"Ping your build" problems
Pure Disasta
No its not Anets fault people dont want to get out of their comfort zones for certain builds. If you ping you can always get posotive feedback about what to change and how to better them anyways. And its easy to share builds with your friends and teamates.
Kusandaa
I really love that feature, one of the best created by ANet IMHO...
1. Enables you to share and save builds, fast and easily;
2. Lets your team know very quickly what you're running, if they bother looking;
3. If people have no idea what they're doing, you can spot 'em easily, tell 'em to change some stuff or kick them if it REALLY doesn't make any sense.
Doesn't mean I don't allow non-cookie cutter builds - some builds out there work really nicely, and I try to run different stuff myself. An example would be running N/R b/p instead of a R/N b/p in Tombs; I don't bother pugging it anymore and if I have to pug a few spots, you bet I warn people I'm running a variation on a common build.
But TBH, as long as it's effective... I'll let 'em run whatever they want. Won't run SF nuker against destroyers, and not everyone will run the same nuking build (I've had air, water and earth nukers... all work fine).
1. Enables you to share and save builds, fast and easily;
2. Lets your team know very quickly what you're running, if they bother looking;
3. If people have no idea what they're doing, you can spot 'em easily, tell 'em to change some stuff or kick them if it REALLY doesn't make any sense.
Doesn't mean I don't allow non-cookie cutter builds - some builds out there work really nicely, and I try to run different stuff myself. An example would be running N/R b/p instead of a R/N b/p in Tombs; I don't bother pugging it anymore and if I have to pug a few spots, you bet I warn people I'm running a variation on a common build.
But TBH, as long as it's effective... I'll let 'em run whatever they want. Won't run SF nuker against destroyers, and not everyone will run the same nuking build (I've had air, water and earth nukers... all work fine).
jezz
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Originally Posted by YunSooJin
lol, look, its a build from 2005.
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its really immature
try add something to the discussion..maybe something useful and positive
bungusmaximus
A reasonably good player should be able to keep a party alive with that monk bar, I wouldn't kick someone over it, even if it isn't optimal. But it's rather simple, If someone runs a build that gets the job done, and a party leader can't acknowledge that, you have a very big chance the party leader is baed. If it's for FoW though I strongly recommend good hex removal :P.
What gets the job done can ofc vary depending where you are. I hate nothing more then making a party with people that are too stubborn to change 1 or 2 skills even when I'm sure skill x will be better instead of skill y. Like peope that refuse to bring condi remove in Tahnakai Temple and pinnging all the time: I have blind on me!
I love the feature, when I pvp people sometimes give me a build, and some of those I saved because they were just good, saves me a lot of puzzling on my own, time doesn't grow on trees you know.
What gets the job done can ofc vary depending where you are. I hate nothing more then making a party with people that are too stubborn to change 1 or 2 skills even when I'm sure skill x will be better instead of skill y. Like peope that refuse to bring condi remove in Tahnakai Temple and pinnging all the time: I have blind on me!
I love the feature, when I pvp people sometimes give me a build, and some of those I saved because they were just good, saves me a lot of puzzling on my own, time doesn't grow on trees you know.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by jezz
if this build works for him/her great dont flame him over his build..
its really immature try add something to the discussion..maybe something useful and positive |
You are not a beautiful snowflake. You do not create unique ideas better than 3 million other players combined. Your pet build that you run everywhere is not the best thing since bacon. In fact, if you refuse to ever change your build, it's probably terrible. Saying "my build has worked so far" does not mean it's good, or that it will be good in the future. I could get completely smashed before I drive every day, and even if I hadn't crashed, it would still be a bad idea.
Refusing to work as a team doesn't make the party leader requesting changes a jerk, it makes you a self-centered, arrogant prick.
Now, party leaders can be idiots too, and that's something else. However, if you're completely inflexible and incapable of defending your build, you are a bad player and you are killing your only way of becoming better.
