A Litany of Comparison: GW and World of Warcraft

Current preferences can be influenced by the order we played the games.
Once I had my fill of EQ2, I switched to WoW. Once I had my fill of that I went to GW. And each time I was all like 'this is so cool, it's much bettar!'.
I'm sure whatever game I play next I'll be all like 'this is the bestest evar!'.
If we want to have a completely unbiased comparison, we need to find someone who's played neither and make em play both at the same time.

GW and WoW are pretty much uncomparable. reason being is that GW was never intended to be a mmorpg. calling GW a mmorpg is like calling diablo2 a mmorpg. after all, they have many similarities:

-both are completely instanced, 8 players per instance (unless it's pvp)
-both have linear and highly defined storylines, which are mostly absent in mmorpgs
-D2 has the battle.net chat channels. GW has towns and outposts which does the same thing.
-both are focused on action and fighting, where-as mmorpgs focus on... essentially everything
-the "immersion factor" is completely absent in both, where-as mmorpgs are all about the "immersion factor"

if anything else, we should compare GW with D2, and hellgate:london. all three belong in more or less the same category of games. WoW is not in that category.

Quoting my exact thoughts.

So logical, but humorous at the same time. It's probably the "at the same time" that gets me : )

Sigh another sad person who "thinks" GW is not an MMORPG. Now lets look at what MMORPG really means shall we. (M)assive (M)ultiplayer (O)nline (R)ole (P)laying (G)ame. Now I will go though each part in turn.

(M)assive. Well I would say that being able to play with any one who owns GW anywhere in the world, which is about one million players vs the few thousand you have to play with in wow. Certinaly qualifys GW as being massive.

(M)ultiplayer. Since you can play with up 16 players at once in GW. That more than meets the definition of multiplayer.

(O)nline. DO I REALLY need to explain this bit? or the RPG bit.

So since GW more meets the definition of an MMORPG. I can't see why its can't be called one. The only reason some people(IE sad lil wow fan boys) do NOT call it one as they can't have anything thats better than thier beloved wow being compared to it. So thay have to come up with stupid ways of saying its not the same.

Yes I KNOW Anet says this is a CMORPG as they wanted GW to be different. And it is but that does not mean its not a MMORPG as well.

Redfeather said "Current preferences can be influenced by the order we played the games" This could be true, BUT not for everyone. For me the best MMO I've played was the first one. Star Wars Galaxies at least before SOE ruined it, with the CU and the NGE. Now since then I have played about 10 other MMO's * while some have had better graphics or combat systems or other parts. Nothing has been better as whole.

* This includes wow, Saga of Ryzom, eve, Mankind, Dungeon Runners, Guild Wars and LORTO.

As for which I think is better. Well lets just say I spent about 2-3 hours playing wow before I got bored, And 2700+ hours later I'm STILL not bored of GW. I think that says it alL.

You can do the same with Diablo and Counter-strike.

Again, Diablo and Counter-strike.

...

Diablo 2 and Counter-strike: Source?

Entirely wrong reason of why I do not call it such. I don't call it that because GW doesn't have anything an MMORPG player (hell, even a few RPG players) would want: End-game, emphasis on levels, gear relevancy.

I just don't want my friends to get disappointed - not because Guild Wars is a shitty game (it's a beautiful game), but because I don't want them acquiring false hopes.

Ever notice how people just keep making excuses for GW's and never answering my questions or the real questions that matter? What has the most number of sales, the most population and is on the top 10 list of best selling computer games since its release? Cmon you can type those 3 BIG letters can't you? WOW!

I guess Halo 3 is the highest quality fps shooter ever made, since it sold more than System Shock 2.
Heck do a litany of comparison between Halo 3 and System Shock 2. Despite them being technically 2 different genres.

wow and gw are rpg, thus they are "pretty" comparable

Who's talking about CS and D2?? Just because their are a few similarities. . . Point Being. GW has all the attributes of MORPG. Claiming D2 and CS somehow qualify in the comparison is flawed logic, and dancing around the point. Sure D2 could qualify, but seeming like you personally have exclusive rights to how people see the acronym MORPG, is shorts-sighted.


