Another bad effect of bmp marketing

jezz

jezz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

i think there is major confusion over this BMP issue..
but the facts are Anet can do what ever they want..they never stated that they would never release it again..that is what Gaile is trying to say..
it was exclusive at the time to qualifying accounts for the promotion, yet it can be released again because it doesnt say One Time Offer, it said Limited.
i rushed out and bought 3 more char slots...and now if they release it for sale makes me a little angry..but life isnt always perfect or fair.
i have friends that never bothered with the promotion and now have seen the weapons..and now want it. personally i think tough you missed it..i made the effort and you didnt so i am the one rewarded.
then again if there was more details on BMP as in rewards maybe more of these guys would of purchased first time around.


Gaile do you have any release dates for BMP sale in online store? or is it just in discussions at the moment?

cheers
jezz

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hott Bill
Anet said "If you spend money in the in-game store you would receive the BMP" stop crying because you were not smart enough to buy when the promotion was going on.
I totally agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IlikeGW
So the message in the future is: don't buy anything from Anet at release. In two months it will be way cheaper AND you can get any special promotion still.
If you want to look at it like that, why buy anything from any company at release? It will just be cheaper later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by To many people
Lots of people crying about wanting a box if ANET let people get the BMP another way, if the box is that important to you, why didn't you just buy the game in a real store? You didn't HAVE to buy GW:EN in the in game store to get the BMP, any $29 purchase would have qualified. It didn't matter what was "implied" or anything else what was said was,
Quote:
For a limited time, when you spend $29 USD (€26/£17) or more in the Guild Wars In-Game Store or through the PlayNC Store, you will get a Guild Wars Bonus Mission Pack for free!
I don't see anything about it not being available later. I also noticed a lot of people quoting this,
Quote:
The Bonus Pack will only be available to the exact account that fulfills this promotion in the in-game store
But people seem to be ignoring the part that the sentence is elaborating on the previous sentence.
Quote:
This promotion is non-transferable and is limited to one per account.

BTW Gaile, I know you try your best but some people just like to complain whenever they think they are being slighted, even over the simplest of things.

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
As much as I would normally defend you guys I can't on this one.

The language used *strongly* implied it, in fact it is pretty much the same language used for CE and pre-order stuff when it was out. It obviously isn't false advertising or bait and switch, however it isn't a very good thing going on. It reminds me of a friend of mine that purchased a device that would make all your remotes into one unit (mind, this is the late 80's early 90's when this stuff was new) for about half of what all the others cost - they received a rubber band and instructions on how to band them together. Not false, not bait and switch, not even a lie - yet no one is going to feel happy and content when this happens.

At the very least you chose to respond to threads in which it was *always* said to be exclusive (that is, the only way to get it) with answers to any questions except correcting that one. If you has even once said otherwise I would also be right there pointing it out. You pretty much gave tacit approval to the message there. In fact, how long was it before you even convinced others that it needed to be available in the online store - your constant "I will check" also strongly implies it was not originally intended to general release and was the equivalent of the CE stuff.

I don't see *anyone* arguing that they thought otherwise, they are simply arguing that it isn't fair to do this and now want both. I would note they only argued this *after* they saw the missions were good - they were assuming they would suck and not be worth it and those of us that spent *extra* in your online store had a belief that you guys would do good.

Ahh well, like I said before offer it for what I payed for it - 29 dollars and I won't really care too much (I still think it is wrong, but I can live with that). I would also say that you can sell the BMP for 5-10 dollars but allow the weapons to stay exclusive to those of us who supported you (much like the CE or pre-order items remain exclusive). I *do* feel sorry for newer players that would like to play those missions and were not there for the promotion. Lets face it, I (and the other BMP people) purchased the game to get the missions anyway, the weapons were a nice add-on and is most likely what most of the complainers are actually wanting.

In the end you guys said "support us and we will give you something special" (much the same reason many of us get CE editions) and it is now turning into something that is well, not special. I purchase the game because I like it and I don't see that changing, however I spend a little extra for the online store and purchase special editions to support you guys and it doesn't feel nice to have the promised reward to be given to everyone who didn't bother to do so even though they knew about it. If this turns out wrong I can't say my motivation for paying a little more to help you guys out is going to be very strong and I rather suspect that you will loose more than from that sentiment than you stand to gain from doing what some want for the BMP.
Although the language used in this case may strongly implied that Bonus Mission Pack will only be obtainable through this promotion, it does not make it so. We can look at this case by converting Anet's words into an if-then statement, which is, if you do participate in this promotion, you will get the Bonus Mission Pack. This if-then statement is only false when you do participate in this promotion, and you do not get the Bonus Mission Pack, since Anet has never stated what will happen if you do not participate in this promotion. So logically, Anet has not betrayed anyone by providing an alternative way to sell or promote the Bonus Mission Pack.