Moving on to why that build is bad:
Lacks any real prot
Lacks party-wide healing (LoD)
Lacks condition removal
Lacks hex removal
Lacks energy management
free_fall
I was in a group doing Sunjiang the other day and there was this air ele standing around saying "will anyone take an air ele for mission?"
Our leader invited him, asked him to ping his build, kicked him after seeing it, then commented to us that his build sucked. Since there were only 3 of us (with heroes), I suggested taking him back, if only for another RP to help carry, but we went without him.
Myself, I don't really mind taking a player with what might be considered a "weak" build along - one, even two, such usually won't affect the outcome if the others in the group are strong players (and the weaker ones don't do stupid stuff, like over-agro'ing).
I'll never for get doing Bloodstone Fen (iirc) on my Canthan ranger and taking along a lvl 14 Mo/Nec - an MM Nec: 3 heals, res, and 3 MM skils + 1 other death skill. lol I'd have to say that's the worst build I've ever encountered.
Fortunately, my R carried VS, HB and Mending - I ended up doing more healing than she did. I had Koss, Sousuke and Olias along, so we got through it ok and had some fun, to boot.
Our leader invited him, asked him to ping his build, kicked him after seeing it, then commented to us that his build sucked. Since there were only 3 of us (with heroes), I suggested taking him back, if only for another RP to help carry, but we went without him.
Myself, I don't really mind taking a player with what might be considered a "weak" build along - one, even two, such usually won't affect the outcome if the others in the group are strong players (and the weaker ones don't do stupid stuff, like over-agro'ing).
I'll never for get doing Bloodstone Fen (iirc) on my Canthan ranger and taking along a lvl 14 Mo/Nec - an MM Nec: 3 heals, res, and 3 MM skils + 1 other death skill. lol I'd have to say that's the worst build I've ever encountered.
Fortunately, my R carried VS, HB and Mending - I ended up doing more healing than she did. I had Koss, Sousuke and Olias along, so we got through it ok and had some fun, to boot.
Holly Herro
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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
...If it's for FoW though I strongly recommend good hex removal :P ...
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And I think this is a great system. If people get kicked or anything, then you got a really stupid leader.
Abbel Calima
I like this feature, if i decide to group up with random people i can see how skilled they are. If it is a newb bar, i can help them out to make a slightly better skillbar.
But sometimes there are some ignorant people who dont listen to advice, and that makes me sad.
Ofcourse you can judge on people how skilled they are by looking at their skillbar. I often come across standard wiki bars and if i tell them they should better change a certain skill because it would come in handy in that certain mission, they would say 'FU NOOB! i got it from wiki, it's 1337sauce', this would certainly be a noob right?
Or what about using SF bars in glints challenge, that makes me lol.
But sometimes there are some ignorant people who dont listen to advice, and that makes me sad.
Ofcourse you can judge on people how skilled they are by looking at their skillbar. I often come across standard wiki bars and if i tell them they should better change a certain skill because it would come in handy in that certain mission, they would say 'FU NOOB! i got it from wiki, it's 1337sauce', this would certainly be a noob right?
Or what about using SF bars in glints challenge, that makes me lol.
elektra_lucia
Can I see the skill bars what the person is kicking (and please don't lie about them).
Oh wait...
You were serious? LoL. Rebirth on a monk, w00. Ok that screams of idiot, I don't care what PVE'r says 'res works on a PVE monk'. No condition removal, no hex removal. WoH, it's out dated for FoW. Use LoD. No prot spirit, it's nice. Doesn't need high attributes.
Why did the group never wipe? I thought you said they didn't get to play
; however, if you did get to play with this, and it didn't wipe. Maybe because everyone else didn't suck at the game like he did?
P.S. Put heal breeze and mending on the bar already.
Oh wait...
