how to fix assassins
Shuuda
Quote:
Originally Posted by zknifeh
1) i dont use either and in order to get the adrenaline from those u have to be in the fight... they cant get u adrenaline BEFORE the fight... think about it
2) no matter wat HP they have, after my last attack skill they only really have enough hp for 1 more hit
3) i threw u an example that can kill a person in a few skills, once again i must repeat its not for GvG therefore its not for a team
4) the dagger mods matter, as u first posted u had "SHINY" daggers and all i said the "SHINY" doesnt matter... as in the skin itseld
5) i believe you are the one in denial and just want whatever is best for U
6) whirling D was the first skill that came to my mind and by saying u can use that i meant just use w/e block skill u want and no i dont GvG since its not my kind of play type
why must u look at everything from the "assassins are overpowered so lets neft them" point of view? 1) You must be fighting noobs, good players would do things to lessen the damage.
2) Oh yes, Im in denial, and so are all the Competent PvPers in the gladiator arena section. Go ahead, try and justify that sin are balance in that section.
/growwearyofarguingwithsinfandoyz
2) no matter wat HP they have, after my last attack skill they only really have enough hp for 1 more hit
3) i threw u an example that can kill a person in a few skills, once again i must repeat its not for GvG therefore its not for a team
4) the dagger mods matter, as u first posted u had "SHINY" daggers and all i said the "SHINY" doesnt matter... as in the skin itseld
5) i believe you are the one in denial and just want whatever is best for U
6) whirling D was the first skill that came to my mind and by saying u can use that i meant just use w/e block skill u want and no i dont GvG since its not my kind of play type
why must u look at everything from the "assassins are overpowered so lets neft them" point of view? 1) You must be fighting noobs, good players would do things to lessen the damage.
2) Oh yes, Im in denial, and so are all the Competent PvPers in the gladiator arena section. Go ahead, try and justify that sin are balance in that section.
/growwearyofarguingwithsinfandoyz
Sniffy
Okay.
So is the concept of mildly-damaging spikes (think: 1/2 to 3/5 of a character's health) with somewhat low energy cost and low recharge, along with high amounts of disruption and other utility "worth the trade", if designed correctly?[/QUOTE]
At this point I would say an enthusiastic "Yes."
The problem with Assassins, is if they get the kill, people go "Wow! Sins are so overpowered! They take no skill to play! It's just 12345 or however long their chain is.
If they don't get the kill, they are, usually, stuck in a lousy position , with bad armor, running and screaming. Ok, not really. But if they don't get the kill, at this point, they are a largely useless (IE underpowered) class.
Which is why I would suppport their move to moderate spike short recharge spikes, with utility, and healing.
As long as Assassins can kill from full health in one spike, people who can't figure out how to stop it will whine about it, yet you can't just take away sin spiking ability, give them nothing else and say "Ok, they're balanced now."
On another note,
I guess I don't really understand the 123456 sins have no skill argument. Sure, if you want to, you can play your sin that way. That makes you a bad sin. Either that, or you are exceptionally lucky.
In order for me to win, I always have to think about who to hit, when, and with what. When I started playing sin, I thought I could mash buttons and get kills. While you often can on a heavily pressured character, it usually takes more thought, timing, and skill than that.
If you still insist on the 12345 argument, then why are Warriors harder to play?
Wars must build up adrenaline.
Yeah? Gee, pressing c space is so much harder than 12345.
Then warriors (spike wars) do their chain. Maybe wars take more skill because they arrange their chain 34251. Beats me.
Pressure wars just use their pressure.
Look! Running foe! Wars do bull strike, sins do siphon speed. Or whatever variations.
This is not to bash warriors. Or sins. I think both classes require more skill to play than mashing buttons. But there is a limited amount of skill you can put into a game like this with current technology limits. I think they have, overall, despite our complaints, they have done an excellent job. Looking at other games, there are so many things about GW we tend to take for granted.
I'm guessing nothing, or not much will be done about sins in Guild Wars.
