affection for the rest of the community.
What most of us who are using the latter technique are really saying is, there is no gaining to what you are doing here. If you really want to balance PVE, sure, nerf Ursan Blessing. While you are at it, how about give us better Heroes/Henches A.I.'s? You need to consider most people don't have guilds to do pve with, and they have to solo with Heroes/Henches, and it's frustrating: A.I.'s will stand in an AoE, and they will continue to even if you flag them. Ursan Blessing just balance the flaws of A.I.'s.
Now onto the Ursan Blessing groups, with multiple existence of Ursan Blessing, you claim it's too overpowered. Unless A.I. flaws are fixed, nerfing is only a negative affection for the community. The only way I see to fix this is limit the number of Ursan Blessing that is used in the group. Wouldn't that just add frustration to the group? We already have the limits to our pve-only skill and elite skill, now we have a group limit.
There's no point in making additional changes, since they will just make more problems.
No one gains anything from what you are saying here. The affection is rather negative. Your intention is rather questionable. If you read your previous posts, you have not been asking that question for while, instead, you were stating how Ursan Blessing is a negative affection for the rest of the community.
arcant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Mobs are coded with a set of unchanging skills. You might say that the mob's infliction of Dazed inhibits the player's Spells, but the Dazed and the A.I. for using it was pre-established, and the player's usage of Spells is simply subpar.
Another example is the mob's Enchantment Removal that inhibits the full usefulness of Enchantments (e.g. bonding and protective spirit), but once again, the mob A.I. was hardwired, and the player's decision to use Enchantments was with full understanding that they might be removed.
I'll use the analogy of rock-paper-scissors. The A.I. has already thrown a rock. It is up to you to choose. Choosing paper wins rock (you have set up a more superior build), choosing scissors loses to rock (you have set up an inferior build). The A.I. cannot react to you, whatever you choose, because its skills are already established a certain way!
What you mean by "A.I. counter" is simply a conscious decision by the player to use ineffective skills against the A.I. that causes the player to have inherent weaknesses against the mob.
A real life example: Look at the obsidian flesh tank. Does the A.I. counter with non-targeted-spell Enchantment Removal, such as Signet of Disenchantment? No, because its programming doesn't allow it to do so. It is superior to the mob.
Similarly, one of the ways to cripple Ursan Blessing is through energy denial (note that we are talking about PvE and not PvP here, so PvP limitations don't apply). A whole myriad of skills - Debilitating Shot, Quicksand, Signet of Weariness, Energy Surge, etc. can e-deny, and these skills are already being used in PvE. But the current available A.I. we have cannot consciously react and counter UB per se, just like how the A.I. cannot counter the obsidian flesh tank, not unless the programmers change their skills.
Certain skills and builds will always remain superior in certain places, against certain mobs if the A.I. and skills used by the mobs remain the same. A.I. can never counter, so in a way, A.I. doesn't counter anything at all, it just beats your scissors if you so choose to use scissors against its rock. UB just happens to be paper.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
Sure is, but last time I checked (and I nver checked), you weren't an employee of Anet.
When did I ever claim to be an employee of Anet. Please do inform me.
Quote:
When did I ever claim to be an employee of Anet. Please do inform me.
Quote:|
Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Also if we were to follow your reasoning TNTF and Seed of life would not have been nerfed.
Include Necrosis too. Sad to say, Anet does not follow my reasoning. Maybe they have a better reasoning than mine for nerfing those skills. They never provided us with a thorough explanation behind those nerfs. I believe the arguments I put forth are valid, and I also trust that they had their concerns which we might not have been aware of, and these concerns outweighed the opinions of the players and led to their decision. What happens to UB is really ultimately up to them.
GloryFox
URSAN BLESSING
Because sometimes I just need to Leeroy Jenkins my way through an area. 
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcant
(rock-paper-scissors analogy)
Ursan Blessing isn't paper. It's dynamite. It blows up rock, burns paper, and only scissors can do anything to it (by cutting the fuse)).
Clearly, to continue the analogy, e-denial is scissors. But since most mobs are restricted to paper, scissors, rock, that means that instead of having one win, one loss and one draw with traditional throws, you now have two wins and one loss against the monsters. And since we know what the monsters are going to throw in advance, why throw anything but dynamite when you know the monsters aren't going to throw scissors? (No, I don't know either whether this post is supposed to be serious or not...)
trobinson97
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
And since we know what the monsters are going to throw in advance, why throw anything but dynamite when you know the monsters aren't going to throw scissors?
