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Hott Bill
Grenth was the best till the Nerf. And it looked totally badass
Amadei
Lyssa or Melandru > all.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Meth
I have to point out that a zealous scythe with IAS gives you nearly an 8 effective energy regen boost. Also, its not like anyone ever thought of pre-casting a skill that lasts over a minute.
I think you're onto something there 
Online Gamer
remind me what was grenth like before nerf?
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Online Gamer
remind me what was grenth like before nerf?
It was the same as it is now, just a much longer duration. It may have worked on any attack instead of just attack skills, I don't remember.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
It was the same as it is now, just a much longer duration. It may have worked on any attack instead of just attack skills, I don't remember.
It only worked on attack skills, iirc.
but Wild Blow was also on a shorter recharge then.
but Wild Blow was also on a shorter recharge then.
Burst Cancel
PvE Mel is fine on energy with zealous scythe and/or precasting. However, I think Lyssa is strictly better in most PvE areas.
While Dwayna is quite a looker, I don't see what's so great about her from an effectiveness standpoint. I still can't think of an area where the hexes are so bad that I'd get more use out of Dwayna than Mel or Lyssa.
While Dwayna is quite a looker, I don't see what's so great about her from an effectiveness standpoint. I still can't think of an area where the hexes are so bad that I'd get more use out of Dwayna than Mel or Lyssa.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
It only worked on attack skills, iirc.
but Wild Blow was also on a shorter recharge then. And it wasn't like only on attack skills wasn't enough.
On topic - PvE - Lyssa or Melandru, PvP - Melandru.
From what I recall, all Avatar durations were 10...63. And then came buffs/nerfs.
but Wild Blow was also on a shorter recharge then. And it wasn't like only on attack skills wasn't enough.
On topic - PvE - Lyssa or Melandru, PvP - Melandru.
From what I recall, all Avatar durations were 10...63. And then came buffs/nerfs.
Sister Rosette
Avatars make me wish we could bring 2 elites on our bars....
[skill]Avatar of Dwayna[/skill][skill]Onslaught[/skill]
Game over.
[skill]Avatar of Dwayna[/skill][skill]Onslaught[/skill]
Game over.
MisterB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
While Dwayna is quite a looker, I don't see what's so great about her from an effectiveness standpoint. I still can't think of an area where the hexes are so bad that I'd get more use out of Dwayna than Mel or Lyssa.
I can think of one, but only if you are trying to vanquish in hard mode. Naturally, that doesn't discount your point so much as provide a possible exception. Here: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Tears_of_the_Fallen
The Skale travel in mobs of six, and they all have Spiteful Spirit on 5 second recharge.
The Skale travel in mobs of six, and they all have Spiteful Spirit on 5 second recharge.
Sirius-NZ
Haha... yeah. Melandru + EDA would be hilarious as well.
Best avatar as many have stated depends on game type; for PvP, it's probably still Melandru, although Dwayna is useful against Mesmers/Necroes. For PvE, usually Lyssa simply because the damage output goes into the retarded range - especially combined with AoHM and HoF.
Best looking avatar would have to be Dwayna.
Best avatar as many have stated depends on game type; for PvP, it's probably still Melandru, although Dwayna is useful against Mesmers/Necroes. For PvE, usually Lyssa simply because the damage output goes into the retarded range - especially combined with AoHM and HoF.
Best looking avatar would have to be Dwayna.
ensoriki
Dwayna would totally see more play if there were more hexes in pve.
And in PvP hexes don't last long enough outside of AB/RA for it to matter.
However...healing whenever you use a skill IS, very handy.
What kind of monk doesn't like the guy who's constantly healing himself as he kills stuff.
And in PvP hexes don't last long enough outside of AB/RA for it to matter.
However...healing whenever you use a skill IS, very handy.
What kind of monk doesn't like the guy who's constantly healing himself as he kills stuff.
Sirius-NZ
Yeah, pretty much...
If Grenth lasted a little longer and Balthazar had 33% IAS instead of run speed, all five avatars would actually be good in certain situations.
If Grenth lasted a little longer and Balthazar had 33% IAS instead of run speed, all five avatars would actually be good in certain situations.
