29 Oct 2007 at 04:21 - 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadia Roark
The point here seems to be that Ursan doesn't do this by itself. Sure, yeah, if you run three or four of them things get a little easy, but the same thing can be said of running 3-4 invoke spikers, or 3-4 mixed melee spikers, 3-4 rangerspikers.... you get the point.
Except Ursan is immune to all forms of shutdown outside of say Distracting Shot or Diversion.
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Also, it should be noted that in order to acheive maximum effectiveness, you have to do a fair bit of grinding, or turn in a couple HM books to get that title up. You have to work for it--it's not like they're just giving everyone an uber awesome skill to use at their leisure. They way some people are talking here makes it sound like ANet is handing out godmode cheats to everyone that asks for them.
For a game that is supposed to be about skill over time, this really kills all of those casual players who won't get into a group because their norn rank isn't high enough to Ursan effectively. If Ursan eventually becomes the way to play the game for everyone it's going to become so dismal.
29 Oct 2007 at 04:25 - 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Except Ursan is immune to all forms of shutdown outside of say Distracting Shot or Diversion.
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And, to be fair, energy denial. But that's just a question of knowing not to use it against certain opponents.
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For a game that is supposed to be about skill over time, this really kills all of those casual players who won't into a group because their norn rank isn't high enough to Ursan effectively. If Ursan eventually becomes the way to play the game for everyone it's going to become so dismal.
Pretty much what I was trying to say. Having to "work for it" makes it worse as it raises the spectre of grind becoming a prerequisite.
29 Oct 2007 at 06:17 - 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
For a game that is supposed to be about skill over time, this really kills all of those casual players who won't into a group because their norn rank isn't high enough to Ursan effectively. If Ursan eventually becomes the way to play the game for everyone it's going to become so dismal.
But this problem is more due to skills being linked to allegiance titles rather than Ursan Blessing itself. We had the stupid LB rank discrimination back in Nightfall already, this is just ANet continuing on with the trend. (If there's title grind for PVE skills in GW2, I really wonder whether I'd buy it)
Many of the PVE skills seem to be balanced around rank 5 or so and become a bit overpowered at rank 10.
29 Oct 2007 at 06:50 - 97
Please don't let other people use their preferred builds in PvE, it's much more fun for me if they play the way I do. After all, elite missions in Guild Wars are my only way of raising my self esteem.
29 Oct 2007 at 12:56 - 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobinson97
So your point is it's not immune to all forms of shutdown? I agree.
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Canceling an Ursan Strike from an earshot away from an enemy using Distracting Shot is not difficult at all, especially when you're expecting it. You don't even have to cancel against the Diversion, just wand to get some energy back instead.
I play a paragon using Focused Anger and Save Yourselves! (which really needs a hit too) and even though it's the most imbalanced thing PvE wise I am still subject to a lot of common shutdown seen in most mobs.
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That's a big if, and I really wouldn't know what to think if Anet nerfed something based on someone's hypothetical situation. As it is, I haven't seen anyone asking specifically for Ursan in your build. It seems to be the kind of thing that people like to do in order to gain some kind of ridiculous evidence in their calls for nerfs. There's a really simple solution for all those who feel it's overpowered, they just don't want to make the choice for themselves, they want Anet to do it for them and as a result it becomes a negative in the eyes of the majority who were not abusing it.
Last three days I've been in DoA forming groups all I've seen were Ursanway groups forming and that was just in International. Besides that it doesn't matter; the fact that Joe Whammo who can play the game for extended periods of time has access to a stronger skill than someone who doesn't.
29 Oct 2007 at 13:50 - 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Canceling an Ursan Strike from an earshot away from an enemy using Distracting Shot is not difficult at all, especially when you're expecting it. You don't even have to cancel against the Diversion, just wand to get some energy back instead.
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Not everyone is on your skill level so I still agree that it's not immune to all forms of shut down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
I play a paragon using Focused Anger and Save Yourselves! (which really needs a hit too) and even though it's the most imbalanced thing PvE wise I am still subject to a lot of common shutdown seen in most mobs.
Lol, see this is what I mean. You guys plays what you call "imbalanced builds" then complain about them being imbalanced and needing to be nerfed. What the ****? Why does this really need to be nerfed, and if it does, why do you continue to use it? Is it that reaching argument that you want to use the best combination of skills for a given task? If that's so, why would you want it to not work as good? Also, if you really want something that doesn't work as well, then why not just use another build? I can't even comprehend the selfishness of a person to want everyone to not have fun just because you just can't decide to stop using (and complaining about for Pete's sake) your "imbalanced" build.