(No, I don't know either whether this post is supposed to be serious or not...) Since you know what the monsters are going to do in advance, you are always going to bring the most efficient build you can think of, no matter if you're using UB, Trinity, or whatever. Someone please tell me what difference does it make how someone chooses to kill monster ai?
WhiteWasabi
NOBODY can hear the monsters complaining. This skill should be NERFED ASAP.
Cleared UW with Ursan Blessing in 2 hours. No other build I have ever seen can do that. Yes it is overpowered. The monsters need a voice. UW 2 hours to COMPLETE ALL QUESTS. Nerf this skill.
Shanaeri Rynale
Not a bad time, although non Usrsan builds can clear FoW in 1hour 1 min and UW in 1 hour 14(probably less). It's not the fastest way to go through an area, but often it's one that requires the least skill and build awareness.
My main negative about ursan is'nt that it's fun(it is) but that it inherently reduces the need for any team build, thought about skills to take or the subtlty and nuances of a build that make it satisfying to play. There's something very rewarding about having a team of all sorts of professions, taking those professions skills and integrating them into a kind of synegy that makes everything dovetail in. playing ursan pretty much removes this skill and pleasure and will have a dumbing down effect over a period of time, that would be a sad thing to happen to a game where skill is perported to be the main focus of the game. Ursan takes any profession, turns it into an ursan profession which results in a bland homogenous build with none of the variences people enjoy about their chosen profession. I've played Ursan a couple of times, and while fun(felt like kilroys knockout challenge) it kinda left me feeling almost dirty - lol. It was the most non mesmer I'd ever played. Fun yes, satisfying no. Ursan by and large does away with this. To my mind it's like PvE IWAY(like old iway that is). Not in itself a bad thing to play every so often, but like any fotm a bad thing for the game and player if played at the expense of other builds.
Lourens
I like to Coöperate with others , using ursan once is fun but all the time no thank you
Auron of Neon
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Originally Posted by Ravi
ursan blessing is not overpowered
lol
lololol lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllll ok i'm finished laughing now. this thread ended on page 1.
Div
Ursan blessing is so broken it makes seed of life look balanced. Bring back the old seed of life!!!
Blonde Warrior
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWasabi
NOBODY can hear the monsters complaining. This skill should be NERFED ASAP.
Cleared UW with Ursan Blessing in 2 hours. No other build I have ever seen can do that. Yes it is overpowered. The monsters need a voice. UW 2 hours to COMPLETE ALL QUESTS. Nerf this skill. So you complete the underworld using ursanway and now ask for it to be nerfed wtf?
trobinson97
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Originally Posted by Blonde Warrior
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I like to Coöperate with others , using ursan once is fun but all the time no thank you
I hope you're not one of the ones hoping it gets nerfed and that this is your basis of argument.
Free Wind
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
Please note that screenshot has no /age.
Even without insainely overpowered godmode skill (which is what Ursan is) and with 5 heroes you can clear UW in 2 - 2.5 hours.
With "Ursan /godmode On" and 8 human absusing it you can steamroll UW in less then 1 hour 30 min 2.35 entire UW, no UB (we never rushed):
Crom The Pale
Ok so we want the game to be harder or we just do not like that it is easier for some people than others???
Why not remove Protective Spirit from the game to take out all the 55 builds? And lets reduce all monk healing by 75% while were at it, then the game would really be a challenge. Ursan Blessing is a great PvE only Elite skill, but it certainly is not the strongest skill in the game nor should it be nerfed. IF you think UW is to ease with it,then don't take it in the first place. Whiskeyjack
@ arcant- Firstly i would like to thank youfor responding in an intelligent manner, there seem's to be a lack of that in this thread.
draxynnic, even though half jokingly, has pretty much summed up why Ursan is a problem. We all aware of the deficincies of the ai in intelligently countering players, however it is still reasonably common(i.e blind, miss hexes etc). You used E-denial as an example of a counter to Ursan, this works in theory not in practice. In PvE this is the rarest and probably weakest type of counter, and in reality makes little difference to the bear, as an example when i initially toyed around with Ursan i used it in slavers, I was surged by two roaring ethers at once, and was back to full energy in a few seconds. In relation to your OF example, i would say that the best counter the ai could make to that is to ignore it(i really do wish anet would upgrade the ai) rather than remove the worhless enchantment. I do understand where you are coming from though, the ai does not use its counters intelligently but they often have them in such numbers that they will hit the correct target, even if only accidently. At the moment Ursan trumps every counter used in PvE, thats what makes it overpowered in my view. @ Crom the pale "Why not remove Protective Spirit?" This was mentioned in another thread about ursan, even though these skills are worlds apart. Protective spirit is absolutley FUNDAMENTAL to balance at this stage, if it was removed it would completley break the game(Izzy admitted so himself). Ursan is just a cheap gimmick that gets around counters for players who are to lazy to play skillfully or play with decent bars.