Online Gamer
What IAS again?
Biostem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Online Gamer
What IAS again?
IAS = increased attack speed
I like Lyssa in PvE.
I like Lyssa in PvE.
Burst Cancel
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki
However...healing whenever you use a skill IS, very handy.
What kind of monk doesn't like the guy who's constantly healing himself as he kills stuff. I'm a monk player - trust me, we much prefer you frontliners killed stuff faster rather than waste skill slots (especially that all-important elite slot) on something that we do already, better than you can. If the team is blowing up, the solution isn't to bring self-heal on the frontline - the solution is to Bring an Invincigon.
The primary point of Dwayna isn't the heal, it's the hex removal. The important hexes to remove are, again, strong punishment hexes like Spiteful, or shutdown hexes. Degen and weaker damage hexes aren't worth removing at all, because a single WoH will clean you up just fine. Basically, if it doesn't significantly affect your ability to pwn face, it's probably not something you have to care about.
What kind of monk doesn't like the guy who's constantly healing himself as he kills stuff. I'm a monk player - trust me, we much prefer you frontliners killed stuff faster rather than waste skill slots (especially that all-important elite slot) on something that we do already, better than you can. If the team is blowing up, the solution isn't to bring self-heal on the frontline - the solution is to Bring an Invincigon.
The primary point of Dwayna isn't the heal, it's the hex removal. The important hexes to remove are, again, strong punishment hexes like Spiteful, or shutdown hexes. Degen and weaker damage hexes aren't worth removing at all, because a single WoH will clean you up just fine. Basically, if it doesn't significantly affect your ability to pwn face, it's probably not something you have to care about.
Sirugel Kai
1. Balthazar ( good +40, holy damage is armor ignoring and doing 2x on some enemys, moving faster is always nice)
2. Lyssa (Good Damage, +energy is always nice)
3 Melandru (Would be #1 if it wasnt 25 energy. Even with a +20E staff its hard to use attack skills after you cast it)
4 Dwayna ( Just rely on the monk. or take self heal)
5. Grenth ( No comment.)
2. Lyssa (Good Damage, +energy is always nice)
3 Melandru (Would be #1 if it wasnt 25 energy. Even with a +20E staff its hard to use attack skills after you cast it)
4 Dwayna ( Just rely on the monk. or take self heal)
5. Grenth ( No comment.)
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirugel Kai
1. Balthazar ( good +40, holy damage is armor ignoring and doing 2x on some enemys, moving faster is always nice)
this is the problem with the PvE community. they dont understand what skills do.
1. +40 armor is not good enough for an elite, take conviction.
2. holy damage is not armor ignoring. i repeat, holy damage is NOT armor ignoring.
2. b. it does however ignore elemental and physical resistances
2. c. its only double damage against undead, and AOHM should be on your bar already.
3. its "nice" not useful, when was the last time you had to chase down a foe in NM?
1. +40 armor is not good enough for an elite, take conviction.
2. holy damage is not armor ignoring. i repeat, holy damage is NOT armor ignoring.
2. b. it does however ignore elemental and physical resistances
2. c. its only double damage against undead, and AOHM should be on your bar already.
3. its "nice" not useful, when was the last time you had to chase down a foe in NM?
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirugel Kai
3 Melandru (Would be #1 if it wasnt 25 energy. Even with a +20E staff its hard to use attack skills after you cast it)
Get a zealous scythe.
Sirius-NZ
Thing is... 33% run can be duplicated pretty easily with Pious Haste anyway. Or Rush, or Signet of Mystic Speed, or a few either things... all have their disadvantages, but really, when you're chasing something they aren't too serious. You won't be chasing something that much.
And I found it rather odd that AoHM isn't listed to convert your attacks to holy damage... even though it definitely does.
And I found it rather odd that AoHM isn't listed to convert your attacks to holy damage... even though it definitely does.
