Ursan....Thoughts?

upier

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
The reason we got Ursan in the first place was because people protested about class discrimination and how some areas deliberatly excluded some professions. Thing is, and here's where Upier and I agree they did'nt fix PvE to include mobs which the shunned professions could really help in, they gave us a skill that removed the need for different professions..
Exactly.
The goal of the Ursan change should be not the change to Ursan itself - but rather such a change so that the presence of Ursan isn't even needed!
But that would pretty much require re-examining EVERY foe, EVERY group, looking over at ALL the PvE skills and how they are implemented AND the environment.
And then - actions like this should happen after each PvP balance!

Now let's just think - how long has the "OMG! I just lost a survivor in the Vizunah cutscene"-bug been in the game?

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
they did'nt fix PvE to include mobs which the shunned professions could really help in, they gave us a skill that removed the need for different professions.
That was a working solution to an actual problem, no matter how inelegant. As Leprekan has been saying the whole time, the original GW is on its last legs and instead of a complete overhaul we are getting a quick patch job because the name of the complete overhaul is GW2.

Give a thought to some gameplay content that removes the differences between professions. Some of them makes everybody the same, like using UB or riding a wurm. Others like BMP and Costume Brawl transform your character into another primary profession. Now, think of the Monument of Valor in combination with the fact that there won't be heroes in GW2. It doesn't make any sense unless you will effectively be able to change your primary profession (or whatever it is called) in GW2 or there won't be a 'primary profession' at all, it's just a matter of how you spec your character. Or maybe in GW2 you will be choosing your attribute lines like you do skills now: 1 primary line (like 1 elite skill) that affects your armor properties and at max 2 other lines from all the available non-primary ones.

Why should you be worried about where GW1 is going when GW2 is around the corner?

Shanaeri Rynale

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

Pretty long corner..

Yes thats what i'm hearing on the rumor mill. that proffessions will work totally differently as to now, with even armor not being profession dependant. Anyway we digress...

Torqual

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/Mo

Sorry to arrive several days late and after the discussion has moved on but please add me to the list of people that don't use this skill and never will.

I'd rather play my professions using their own skills, thanks.

I don't see the point of making a whole load of different characters from different classes only to end up just using a single repetitive skill bar the whole time.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Who needs Warrrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Necro, Elementalist, Assassin, Ritualist, Paragon, Dervish? Ive got Ursan! (Maybe we can nerf monks ;D)
Who needs armor? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs weapons? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs skill? Ive got Ursan!

Its starting to sound like a venereal disease. *snickers*

"I've got Ursan..."
"Who did you get it from?"
"It must have been Timmy!"

trobinson97

trobinson97

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Guildless :(

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Who needs Warrrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Necro, Elementalist, Assassin, Ritualist, Paragon, Dervish? Ive got Ursan! (Maybe we can nerf monks ;D)
Who needs armor? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs weapons? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs skill? Ive got Ursan!

Its starting to sound like a venereal disease. *snickers*

"I've got Ursan..."
"Who did you get it from?"
"It must have been Timmy!"

Awwwwwwww.

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Who needs Warrrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Necro, Elementalist, Assassin, Ritualist, Paragon, Dervish? Ive got Ursan! (Maybe we can nerf monks ;D)
Who needs armor? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs weapons? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs skill? Ive got Ursan!

Its starting to sound like a venereal disease. *snickers*

"I've got Ursan..."
"Who did you get it from?"
"It must have been Timmy!"
This horse is obviously dead. Even you have stopped coming up with constructive arguments. Because you know that none of that post was accurate.

English Warrior

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

I ALWAYS use this on my warrior in PvE by far the best thing too use their if you run 5 ursan a QZ abrrager and 2 monks your unstoppable force .

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by leprekan
This horse is obviously dead. Even you have stopped coming up with constructive arguments. Because you know that none of that post was accurate.
Oh lighten up. Its hyperbolic sarcasm.