Now, we can divide up the community into four classes:
1. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and are outraged by this new decision
2. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
3. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
4. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack, and they want it

As we can see, 2/4 will not be affected either way, since they do not mind. Now we should know that 1/4 will be pleased either way the decision is made, but only one of the two will provide additional revenue for Anet. Even so, this will result in some angry gamers who believe they have been betrayed, and so, we have Gaile Gray here trying to please them.

What Gaile Gray is doing right now is pointing out the most simplistic logics to that Anet has never promised what these angry gamers may have implied to, which is true and logical. They are only trying to gain some revenue for the production of Guild Wars 2; it's not a crime.

Personally, I fall into class two, people who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care. Nevertheless, I have friends who didn't not participate in the promotion to get the Bonus Mission Pack, and their reasons may vary from they did not have money at the time to they did not expect it to be good. It would be a good if an alternative is made. Consequently, it's not really a big deal, there's really nothing rewarding to these missions but to have the joy from playing it, and I don't see why is everyone being so outraged to share this joy. It's only two days after Christmas, and I didn't expect the so-called Christmas spirit can be faded so early.

VitisVinifera

VitisVinifera

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Northern California

HoTR

N/Me

quoted from Gaile from the 11/02 BMP petition thread:

"In the end, the BMP is a modest "thank you" to those who used our in-game store to make their purchase. Its purpose is twofold: To encourage use of the in-game store, and to express appreciation to those who do. It is a win/win for customer and company. For those who did not choose to participate, or felt that they would rather have a box, or did not have a means to purchase, those decisions or those issues do not refute the overall value of the promotion, or the reasoning behind our offering it."

quoted from Gaile on 11/01 from here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...19#post3284019

The deadline was Noon Pacific yesterday, as it said on the official BMP Page and on the official wiki page.

The Bonus Mission Pack qualification period is over now. The BMP will be released sometime in November. I'll let you know as soon as we have a release date!

That's when the Dev quote threads end, and I know there are more. But these 2 show a breach of trust.

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy
Now, we can divide up the community into four classes:
1. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and are outraged by this new decision
2. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
3. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
4. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack, and they want it
Well I have the BMP and wouldn't say I'm outraged or don't care... more I just worry about how if their marketing terms change in this kind of random way how we know what we're getting in the future. I guess the answer is unless it's called "CE" don't put yourself out to get it because they'll make it available later? But that doesn't hold true either necessarily as many non CE special things aren't available.

genofreek

genofreek

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Jenova's Apocolyptic Remains [JAR]

D/

Gaile, I love GW and enjoy Anet's involvement in the community, but I can't say it much better than strcpy already did. I read the same description people have already posted about the promotion and bought GW:EN online with the assumption that it was, as stated, a limited time offer. You can use all the legalese and technicalities you'd like, and I DO respect ANet's commitment to their profits, but you can't deny that it said it was described as ending on October 31st and no other release date was offered. STRONGLY implying it was a limited edition. Sort of like other special events/items that were given out once and never repeated?

You must understand why we're annoyed about the BMP apparently turning out to be limited-time-but-not-really. The way you're dancing around the bold quotes posted by others on this forum now and splitting hairs to imply that BMP's going to be re-released is a slap in the face to everyone who supported GW's online store this summer. I bought GW:EN the day it was available with the understanding that I was going to get in on some fun new content that wouldn't be around forever, and now I've lost some trust in your company. I already know what the trust of a few players is to any business compared to another influx of cash though, so eh. I have mine already and I won't have to pay extra for the same content, at least.

Also, in before the thousands of threads and e-mails demanding the re-release of collector's editions, free GW:EN boxes for current BMP owners, event treasure/hats, the hippo, etc. All with the same argument -- people are willing to pay, so why not put it out there for resale?

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy
Now, we can divide up the community into four classes:
1. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and are outraged by this new decision
2. People who have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
3. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack and don't care
4. People who do not have Bonus Mission Pack, and they want it
Dividing up or generalizing never really works. I, personally, have the BMP and do care. In other words, I would prefer it get re-released somehow so that others have a chance to get it. I think it's a win/win for both the company and the customers (who don't have it and would like to get it). It's a Bonus mission pack, not a Collector's mission pack. Bonus meaning extra; collector's meaning unique, limited, or exclusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by genofreek
You must understand why we're annoyed about the BMP apparently turning out to be limited-time-but-not-really.
That's the thing, the BMP wasn't limited time only, the promotion to get the BMP free with online purchases was.

Striken7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

The District Nudists

R/

This really is the worst kind of "community relations" I've ever seen from a game company. Either you're going to stick by your word and not offer the BMP again, or you've changed your mind and will offer it in a different format. Either way, try actually taking responsibility for the things said, or quit your job, because this display of mock PR is disgusting. I'm tired of Anet using the "the player base is too ignorant to know the difference" defense whenever they need to actually make a decision/change, and this is the main reason I won't be playing GW2.