(fixed your quote, your being transparent Again, Bryant)

You mean GW does not have the Endless Grind that Dated MMO RPGs do, or the dated Number Parsing that Dated MMO RPGs do, or the Dated Evercrack addiction routine that has sucked in unsuspecting gamers, and left millions blinded to the values of Reality. "We're just having a little fun" same thing most crack addicts say, Heroin addicts, Gambling addicts, Alcoholics . ..

Fundamentally speaking, the only difference between WoW and GW is: WoW requires a player to sacrifice their Real Life to play the game as DESINED (Evercrack Formula).

GW game-play is designed as optional.

Too bad you keep feeding your friends VR crack and not the alternative. Vendor - Delete, it's your best chance for leading a real life. If the truth hurts, you have two choices, Fight it or Acccept it.

For those of you claiming you're Not one of the WoW zombie class, here's what's not happening in your household

WoW's effect on Family Life.

and this, Freakout, Keyboard Murder

Just go down the list to the right, you'll see plenty more of where that came from.

Comparison between GW and WoW is impossible (well not exactly impossible, more like ridicule... One excels where the other fails and vice versa). They both cater to different types of customers.

As an MMO, WoW just simply beats the current GW hands down. (If we were still in the Proph stage, I would say GW was a close competitor, but not anymore.). The current GW fails as an MMO/CORPG.

ANET might as well close the PvE servers and release a completely offline game and the current crop of players will still be happy,if not delighted. PvE in GW is simply mind-numbingly boring for an online game. The current PuGs are either awfully bad or just plain annoyingly arrogant. MAjority of the people just solo everything and there is no real sense of achievement from anything in GW PvE. Add Lootscaling to that and you have one of the most useless grind ever. GW simply has the worst PVE game community among MMOs now. That's where WoW wins hands down, and assert its supremacy despite its flaws (cartoony graphics, etc...). WoW actually feels like an MMO.

GW should be placed in the same category as Warcraft 3 with offline campaign and online pvp, but then it will have serious competition from the upcoming starcraft 2.

Simply put, WoW is better as an MMO, but GW is better as a competitive game (more balanced like Magic card game).

Balan Makki, there are people like that in lots of online games. Even first person shooters!
But I love all the parodies of that video. Some of the parodies are hilarious.

But WoW is such a big target, very easy to hit. I did love the time I spent in WoW, and it's not really WoW specifically that I'm complaining about, but the Evercrack formula, The "slight of hand", and deceit to fool the player into thinking the content of such games have any real-life value--enough so that they will sacrifice far more important things.

Yes, but that game came from an established franchise, as did the Sims, the game that outrivals WoW 3 to 1. :P

My point is that there's more to that than to what qualifies it as an MMO.

No. Guild Wars has little emphasis on levels and gear. That's something many enjoy.

You're always sacrificing your real life when you're playing a game, just as we're sacrificing our life on these forums. The difference being how much you sacrifice.

For me, I've found great guilds with great instancing and raiding schedules. I play for a few hours a night a few hours a week and I do fine. School is fine, girlfriend is fine, friends are fine, family is fine, work is fine. I am fine.

And you know what else? My guildies understand when I can't make such-and-such raid because I got invited to a movie with some friends. RL > Pixels.

The problem is not in the game but people losing their priorities. This has always been happening with video games since arcades. WoW may just be easier to point at because of the subscription fee.

I already told you why I don't vendor - delete a few posts ago. I'm not addicted, I just don't want to play through the same levels again. Not only that, but I don't think my friends would be willing to do the same.

You know that there are more reports of domestic violence in the US on Super Bowl Weekend than there is any other time of the year? You don't see anyone complaining about that.

21 pages...to achieve?

I wouldnt be delighted! I started to PUG in the last year or so and do pvp and it gave the game a new leese of life for me.

