Back before ANet allowed people to ping their build to the chat, it seemed groups were formed easier and had no hassle. Now you get kicked if you aren't using the "oh-so popular" build for that set of 2 weeks or that month.
ANet should not have added this feature; it is ruining people's game-play because people are being jerks and kicking for an unpopular build. I have met quite a few people with some really nice builds, but the leader thought it was a peice of junk because it wasn't on wiki (not like that doesn't get your attention). What is even more upsetting is that people are kicking people from groups BECAUSE it is not on wiki -- don't forget some wiki builds are peices of crap.
People need to stop judging builds. As long as the job at hand is being done, everything should be good. As long as a monk heals/prots, an elementalist does good damage, or a ritualist spirit-spams/whatever the build won't matter. I don't see why people get SOOO worked up about how a build is bad and people should be banned from GW because they are not 1337ists.
ANet could fix this by either:
A. taking it out sometime soon
B. leaving it out of GW2
C. *both*
It is sad how GW has gone from amazing to a little pesky.
Post your thoughts?
EDIT:
it's not my builds that I'm getting kicked for... it's other people's that seems somewhat good for a group. Just clearning that up.
"Ping your build" problems
Rexion
Karyuu
No, I like being able to ping builds, and thus very quickly and easily share them between friends and guildies. It's certainly not Anet's fault if some people are being dipshits about it, and it's not a design flaw by far. I'd very much like this feature to stay.
kazjun
As long as you're not running some gimp build I don't see how this is a problem. If the party leader's just a nazi wiki monkey then either change your build or find a new party. You probably wouldn't have had much fun with him around anyway.
Rexion
I see what you are saying about for guilds and friends... i agree with that.
But I was in a guild that one of the people was a build-nazi. Someone would ping the build, and she would rip it apart... ending with a build that most people find even worse.
But I was in a guild that one of the people was a build-nazi. Someone would ping the build, and she would rip it apart... ending with a build that most people find even worse.
Jetdoc
You could simply do the immature thing and...
1. Ping the build template that the leader wants.
2. Switch to your build template before you leave town.
3. Ping your build after you leave town.
It's then the leader's choice to start over or go ahead and see what you can do with your build.
I know, it's a pretty crappy thing to do, but if it really irks you...
1. Ping the build template that the leader wants.
2. Switch to your build template before you leave town.
3. Ping your build after you leave town.
It's then the leader's choice to start over or go ahead and see what you can do with your build.
I know, it's a pretty crappy thing to do, but if it really irks you...
Biostem
The flexibility of this game is a double-edged sword. Because you can change your load out at a moment's notice, people will ask you to make use of it.
I understand your frustration w/ this, as a build you like playing and find effective may be torn apart by some strict leader who wants things his way. The only advice I can give is to either work w/ that leader, or move on to another team. It isn't worth playing on a team where you hate the leader, but neither are you another one of his heroes to pick and choose what he wants.
I understand your frustration w/ this, as a build you like playing and find effective may be torn apart by some strict leader who wants things his way. The only advice I can give is to either work w/ that leader, or move on to another team. It isn't worth playing on a team where you hate the leader, but neither are you another one of his heroes to pick and choose what he wants.
Lady Lozza
Rexion - I'm going to take what some might consider the "elitist" stance here. Being able to see builds is a HUGE help because it helps me understand what is on the skill bar of the people I'm playing with. It is sooo much easier than having to type it.
Do not kid yourself, kicking for silly skills happened before this feature was introduced. I've been part of teams, even team leader, in high end areas and seen and kicked those who refuse to list their build when asked. I personally have never kicked for a bad skill bar, but have asked for it to be changed and if the player got defensive to the point of rudeness they have been kicked.
Why? If we are playing Urgoz as B/P then the rangers in the team had best be B/P rangers. If they refuse or argue, then you can bet they will be unpleasent to play with.
Monks with no energy management have always given me pause, and warriors with frenzy, heal sig, and mending DO occur.
I suppose the issue is this: the problem is NOT GW it is the player base. Those who kick without discussing what they think is the problem first are probably people you don't want to team with anyway.
Summary - problem exists between keyboard and chair.
Do not kid yourself, kicking for silly skills happened before this feature was introduced. I've been part of teams, even team leader, in high end areas and seen and kicked those who refuse to list their build when asked. I personally have never kicked for a bad skill bar, but have asked for it to be changed and if the player got defensive to the point of rudeness they have been kicked.
Why? If we are playing Urgoz as B/P then the rangers in the team had best be B/P rangers. If they refuse or argue, then you can bet they will be unpleasent to play with.