Sirugel Kai
If i used a melandru bar it would be like this ( on PVX )
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill][skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
Even with all radiant insignias and a zelous scythe its hard to keep your energy up
If you use melandru + eternal aura.. Thats 35 energy
Then you have to use zealous renewal wich is another 10
And if you use a +20E staff your energy will stay at 0 for a while after you cast all of that
That is why i dont like Melandru
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill][skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
Even with all radiant insignias and a zelous scythe its hard to keep your energy up
If you use melandru + eternal aura.. Thats 35 energy
Then you have to use zealous renewal wich is another 10
And if you use a +20E staff your energy will stay at 0 for a while after you cast all of that
That is why i dont like Melandru
moko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirugel Kai
If i used a melandru bar it would be like this ( on PVX )
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill][skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
Even with all radiant insignias and a zelous scythe its hard to keep your energy up
If you use melandru + eternal aura.. Thats 35 energy
Then you have to use zealous renewal wich is another 10
And if you use a +20E staff your energy will stay at 0 for a while after you cast all of that
That is why i dont like Melandru k, so, if were smart you'd-
a) use zealous renewal good, so that it ends and grants you lots of energy just when you need it for melandru
b) you get zealous sweep
c) stop using radiant insignias
d) not use rebirth
e) pre-cast melandru so you have energy for combat
the additional energy from eternal aura doesn't count; you use that on all avatars.
GUESS IT'S TOO HARD TO USE GUYS.
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill][skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
Even with all radiant insignias and a zelous scythe its hard to keep your energy up
If you use melandru + eternal aura.. Thats 35 energy
Then you have to use zealous renewal wich is another 10
And if you use a +20E staff your energy will stay at 0 for a while after you cast all of that
That is why i dont like Melandru k, so, if were smart you'd-
a) use zealous renewal good, so that it ends and grants you lots of energy just when you need it for melandru
b) you get zealous sweep
c) stop using radiant insignias
d) not use rebirth
e) pre-cast melandru so you have energy for combat
the additional energy from eternal aura doesn't count; you use that on all avatars.
GUESS IT'S TOO HARD TO USE GUYS.
Sirugel Kai
Why in the world would i stop using radiant insignias.. Those help with energy >_>
Tab
No they don't. They don't give you any energy management - no regen, no energy when x is satisfied. A full set of Radiants will let you use one more attack skill in an entire battle.
Sirugel Kai
As far as im aware there isnt any rune or insignia that gives you more energy regen
Tab
There isn't, that's why you run Survivor.
Sirugel Kai
Is it odd that i suddenly feel like an idiot. >_>
moko
No.
________________
________________
Div
No.
______________
I am better than Moko.
______________
I am better than Moko.
Tab
_____________________
I see what you did there.
I see what you did there.
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
. I've only ever H/H'd with my Derv because so perhaps that is what is colouring my view. I'll try subbing in a smiter for my channeler hero tonight an see whether it changes my mind.
I ran the following build through domain of pain NM last night: [skill]Chilling Victory[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Blow[/skill]Save Yourselves[skill]avatar of melandru[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Heart of Fury[/skill]Aura of Holy Might
I brought talky as a RoD/RoF zealots smiter to add extra energy regen, and whilst that helped, there were still energy issues and I was not able to use my attack skills on recharge. The biggest issues came when AoHM or HoF would end soon after an avatar needed to be re-applied when I would need to swaps to a 30/-2 set to cast and then be left without attack skills for 5-10 seconds.
Overall I found that the progress of the party was at least 10% slower than would have been the case with an equivalent Lyssa build.
Just for the record, precasting doesn't help with the energy unless you stop and wait for it to regen before engaging. This is counter productive, as it doesn't just lower your dps while you're regenning, eliminates completely for both you and the rest of your party.