Also while I agree skill is the most important thing ingame, people have to admit that one driving force to playing GWs is to look better then the player next to you, whether it be with armor or titles or having a better skill bar and being able to kick someones ass.

By making it offline, we loose that and what is really left to do once you complete the game? This is one reason I play online games because I like to PUG occassionally, but I love that feeling of being more powerfull or looking better then someone else.

Yes it vain and yes it doesnt reflect skill or ability, but its human nature to want to feel better then someone else!

If I wanted to play offline I could play countless other RPGs that exist. I actually own Oblivion for my xbox360 and havent touched it in over 2 years and I got bored with it.

I prefere online games for PUGing, socialising, trading, pvp and that ego trip of feeling better then the other person. But I dont want to subscribe to do it and I still feel GWs has alot to offer.

The issue isnt that GWs is dieing... its just that if you play the game for 2+ years you are bound to get bored and move onto something different. Im taking break in HGL at the minute but im at lvl30 and gonna have to grind to lvl50 and I will probably come back to GWs for another break.

GWs could actually take a leaf out of HGL londons book and make both an online side AND an offline side! That way they offer all the same content, but you can choose whether to play online or offline.

GWs and HGL offer me something that WoW doesnt and never will.

1) free to play.
2) Instant action and gratification.

In WoW you have to grind to certain level before you can even attempt a quest or dungeon or most content. In GWs or HGL you can do anything at any point more or less and they are much smaller so you dont have to spend months reaching anything. HGL may have grind to it (at the minute) but its a hell of alot of fun because it does it in a FPS style.

You bitch just as much on the HG:L forums lol

And yet after 9 months of playing WoW, which I still admit is somewhat better than GW when you ignore the time & money differential, I found none of that particularly appealing and considered most of it a turn off.

According to you, even though I played several hundred of hours of WoW, I was playing it wrong and that must be why I find that GW is also a MMORPG that compares very favorably to WoW and, in fact, trumps WoW when you do consider the time and money factor.

MMORPG is simply that, all the other factors you and others want to hang on it are nerd arguments in the line of getting into a fist fight over which Star Trek series is better. Trying to pretend that GW is as different from WoW as counterstrike or Diablo 2 is to ignore what the other 90% of the MMORPG players are getting out of the games versus what the 10% no life asshats who think everything revolves around them are getting out of the games.

You can try to pretend that there's a huge difference, but there isn't. Most players are just running about as a fantasy character in a hybrid 3rd/1st perspective, often with friends, in a fantasy world doing heroic stuff, smacking monsters in the head, and taking their loot.

Why is this thread still running is beyond me.

I'm guessing it is because a number of people are interested in the topic.

You know what's sad? This very type of reasoning is not going through my mind, but I agree that many people do behave like that (I think it may also be because life gets more and more like that). The social pressure is getting the best of a lot of people, and showing off becomes the norm (and the other extreme in GW: people start fighting against the MMO side of the game and want to be left alone, in their instance, with their "real friends"). I asked earlier in this thread if this was also the case in WoW, meaning if it's statistically as bad as in GW, but I guess it's not a real question (and probably a question which interests few people).

I tried to write a thread on how the gaming world has become so competitive that we become aggressive and start naturally to behave like mercenaries:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10240997
I know it's not a GW-specific problem, WoW has people killing characters to still their stuff and annoy them all the time in-game. But I feel so sad for GW because I felt that there was a certain subtlety in the game and the approach Anet took, a lyricism combined to beautiful artwork and the willingness from Anet to share fairly with the community (which game puts you in contact with a person like Gaile, which is herself in close contact with devs?).

GWG looks like an extreme version of what's happening in-game, though it's decomposed into subforums (Q&A is very often friendly, Riverside is tough like PvP and trolled, the lore forums are sweet like PvE) and that may look ok. But it follows the same trend.

People will blame the game designers (yes, they do have a part of the responsibility) or the other people in-game (Zinger's example is blatant, see the post where he references the screenshots), always forgetting the role they played in this non-sense. It is OUR shared responsibility, yes Sir, I'm guilty too, no exception.