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Originally Posted by Rexion
if its such a bad build,then why did the FoW group I was in never wipe? as i said before, i'm not complaining about being kicked... i was talking about it happening in general. |
Why did the group never wipe? I thought you said they didn't get to play
; however, if you did get to play with this, and it didn't wipe. Maybe because everyone else didn't suck at the game like he did?P.S. Put heal breeze and mending on the bar already.
~ Dan ~
Being able to see that someone has a poor skillbar because they are a poor player is a po... good addition imo.
Rexion
see, i knew this would become a flame rave.
Faer
On the rare occasions that I run around with randoms, and they ask me to ping my skillbar, I never have any problems. I just run what I'd run in GvG (or DoA, lulz) and go with the flow.
So honestly, I can't relate. There are pricks in this game. There are also really bad players. Sometimes, there are really bad players that are also pricks.
But it's okay, because Koss will always love us.
So honestly, I can't relate. There are pricks in this game. There are also really bad players. Sometimes, there are really bad players that are also pricks.
But it's okay, because Koss will always love us.
undeadgun
rebirth on a monk is always good in PvE
Rexion
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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
Why did the group never wipe? I thought you said they didn't get to play
; however, if you did get to play with this, and it didn't wipe. Maybe because everyone else didn't suck at the game like he did?P.S. Put heal breeze and mending on the bar already. |
and for two, i'm not a Wammo supporter, i think they are the stupidest thing next to "WTB RS account" spammers.... they could die in FoW for all I care
the Puppeteer
so you would like a smiting monk with lightning hammer & aftershock in your team? gg
Bankai
I sometimes ask people to ping their build, just to make sure they're not horrible. I've been doing some Glint's challenge lately, and you get to see horrible builds. For example, I like to know if the ele we're taking, which is supposed to be killing things, doesn't have a full tank build with no attack skills (happened to me before). Or, if one of the necros really is an MM and not an SS (also happened before) or a Discord necro (idem dito). I've also noticed that people only make general remarks, like "Can you take a little more healing" or "I've already got that skill with me, can you bring another one". No harm in that.
Etta
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Originally Posted by Rexion
Back before ANet allowed people to ping their build to the chat, it seemed groups were formed easier and had no hassle.
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upier
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Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack
Because FoW is easy.
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And the build will work.
Are there better builds?
Yes there are.
Not everyone strives for perfection. Sub-optimal things work. And it's lovely that they do. It makes the game varied.
Personally I never ran LoD if I ran healing. HB is just more fun!
And I was able to keep people in perfectly fine condition in the places I monked.
Fun is a huge issue for a lot of people playing PvE.
On-topic:
I like the ping-thingy.
I rarely use it and when I do I sometimes do get kicked from the team because of it - but it's still something that made the game better.
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
LOL.
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jezz
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Originally Posted by Holly Herro
When I monk for FoW, I just bring Dwaynas kiss.
And I think this is a great system. If people get kicked or anything, then you got a really stupid leader. |
DarkGanni
Personally I run my own builds especially in elite areas like FoW its where they start criticising my builds so its just me, heros and friends/guildies. I also have to correct certain builds when players ping skills and some of them enrage and call me noob when they have a bad skill in their bar, thats what I get when trying to teach sometimes.
elektra_lucia
If you look at the things he had written, you will see he is a wammo! .
BDZeres
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Originally Posted by Rexion
if its such a bad build,then why did the FoW group I was in never wipe? as i said before, i'm not complaining about being kicked... i was talking about it happening in general. |
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
They wouldn't wipe if you were not bad at the game.
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Regular PvE != high end PvP
elektra_lucia
I'm saying, if you as a monk, were not bad at the game, the team would not wipe. It's fow. It's not hard to monk.
Malice Black
Calling people stupid, saying they fail etc is not acceptable. I don't care how good you think you are, you either be polite or you leave.
CHunterX
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Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
They wouldn't wipe if you were not bad at the game.