Hopefully though, we can present the Assassin argument, why they're good, fun, useful, necessary to game balance to keep casters from running rampant, etc to get them the placement they deserve in GW 2.
Sort of off topic, but are they coming out with another expansion before GW 2 that they could change sins in? Or does it go straight to 2?
So is the concept of mildly-damaging spikes (think: 1/2 to 3/5 of a character's health) with somewhat low energy cost and low recharge, along with high amounts of disruption and other utility "worth the trade", if designed correctly?[/QUOTE]
At this point I would say an enthusiastic "Yes."
The problem with Assassins, is if they get the kill, people go "Wow! Sins are so overpowered! They take no skill to play! It's just 12345 or however long their chain is.
If they don't get the kill, they are, usually, stuck in a lousy position , with bad armor, running and screaming. Ok, not really. But if they don't get the kill, at this point, they are a largely useless (IE underpowered) class.
Which is why I would suppport their move to moderate spike short recharge spikes, with utility, and healing.
As long as Assassins can kill from full health in one spike, people who can't figure out how to stop it will whine about it, yet you can't just take away sin spiking ability, give them nothing else and say "Ok, they're balanced now."
On another note,
I guess I don't really understand the 123456 sins have no skill argument. Sure, if you want to, you can play your sin that way. That makes you a bad sin. Either that, or you are exceptionally lucky.
In order for me to win, I always have to think about who to hit, when, and with what. When I started playing sin, I thought I could mash buttons and get kills. While you often can on a heavily pressured character, it usually takes more thought, timing, and skill than that.
If you still insist on the 12345 argument, then why are Warriors harder to play?
Wars must build up adrenaline.
Yeah? Gee, pressing c space is so much harder than 12345.
Then warriors (spike wars) do their chain. Maybe wars take more skill because they arrange their chain 34251. Beats me.
Pressure wars just use their pressure.
Look! Running foe! Wars do bull strike, sins do siphon speed. Or whatever variations.
This is not to bash warriors. Or sins. I think both classes require more skill to play than mashing buttons. But there is a limited amount of skill you can put into a game like this with current technology limits. I think they have, overall, despite our complaints, they have done an excellent job. Looking at other games, there are so many things about GW we tend to take for granted.
I'm guessing nothing, or not much will be done about sins in Guild Wars.
Hopefully though, we can present the Assassin argument, why they're good, fun, useful, necessary to game balance to keep casters from running rampant, etc to get them the placement they deserve in GW 2.
Sort of off topic, but are they coming out with another expansion before GW 2 that they could change sins in? Or does it go straight to 2?
MercenaryK
There's no further expansions to be released. A-Net is going straight in to GW2.
This thread needs to be closed; it's too deep in the stupid flaming and crazy pulled out of ass ideas.
This thread needs to be closed; it's too deep in the stupid flaming and crazy pulled out of ass ideas.
yum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniffy
In order for me to win, I always have to think about who to hit, when, and with what. When I started playing sin, I thought I could mash buttons and get kills. While you often can on a heavily pressured character, it usually takes more thought, timing, and skill than that.
Quote: Wars must build up adrenaline.
Yeah? Gee, pressing c space is so much harder than 12345.
Then warriors (spike wars) do their chain. Maybe wars take more skill because they arrange their chain 34251. Beats me.
Pressure wars just use their pressure.
Look! Running foe! Wars do bull strike, sins do siphon speed. Or whatever variations. you're bad. Don't post about something you have no idea about.
Quote:
It's not just "people who can't figure out how to stop it". It's that other classes have to do so much more to do such a thing.|
This is not to bash warriors. Or sins. I think both classes require more skill to play than mashing buttons. But there is a limited amount of skill you can put into a game like this with current technology limits. I think they have, overall, despite our complaints, they have done an excellent job. Looking at other games, there are so many things about GW we tend to take for granted. I'm guessing nothing, or not much will be done about sins in Guild Wars. Hopefully though, we can present the Assassin argument, why they're good, fun, useful, necessary to game balance to keep casters from running rampant, etc to get them the placement they deserve in GW 2. except for rits, dervs, paras,sins and necros, everything is good. Quote:
This is a point that has been realized by pretty much the whole of the PvP community - Assassins are either underpowered, or gimmicky-overpowered. There is no grey area; there is no in-between where they are balanced, as the mechanic of skills that guarantee instagib does not allow such.