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Originally Posted by Ractoh
Last three days I've been in DoA forming groups all I've seen were Ursanway groups forming and that was just in International. Besides that it doesn't matter; the fact that Joe Whammo who can play the game for extended periods of time has access to a stronger skill than someone who doesn't.
As funny as that is (I just left DoA int and didn't see much of anyone there, it's early yet though) that still doesn't speak to the idea of "Ursanway" becoming the way to play for "everyone in the game". So even if some folks decide to use it in DoA I say big deal, I really have no desire to govern how people play in their instance. You play the game the way you want to play it, let me play it the way I want to.
Is that it though? Is that the main point you're making that people are using it in DoA that makes you call for PvE nerfs? Is it that people who do DoA regularly don't want new people coming and getting the same rewards but not having to use the cookie cutter build THEY deem acceptable? I am not picking or jabbing but I really want to know. Is it that people who you might not feel are as good as killing the game's AI as you are now having an easier time really making you annoyed? Why would you even care? Who are you to try to govern the way anyone else plays. I really wouldn't have any problems in understanding were these skills available in PvP, the actual competitive part of the game. DoA is not competition, it's there for people to have fun killing the AI. Why is how someone else does it so important?
29 Oct 2007 at 14:18 - 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobinson97
Not everyone is on your skill level so I still agree that it's not immune to all forms of shut down.
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Skill level? There's a difference between skill and the common sense of not getting your skills Diversioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobinson97
Lol, see this is what I mean. You guys plays what you call "imbalanced builds" then complain about them being imbalanced and needing to be nerfed. What the ****? Why does this really need to be nerfed, and if it does, why do you continue to use it? Is it that reaching argument that you want to use the best combination of skills for a given task? If that's so, why would you want it to not work as good? Also, if you really want something that doesn't work as well, then why not just use another build? I can't even comprehend the selfishness of a person to want everyone to not have fun just because you just can't decide to stop using (and complaining about for Pete's sake) your "imbalanced" build.
Racthoh mentioned he played a SY paragon and said it needed hit. So what? He is right, but there is a difference between SY and a skill that numerous players in a team can run to rip through any area. If you want to compare SY to Ursanway go right ahead but get used to not being right. SY can be easily countered. Any anti-melee that will shut down a paragons adrenaline gain will hurt and look at DoA it is full of anti-melee hexes. Now tell me there is an equal amount of shutdown for Ursanway. Please I would really like to know.
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
As funny as that is (I just left DoA int and didn't see much of anyone there, it's early yet though) that still doesn't speak to the idea of "Ursanway" becoming the way to play for "everyone in the game". So even if some folks decide to use it in DoA I say big deal, I really have no desire to govern how people play in their instance. You play the game the way you want to play it, let me play it the way I want to.
The majority of teams I have seen in DoA are purely Ursanway and the reason it will become the way to play is because it turns DoA (one of the games most elite areas) into a playground for anyone with Ursan Blessing. So when the elite areas in the game become simply a joke we should just watch and wait a month until it's no longer worth setting foot there?
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
Is that it though? Is that the main point you're making that people are using it in DoA that makes you call for PvE nerfs? Is it that people who do DoA regularly don't want new people coming and getting the same rewards but not having to use the cookie cutter build THEY deem acceptable? I am not picking or jabbing but I really want to know. Is it that people who you might not feel are as good as killing the game's AI as you are now having an easier time really making you annoyed? Why would you even care? Who are you to try to govern the way anyone else plays. I really wouldn't have any problems in understanding were these skills available in PvP, the actual competitive part of the game. DoA is not competition, it's there for people to have fun killing the AI. Why is how someone else does it so important?
Lol. First off most the teams who accomplished DoA in between the Priest glitching and Ursanway did not run the cookie cutter or holy trinity garbage scrubs swear by. The reason people are calling for nerfs is because it is simply over powered. Let me say this one more time. When an elite area becomes a children's playground there is something wrong there. It was made elite for a reason, if it was meant to have just anyone rampage through it they would have made it that way in the first place.
29 Oct 2007 at 14:19 - 101
Lol, Seed of Life is still very usable. Use Glyph of Renewal + Blessed Aura + max rank Seed and u can maintain it forever.