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
That's the thing, the BMP wasn't limited time only, the promotion to get the BMP free with online purchases was.
Finally, someone points this out.

genofreek

genofreek

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Jenova's Apocolyptic Remains [JAR]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
That's the thing, the BMP wasn't limited time only, the promotion to get the BMP free with online purchases was.
Again, splitting hairs. I see what you're getting at, but there's no denying that the wording made it sound like the pack itself, not the "free with purchase" promo, was temporary. Also that nobody hurried to correct players who asked if/stated that it wouldn't be available again.

I care in the sense that I believed BMP was only available this summer. I'm on a reasonably tight budget and gave up a few things (not counting the box; I don't care about that) to get it. I'm annoyed, yes, but I'm not spittle-flecked and fumbling for my monocle over here.

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

Quote:
Originally Posted by genofreek
Again, splitting hairs. I see what you're getting at, but there's no denying that the wording made it sound like the pack itself, not the "free with purchase" promo, was temporary. Also that nobody hurried to correct players who asked if/stated that it wouldn't be available again.
Well, that is true, but that could just be chalked up to the fact that they may not have known whether they were going to release it again or not. Also, keep in mind that is was a "promotion." Much in the same way that say offering a t-shirt with the purchase of a game/movie/whatever is a promotion. That company could later offer that t-shirt for sale separately and no one would complain. The t-shirt itself is not limited or collectible (unless otherwise specifically stated), and so the option to sell it separately later is left open, depending on how well it is received by consumers.

On that level, I don't see anything wrong with it.

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by genofreek
Again, splitting hairs. I see what you're getting at, but there's no denying that the wording made it sound like the pack itself, not the "free with purchase" promo, was temporary. Also that nobody hurried to correct players who asked if/stated that it wouldn't be available again.
It's not splitting hairs, it was a clear as day from the promotional page (still up on the official site) that there was not a limited time availability for the BMP itself, only the promotion. It's not like we are ignorant islanders who just showed up in western civilisation and were offered the BMP. No, we've been exposed to advertisements from the time we were old enough to watch television and we ought to have learned a few things about how to read advertisements. Number one is that the seller is going to emphasise what they believe to be the strongest selling points for the item, and people should note that the ONLY time any exclusivity is mentioned is in the small print legalese at the very bottom of the promotion, and context made it clear it was only conferring account exclusivisity, NOT BMP exclusivisity. If it were intended to have been the one time chance to get the BMP, that would have been a leading point, probably *the* leading point, in promoting it, and it was not. The emphasis is on getting a bonus mission pack free for buying stuff, full stop.

I find it laughable that so many reading comprehension challenged gamers, instead of realising they made a choice they now realise wasn't necessarily the best due to their misunderstanding, are yammering like drunken sports fan after their team lost and blaming Anet for their stupidity.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by You can't see me
Finally, someone points this out.
Gaile said this, page three. Go back and look.

Ow, I just burnt my tongue licking this lamp.

Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet

Join Date: Feb 2005

I'm sorry that a few of you are still struggling to see the difference between the Bonus Mission Pack and the Bonus Mission Pack Promotion. But they are two things, as different as a coupon for a bag of popcorn and the popcorn itself.

Truly none of us made statements such as, "Take part in this promotion because you will never get a chance to obtain the BMP again," or "We will not offer the BMP, or even a new BMP promotion, in the future." We are offering several promotions right now -- are some people reading those as "limited" or "exclusive" or "will never be repeated?" When we decided to extend the eligibility period for the Unlock packs, did anyone accuse us of lying for doing so?

If someone misread the contents of the product page, the FAQ, or the Dev Updates, than I am truly sorry, but a dozen pairs of eyes were on those documents before they were published, hundreds of thousands of pairs of eyes were on them after publication, and those who feel that we said either "We will never offer this promotion again," or "We will never offer this product again" are just simply mistaken.

I have read all that you have said, and I have seen all that you have quoted. But honestly, nothing says, "This is the only time this will be offered," or "There is no other way to get this product," or "If you don't participate in the promotion, you will not be able to obtain the BMP later."

With all due respect for all that you feel or believe or want us to do, the facts are that the BMP Promotion gave a free product to those who participated in the promotion. If that product is sold at a later date, there is absolutely no breach of trust or lie in doing so.