Quote: |
Versatility on Sins. Pretty dreams!
And that it simply takes too little skill to do it.
Quote:
I guess I don't really understand the 123456 sins have no skill argument. Sure, if you want to, you can play your sin that way. That makes you a bad sin. Either that, or you are exceptionally lucky.
In order for me to win, I always have to think about who to hit, when, and with what. When I started playing sin, I thought I could mash buttons and get kills. While you often can on a heavily pressured character, it usually takes more thought, timing, and skill than that. I'll focus on that, as you seem to think the argument is foiled by the fact that Assassins need such skills.
The fact of the matter is, all classes need such gameplay skills. The Assassin of course requires a basic level of gaming knowledge to play properly.
However, while other professions have other specific skills they need to utilize, the Assassin requires no other skill than the basics.
Quote: If you still insist on the 12345 argument, then why are Warriors harder to play?
Wars must build up adrenaline.
Yeah? Gee, pressing c space is so much harder than 12345.
Then warriors (spike wars) do their chain. Maybe wars take more skill because they arrange their chain 34251. Beats me.
Pressure wars just use their pressure.
Look! Running foe! Wars do bull strike, sins do siphon speed. Or whatever variations. Warriors need to pressure; staying on the frontline, knowing when to overextend, when to retreat, when to lineback, etc, is pretty advanced methinks.
Spike warriors don't have an instagib combo - they rely on their team to achieve kills.
At least it's more than picking an unprotted target then pressing 123456.
Quote: This is not to bash warriors. Or sins. I think both classes require more skill to play than mashing buttons. But there is a limited amount of skill you can put into a game like this with current technology limits. I think they have, overall, despite our complaints, they have done an excellent job. Looking at other games, there are so many things about GW we tend to take for granted. Yes, we take a lot of things in GW for granted. That's mainly because it's pretty much the only RPG game with a good PvP model; people complain a lot about balance due to players liking better balance. I agree that GW is (was, still probably is) an excellent game; the complaining community is just business as usual.
Obviously you don't actually roll your head on the keyboard and score kills. But you could probably play an Assassin with a single hand.
Quote: I'm guessing nothing, or not much will be done about sins in Guild Wars.
Hopefully though, we can present the Assassin argument, why they're good, fun, useful, necessary to game balance to keep casters from running rampant, etc to get them the placement they deserve in GW 2. Necessary to game balance to keep casters from running rampant...? I don't get you. Do you mean that Assassins keep casters from running rampant due to their superior damage?
If so, look at a Warrior.
Quote: Originally Posted by fireflyry So simple, yet so true.
Amazing people can't seem to get their head around this obvious class mechanic and instead repeat the mantra of 12345 Sin's being idiots or noobs when the class is designed for skills to be used in a consecutive manner.
Duh.
Blame the game design, not the player using it to it's highest potential in terms of DPS or effectiveness in game. Which is what we're doing, methinks.
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Originally Posted by LaserLight
Alright...leaving aside my issues with damage capability/style for now, and I do have them...I want to talk about this whole demolishing of all Shadow Step skills idea thing. First of all, it's been mentioned in this thread how adept the top players in the game are at keeping track of a dizzying array of variables in their heads, with a glance. I find it unfathomable that such players wouldn't know, pretty much exactly, what aggro range from a green dot is even without the greyed area in your compass. Hell I've nearly got that and I freely admit to not being such an uber-1337 player as everyone in this thread telling me to shut up and delete my Assassin for a Warrior. It's mainly not the ability to track a character; it's more that Assassins have a reasonable range of threat even when in their own midline, and a positively huge one when he decides to step up a bit. It's also due to that that Assassins are "skillless". Quote:
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