Cool, I know PVE, PVP. Lol^^ Actually, I was laughing at the typical mentality of a wamo! |
Also, a Monk using Rebirth in PvE is fine, obviously you've never seen "Steel Wall" or DoA Team builds. Monks shouldn't hard res during a battle, but once the dust settles and the mobs are dead or gone, losing all your energy for Rebirth is not that big of a deal, it isn't like you are timed and regenerating that energy would be impossible.
elektra_lucia
Well he started off calling people jerks, who do not agree with that build. I explained why it's bad, he won't accept it. There's plenty of information on the forum to show it's bad.
I'll be a nice panda *chomps on chocolate*
This isn't DoA. So any point you have there is moot. As for the warrior. Lol^. There's enough information on this already. Seriously, just use the search function.
I'll be a nice panda *chomps on chocolate*
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If a Warrior is going to bring a hard res, why not bring one that takes the players out of enemy range, instead of ressing them in the middle of aggro and possibly getting them killed again? Also, a Monk using Rebirth in PvE is fine, obviously you've never seen "Steel Wall" or DoA Team builds. Monks shouldn't hard res during a battle, but once the dust settles and the mobs are dead or gone, losing all your energy for Rebirth is not that big of a deal, it isn't like you are timed and regenerating that energy would be impossible. |
Surena
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Calling people stupid, saying they fail etc is not acceptable.
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bungusmaximus
Take it to PM's. I do not want you two littering this thread with any more crap. Got it?
Akaraxle
Pro tip: ping your build, than change it on the fly to the one you like. No one will notice.
wilson
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Calling people stupid, saying they fail etc is not acceptable. I don't care how good you think you are, you either be polite or you leave.
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Back on topic. I really like pinging bars. When I and friends/guildies AB and we need one more PuG, we usually want to see their bars. If we want different skills, we always ask if the puggie minds some changes. Most people don't mind tweaking their build a bit if you ask them in a polite and friendly fashion. The ones that don't care usually /ragequit upon asking them. I've had very good experiences with that approach.
the_jos
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| You were serious? LoL. Rebirth on a monk, w00. Ok that screams of idiot, I don't care what PVE'r says 'res works on a PVE monk'. No condition removal, no hex removal. WoH, it's out dated for FoW. Use LoD. No prot spirit, it's nice. Doesn't need high attributes. |
Even if on low energy (as long as the team is safe for a few seconds): GoLE -> switch to negative energy set -> Rebirth -> if needed, cast an other spell -> Switch to normal energy set (and continue normal monking again).
LoD > WoH? Depends on the area and team build.
PS? Sure, but hardly any need on Normal Mode when you have a decent team.
Lack of condition and hex removal is worse, but again depends on the area.
PvE players focus on builds for single players too much these days....
It's about team build, not the individual build.
Sure, some builds are more generic than others, but it does not make the rest bad...
It's up to the party leader to see if a certain build fits in the team given the conditions. And give directions.
Not to some person here on a forum judging a single build...
Avarre
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Originally Posted by CHunterX
Also, a Monk using Rebirth in PvE is fine, obviously you've never seen "Steel Wall" or DoA Team builds. Monks shouldn't hard res during a battle, but once the dust settles and the mobs are dead or gone, losing all your energy for Rebirth is not that big of a deal, it isn't like you are timed and regenerating that energy would be impossible.
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Good resses are fast and bring the player up to optimum effectiveness as soon as possible, rebirth does neither. There is no situation where you should be ressing after a battle is over and the mobs are dead - if someone goes down, you res them immediately. You might need rebirth, perhaps, if you full wipe - if this is the case, perhaps you should take out rebirth, put in an 8th skill that isn't terrible, and maybe live the next time.
Malice Black
Simple solution -
You have 8 party members, 1 carries rebirth (not the monk/ele) rest carry Sunspear, death pact etc
You have 8 party members, 1 carries rebirth (not the monk/ele) rest carry Sunspear, death pact etc
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Sorry, but Rebirth is always bad.