As much fun as i have dealing with the issue seriously, I can't really have anymore fun since nothing new is coming from the thread.

sterbenx2

sterbenx2

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

New England

Lunatic Legion

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Who needs Warrrior, Mesmer, Ranger, Necro, Elementalist, Assassin, Ritualist, Paragon, Dervish? Ive got Ursan! (Maybe we can nerf monks ;D)
Who needs armor? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs weapons? Ive got Ursan!
Who needs skill? Ive got Ursan!

Its starting to sound like a venereal disease. *snickers*

"I've got Ursan..."
"Who did you get it from?"
"It must have been Timmy!"
QFT

I don't and won't use ursan. Anybody that does use it, I concider them a skill-less hack. Let them have their fun fighting FoW or UW with it, I'll do it with My skills, My char, My weaps. skill>time spent!? what happened to that!? now its about grind Norn rank, join Ursan team. thereby timespent>skill because URSAN REQUIRES NO SKILL. Don't fool yourself into thinking it does. I wish I could delete it and the other form skills off my list.

Torqual

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds
I ALWAYS use this on my warrior in PvE by far the best thing too use their if you run 5 ursan a QZ abrrager and 2 monks your unstoppable force .
Considering the English language was just murdered, I think that was a pretty strong anti-Ursan post. :-) Irony FTW.

leprekan

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Oh lighten up. Its hyperbolic sarcasm.

As much fun as i have dealing with the issue seriously, I can't really have anymore fun since nothing new is coming from the thread.
Sarcasm!?!?!?!? What is this sarcasm you speak of?!?!?!?!

Sorry, just I knew it would encourage brilliant posts like the one that quoted yours. Fanning the flames of stupidity is no doubt fun but often times it is counter productive.

Fried Tech

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Yeti]

E/

You don't need to fan the flames of stupidity. It's already a raging wildfire.

GloryFox

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

Quote:
posted by Shanaeri Rynale
As to changes to the skill, make it an enchant. That way it can be stripped, shattered and Mallyxed in the same way as other skills would be that would otherwise break the game.
No Shan I'm afraid the damage has already been done. Enchants are too easily striped as is and this was meant to be along the power lines of a Monster skill anyways. No enchantment can contend with monster skills alone.

IMO This skill would have been better as a Form Skill all along like what the Norn have. Something along the lines of Dervish Avatar Forms. Even if it were a form skill there still would have been too many complaints and complainers about it.

This thread was doomed when it began.



Just a side note on what the Norn non Ursan blessing Bear Form is.
NORN BEAR FORM
10 2 60
For 60 seconds, you assume the form of a bear. While in this form, your Health is increased by 250 and your attacks strike for 25% more damage.

Neo Nugget

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

Well, dervish's can have infinite form with their PvE skill so........why have no restriction on them if you put one on Ursan? All i wanna do is do DoA with Ursan before it gets nerfed Haven't actually gotten the skill yet though.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Nugget
Well, dervish's can have infinite form with their PvE skill so........why have no restriction on them if you put one on Ursan?
Urgh....infi-tree...
Well, ursan is imba too, but by FAR!

draceena

draceena

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2005

Yes, Ursan is on my bar sometimes and Yes, I do use it but not all the time. I find I use the "I am unstoppable" shout a thousand times more (+armor, remove cripple, cant be knocked down).

I fine the attitude of "if you use it you must be a n00b,nub,noooblet" really rather unusual.

Case in point: I was trying to get into a PUG for a dungeon and the group didn't want my bar (which didn't have Ursan at the time, but a good attack/defence build) but wanted a specific build or you can leave. The build was one that everyone rolls there eyes at at being even dummer than Ursan.

How is "you must run exact build whatever" better than running my own bar or deciding to add Ursan to my bar....It' s NOT!

I suppose you get all angry at people who might like to use the highway instead of the back road to get somewhere....just because someone wants to use the highway dosent mean that you have to and no one is forcing you to use Ursan or group with anyone who might use Ursan.