Now think what happens of 2 bonders who both Life Bond everyone and cast Balthazars on themselves... and start using the above combo!
+60 health to every partymember whenever someone is hit. All damage is reduced by 50% and the monks damage from LB is reduced by 90hp.
Still this has only been theoretically, cos no monks i know beside me have max Sunspear and GoR...
29 Oct 2007 at 14:22 - 102
What I don't understand is how the concept of skill over grind is brought up in this thread. When skills like Ursan Blessing require very little of both. You can go on all you like about how Ursan Blessing can be shut down, but being reliastic it very rarely is and it can match, and most of the time out DPS a normal warrior build that can be shut down. After this the only real reason to run an actual warrior build is for utility - now when you would kill things in a matter of seconds anyway as a bear the utility becomes a little more pointless.
Save Yourselves is another ridiculous skill, they may aswell have just added "idqdd" cheat codes to the game.
In my opinion the PVE only skills should be more on the same power level as "You Move Like a Dwarf" - clearly way too strong to be in the PVP game as even elite but not god mode in PVE (which no matter how much you deny or whatever loopholes you look for that is in fact what Ursan Blessing and SY are).
It is true that you do play the game how you want to play it, but I don't believe God Mode options should be at peoples disposal, which they currently are, unless they are really horrible.
29 Oct 2007 at 14:54 - 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesitsrob
It is true that you do play the game how you want to play it, but I don't believe God Mode options should be at peoples disposal, which they currently are, unless they are really horrible.
I gave up arguing with some people here.. If ANET implements /godmode command and somebody complains it's a bit.. well.. just a little bit overpowered... there will be 50+ responses a day saying 'go to hell, you dont like /godmode, dont use it!!' "OMG We love /godmode!!", "/Godmode is not overpowered, my D-Slash build owns it", "If you nerf /godmode i'll quit!!", "/godmode is the only thing that keeps me intrested in playing this game", "I demand ANET, implement /godmode in presearing!!! it's too hard without it there, I HATE YOU ANET!!" ,"you hardcore games who have no life, how you dare to ask for a nerf!!" etc, etc
29 Oct 2007 at 14:54 - 104
yeah my idea exactly, no reason to turn an elite area into a playground. Not because I got something to win/lose with it, not because I pug in DOA at all, but it's just pointless :P.
29 Oct 2007 at 15:02 - 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Wind
I gave up arguing with some people here.. If ANET implements /godmode command and somebody complains it's a bit.. well.. just a little bit overpowered... there will be 50+ responses a day saying 'go to hell, you dont like /godmode, dont use it!!' "OMG We love /godmode!!", "/Godmode is not overpowered, my D-Slash build owns it", "If you nerf /godmode i'll quit!!", "/godmode is the only thing that keeps me intrested in playing this game", "I demand ANET, implement /godmode in presearing!!! it's too hard without it there, I HATE YOU ANET!!" ,"you hardcore games who have no life, how you dare to ask for a nerf!!" etc, etc
Haha, that is a hillariously accurate summary of this thread. (and many other thread too I guess)
29 Oct 2007 at 15:59 - 106
Why complain when you can be doing FoW right now and making money!?
29 Oct 2007 at 16:13 - 107
If you dont want to use it don't. I personally get a good laugh out of owning a mob of 10 lvl 28's in seconds. If you think it's lame dont use it, most people dont from what I've seen.
29 Oct 2007 at 17:28 - 108
EDIT: I've thought about this a little bit more and I've decided that Ursan Blessing promotes PuGging by making it wildly more powerful than almost any H/H alternative. This is probably a good thing right now but might turn into a Not-So-Good thing eventually. It bears (hehe) watching, but ANet is probably the only entity among us who can gather reliable data about this. If Ursan comes to dominate the endgame (moreso than any other skill/build has, but remember that DoA was pretty cookie-cutter at first too), I wouldn't be opposed to some reworks.
30 Oct 2007 at 01:30 - 109
Ok for those that want a nerf, just what are you looking for?
I mean as it stands now you get +hp and armor and some nice dmg, however you have 0 healing, 0 blocking and once active youve 30 seconds to wait till you can shut it down and then you need to rebuild your energy and adren.
Now lets look at the dmg out put. At max its 150 every 3 seconds or 50dps on the primary attack skill.
The secondary attack skill is 135, before armor, every 10 seconds or 13.5 dps. + a knockdown.