Good resses are fast and bring the player up to optimum effectiveness as soon as possible, rebirth does neither. There is no situation where you should be ressing after a battle is over and the mobs are dead - if someone goes down, you res them immediately. You might need rebirth, perhaps, if you full wipe - if this is the case, perhaps you should take out rebirth, put in an 8th skill that isn't terrible, and maybe live the next time. |
You speak the truth though, but what matters are circumstances.
jezz
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Sorry, but Rebirth is always bad.
Good resses are fast and bring the player up to optimum effectiveness as soon as possible, rebirth does neither. There is no situation where you should be ressing after a battle is over and the mobs are dead - if someone goes down, you res them immediately. You might need rebirth, perhaps, if you full wipe - if this is the case, perhaps you should take out rebirth, put in an 8th skill that isn't terrible, and maybe live the next time. |
just cant stand seeing the only monk rebirthing in middle of fight ...i cringe every time..
pls ping builds freely..i for one never mind criticism of my builds ...that is how you learn what works and what doesnt..
my hero monks have rebirth but turned off till needed..if needed lol
qazwersder
Im agreeing with Jezz, I always have one hero with rebirth(although disabled), usually a monk. If it comes to the point that that one monk is left standing then by all means there aint no issues with using it.
pkodyssey
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Sorry, but Rebirth is always bad.
Good resses are fast and bring the player up to optimum effectiveness as soon as possible, rebirth does neither. There is no situation where you should be ressing after a battle is over and the mobs are dead - if someone goes down, you res them immediately. You might need rebirth, perhaps, if you full wipe - if this is the case, perhaps you should take out rebirth, put in an 8th skill that isn't terrible, and maybe live the next time. |
Why the hell would you want a monk rezing DURING a battle? That is everyone elses job. If the monk/monks are rezing who is healing?
The optimum rez comes from a mesmer. Fast casting FTW.
Rebirth is the ONLY rez a monk should carry in a PvE group without hero's and henchies. Sometime we will have one monk without a rez but that depends on the specifics of the mission/quest/whatever.
As a party leader you should also always insist that people announce when they are rezing or interrupted during a rez, either in chat or TS.
Avarre... your post below has solid truth. Nobody plans to wipe. That doesnt mean that I don't have car insurance, because I don't PLAN to have an accident. Sometimes unfortunate things happen. More often in PUG's. For example...Rebirth is great for recovering the tank that went down and the little red nasty dots are standing right over him.
Death pact is awesome, but I would never use it in a PUG or with hero's.
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Originally Posted by Avarre
If you're healing with more than three skills, you're bad.
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Avarre
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Originally Posted by jezz
rebirth isnt bad, players need to know when to use it..one party member falls..monk should never rez..leave that to other party member... but monk with rebirth is good as last resort..if he/she is last player standing..
just cant stand seeing the only monk rebirthing in middle of fight ...i cringe every time.. pls ping builds freely..i for one never mind criticism of my builds ...that is how you learn what works and what doesnt.. my hero monks have rebirth but turned off till needed..if needed lol |
Monk skillbars are the most cramped of all players, you want a full 8 skills on your monks so you don't have to res in the first place.
There's a lot of emphasis being put on ressing, so let me cover some basics. Ressing should not be a part of your plan. If you plan to res, then you plan to die. Bringing rebirth implies you plan to get full wiped because that is the only time you would use it compared to another res.
Regarding combat resses; you should be using skills that get allies up as quickly as possible with as much of their stats as possible. Death Pact Signet, for example, is superb because it gives you a near immediate return to full strength, with a penalty of punishing you further if you die again (continue to make mistakes, thus not giving any penalty if you don't die again), hence reducing the effect of a single mistake as quickly and fully as possible.
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| If you cant effectively heal with 7 skills then you are either over healing or utilizing ineffective skills. |
Monk bars are cramped to fit versatility, with condi/hex removal, healing, prot, and self-utility (energy and/or defense).