Shinx the Reaper

Shinx the Reaper

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

Boston Guild

D/

I use Ursan with my war for certain areas like Slavers ,DoA, FoW or UW if the group I'm in don't have enough AoE skills to do alot of damage and knockdown

Other then that its all me from start to finish.

Aera Lure

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqual
Sorry to arrive several days late and after the discussion has moved on but please add me to the list of people that don't use this skill and never will.

I'd rather play my professions using their own skills, thanks.

I don't see the point of making a whole load of different characters from different classes only to end up just using a single repetitive skill bar the whole time.
Ditto on all counts. Have never yet used the skill outside of the one mission in GWEN where it plays a role, and I never will, either. I view it as lame, and game breaking. Nothing in the game requires its use (outside, as said, of the one mission to break the doors), as any competent team can overcome any area in the game. Its far worse than the Nightfall worms, which are limited to a specific area.

For those who want to use it, fine. Just count me out.

trobinson97

trobinson97

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Guildless :(

R/

Lord Sojar

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

rarely use it. I just use it for fun here and there. It is amusing for 1 hr a week, or less.

Dave-o

Dave-o

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

My Imagination

Team Santa [木凸木]

D/

One could use only a knife or a fork to eat soup. the other would use a spoon. where the latter would be easyer and fast, its way more rewarding finishing a bowl of soup with a knife (no slurping).

works the same way with Ursanway.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-o
One could use only a knife or a fork to eat soup. the other would use a spoon. where the latter would be easyer and fast, its way more rewarding finishing a bowl of soup with a knife (no slurping).

works the same way with Ursanway.
Normally I would agree, but in the case of a game I cannot.

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by draceena
I fine the attitude of "if you use it you must be a n00b,nub,noooblet" really rather unusual.
That's not what I've been saying at all. I've been saying that the second you click Ursan, it no longer matters if you're an experienced & skilled player or not - because Ursan is totally skill-less. The only sliver of skill is to not over-aggro and perhaps when to use the AoE knock-down (but if there's five ursans in the group & a QZ ranger, the entire enemy team is on their asses for the duration).

There's no shortage of ways one could balance Ursan - make it an enchantment, or make the ursan skills cost energy, or make the ursan skills adrenal normal attacks... - and as it's a silly, game-breaking, skill, I assume and hope that some sort of re-balancing of Ursan is forthcoming from Anet.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-o
One could use only a knife or a fork to eat soup. the other would use a spoon. where the latter would be easyer and fast, its way more rewarding finishing a bowl of soup with a knife (no slurping).

works the same way with Ursanway.
I think this is kinda off.

It's like using spoon yourself ("normal") versus being Spoofed ("ursan"). Problem is that there are people who eat soup with Fork as see no problem in it. They will have trouble eating soup and being spoofed will be blessing to them.

There are two different things in games, but many people seem to confuse them:

One is convenience, and you can never have enough of that. Convenience does not remove challenge, it removes bloat.

The other is challenge, and you can also have never enough of it. Inconvenient != Challenging. Removal of challenge creates false convenience.

One can also support the other. In order to get convenience of map travel from some distant outpost, you have to walk there. (you have to prove once you can walk there, then you can ride the car all you want). You can redistribute attributes and replace skill freely so that you can approach any challenge with right tools (you get the tools you need).

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

Staying on the line of silly soup analogies ...

... there are people who prefer to use a spoon (normal skills).

... there are people who just slurp it from the rim (UB) because spoons have too many moving parts to master.

... there are people who believe that eating soup should be a challenge and spill their soup over the mere thought that somebody is not using a spoon properly.

... there are people who just want to eat the damn soup before it gets cold, and as long as they do it at their own home couldn't care less about style points.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

That is the worst analogy currently in an unclosed thread on guru.

Squishy ftw

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

What kind of soup are we talking about here ?

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

I'm not quite sure but the prospects are good that it involves noodles

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmakinen
I'm not quite sure but the prospects are good that it involves noodles
mmmmm, noodles.

Avarre

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
That is the worst analogy currently in an unclosed thread on guru.
I'm going to solve this problem.