Nov nerf....oh lord

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 01:19 - 1

Bls is a lead = Bout time really, theres now 1 more good Assassin Lead attack.
Sucks for SP sins but...who cares right?

Impale: Bos+impale...sorry

Expose defenses: Don't be surprised when the next nerf comes.

Now my problem

HORNS OF THE OX- I might puke >.>

Issac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Earthrealm

W/A

14 Nov 2007 at 01:24 - 2

I don't think their going to to anything with Horns. It already has a disadvantage of not working when enemy is close to his ally.

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 01:26 - 3

horns got owned hahaha

Kyp Jade

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

USA

Lack of Talent [Luck]

14 Nov 2007 at 01:26 - 4

Why they dont just delete the class I dont know

cikeginke

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2007

14 Nov 2007 at 01:31 - 5

SP sin definitely got hit hard, sighh

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

14 Nov 2007 at 01:48 - 6

Oh wow, this update pwns so many cookie cutters.

Quote:

Black Lotus Strike: decreased Energy gain to 5..18; this skill now counts as a lead attack.

Pretty Good. Much more balanced with Golden lotus now. GG sp sins.

Quote:

Expose Defenses: decreased duration to 1..11 seconds.

Time to A/N for [skill]rigor mortis[/skill] ?

Quote: Horns of the Ox: decreased damage to 1..11. Fail. This skill was not OP.

Quote: Impale : increased casting time to 1 second. Much better synergy with BOS now. It was like a 300+ damage spike with just two skills. GG sp sins.

Quote: Trampling Ox: decreased damage to 5..20. Same problem with horns. Damage was not OP. Fail. Ect.

OVERALL FOR SIN NERFS: really, the problem is tiger stance. Tiger needs to be 2 @ 0. the fact that this doubles the speed of the SP spike for 0 att and an ignorable downside need not be ignored. Sins should not have a reliable 0 specable 33% IAS for them to abuse, period.

Quote: Ineptitude: increased recharge time to 20 seconds. Lol wut.

Quote:

* Word of Healing Word of Healing: decreased unconditional heal amount to 5..130. Decent. The problem still exists were most other healing prayers spells have been nerfed by neglect by this. People have been running hybrid monks recently for a reason: The majority of the rest of the HP line still fails.

Quote:

Necromancer

* Soul Reaping: no longer gains any benefit from Spirits.

Olias is really pissed! RIP N/rt.

Quote:

Ranger

* Barrage Barrage: increased damage to 5..20 damage. Lol the PvE'rs actually complained loud enough about the splinter nerf. Dont really care.

Quote:

Energizing Wind Energizing Wind: decreased duration to 1..31 seconds. roflz

Quote: I agree, I think small change to SP would fix every SP build

*ekhm*
Elite Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 1...8...10 seconds, that foe moves 66% slower. All of your stances are disabled for 10...5...4 seconds. If you are in a stance while using this skill, this skill fails.

No ias = no SP spike while leaving good skills = win/win

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

14 Nov 2007 at 08:00 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by | Cleric |

Horn of the Ox was not as bad as a nerf as you all imply it to be. In fact it could have been argued that it was one of the best knockdown skills in the game post Nov 13. Now it is about equal to others and it is not like it still won't be used. Almost all other knockdowns either have higher energy cause equation or have increased casting times to do as much damage as horn of the ox did in its recharge time.

Just means newer sin builds for AB and RA from now on. Should be interesting. the best kd skill in the game is shock, followed by dev hammer or thunda-clap, although HotO is much more exciting and scary (other than dev).

to fix sp sins, make tiger stance 1 second at 0 str, and boom, done.

what the sin needs is dancing daggers recharge at 15-20 seconds, and its energy cost at 10.

BOOM!

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

14 Nov 2007 at 08:01 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Why they dont just delete the class I dont know Because then thousands of bad PvE sins will unite and protest!