Monks with no energy management have always given me pause, and warriors with frenzy, heal sig, and mending DO occur.
I suppose the issue is this: the problem is NOT GW it is the player base. Those who kick without discussing what they think is the problem first are probably people you don't want to team with anyway.
Summary - problem exists between keyboard and chair.
Antheus
When I join a group, I ping my build.
If you want me to run something different, say what you want, or post the template.
If I don't like it, I'll leave.
It's really easy, no point in wasting time over simple things.
I have no problem with them. I know my builds, know why they work. If anyone has a problem with that, their loss.
Well, here we disagree. I've seen some bad monk builds. They were actually *BAAAHD*. There's areas and zones and missions and quests where certain details matter.
The problem comes not when people refuse to change the build, but when they refuse to accept that certain builds won't work, or that they are lacking a certain skill, or that another skill is better choice.
If you want me to run something different, say what you want, or post the template.
If I don't like it, I'll leave.
It's really easy, no point in wasting time over simple things.
Quote:
| What is even more upsetting is that people are kicking people from groups BECAUSE it is not on wiki |
Quote:
| People need to stop judging builds. As long as the job at hand is being done, everything should be good. As long as a monk heals/prots, |
The problem comes not when people refuse to change the build, but when they refuse to accept that certain builds won't work, or that they are lacking a certain skill, or that another skill is better choice.
jezz
So can i ask what build you use that gets you in a position of being judged then ultimately kicked...??
most groups will ask you to change a couple of skills/spells first..
reason they get worked up over it is because as an example 55monks in FoW slipping into teams then let team die and go off on there own and solo..
most groups will ask you to change a couple of skills/spells first..
reason they get worked up over it is because as an example 55monks in FoW slipping into teams then let team die and go off on there own and solo..
Rexion
Ok, just to clear this up...
I'm not complaining that I'm getting kicked from guilds. I'm using a simple WoH build that I built and a few people I asked for advise agreed with.
I just hate to see some good builds be kicked from a group because of a jerk-of-a leader.
I'm not complaining that I'm getting kicked from guilds. I'm using a simple WoH build that I built and a few people I asked for advise agreed with.
I just hate to see some good builds be kicked from a group because of a jerk-of-a leader.
Brianna
Wow. I've never been kicked from a group for my build, and I generally never ever run cookie cutter builds, and never builds off wiki (ugh) I just make my own.
Must be you then. Btw I love this feature, so glad it came.
Must be you then. Btw I love this feature, so glad it came.
Martin Alvito
The beauty of build pinging is that it permits selection on both sides of the equation such that players are happier:
1) If the leader wants a specific build (or something close to it) in a slot, and another player refuses to run it, the problem gets resolved.
2) If you're running a good build that's non-standard but will get the job done (perhaps more effectively than the standard), and the leader can't figure that out, you probably didn't want to play with that leader anyway.
This DOES tend to crimp imagination, which isn't a great thing. However, I can tell you from experience in Hard Mode Deep that if you, as leader, come up with a team concept that is vastly superior to the existing standard, and you PuG good players, your concept will VERY rapidly replace the existing standard.
Upshot: if you want to innovate, do it as a team leader or find a good leader that trusts you, innovate and let the organizer organize.
1) If the leader wants a specific build (or something close to it) in a slot, and another player refuses to run it, the problem gets resolved.
2) If you're running a good build that's non-standard but will get the job done (perhaps more effectively than the standard), and the leader can't figure that out, you probably didn't want to play with that leader anyway.
This DOES tend to crimp imagination, which isn't a great thing. However, I can tell you from experience in Hard Mode Deep that if you, as leader, come up with a team concept that is vastly superior to the existing standard, and you PuG good players, your concept will VERY rapidly replace the existing standard.
Upshot: if you want to innovate, do it as a team leader or find a good leader that trusts you, innovate and let the organizer organize.
elektra_lucia
I think your friends must fail at the game Rexion. That is my thoughts.
Waste of peoples time.
Quote:
| I don't see why people get SOOO worked up about how a build is bad and people should be banned from GW because they are not 1337ists. |
HawkofStorms
Its not a.net's fault that the community is full of jerks.
mrmango
I disagree with the OP.
And remember kids, cookie-cutter != bad.
And remember kids, cookie-cutter != bad.
TGgold
I always ping when I enter a team.
Normally I run things that are strange. Normally I run things I've also tested with H/H to make sure they're not utter crap.