As a matter of fact, despite what some are saying, offering the BMP through another means is more supportive of the community than not doing so. Some players could not obtain the BMP because they did not have a means to use the In-Game or PlayNC Store. They literally could not participate in the promotion, even if they wanted to and were willing to meet every single promotion requirement. If someone misunderstood a promotion in which they took part, should that affect the ability of others to obtain a product that they may be willing to purchase?

strcpy

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
quoted from Gaile from the 11/02 BMP petition thread:

"In the end, the BMP is a modest "thank you" to those who used our in-game store to make their purchase. Its purpose is twofold: To encourage use of the in-game store, and to express appreciation to those who do. It is a win/win for customer and company. For those who did not choose to participate, or felt that they would rather have a box, or did not have a means to purchase, those decisions or those issues do not refute the overall value of the promotion, or the reasoning behind our offering it."
And that is *precisely* what I was talking about. DivineEnvoy can tell me all sorts of reasons why others want them, or even why others should get them and I don't necessarily disagree. Had it's marketing been different I would wholly agree. However, I doubt if it had been clear that the only thing you were getting was the BMP free instead of exclusive content it wouldn't have sold as many copies as it did, many of us would have went to a distributor and gotten their box and other goodies (I know I would have). Anet basically has to decide if it is worth ticking off those of us that went through the hassle of getting it to please those that don't (especially given that the BMP was a thank you for loyal customers that used the store).

So, is it worth making those of us who supported you feel that way? As many complaints you are getting over not having the BMP available *none* thought you would be (though now that you have posted what you did some are changing what they have been saying). If you go through with this then next time one of these "thank you's" comes up what do you think those of us that got screwed are going to say in the forums?

I really fell sorry for those that purchased three character slots (one of the things suggested) just to get the BMP, usually because they really wanted a box. I came close to doing that as it was either that or GWEN (I really like the boxes, the artwork is fantastic) and I know of a few people who did this. If/when this becomes available I can't wait to see some of these people come back and start ranting. Lets face it, if it was never meant to be exclusive then this answer *really* sucked - I suppose you did answer his *direct* question but in a VERY unhelpful way based on what the person was trying to do.

I'll still hold off on my final judgment and see how they handle it - if it cost 29 dollars then none of us are ripped off (we still saved 20-30 dollars) or if they still leave things like the weapons exclusive then I will be mostly happy and I imagine most of us BMP owners would be OK with it (While not happy that is a far cry from feeling taken advantage of, though some will feel that way if it is anything other than what was originally advertised). However, I rather suspect that nearly all of the whiners will still QQ some more about it not being fair. I rather suspect they are expecting cheap, unlimited, max gold incribable weapons with some of the best skins in the game and that is their main goal.

Edit:

Given the following comment: "I'm sorry that a few of you are still struggling to see the difference between the Bonus Mission Pack and the Bonus Mission Pack Promotion." I guess I'm not too optimistic. Ah well, this type of defense is approaching a "let them eat cake!" type of answer - better off not responding. I think this one is not going to end well on Anet's part with respect to PR, especially given if they try and do a "promotion" again - I shudder to see all the questions that are going to be thrown at them because they didn't *exactly* say something in clear language.

Well, thats it - I was more talking to Anet (us forum goers have bashed this to death already) so far and I've said my piece. Obviously many of us were wrong and we *should* read everything Anet says as if we were lawyers trying to figure out how many different ways what they say could be taken. They are determined that this is the case, so be it.

Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by jezz
Gaile do you have any release dates for BMP sale in online store? or is it just in discussions at the moment?
Oh, I'm just chatting here with players, trying to understand the concerns about the matter and look at the whole thing from several different angles.

I don't have any information about the sale of the BMP, or a new BMP promotion, or anything of that sort. Sorry.

maraxusofk

maraxusofk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

San Francisco, UC Berkeley

International District [id多], In Soviet Russia Altar Caps You [CCCP], LOL at [eF]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregslot
Nahhh, look at you all! So selfish.
Just becuase you got a new toy you dont want others to get it too.
Want to feel different and special? Putt a watermelon on your head and go take a walk!
Your are all sounding like spoiled children.
This is just like asking to lower some requirements at HoM, some people dont want it to because they have it and they dont want others to have it. Just like selfish spolied little children.
And now correct me if im wrong.


And by the way, you should be happy if they become available. Im sure there are at least 1-2 people you know that couldnt get the BMP for one reason or another. So feel happy for them, instead of wishing his disgrace.
omg ur statement jsut gave me the most awesome idea ever. wut if we took all the money that COULD have been made in investing in oil during the 80's, and redistribute it to everybody who missed out?!?!?!?! oh why dont we go just a teensy step further and take all property other people missed out on buying and redistributing it? OMG i think that becasue we are helping the social status of our society, ill call this idea socialism!

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

Initially I didn't expect the BMP to be re-offered. Later on - I think after I'd already bought GW:EN through the online store - I started hearing of people who for some reason (usually Europeans and credit cards) COULDN'T get it - and I remember Gaile saying that she'd push for some alternative means for those people to get in on it as well.

So some later release didn't surprise me at that point, although I wouldn't really have expected it to be actually sold in the store - more a follow-up promotion through some other means.