Sakura Az

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

The frozen north

Ambassadors Of Enlightenment [Sage]

14 Nov 2007 at 10:35 - 25

i don't agree wiht the Horns nerfs.. make HoTO the same damage range as Trampling and i'll be happier.

the change to BLS wrecked a few of my builds.. one in particular needed that as an offhand to get me energy and continue my attacks.. it was a solo build to solo a decent amount of bosses.. now i've had to reskill that build to be even less powerful.. i'll have to test it out soon. oh well, adapt i must.

I think that Dancing daggers should cost 10 energy and have an 8-10 rechage to make it more ballenced, yes that stupid DD entangling SoTC will still be around, just now they can't spam DD and kill me as fast anymore. i think that would ballence that out a bit better

blurmedia

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2007

UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE [moko]

14 Nov 2007 at 10:41 - 26

I say buff HotO back up and nerf [skill]Blades of Steel[/skill]
THAT is a seriously overpowered skill for cookie-cutters >_>

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

14 Nov 2007 at 11:23 - 27

Eh they nerfed the Yanssassin >.> It was too overpowered I guess...

MoI-BLS-Exhausting Assault anyone?

*edit* Why kd someone when you interrupt him....ponder...I'll think about this one tonight.

Tatile

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

Stygian Disciples of Tenebrasus

N/Me

14 Nov 2007 at 11:39 - 28

On a note completely unrelated to the Sin nerf: pets no longer leave exploitable corpses. Not really a big one, but I can imagine a fair amount of pet-based MM's getting annoyed.

It does also mean one less well, alas.

The Soul Reaping/Spirit change isn't so bad, it does bring the entire 'Spiritway' craze to a hault, but if anyone remembers the Soul Reaping abuse thread (the reason for it being this team build) it's a good thing they didn't nerf Soul Reaping more.

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 12:44 - 29

This update stinks.

Thanks Anet.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

14 Nov 2007 at 13:00 - 30

Mesmer - 5 seconds longer doesn't make a difference for me. I was using this skill only for Wurm farming anyway.

Monks - Meh.

Necroes - My wtfpwn N/Rt for RA got pwnd ;[

Ranger - Bye bye solo trappers. Why you added +3 damage to Barrage? It's almost nothing...

Assassins - Yay, now we HAVE TO use signet spike builds. Good that only my tombs/fow solo build was nerfed and all my general pve builds were untouched.... BLS is useless - it was quite nice only because it was an offhand without a lead attack. If you could make it 5 energy and lower a bit minimal gained energy, it would be fine, but as for now - Unsuspecting Strike > Black Lotus Strike. Plus Impale nerf, yaaay.

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

14 Nov 2007 at 13:47 - 31

sp sins = pwned

shame about hotO

i used that skill a lot.

righteo - im switching from my Sin to my monk - better focus on him now ^^

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 13:56 - 32

i dont even like SP

and they made assassins look worse

i love my pve sin but this .........., I almost get tears in my eyes

if the KD from Horns was unconditinal the 1-12 still sucks

while nerfing the assassin they buffed the [skill]barrage[/skill] (5-21) might start playing a crit barrager *sigh*

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

14 Nov 2007 at 14:24 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Ranger -Why you added +3 damage to Barrage? It's almost nothing... +3 per arrow is alot....it's +18 at max...

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 14:34 - 34

the selection of bad-offhand attacks plus little options kills sins the most. The requirement that all or most must follow a lead attack is so shitty. Imo, make some to follow a dual attack instead, like fox fangs or jungle strike or wild strike. This might just save them

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 14:46 - 35

still got the gfs-ff-sa combo

Dean Harper

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

USA

The Killer Clan Musketeers [TKCM]

Me/E

14 Nov 2007 at 14:56 - 36

im ok with the sin nerf, as long as my regular build doesnt get nerfed, along with my UW farm build, im good

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

14 Nov 2007 at 17:04 - 37

I (don't) like how they see the problem with HoTO and Trampling but don't see problems with Deadly Paradox -,-

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 17:20 - 38

Hmm, here is as good as any place to put my thoughts in...