trobinson97
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Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Ursan is just a cheap gimmick that gets around counters for players who are to lazy to play skillfully or play with decent bars.
Which is why it shoulf be left alone because no one should be told how to play in their own pve instance. If I want to be lazy or not take pve so seriously as to use it as a measure of my skill, why does it matter to other folks?
Whiskeyjack
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
Which is why it shoulf be left alone because no one should be told how to play in their own pve instance. If I want to be lazy or not take pve so seriously as to use it as a measure of my skill, why does it matter to other folks?
One of the key concept's of GW is supposed be that player skill should determine success, now most will realise that has not been true for a while but thats no reason that we should go to the other extreme, that player skill is irrelevant.
Shanaeri Rynale
in Isolation you are right. However in the wider aspect of the game it's potentially damaging. Why?
Because players in general want the easy route, they don't want to learn the skills and just run the same thing over and over and over again. Ursan and it's cousins throw away the many thousands of build combinations in favor of just 5 + a limited scope of healing builds. In short it turns a skill based game into an FPS. Since people in general will take the easy way, if available then it naturally follows that the 'easy way' will grow in popularity leaving those who want to use other builds out in the cold. Now in a good guild/alliance environment this is less of an issue but the temptation is always there. The effect on the PvE game will be more and more people turning away from using skills and builds to suit their profession and relying on Ursan et al. Ursan does more than greatly reduce the reliance on builds, but it creates a new quasi profession, 'the ursan' which dlutes the borders between professions even more and thus creates even more simplification and therefore stagnation. Stagnation in any kind of MMO is very bad, and in it's own way and for the reasons above Ursan adds to it.
trobinson97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
One of the key concept's of GW is supposed be that player skill should determine success, now most will realise that has not been true for a while but thats no reason that we should go to the other extreme, that player skill is irrelevant.
Player skill in PvE goes no further than deciding what build is best to beat the set builds of the monster AI in whatever area you choose. After that, you're just pressing buttons anyway. Ursan doesn't take that away from anyone, it may just lessen the amount of buttons you press seeing as there are only 3 attacks on a UB bar.
Also, if playing with a different bar is important to you, UB doesn't take that away, as you can use whatever you want. Make the game as hard, or as easy as you like, but I really can't get behind the reasoning of trying to decide how others should think or play. Like you said, the whole thing about skill>time went out of the window when skills became tied to title ranks. It only remains true in PvP, where it really belongs. Balance in PvE is nigh impossible, the ai will always have a set build and you will always spec to beat it. That's not balance, that's pve-ing. Whiskeyjack
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobinson97
Player skill in PvE goes no further than deciding what build is best to beat the set builds of the monster AI in whatever area you choose. After that, you're just pressing buttons anyway. Ursan doesn't take that away from anyone, it may just lessen the amount of buttons you press seeing as there are only 3 attacks on a UB bar.
Also, if playing with a different bar is important to you, UB doesn't take that away, as you can use whatever you want. Make the game as hard, or as easy as you like, but I really can't get behind the reasoning of trying to decide how others should think or play. Like you said, the whole thing about skill>time went out of the window when skills became tied to title ranks. It only remains true in PvP, where it really belongs. Balance in PvE is nigh impossible, the ai will always have a set build and you will always spec to beat it. That's not balance, that's pve-ing. I'll take your post with a pinch of salt since I am pretty sure you just enjoy winding people up. I am not claiming that PvE is a high skill activity( though not as skillless as you are suggesting), but that does not mean checks and balances are not required. The comparison between PvP and PvE is pretty worthless tbh, the two are basically different games at this point and PvP has significant balance problem's of its own. Is skill really still the determining factor in PvP, sure though thats probably less true now than it was in the past. Shanaeri summed it up better than I have managed in his/her post, if you can't see the reasoning behind that post I guess we just need to accept that we will never agree on this issue.
trobinson97
This has nothing to with winding people up. True, I see Shanaeri's point, but in the end it still comes down to one person's opinion trying to force itself on to everyone else's play style. For example, if all I do is use Ursan Blessing, will I get bored with it after a while? Most likely yes, but that's just me. Just because I'm not bored with it does not mean I am going to go out and say everyone is bored with it. What's stagnant in the game for me may be refreshing for someone else, so why should I force my opinion on them. Even if it is stagnant for them and they still choose to play it, it's none of my affair.