I still consider a new promotion - possibly involving magazines or something to cater to the European contingent, rather than needing the online store - more likely than just releasing it for sale outright.

jezz

jezz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
I really fell sorry for those that purchased three character slots (one of the things suggested) just to get the BMP, usually because they really wanted a box.
Please dont feel sorry for other players choices..i got the box and 3 char slots..i am happy with my choice.

Thank you Gaile for clearing this matter up, i have had mixed feelings about this, but in the end if others were not able to get it due to some reasons outside of there control, maybe now they will have that opportunity.
So any dates as to when this may be available for sale in online store?
so i can let my friends know that had missed out.

forget my question you beat me to it.

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

Quote:
Originally Posted by maraxusofk
omg ur statement jsut gave me the most awesome idea ever. wut if we took all the money that COULD have been made in investing in oil during the 80's, and redistribute it to everybody who missed out?!?!?!?! oh why dont we go just a teensy step further and take all property other people missed out on buying and redistributing it? OMG i think that becasue we are helping the social status of our society, ill call this idea socialism!
Well obviously there is a difference between digital code that can create nearly limitless commodities versus the real world with very real limited resources. You do realize that obvious difference, right?

To strcpy: You honestly can't be that bent out of shape over something you (and tens/hundreds of thousands of others) got for free, being re-offered (even at a price) to those who missed out. Does having the BMP make you feel that special that your life would mean nothing if everyone had it? I mean, if not, I don't understand why you would be upset in the least.

maraxusofk

maraxusofk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

San Francisco, UC Berkeley

International District [id多], In Soviet Russia Altar Caps You [CCCP], LOL at [eF]

W/

OH Btw gaile if u read this, i want u to make sure that if the BMP is offered again by having to qualify a purchase, u do announce it soon and make it so that the purchase can be made from either a while back (u can check the ncsoft account history) or make it so that u CAN transfer the key. while i would be somewhat pissed that the BMP is offered again, i wouldnt really be that mad. i WOULD purchase extra online crap if it means my 2nd account can get these items.

also, there are quite a bit of ppl holding off on line purchases so if ur company quarterly is coming up soon, the best thing would be to announce the pack offering to jack up the online store.

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

strcpy's problem isn't the exclusivity of the BMP, it's a perception that the wording of the eligibility criteria suggested that it would be exclusive, leading to him (?) making a purchasing decision he would not otherwise have made, and in fact would have been unhappy with (because of the pretty box and so on).

It's reasonable enough. The question is whether it was appropriate to believe that the BMP would have been exclusive. strcpy argues it was, Gaile argues it wasn't.

manitoba1073

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

OK Gaile you win,

So when you gonna rerelease the CE's for those that werent able to get them either as the same wordings were used. Lets not forget the first dragon festival, Since it wasnt my fault my neighbors house burnt down and took the electric out so I should get my first dragon mask right.

Redvex

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

Wait wait i open this thread not to know about the first bmp. My request was is now worth to spend money to buy two slot (i don't need them fast) or do you know something about future promotion and it may be worth to wait for a little?
(maybe access key to beta gw2)

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redvex
Wait wait i open this thread not to know about the first bmp. My request was is now worth to spend money to buy two slot (i don't need them fast) or do you know something about future promotion and it may be worth to wait for a little?
(maybe access key to gw2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I don't have any information about the sale of the BMP, or a new BMP promotion, or anything of that sort. Sorry.
121212121212

milan

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

BONE

N/

Thanks for clearing that up Gaile.

Pity it wasn't cleared up previously, perhaps when the promotion was announced, or when several threads appeared over different fansites looking for clarification.

I agree that Anet has not lied to it's community, however it has misled it, intenionally or not. If it had been made clear at the start that there woule be other ways to get this content I certainly would have waited and not paid considerably over the odds in the online store.

I try not to give my money to companies that mislead me, I'm odd like that.

On a final note, anyone see a correlation between promotion and Bonus mission pack?

Jongo River

Jongo River

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Yay Gaile!

At last some common sense.

I recall reading several threads when the BMP was first announced and it seemed almost a given that that it would be sold later. These "exclusive" arguments (with laughable connection to the marketing blurb) didn't surface until shortly before the release. Some folks started expressing disappointment/annoyance at missing out and received all the usual "clever" lectures from certain types, who felt the need to dredge through all the marketing stuff they could find and bind it to their point of view.

I have the BMP, I never expected it to be exclusive. The wording was clear to me - that the pack would only be applied to qualifying accounts, as part of the promotion, at that time. Trying to extend that to mean "never ever available again" is just silly. Those comparing it to the CE features are simply wrong (had a more colourful term in there, originally)! Those features *were* described as exclusive, the BMP wasn't. It's always struck me as more comparable to the GotYE weapon pack, used to promote the re-release of Prophecies and eventually sold in the store.