*music of Gary Jules' Mad World*
It's a very, very, sad wooooorl

*puts back his human suit*

Okay, so WoW isn't a good game for you? I'm not saying WoW is superior because of this. Knights of the Old Republic wasn't terribly addictive (a game that ends) but I still consider it one of the best RPGs of all time.

I assumed such because you were complaining about respawns in instances. Respawns are rarely a problem unless you are, frankly, doing horrible.

When you consider the time and money factor, there are thousands of games that trump WoW that are actually good. What makes GW any different?
The fact that it can only be played online?

As I've said before: What Guild Wars offers is great. It's a big world with cool monsters, smart action, and overall a great feel. Pick it up for that, not for big and high-end weapons with a large emphasis on leveling, which are things people look for when something is labeled as an MMO (or an RPG for that matter.)

It's just that the games appeal to two vastly different audiences on a multitude of levels. They may have things in common, but this is what it ultimately comes down to.

Alright you're pretty retarded for saying that.
Brittney Spears sold more records than Black Sabbath does that make Spears more talented than Black Sabbath members? FU$K NO! I'd bet a hundred bucks that if GW had more players than WoW you'd be saying that sales don't matter. The Sims sold way more than WoW did does that make The Sims better than WoW. Stop being a retard and take your retarded logic elsewhere.

I found problem with WoW is that its harder to stop and start again exactly where you left off. I think guild wars allows people more freedom to stop when they need to for whatever reason. In WoW you constantly have to move forward and always have to progress further and further. This is part of the addiction where people are on WoW for so long, because the game has a constant drive to keeping progressing and is harder for the player to stop.
This is mostly seen in raids or dungeons where people spend lots of time, up to many hours in it.

It's when people who don't have a large and open schedule starting playing with people that do. That's where people lose their priorities and get a bit lost in the game.

In terms of "stopping wherever you want to", this is not a foreign concept. That's been in existence ever since there was a "save game" feature.

True. But having played both games quite a lot, I have to say "stopping where you want to" is considerably more difficult to do in WoW than it is in GW, wherein you always have the option of playing with incredibly patient NPCs and you never have to worry about respawns on top of your character or getting kicked off the server for being afk for too long.

As an example, if you start a longish dungeon or instance in WoW (and most of them are quite longish, in my opinion) you really have to (1) stay to completion or (2) bail out on your teammates and lose all the time you put into it. In other words, there is a stronger pressure to just keep on playing. I really don't miss that aspect of WoW. Not at all.

Often in WoW, I would want to start a dungeon but I knew I couldn't because it would take too long and maybe I only had an hour or so. I found that very frustrating. Because I generally only have a short block of time to play here or there, GW is ideally suited to me -- even GW quest lines and dungeons that take an longer amounts of time are OK -- because GW "saves my place" if I am in the middle of something and get called away. There is also very little to no time wasted just forming a group in GW compared to WoW, once again because the NPCs are always there and ready to go. Waiting for that "tank" or "healer" for your group in WoW in order to get started just gets really annoying after a while.

In GW, you can start a dungeon full knowing that you cannot complete it because it's getting late, since you know you can just resume your efforts in the morning if you want to.

This is a subtantially different play dynamic. GW melds the option to "save/hold" your place that you would get in a single-player RPG with the benefits of a multi-player RPG in that it is fairly easy to group with others when you have the time and want to do so.

My preference of GW over WoW hinges largely on the fact that there is so much less "downtime" in GW than in WoW; I spend more time actually playing the game than I do finding groups and looking at my watch and thinking, "dammit. it's almost 1:00 AM and we are still slogging our way through Mauradon" or whatever.

This "save game" ability is a feature that gives GW, in my opinion, a definite edge over WoW -- and one that I hope is retained in some fashion in GW2.

While Guild Wars' doesn't have so much a "save feature" as much as it does a "pause button", it still is the reason I go H/H whenever I can - If something happens, I can "pause" the game (go AFK) and attend to it.