If somebody is running something horribly bad, I have no problem asking them to change. Normally I offer a reason for my wanting to ask them to change. Especially when people just have random skills with no synergy. If there's something I'm missing, then I expect them to correct me and tell me why I'm wrong. If I'm satisfied, then I'll let it go.
This is mostly only in higher-level areas of play where I *expect* people to have the skills and materials needed to have a decent build and selection of other builds to choose from. Lower level PvE? I can care less. I also do this in any form of PvP.
Normally I run things that are strange. Normally I run things I've also tested with H/H to make sure they're not utter crap.
If somebody is running something horribly bad, I have no problem asking them to change. Normally I offer a reason for my wanting to ask them to change. Especially when people just have random skills with no synergy. If there's something I'm missing, then I expect them to correct me and tell me why I'm wrong. If I'm satisfied, then I'll let it go.
This is mostly only in higher-level areas of play where I *expect* people to have the skills and materials needed to have a decent build and selection of other builds to choose from. Lower level PvE? I can care less. I also do this in any form of PvP.
arsie
Well, it really depends on what you want done. If you want to finish a mission to continue the story, I usually would not even bother looking at builds, just a quick glance to make sure they are not completely weird.
If they are, I will give the player some advise, and send them some builds for reference. Usually they do not have all the skills needed, but thats fine.
If I am gunning for some hard masters and HM or whatever, I might be a bit more stringent, builds have to at least be a bit more punch.
There are times when I wish I had asked people to ping their builds. Like that one Mo/E I PuGed who only ever cast Flare and Fireball. Not very frequently either. If I had known he had aspirations of being a nuker, I would have brought a hero monk.
If they are, I will give the player some advise, and send them some builds for reference. Usually they do not have all the skills needed, but thats fine.
If I am gunning for some hard masters and HM or whatever, I might be a bit more stringent, builds have to at least be a bit more punch.
There are times when I wish I had asked people to ping their builds. Like that one Mo/E I PuGed who only ever cast Flare and Fireball. Not very frequently either. If I had known he had aspirations of being a nuker, I would have brought a hero monk.
Lady Lozza
Rexion - as I have said previously, this is not a product of the ping your build function. It is a problem with people because they choose to run certain team builds. It frustrates me when I organise a certain team for something and someone decides to be contrary and basically "not play the team game".
Certainly, I'm sure some good builds do get kicked by people, but you have to stop and think whether it's a case of the build not being quite so good for certain area - take hex heavy HM areas, there needs to be hex removal.
The leader IMHO is only a "jerk" if they kick without 1) asking for change of build, and 2) asks for a "cookie cutter build" which is not going to work in the area and won't listen to those who say so.
Many cookie-cutter team builds often do not pretend to be otherwise. They say: B/P lf ranger, team lf sf nuker for Fow - if someone then comes into the team without the requested build, and refuses to load said build then as far as I am concerned that player is being the "jerk" and not the leader who kicks them.
Certainly, I'm sure some good builds do get kicked by people, but you have to stop and think whether it's a case of the build not being quite so good for certain area - take hex heavy HM areas, there needs to be hex removal.
The leader IMHO is only a "jerk" if they kick without 1) asking for change of build, and 2) asks for a "cookie cutter build" which is not going to work in the area and won't listen to those who say so.
Many cookie-cutter team builds often do not pretend to be otherwise. They say: B/P lf ranger, team lf sf nuker for Fow - if someone then comes into the team without the requested build, and refuses to load said build then as far as I am concerned that player is being the "jerk" and not the leader who kicks them.
arsie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rexion
I just hate to see some good builds be kicked from a group because of a jerk-of-a leader.
|
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lady Lozza
Rexion - as I have said previously, this is not a product of the ping your build function. It is a problem with people because they choose to run certain team builds. It frustrates me when I organise a certain team for something and someone decides to be contrary and basically "not play the team game".
Certainly, I'm sure some good builds do get kicked by people, but you have to stop and think whether it's a case of the build not being quite so good for certain area - take hex heavy HM areas, there needs to be hex removal. The leader IMHO is only a "jerk" if they kick without 1) asking for change of build, and 2) asks for a "cookie cutter build" which is not going to work in the area and won't listen to those who say so. Many cookie-cutter team builds often do not pretend to be otherwise. They say: B/P lf ranger, team lf sf nuker for Fow - if someone then comes into the team without the requested build, and refuses to load said build then as far as I am concerned that player is being the "jerk" and not the leader who kicks them. |
but imo,OP isnt using anything decent.
take that mending+avatar of balthazar+whatever crapppy skills youve got off your bar and watch happiness fly your way
Diddy bow
Removing this would be like making everyones drops crap cus of farmers abusing it.
wait bad example...