Doofledust

Doofledust

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redvex
Me and two other friend needs 2 slot for to have all 10 pg (we have only 8 slot).
We miss the bonus mission pack but now we don't know if buy or not in case will be online another promotion like that
The OP didn't say they wanted the BMP, they wanted to know if there would be a different promotion coming up soon.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by milan
On a final note, anyone see a correlation between promotion and Bonus mission pack?
It's part of the name. o.O

Redvex

Redvex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

R/

May access key to beta of gw 2

Wilian Norward

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

(Since Bold Emphesis is so popular in this thead!)

Let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that buying EOTN in the online store instead of the boxed version was completely useless since we will get the BMP by cheaper/simpler means anyway?

I am certain the majority of people who wanted the BMP had to either get more character slots or skip out on the boxed version of EOTN.

Good job Anet... tricking us into needlessly supporting your store.

But on a lighter note, why don't you take it a step further and give us some paid access to all those Collector's Edition perks that most of us missed out on? I'd appreciate that, who cares about the loyal customers that bought the Collector's Editions in the past. Apparently Anet just wants to make some quick bucks off their "loyal customers" anyway.

strcpy

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilian Norward
But on a lighter note, why don't you take it a step further and give us some paid access to all those Collector's Edition perks that most of us missed out on? I'd appreciate that, who cares about the loyal customers that bought the Collector's Editions in the past. Apparently Anet just wants to make some quick bucks off their "loyal customers" anyway.
Ah well, I couldn't resist:

I know, I purchased Prophecies too late to get the collectors edition, but since it was not a promotion (even though it was not billed as time limited) I am silly for thinking I may be able to get the Divine Aura.

I mean, yea it said it was exclusive to the collectors edition but they never ever stated that the only time I would be able to choose to get those rewards was at the time of release - at least until well over a *year* after prophecies was released. I expect that to be a lie then as it was obvious they intended to sale the CE stuff to those of us who later found out that the game was good (those that purchased it assuming Anet would make it worthwhile be danged), after all the simply said it was exclusive to the collector's edition, not that the collector's edition was only available for a limited time.

I really do not see how one could read it any different. Er, well, I suppose if Anet decided to sale the stuff later in their online store this would be that case, after all they never said the CE stuff would only be available at release, stupid us for thinking that should be the case - you know "assume" makes an Ass of U and Me.

I don't see a difference here - Until WAY ofter purchase Anet never claimed they would be only available during the initial release and in the initial promotion used *exactly* the same language, plus many of us never had the chance to get the CE rewards. Ahh, good for all of us loyal customers who spent extra in the online store for no physical goods but a strongly implied exclusive content - good thing we didn't expect non-special content. Then we may get something everyone else gets - er wait, us "loyal customers" *do* get it but have the honor of not only paying extra and getting no physical goods but we can also tell everyone it was during the "promotion" period instead of simply the "product release". Yea, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy over spending extra (not only that, but told I am a dunce for thinking that exactly same wording for other exclusive time limited content means exclusive time limited because it wasn't explicitly stated, being told I'm an idiot makes it all worth it 150%!).

*sigh* still one of the best games out there, this just makes me not want to do anything outside of what benefits me the most in playing it.

kestrelsalight

kestrelsalight

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2006

US

Bad Wolf Corporation [WOLF]

N/

I'm a little puzzled as to why, if it was so glaringly obvious that the BMP would be available after the promotional period, that was never stated point blank during the initial uproar...?

It seems like that would have circumvented a lot of the ill will on both "sides" of the issue, unless the intent was to muddy the waters and create a false panic that the promotion would be the only way to access the BMP content, in which case, feigning incredulity that consumers might have reacted exactly as they were intended to seems a little disingenuous.

Jongo River

Jongo River

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Since when has any marketing campaign included words along the lines of "snap up this offer... or don't, we might do something you prefer later"?

People are being very foolish here.

Cacheelma

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I'm sorry that a few of you are still struggling to see the difference between the Bonus Mission Pack and the Bonus Mission Pack Promotion. But they are two things, as different as a coupon for a bag of popcorn and the popcorn itself.

Truly none of us made statements such as, "Take part in this promotion because you will never get a chance to obtain the BMP again," or "We will not offer the BMP, or even a new BMP promotion, in the future." We are offering several promotions right now -- are some people reading those as "limited" or "exclusive" or "will never be repeated?" When we decided to extend the eligibility period for the Unlock packs, did anyone accuse us of lying for doing so?

If someone misread the contents of the product page, the FAQ, or the Dev Updates, than I am truly sorry, but a dozen pairs of eyes were on those documents before they were published, hundreds of thousands of pairs of eyes were on them after publication, and those who feel that we said either "We will never offer this promotion again," or "We will never offer this product again" are just simply mistaken.

I have read all that you have said, and I have seen all that you have quoted. But honestly, nothing says, "This is the only time this will be offered," or "There is no other way to get this product," or "If you don't participate in the promotion, you will not be able to obtain the BMP later."