Online Gamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirugel Kai
If i used a melandru bar it would be like this ( on PVX )
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill][skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
Even with all radiant insignias and a zelous scythe its hard to keep your energy up
If you use melandru + eternal aura.. Thats 35 energy
Then you have to use zealous renewal wich is another 10
And if you use a +20E staff your energy will stay at 0 for a while after you cast all of that
That is why i dont like Melandru I would replace[skill]Eternal Aura[/skill] with [skill]Chilling Victory[/skill]
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Wearying Strike[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Conviction[/skill]Eternal Aura[skill]Zealous Renewal[/skill][skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]
Even with all radiant insignias and a zelous scythe its hard to keep your energy up
If you use melandru + eternal aura.. Thats 35 energy
Then you have to use zealous renewal wich is another 10
And if you use a +20E staff your energy will stay at 0 for a while after you cast all of that
That is why i dont like Melandru I would replace[skill]Eternal Aura[/skill] with [skill]Chilling Victory[/skill]
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Online Gamer
I would replace[skill]Eternal Aura[/skill] with [skill]Chilling Victory[/skill]
Eternal aura allows you to keep up your avatar indefinitely. It's a staple on PvE avatar builds.
Cazzum
I think some of you are being a bit harsh with AoB. In FoW I find it a very effective skill, especially when you get to the skeletons. Which avatar lets you hit 150s+ on the skeles? The +40 AL is handy, especially for taking hits. Then there's the +33% run boost. 60+ seconds of Faster running ftw? Most runs take about that amount of time, and if they dont, use eternal aura.
Overall, however, I'd have to say Dwayna. MAinly because I use it for FoW solo farming.
Overall, however, I'd have to say Dwayna. MAinly because I use it for FoW solo farming.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cazzum
I think some of you are being a bit harsh with AoB. In FoW I find it a very effective skill, especially when you get to the skeletons. Which avatar lets you hit 150s+ on the skeles? The +40 AL is handy, especially for taking hits. Then there's the +33% run boost. 60+ seconds of Faster running ftw? Most runs take about that amount of time, and if they dont, use eternal aura.
Overall, however, I'd have to say Dwayna. MAinly because I use it for FoW solo farming. The speed boost is not needed, the +40 armor isn't great because most dervishes bring conviction (16 less armor isn't going to make a huge difference) and if you want to use holy damage, just use heart of holy flame.
Overall, however, I'd have to say Dwayna. MAinly because I use it for FoW solo farming. The speed boost is not needed, the +40 armor isn't great because most dervishes bring conviction (16 less armor isn't going to make a huge difference) and if you want to use holy damage, just use heart of holy flame.
Cazzum
Yes but arkantos, why use 3 different skills when you can use one? The running boost, yes not entirely helpfull, but good for running other characters. With the +40 armour, you can survive hits while running. Also IIRC armour boosting skills stack, (not entirely sure on that), therefore you can get a huge armour buff from 2 skills. Heart of holy flame and Heart of fury dont last as long as AoB, when AoB is used for getting holy damage you also get the armour and speed boosts. TBH I'm not out to prove its the best one there, but you dont give it enough credit.
Kale Ironfist
Max armor stack is +25 (unless from a single source), so any armor beyond Avatar of Balthazar is useless. The increased run speed is negligible in PvE, considering Dervishes have Pious Haste and there really isn't much need for a speed boost in PvE anyway. The holy damage conversion is better served with a different skill, because you're expending your elite skill for it.
Even if you did get the full benefits of all three factors, what makes it better than the other avatars? Melandru gives you more health and immunity to conditions, Dwayna gives heals and practically makes you immune to hexes. Lyssa can output some insane damage and Grenth... destroys enchantments with ease (although it has terrible uptime, made better with Eternal Aura though).
Quote:
Even if you did get the full benefits of all three factors, what makes it better than the other avatars? Melandru gives you more health and immunity to conditions, Dwayna gives heals and practically makes you immune to hexes. Lyssa can output some insane damage and Grenth... destroys enchantments with ease (although it has terrible uptime, made better with Eternal Aura though).
Quote:
System_Crush
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Max armor stack is +25 (unless from a single source)
Really? Dam that makes an amassing tank useless, wel that saves me another few k for skills, elite and the time of testing it...
Online Gamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
Eternal aura allows you to keep up your avatar indefinitely. It's a staple on PvE avatar builds.
Okay so it instantly recharges all the skills but does that count for the extra minute and a half that it is disabled after the 30 second recharge time.?
Tab
It recharges through disable. After its disabled, it basically counts as recharging, and Aura, like a morale boost, instantly makes all derv skills available once it ends.