I don't like the HotO nerf, basically.
HotO was a 'good' skill requiring situational awareness to use to the best of its ability.

Blades of Steel should've died instead, the only place that works is on retarded 1234567-style 'sins. Which should die.

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

14 Nov 2007 at 17:33 - 39

Blades of Steel is useless without a long enough chain to power it. thats why BLS was nerfed along with HotO/Tramp. this way you can't stream a set of skills that are nearly unstoppable and get away with it (same thing for expose). all this, yet deadly para and dancing are still totally imba.... meh

i play shattering and classic twisting, or full int sin, so none of this update affects me.. but im still mega ticked about HotO.....

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

14 Nov 2007 at 18:16 - 40

They'd better change back HotO or I'll be pissed. I can adjust to the BLS nerf, but seriously, without HotO there will no longer be (viable, non-assacaster) spike builds. If A-net wants to nerf our already few (viable, non-assacaster) builds without giving us any buffs, we'll be headed straight for the Paragon basket. And I'm not sure if I'll stick around if I lose my assassin... I'm sure that if there's another nerf or two on 'sins, they're gonna see a big drop in the population.

And to those saying assacasters are imba, please. Stop. Now, it's one of our only useful builds now. And anyway, my monk can neuter them very easily, especially with the new buff to WoH, which tops off more than 1/4th of my health, and almost half of everyone else's.

Magebane Shot Magebane Shot: increased disable time to 10 seconds; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds. Much more worth the elite slot now.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 02:25 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Why they dont just delete the class I dont know They hate the assassin so much

They take us from factions...when our class is getting settled in after months of tweaking.

Then they bring Nightfall...Over power us.

Then they destroy us in 2 updates.

WTB Horns of the ox Resurrection Signet! Using Vengeance is good too!!!

L.J

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

Brisbane

Blades Of The Dingo[AUST]

14 Nov 2007 at 03:02 - 8

I don't mind them destrong sp sins really, quite boring. I'm against the hoto one though. Sucks, but oh well.. I don't really pvp with my sin much anymore... actually i dont pve with him anymore either

jsalvadore1325

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

[Arrr]

14 Nov 2007 at 03:04 - 9

Though these nerfs were sort of asked for by all the Sin-split in gvgs and just annoyingness of SP sins in general, but I find it annoying when Izzy nerfs skills to a point where they're almost unuseable just to stop so many people from running it, I think there would have been other ways to nerf these skills without annihilating their uses.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 03:05 - 10

I'm really unhappy about the Horns of the Ox nerf.

I love KD spamming.

(already trying to figure out how to incorporate Trampling Ox into Moebius build)

ANet I HATE YOU! Now you force me to buy EotN just so I can go
[skill]Black mantis Thrust[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Trampling Ox[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill]

YOU BASTARDS!

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 03:06 - 11

Black Lotus Strike was not a nerf.

It disables 1 maybe 2 builds

And opens up others, thats a balance.

Horns is the new Symbol of nerf.

Hell im gonna make a graphics art right now.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 03:11 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Black Lotus Strike was not a nerf.
Oh really? Tell me: is there any conditional lead attk that its condition is a must ?

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

14 Nov 2007 at 03:16 - 13

Originally Posted by yum

Oh really? Tell me: is there any conditional lead attk that its condition is a must ? Golden Lotus Strike. Yeah. But still, GLS is TEN time better than BLS now, in PvE at least. It's easier to meet the conditions (in PvE), costs less initially (10e is a lot to start off your chain with, no matter how much it returns), and recharges faster. Only thing it's worse at is damage.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 03:22 - 14

OMG I didn't even notice Trampling was nerfed as well. I hate them I hate them I hate them and I now realize it's largely because of KD spammers like me they got a damage nerf.

...suppose I should feel flattered.