It would be like removing Guru because of retareded posts xD. I.E
QFT.Only i wouldnt say full of jerks more, its not a-nets fault there are jerks out there, but also remeber its not a-nets fault people bring their Avatar of balthzar MM's to HA expecting a group. It never really changed anything, build discrimination just grew larger and larger over time.
wait bad example...
It would be like removing Guru because of retareded posts xD. I.E
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Its not a.net's fault that the community is full of jerks.
|
Rexion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
take that mending+avatar of balthazar+whatever crapppy skills youve got off your bar and watch happiness fly your way
|
if its such a bad build,then why did the FoW group I was in never wipe?
as i said before, i'm not complaining about being kicked... i was talking about it happening in general.
Biostem
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sekkira
You're the same idiot that whines about fame and titles, aren't you? ArenaNet adds in some wonderful things to grind for and keep playing the game beyond the main story and then they're to blame for dipshits like you who can only play a certain way and everyone else has to play their way.
Yes, I just grouped you with the retards you're complaining about. |
It's one thing to suggest a build to some potential team members, but it's another thing entirely to start excluding or kicking people based upon it.
Making some polite build suggestions is ok, demanding that a player conform to you (the leader's) orders - not so much.
mage767
Just the other day, I was doing Slavers Exile - FORGE, and I joined a mainly PUG group with my ele. The leader, however, was a guy from my guild and we were on vent.
A PUG monk joined us and asked me to ping my build. I was running a water build using Ward Against Harm, some earth wards and Ebon Vanguard of Wisdom. I use the water build because I have first-hand experience of many horror stories of pugs doing FORGE together.
As soon as I pinged by not-so-familiar build, the monk and another ele disapproved it. The ele told me to go SH but we already had 2 SH and 1 barrage/splinter in the team. The monk told me the same dam thing and they pinged me the 'right' build. LOL. As if I wasn't aware what the cookie build was.
Anyway, I told the leader that I'm running the water build no matter what. While we were in FORGE, the enemy eles ran past the tank several times. By placing the aforementioned wards, damage to my entire team was negligible. Just then the monks and eles realized the usefulness of the water build - and they actually shutup and showed support by giving me the second highest priority to keep alive.
It was hilarious - I hope those 6 other non-guildies learned something out of this!
A PUG monk joined us and asked me to ping my build. I was running a water build using Ward Against Harm, some earth wards and Ebon Vanguard of Wisdom. I use the water build because I have first-hand experience of many horror stories of pugs doing FORGE together.
As soon as I pinged by not-so-familiar build, the monk and another ele disapproved it. The ele told me to go SH but we already had 2 SH and 1 barrage/splinter in the team. The monk told me the same dam thing and they pinged me the 'right' build. LOL. As if I wasn't aware what the cookie build was.
Anyway, I told the leader that I'm running the water build no matter what. While we were in FORGE, the enemy eles ran past the tank several times. By placing the aforementioned wards, damage to my entire team was negligible. Just then the monks and eles realized the usefulness of the water build - and they actually shutup and showed support by giving me the second highest priority to keep alive.
It was hilarious - I hope those 6 other non-guildies learned something out of this!
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rexion
if its such a bad build,then why did the FoW group I was in never wipe? as i said before, i'm not complaining about being kicked... i was talking about it happening in general. |
Build pinging allowed me to catch an MM in a team ready to do abaddons gate once, i asked him to change and explained why a MM wouldn't work in that mission. He then proceded to call me a noob because "MMs r 1337". Also had two other people complaining in the team saying i should let him play what he wants, so i left them to go off on their own, H/H'd the mission then went back to the outpost to see what happened and watched the same team enter twice before i logged off....Some people just don't learn, pinging builds allows me to save possible waisted time with them.
Master Ketsu
Anet is not to blame for the stupidity of the majority.
Pinging is a good feature, especially for guilds. Don't like it ? Don't pug with jerks.
And personally if I Do feel like pugging in those rare "feel like doing pve" days, im pretty lenient on builds. That doesnt mean I will let an elementalist primary use [skill]avatar of balthazar[/skill] "because it looks cool". Im fine dragging marginal players through a mission as PvE is easy enough...but I refuse to help morons.
Pinging is a good feature, especially for guilds. Don't like it ? Don't pug with jerks.