Now as many other war's have mentioned there are far higher dps builds for wars and one can add several knockdown skills on any war build with ease.
So how do you balance it and keep it still a viable ELITE pve skill??
Reduce dmg but add healing and blocking?
30 Oct 2007 at 01:49 - 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Ok for those that want a nerf, just what are you looking for?
I mean as it stands now you get +hp and armor and some nice dmg, however you have 0 healing, 0 blocking and once active youve 30 seconds to wait till you can shut it down and then you need to rebuild your energy and adren.
Now lets look at the dmg out put. At max its 150 every 3 seconds or 50dps on the primary attack skill.
The secondary attack skill is 135, before armor, every 10 seconds or 13.5 dps. + a knockdown.
Now as many other war's have mentioned there are far higher dps builds for wars and one can add several knockdown skills on any war build with ease.
So how do you balance it and keep it still a viable ELITE pve skill??
Reduce dmg but add healing and blocking?
0 healing and zero blocking? Any decent warrior i play with would have neither on a normal warrior bar anyway. The biggest prolem i have with ursan is not the dmg so much as the impunity with which you can deal the dmg. Blind and anti melee hexes have no effect which is broken imo.
The other thing i dislike about the skill is it totally dumbs down the game, GW has always been about coming up with skill bars to deal with whatever situation's you might encounter. Ursan effectivley replaces your skill bar and makes it totally unecessary to put any thought in to your build whatsoever safe in the knowledge that you can beat any area in the game with this skill with no thought or ability required.
Personally i would like the skill to be totally reworked to be more like dervish form's, give it some reasonably powerful effects and the ability to synergize with the rest of a skill bar. That won't happen however so i would settle for its attacks requiring to "hit" so it can be subject to typical anti melee.
30 Oct 2007 at 04:29 - 111
Personally, I don't mind it. Is it overpowered? Sure. Is it important that its overpowered? Not really. You don't wanna use it? DON'T USE IT! Problem solved.
Basically, the only problem I could see here is that it goes completely against the paradigm of GW, and creates a situation where time spent is a hell of a lot more important that skill. A R4 norn sees the damage an R10 norn is doing, and thinks, "hey, thats cool". Then he goes to wiki and figures out he has to kill the facet bosses a few hundred times, rolls his eyes, and uninstalls the game.
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Originally Posted by ArenaNet
Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing
Yeah... right... you just keep trying to convince yourself thats true. Basically, I don't care if the skills are overpowered or not. I do care that a newly created character has to grind for months to be on par with the player who's been around for a while. Guild Wars wasn't supposed to be like that.
30 Oct 2007 at 07:20 - 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Wind
I gave up arguing with some people here.. If ANET implements /godmode command and somebody complains it's a bit.. well.. just a little bit overpowered... there will be 50+ responses a day saying 'go to hell, you dont like /godmode, dont use it!!' "OMG We love /godmode!!", "/Godmode is not overpowered, my D-Slash build owns it", "If you nerf /godmode i'll quit!!", "/godmode is the only thing that keeps me intrested in playing this game", "I demand ANET, implement /godmode in presearing!!! it's too hard without it there, I HATE YOU ANET!!" ,"you hardcore games who have no life, how you dare to ask for a nerf!!" etc, etc
You have summed up these entire boards
30 Oct 2007 at 21:48 - 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
You have summed up these entire boards
I would have to agree. People complain about how good their skills work, then the levelheaded people reply with Stop complaining and stop using said skills.
30 Oct 2007 at 22:43 - 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobinson97
I would have to agree. People complain about how good their skills work, then the levelheaded people reply with Stop complaining and stop using said skills.
No, not quite.
You're not level headed, and you have to come as close to cheating as is possible to have a chance because of how bad you actually are at Guild Wars, if you think Ursan is fine you obviously fail at balance.
Understand this, we choose not to use said skill, but we don't think scrub nobodies should be able to succeed beacause of said poorly designed skills either
30 Oct 2007 at 23:55 - 115
You are only looking at 50ish dps from bear form well specced. I can push 40-50dps as a warrior with just an IAS. Give me dragonslash and FGJ and good night, 70dps (peaking with periods on 90 dps.) Furthermore I still have plenty of slots to stack in a conjur (more DPS) and deep wound.
Bear form is amazing if you don't know how to make a skill bar. If you really know how to make a skill bar, bear form pales in comparison to potential of your skill bar.