Yes it does.

*plays Gimme More one more time*

This may be another excuse for GW, but which game has been out longer? Which game has had a longer time to build up a bigger player base? Cmon you type those 3 BIG letters can't you? WOW!

I don't think 6-month headstart of WoW would be the only reason why it has sold *at least* 5 million more copies (according to current active accounts alone).

There is no way you could work out the figures for the amount of copies sold. Considering most hardcore players would have 3+ accounts?

WoW has sold more because it's a true MMO, and anyone who likes MMO's plays it.

...and who's willing to pay $15 a month! (and who doesn't dislike Fantasy)

It's not a black and white situation (pun intended)!

The only retard here is YOU because you can't answer the question you of course went into strawman and trolling mode as that is what real retards do here. So I win again and you = FAIL because you didn't answer the question you went off into Britney Spearsland. Apples and oranges apply here we aren't talking about Britney Spears we are talking about GW's vs WOW and the NUMBER ONE TOP LEADING SELLING AND PEOPLE PLAYING MMO/MMORPG IN THE WORLD. Sorry GW's is sooooo far down in that catagory of being number one. haha

Hey Master Nightfall you're right.
What should we do now?
Should we be sad? Should we no longer enjoy Guild Wars?
Should those of use who once played WoW, go back to WoW?
Should we recognize players who play WoW are making the superior decision and accept their criticisms of our preferences.
Really, what should we do.

Microsoft Windows has about 95% of the OS market, does that make it the better OS. No, surely not (it's getting better but it's not the "best"), only the most popular, and this can only be understood thanks to the history and the monopoly that Microsoft has created.

Actually, this comparison is not so bad: I think that WoW is the equivalent of MS Windows, while GW is more Mac OS X .

Fril, you're not appealing to Master Knightfall's goal here.
First we have to define what that goal is.
I hope my post could help us find that out.

No just admit which is the better game overall and play what YOU like. I never said GW is a bad game I just said it's not number ONE. That's what most people here have a problem with admitting when it is as plain as day. The numbers don't lie. The populations don't lie. The overall CONTENT of both games doesn't lie. WOW offers soooooo much more than GW's. As I said though before GW's is for the poor and most pre-teens and teenagers. Not much here for adults at all really. No progression, no real goals that have any real value. Just a handful of titles offer any real value within the game once you've defeated all the chapters and expansion pak. Thas all.

See you people that play GWs and love it are really doing the same things we/they are doing in WOW, the ony thing about GWs is you don't progress repeating the same silliness over and over whereas in WOW you do and much much futher with more carrots in front of the horse type play than GWs has. GWs becomes boring because it has no progression or anymore goals other than VANITY? To me there is no fun in gaining vanity without POWER to go along with it like in WOW or EQ or the rest of the others. GWs is different, but, it's still really the same as there is nothing more than repetitive play of the same thing session after session.

GWs is not even a good DIABLO 2 online to me really. It has all the markings of playing like a Diablo 2, set of heroes and henchies might just as well be the necromancers pets and golem. Mobs every 10 ft, big boss at the end. The big and best difference between Diablo 2 and GWs is the loot and character progression as well. I love my necro in Diablo 2, but, there's not one single character in GWs I'd say I really think is that great. The necro is fairly kewl, but, takes too much micromanagement to upkeep the pets and keep restoring them.

And actually that is how an IGMO would think. I rest my case your honor. We have won yet another victory in the truth of the matter.

I kinda just admitted it's number one.
So if I admitted it's number one, why are you continuing to criticize and insult my decision to play it?
You really think that my leaving WoW to play GW means I'm defunct or inadequate in some way?
I played WoW, got bored. It happens with every game eventually.
What should I do then? Accept your criticism of me. Okay, you are a better person than I am.
What do you wish of me now?

Well I wasn't really directing my comments at you Redfeather, but, at that other guy with the retard post. As long as you admit it and then got tired of it that's fine. Everyone doesn't like apples or oranges either.