And personally if I Do feel like pugging in those rare "feel like doing pve" days, im pretty lenient on builds. That doesnt mean I will let an elementalist primary use [skill]avatar of balthazar[/skill] "because it looks cool". Im fine dragging marginal players through a mission as PvE is easy enough...but I refuse to help morons.
Whiskeyjack
Quote:
| if its such a bad build,then why did the FoW group I was in never wipe? |
Gigashadow
Maybe you are getting kicked because your build actually is bad.
Malice Black
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Because GW is easy.
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Rexion
i'm give up, spam 'n flam(e) all you want..
i didn't ever say that >>I<< was being kicked...
go ahead, i'm just gonna ignore this topic
i didn't ever say that >>I<< was being kicked...
go ahead, i'm just gonna ignore this topic
Malice Black
Then what is your point?
Ping = no 55's in a mission group
Ping = no mending
Ping = no blood necros with firestorm
Ping = sucky build kick
Ping = good
It's that simple.
Ping = no 55's in a mission group
Ping = no mending
Ping = no blood necros with firestorm
Ping = sucky build kick
Ping = good
It's that simple.
zamial
Pinging builds is a great feature. I don't PUG so IDC what is on your bar.....
In before close
In before close
Sub Frost
Personally i like the function, saves time, helps to give other's useful builds, but like everything it isn't perfect...
Sadly i've seen situations were ppl where kicked, simply because of the narrow mind of the leader(or stupidity whatever suits best), not having the exact build some ppl expect, often generate this.
But i've also seen situations where a person had a completely useless build to the specific obj./mission/... and with this function could optimize his build and of course it's always nice to ear "Thanks allot for the build m8, it works really well" on the end of the said obj./mission.
Sadly i've seen situations were ppl where kicked, simply because of the narrow mind of the leader(or stupidity whatever suits best), not having the exact build some ppl expect, often generate this.
But i've also seen situations where a person had a completely useless build to the specific obj./mission/... and with this function could optimize his build and of course it's always nice to ear "Thanks allot for the build m8, it works really well" on the end of the said obj./mission.
Zeek Aran
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
You could simply do the immature thing and...
1. Ping the build template that the leader wants. 2. Switch to your build template before you leave town. 3. Ping your build after you leave town. It's then the leader's choice to start over or go ahead and see what you can do with your build. I know, it's a pretty crappy thing to do, but if it really irks you... |
Pinging is great. If you are booted for not using a certain build, then don't join them anyway. Just make sure you aren't echo-flaring.
VanDamselx
I'm happy about being able to ping your build. I remember what a pain in the ass it was to type out what skills you were using. Example:
Person: hey, what's the 55 build and what do you need?
You: PS, HB, Mending, BS, SoJ, BA, BD, and optional skill.. you need -50cesta and 5 monk sup runes
Person: what is ps, hb, bs, soj, ba, bd?
This of course was back in the day in Prophecies but I do remember hating to type that stuff out because newbies never knew what I was talking about. People are douche bags, if you are finding that you are having problems with group leaders, start your own group. If I do decide to PuG, I find myself more often than not leaving to start my own group. If a super build nazi enters my group, he or she gets kicked. I'm all for effective builds but if someone begins going overboard then he or she gets the boot.
Person: hey, what's the 55 build and what do you need?
You: PS, HB, Mending, BS, SoJ, BA, BD, and optional skill.. you need -50cesta and 5 monk sup runes
Person: what is ps, hb, bs, soj, ba, bd?
This of course was back in the day in Prophecies but I do remember hating to type that stuff out because newbies never knew what I was talking about. People are douche bags, if you are finding that you are having problems with group leaders, start your own group. If I do decide to PuG, I find myself more often than not leaving to start my own group. If a super build nazi enters my group, he or she gets kicked. I'm all for effective builds but if someone begins going overboard then he or she gets the boot.
Shadowfox1125
How about you don't PUG and find yourself a suitable guild? That'll solve the problem. Ugh.
reverse_oreo
Another fantastic reason not to join pugs. H/H FTW
cosyfiep
There are uses for the ping....like if you have 2 rits to make sure you dont bring the same spirits, etc. However, there are also jerks in the game who like to play god and kick people if they dont have the build they want you to....get another group and forget about them. Most of the time I find that the ones who kick you for not conforming dont make it anyways.....
Winterclaw
Ping is too inefficient IMO. I think there should be another window that you can open to see your entire party's skills while you are in town.
YunSooJin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rexion
if its such a bad build,then why did the FoW group I was in never wipe? as i said before, i'm not complaining about being kicked... i was talking about it happening in general. |