30 Oct 2007 at 23:58 - 116
I think I am pretty level heaaded, I mean, I haven't called anyone a scrub nobody yet. I am also content to sit back and let people enjoy the game how they want to enjoy it and let me being accused of coming close to cheating (especially seeing a I have not used the build in question) roll off my back like water off a duck's.
I never took Balance 101, so I've never taken psych classes either but it's easy to see that some of you (yes you included) suffer from low self image and need to call names to make yourself seem better somehow in your own eyes. You also use Guild Wars as a medium to do it.
You think because you completed what Anet calls an "Elite" mission without certain skills like Ursan Blessing that it makes you elite. Other players using other skills have to be inferior to you, and to get that point across, you call them scrubs, nobodies and noobs because now that they are doing the same thing you are doing (completing "elite" missions), and you don't feel as special anymore.
Or maybe it's because as more people complete the mission, the prices of those precious tormented relics will drop, and you won't be able to sell you gem sets and armbraces and tormented shields for so much. After all, if I have to be a loser in real life at least let me be a rich loser in Guild Wars. It's not something that damages the game, lower prices on items are ALWAYS a good thing no matter what the gold hoarders say. Pugging is ALWAYS a good thing no matter what the H+Hrs (myself included) say. It seems like "Ursanway" as you guys like to put it is contributing to one and will contribute to the other.
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Originally Posted by yesitsrob
we don't think scrub nobodies should be able to succeed
That pretty much says it all. You don't want people to succeed in a video game because they won't use the builds you feel they should to do it? How sad are you? For shame.
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we choose not to use said skills
Who's we? You can only speak for yourself, Racthoh confesses to using FA+SY and from all accounts of nerf hunters it's imba too.
What build have you ever come up with for any mission that wasn't made with the thought that it would be easier? Every build made for this game and especially the "elite" areas are made with one goal in mind, to make the areas easier. So some group goes 1-2-3-1-3-2 and your group goes 1-2-3-4-1-6-2, you're still doing the same thing, trying to steamroll the area. I think I'll take my scrub nobody self to DoA tonight and try out "Ursanway" for myself. Sounds like a good time to be had.
31 Oct 2007 at 00:30 - 117
I guess the funniest part of this is that the people who don't like Ursan don't have to use it. They know this. Its not about that. The resentment they have comes from knowing that someone else can use that skill. They hate that. They figured out a way to do certain missions using what they had, and they can't stand the fact that others now can use another way to do the same mission, perhaps even better than them. Its their game after all. How dare anyone else do something another way. Who cares if they will never see them using it (since its pve only), its the mere thought that they use it.
31 Oct 2007 at 00:40 - 118
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Originally Posted by Citadel Runner
I guess the funniest part of this is that the people who don't like Ursan don't have to use it. They know this. Its not about that. The resentment they have comes from knowing that someone else can use that skill. They hate that. They figured out a way to do certain missions using what they had, and they can't stand the fact that others now can use another way to do the same mission, perhaps even better than them. Its their game after all. How dare anyone else do something another way. Who cares if they will never see them using it (since its pve only), its the mere thought that they use it.
Lol, exactly. The balance issue is a facade to hide the fact that their egos are the ONLY things being ruined here. PvE is sirrus (serious) binness(business) apparently.
31 Oct 2007 at 00:49 - 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warskull
You are only looking at 50ish dps from bear form well specced. I can push 40-50dps as a warrior with just an IAS. Give me dragonslash and FGJ and good night, 70dps (peaking with periods on 90 dps.) Furthermore I still have plenty of slots to stack in a conjur (more DPS) and deep wound.
Bear form is amazing if you don't know how to make a skill bar. If you really know how to make a skill bar, bear form pales in comparison to potential of your skill bar.
Sorry but you are wrong. URSAN blessing ignores armor....Goes right through it. Plus, its a skill and if you use it with CELERITY you are doing WAY more damage than your warr build.
This skill is WAY overpowered. Cleared Underworld with 5 people 3 henchies in 2 hours. That is way faster than any other builds I have ever seen.
31 Oct 2007 at 00:59 - 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobinson97
Please don't let other people use their preferred builds in PvE, it's much more fun for me if they play the way I do. After all, elite missions in Guild Wars are my only way of raising my self esteem.
That about sums it up.If you dont like a skill dont use it.Real simple.
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