With all due respect for all that you feel or believe or want us to do, the facts are that the BMP Promotion gave a free product to those who participated in the promotion. If that product is sold at a later date, there is absolutely no breach of trust or lie in doing so.

As a matter of fact, despite what some are saying, offering the BMP through another means is more supportive of the community than not doing so. Some players could not obtain the BMP because they did not have a means to use the In-Game or PlayNC Store. They literally could not participate in the promotion, even if they wanted to and were willing to meet every single promotion requirement. If someone misunderstood a promotion in which they took part, should that affect the ability of others to obtain a product that they may be willing to purchase?
I won't even be in this position, Gaile, if this is what you told us back then.

I, among other people, had some dilemma over wanting boxed GWEN AND the BMP but don't need anything else from the online store. If you've come out and said "Oh, guys, you don't need to worry. The BMP isn't exclusive to this promotion" (I know you'd want to use such phrase because it doesn't mean that it will be available later, but it *can* be). I would guess these would've been the result.-

1. I would've bought boxed GWEN happily, knowing that I might get a shot at BMP later (instead of losing faith in your company and quit the game entirely like this).

2. The amount of online store sale would've been less (and your boss would've been angry at you).

3. Players who wanted the BMP asap would still have done everything to get it.

All in all everyone would be more or less happy. I know I would have.

So why didn't you do just that? Why did you let me, among other people, call out on how the whole BMP marketing is so questionable and that the only side that would be win/win is ANET and not players? Can you HONESTLY say that you didn't think of saying such thing back then? Or that the truth is you did think, but you couldn't say it because of the point no.2 above?

Drop of Fear

Drop of Fear

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

i clearly remember the last few days the promotion was running a big banner camped at gw login screen saying "HURRY, THESE ARE THE LAST FEW DAYS FOR YOU TO BE ELIGIBLE TO PLAY THE BMP"
don't remember the exact words but i'm very very confident that a.net wanted us to be more then SURE that those days were our last chance to ever play the BMP. that was pointing a gun at our heads. "if u want the bmp, spend 26eur/29$ in our store NOW, it's your last chance."
^ u CANNOT go wrong with such a sentence.

should the bmp be sold alone for less then 26eur i can guarantee from now on i'm not taking part in any promotion a.net might roll in nor buying any collector edition again.
gaile, u can play with words as u like, but ppl are feeling fooled here.

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Ah well, I couldn't resist:

I know, I purchased Prophecies too late to get the collectors edition, but since it was not a promotion (even though it was not billed as time limited) I am silly for thinking I may be able to get the Divine Aura.

I mean, yea it said it was exclusive to the collectors edition but they never ever stated that the only time I would be able to choose to get those rewards was at the time of release - at least until well over a *year* after prophecies was released. I expect that to be a lie then as it was obvious they intended to sale the CE stuff to those of us who later found out that the game was good (those that purchased it assuming Anet would make it worthwhile be danged), after all the simply said it was exclusive to the collector's edition, not that the collector's edition was only available for a limited time.

I really do not see how one could read it any different. Er, well, I suppose if Anet decided to sale the stuff later in their online store this would be that case, after all they never said the CE stuff would only be available at release, stupid us for thinking that should be the case - you know "assume" makes an Ass of U and Me.

I don't see a difference here - Until WAY ofter purchase Anet never claimed they would be only available during the initial release and in the initial promotion used *exactly* the same language, plus many of us never had the chance to get the CE rewards. Ahh, good for all of us loyal customers who spent extra in the online store for no physical goods but a strongly implied exclusive content - good thing we didn't expect non-special content. Then we may get something everyone else gets - er wait, us "loyal customers" *do* get it but have the honor of not only paying extra and getting no physical goods but we can also tell everyone it was during the "promotion" period instead of simply the "product release". Yea, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy over spending extra (not only that, but told I am a dunce for thinking that exactly same wording for other exclusive time limited content means exclusive time limited because it wasn't explicitly stated, being told I'm an idiot makes it all worth it 150%!).

*sigh* still one of the best games out there, this just makes me not want to do anything outside of what benefits me the most in playing it.
Personally, I wanted to purchase both Factions CE and Nightfall CE. Although the released information told us that CE version should be in the stores the same time as the regular version, both games were late in shipment for my location. Since I made the decision to play earlier and stick with regular version, I don't blame anyone.

It's true that consumers never get proper detailed information on a certain product they are planning to purchase; however, with this said, it is still consumers' responsibility to do researches beforehand to ensure that the right decision is made. It is likely that you would point out that the company itself holds a responsibility to the product, but we need to note that the company has to ensure several other factors regarding this product such as licensing, the legal laws behind this product and more importantly, the right market idea to deliver this product to the consumers. Knowing this, it is not surprising that Anet may have misinterpreted some people in this case; however, I do wonder, why didn't people ask for confirmations at the time to ensure that they made the right decision? Despite that Anet's so-called misinterpretion may have been a contribution to your misery at this point, you got to know that you are the one who makes the final decision in purchasing a game, and thus you do have most responsibility to your decision.