@ Jaigoda:

SP Sins now have only this option left, and expect to see it til it makes your eyes bleed
[skill]Shadow Prison[/skill][skill]Tiger Stance[/skill][skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill][skill]Trampling Ox[/skill][skill]Falling Lotus Strike[/skill][skill]Blades of steel[/skill]...and still[skill]Impale[/skill] and [skill]Expose Defenses[/skill], I guess

Gives me an incentive to finally run 8 CS instead of 13. Whatever. Are ANet driving us to Deadly Arts?

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

14 Nov 2007 at 03:46 - 15

[skill]Shadow Prison[/skill]
[skill]Black Spider Strike[/skill]
[skill]Death Blossom[/skill]
[skill]Impale[/skill]
[skill]Signet of Toxic Shock[/skill]

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 03:47 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Enso, it nerfed about a bajilion builds. You don't understand how used BLS was. It was in every spike build from here to heaven. Yes, it was a HUGE nerf. Now, (reasonably powerful and fast) spike builds are gonna go down the drain, cause the only options now are BSS-dual-GPS-dual, BSS-HotO-FS-dual, or GPS-HotO-FS-dual. Every one of these (besides the first, which requires a hex AND an enchant) has been nerfed by this update. Yes, it was a HUGE nerf, and outside of RA/TA and AB, we won't be seeing 'sins very often at all.

Golden Lotus Strike. Yeah. But still, GLS is TEN time better than BLS now, in PvE at least. It's easier to meet the conditions (in PvE), costs less initially (10e is a lot to start off your chain with, no matter how much it returns), and recharges faster. Only thing it's worse at is damage. Aye, but most of those builds were FORGOTTEN due to SP sin, or are just clones of it.
Some of those builds use the same SP combo with a different hex.

Thus really it nerfed just the 1 combo.

I think the thing with the Lead attack is a bug guys. Thus I say nothing on it.

the horns nerf is more severe.

Horns has been with the sin in more builds than BLS, believe it or not.

BLS had some fame before Nightfall but really took off with the SP sin.

Horn's ..and Twisting fangs have been the reps of the sin really.

Impale kills Twisting

Izzy just killed horns.

its not cool.....look how long horns has been in builds....

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 04:36 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Golden Lotus Strike. uhm no. GLS dun nid an enchantment to hit. Read the skill description.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

14 Nov 2007 at 04:45 - 18

ignore obvious bad choice of runes/weapons, got back from doing something else.

Point is: IT STILL LIVES. minus the KD, slightly less damage but it still lives and it still instagibs.

| Cleric |

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

Death To Society [syke]

N/Me

14 Nov 2007 at 04:57 - 19

Jaigoda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

IGN Eat Scythes

14 Nov 2007 at 05:21 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

uhm no. GLS dun nid an enchantment to hit. Read the skill description. Read BLS's description. It never says it needs a hex to hit. It's obvious that it's a bug in BLS that is making it fail without a hex. In fact, besides the damage counter, energy return, and requirements (hex and enchant), BLS and GLS have the EXACT same description.

craigrs84

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2007

14 Nov 2007 at 05:26 - 21

BLS was definately a nerf. It's now a near useless skill don't try to argue otherwise.
Edit: It costs 5 more energy than GLS and has a 2 second longer recharge.

Yes it might open up possibilities for a few new subpar builds. But simple fact of the matter is normal offhands suck. The only decent offhand is wild strike and no one is going to use anything other than GFS->WS.

Plus, If i was going to a lead attack with a hex condition I'd much rather use black mantis thrust and cripple them which also has synergy with Trampling Ox.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

14 Nov 2007 at 05:41 - 22

HotO and Trampling nerf- uh-huh
As for BLS, I get why it was nerfed but... why the hell would you need lead attack like that? Unless you're some sort of sin caster -,-

Quote:

OVERALL FOR SIN NERFS: really, the problem is tiger stance.