I've already accepted that we will never agree on this issue because I believe a player's right to choose how he/she wants to play overrules my desire that they play the way I want them to.
phan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Wind
Even without insainely overpowered godmode skill (which is what Ursan is) and with 5 heroes you can clear UW in 2 - 2.5 hours.
With "Ursan /godmode On" and 8 human absusing it you can steamroll UW in less then 1 hour 30 min 2.35 entire UW, no UB (we never rushed): [note] You did use the consumables and they last 30minutes each .. x 5 for the 2 hours and a half that get quite costy . And you have 2 player monks .. something that not everyone can have. I say .. abuse this skill if you feel alright with it
Simath
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
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Sure is, but last time I checked (and I nver checked), you weren't an employee of Anet. Just because the government can make a law doesn't mean the civilians can make them. Just because NFL execs can create rules and decide what's aloowed or not doesn't mean the players can do the same thing. Good try though. |
Originally Posted by trobinson97
Like you said, the whole thing about skill>time went out of the window when skills became tied to title ranks.
Not true. You can still be skilled and have a carefree attitude towards titles.
trobinson97
[QUOTE=Simath]That is so inaccurate. If you don't know how to efficiently monk then how do you think your party is going survive? If you don't know how to control aggro then you're not a good warrior. If you don't understand that keeping party members in your bubble is what chants/shouts become effective then you don't know how to play Paragon. There's a lot more to Player skill than the skillbar, saying otherwise is sheer ignorance. If you can't stay on the called target your not good. You can't just throw a skill bar together that will work in that area and expect to be good.[quote]
Every time Anet nerfs a skill they are deciding how others should play would you like them to stop and let the game be played in complete disarray? Everytime a player joins a PuG and that teams says you MUST run UB is that not telling that player how to play the game? I believe it is.
Finally posting like grown up eh? Good job. It's not inaccurate though. I've played long enough and been in enough bad Pugs with bad monks and still survived to know it doesn't take a skilled monk to ensure survivability. Every class has their own self heal for a reason. Can't stay on the called target? Lol, press T and spacebar, that doesn't take skill. I've played and succeeded with many "bad" warriors to know that you can indeed throw a skill bar together and be "good" (i.e. beat the quest, mission) in PvE. Quote: |
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Once again saying that skills can be slapped on a skillbar and them not requiring skill is like saying, oh and look what I'm about to do, an NFL player being given the perfect play to counter the defensive/offensive formation and being called a good player. Just because they were running the right play at the right time against a weak opposing formation doesn't mean that player is skilled. That or the individual is surrounded by good players.|
Not true. You can still be skilled and have a carefree attitude towards titles.
Now you're just making my point for me. Choose to do what you like.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
Sure is, but last time I checked (and I nver checked), you weren't an employee of Anet. Just because the government can make a law doesn't mean the civilians can make them. Just because NFL execs can create rules and decide what's aloowed or not doesn't mean the players can do the same thing. Good try though.
I don't think that quite applies; don't run what the pug wants and they kick you.
trobinson97
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
I don't think that quite applies; don't run what the pug wants and they kick you.
Simath
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
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Huh, Which only proves once again, that it doesn't always take skill, especially in PvE.|
Originally Posted by trobionson97
Just because the government can make a law doesn't mean the civilians can make them.
You clearly know very little of democracy. The government serves the will of the people and in a democracy people are given a voice in deciding what government should do and not do. Bills are a perfect example of civilians being active in law. So next time you attempt to make a point you should at least have the slightest clue was to what you are talking about.
Without people for the government to serve there would wouldn't be one. Without a player base for Anet to serve their would be no GW's. Also next time keep weak RL analogies out of your points.
trobinson97
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Originally Posted by Simath
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Originally Posted by Simath
Every time Anet nerfs a skill they are deciding how others should play
Now, I know it doesn't take the highest levels of reading comprehension to know that my comment was in reference to players trying to dictate how others play. Surely you knew that (I hope but you never know), but whatever. Quote:
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