To be honest, despite how many complaints you make here in Guru, Bonus Mission Pack is still likely to be on sale for the people who didn't get it. The exclusive contents tied to CE will always be exclusive. You will not get the GW:EN box, although it would be amusing to find out how Anet is going to make this possible. What's your point, and most importantly, what's your intention to your arguement?

Cacheelma

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy
however, I do wonder, why didn't people ask for confirmations at the time to ensure that they made the right decision?
We did. I did. And as you can guess we didn't get anything back, until this thread.

strcpy

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ
strcpy's problem isn't the exclusivity of the BMP, it's a perception that the wording of the eligibility criteria suggested that it would be exclusive, leading to him (?) making a purchasing decision he would not otherwise have made, and in fact would have been unhappy with (because of the pretty box and so on).
I'm a "him"

Quote:
It's reasonable enough. The question is whether it was appropriate to believe that the BMP would have been exclusive. strcpy argues it was, Gaile argues it wasn't.
Really, if that was *all* it was then I would mostly shrug my shoulders and go on - it wouldn't be the first time I misread something nor would it be my last. I've lived long enough to get used to that and I have been in the position of offering stuff to see it from the other end also.

I would guess that to be 50% of it - without that being true then nothing else would be. The rest is that Anet generally has fairly good customer service - nearly any of the other semi-widespread misconceptions are quickly squashed (look at my older posts on farming myths where I quote Anet on stuff that doesn't really matter). This one was WAY more widespread and Gaile and others regularly posted in those threads and never once said otherwise - in fact they came as close to saying it was true as one can without explicitly stating it. It was a VERY small handful of people that thought otherwise and none of them (as far as I am aware) have posted before Gaile responded to this thread that they always thought so (and a few changed their story) - even esoteric rumors are squashed by Anet MUCH faster and harder. This makes up a good 25-30% of it - given their standard level of community relations throughout this period and the obvious severe lack of it on this major issue I can only assume one of two things: incompetence or outright misleading me. So far they are insistent on the "misleading" end of it. Were it only a handful of wingnuts then I would be quite (again, not the first time nor the last I would have misunderstood something), however without the "incompetent/dishonest" thing coming back up there is no way they can claim they didn't know we all thought this.

Secondly add in that we (and that is a *really* large we) are "struggling" with a *really* simple concept which means I am stupid and I'm not a happy camper. No, again it was never explicitly stated, yet if I tell you that you can not speak or write clearly and can not fathom the idea that 2+2=4 then I don't have to explicitly state "you are stupid" for it to be apparent that is what you are thinking. This makes up the rest of it.

Best to have been up-front and squashed the thought that it was exclusive, especially how widespread it was and how may questions Anet answered that were obvious the poster thought it was their only shot at it (see the question I linked earlier for one of a myriad questions). Next best is to admit you were wrong - heck I, personally, would have accepted this one and would have argued on Anets side (again, look at my post history to see that I generally and not a whiner) . I will perfectly understand that there is quite a bit of money to make here and that takes precedence. Then we get into the bad stuff - denying that you did something that you clearly did. Even worse is to accuse your customers of not understanding something simple that we all know what you mean. In fact, Gaile's response has me of the mind that she could not see what you clearly did (and that makes her stupid) or is trying to exercise "spin control" (that is dishonest) and I don't really like either one.

I originally said I would hold off my final opinion until I saw that the final outcome was, however the post written while I was writing mine makes my last feeling on the matter, at best, bad. I rather suspect that it is "spin control" and not done fairly well - but the Gaile isn't really a marketing person and as such should have stuck to what she does best: be a liaison between us and the net staff. That means squash widespread misconceptions (especially ones that cost real world dollars) or tell the truth if they think they screwed up and not try and "spin" the thing - she does a pretty dang good job of that (I wouldn't want the job). Obviously one of those was skipped.

arcanemacabre

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

Much of this thread is just a great example of what happens when you ass-u-me. The advertising done with the promotion was done to excite and entice. It was a bonus mission pack because it was bonus (extra, additional) content added to the game. It was a promotion that had a limited time stipulation attached to it, and apparently some people believed that stipulation was applied to the content itself. That was an assumption, and it's nobodies fault but those who assumed.

It's still up in the air whether or not it will be offered again. That alone means that you (those complaining) are fussing and feeling betrayed over something that might not even happen! That is desperate. Even if it does happen, will you lose anything? No. In fact, we can still revel in the fact that we got it first. We've been enjoying it since the beginning. If it's released for purchase in the store, we can revel in the fact that we got it as a free promotional offer.

I honestly do not see what the big deal is.