[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

zerulus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 22:19 - 801

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

You sir hit the nail on the head.

If any of us thought it was a bannable exploit we wouldn't have been doing it. Duncan showed that a ferry to end boss did not result in a ban. There was no reason for us to think this would either. If they had banned for Duncan ferry then only the mentally challenged would have used the Mallyx ferry. It isn't asking too much for a game company to take the same stance on all related issues.

I love how people try to use the notion of a double standard to avoid punishment for something they have done wrong. The other person wasn't punished, so you should go free too? I've seen it stated several times in this thread that the people who were banned did it because they "thought" they wouldn't get in trouble even though it was obviously wrong. Unfortunatley for you anet doesn't have to show consistency with their punishments for exploitation of its game. Hopefully this will deter people from doing these things in the future, as just knowing it is wrong to do is obviously not enough. I wish they would ban more people as some of the shit that goes on in this game is ridiculous, but at least this is a good start.

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:20 - 802

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

i never knew i would get banned.
I thought Anet would Just nerf it Like every other exploit there was.
So that's why people kept it quiet.
not because they knew they would get banned..........
they didnt want it to get nerfed......

If everyone knew about it, there would be too many people involved and your chance of a ban would have lessened a lot. By keeping it in a small group, you GUARANTEED your ban.

I pwnd U

God of Spammers

Join Date: Oct 2005

in the middle of a burning cornfield...

Scars Meadows [SMS] (Officer)

11 Jan 2008 at 22:20 - 803

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Isn't that the point though? They are willing to sacrifice a small amount of players to make a point. However, if its above a certain amount.. they are unwilling to ban anybody. Thats being impartial.

No the point is people cheated and skipped to the end of an elite mission. Whether by exploit or hack it doesn't matter. They breached the EULA and cheated to get mass wealth just like the dupers, who were also banned. That is the point. They cheated.

rath no more

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:20 - 804

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsoArt

There seems to be diffrent speculations as why 117 people were banned. From my understanding of the posts thus far, it would appear that 117 people had zoned (through an exploit in the client side program) into an unauthorize hidden server (outposts) reserved for Development and Testing. Furthemore, there are most likely more hidden outposts throughout the program that are not meant to be accessed by users. These hidden outposts probably serve the purpose of performing quick updates by ANET Developers and Testers such as those seen on Wedesday/Thursday. So it seems to be clear that being in an unauthrorized server constitutes a ban.

more then a few people gave exact details how to do this ive never done it myself but i really really think my GOOD friend of 2 years is gonna atlast gimme a smidgen of warning ig they are gonna get me involved with hacks.

this of course is only what we hear on here and there are always two sides of a conversation lol

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 22:21 - 805

Okay. Enough of the Duncan ferry and the pre-searing exploit.

ANET corrected those problems and said, in effect, don't do it again.

Some people didn't learn from that and now they are QQ'ing.

You didn't learn the lesson. You got caught. You got banned. End of story.

Clait

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Braveheart World Xi [any]

W/A

11 Jan 2008 at 22:22 - 806

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drop of Fear

and noone told me because they knew i would have reported them all and caused the closure of the exploit in 5 minutes. easy

Considering people have been reporting this for months, I dont think you could deliver on that.

Drop of Fear

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:23 - 807

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Considering people have been reporting this for months, I dont think you could deliver on that.

i would have taken screens and created a big mess here on guru like that guy made 2 days ago. delivered

Clait

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Braveheart World Xi [any]

W/A

11 Jan 2008 at 22:24 - 808

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

I've read every post up to this point, yes, all 50 pages....

Lets get some facts straight:

1. This was not a hack of the .DAT file.

2. This was not a client-side hack of any sort.

3. This used the exact same mechanics as the "map-anywhere" exploit that was widely known a few weeks ago.

4. This used the exact same mechanics as ferrying someone from guildhall to Urgoz/Deep (meaning that you had to have progressed through to Mallyx naturally at least once in order to use this exploit - same thing with Urgoz/Deep, you must visit that town once using a scroll or by owning the town entrance, before a ferry will work).

5. This by-passed certain pre-requisite quests, the same way the Duncan exploit did.

So the real questions here are:
Why does ANet have a double standard in dealing with this issue?
Why did it take ANet 3 tries to actually patch this problem?
Is the issue really fixed?

There are 2 ethical choices to deal with this issue:
1. Ban everyone who ever exploited items 3,4, and 5 posted above.
2. Reverse the bans of these 117 players, and take steps to reduce these types of exploits in the future.

Obviously, if there is evidence that someone actually hacked, then they should remain banned. But everything I have read in these 50 pages seems to indicate that no actual hacking took place.

I would really love it if someone at ANet could pop in here, or PM me, and explain why they have this double standard.

I agree completely with this.

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

11 Jan 2008 at 22:24 - 809

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Considering people have been reporting this for months, I dont think you could deliver on that.

and it didn't get fixed as far as i know until it was posted and made more public on here.

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

11 Jan 2008 at 22:24 - 810

/ AGREE with evilsea bass i couldnt agree anymore with my own words.

-Sonata-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Pretty Hate Machines [NIN]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:24 - 811

Quote:

... Apparently half of his guild and alliance got banned and they want to mess Guild Wars up. The guy said he has found a way to cause extreme server lag and make Guild Wars unplayable with minimal effort.

And we're supposed to believe that no sort of game manipulation happened in the first place? If certain "players", with "minimal effort", are now willing to make Guild Wars unplayable right now then I have every reason to believe they had the capabilities to do what Anet has stated they did with the Mallyx incident.

Threats like these don't help the case of those who are claiming innocence in this entire mess.

IamNotBanned

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

11 Jan 2008 at 22:25 - 812

Quote:

i would have took screen and created a big mess here on guru like that guy made 2 days ago. delivered

So you wold have caused some controversy? nice

rath no more

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:25 - 813

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Okay. Enough of the Duncan ferry and the pre-searing exploit.

ANET corrected those problems and said, in effect, don't do it again.

Some people didn't learn from that and now they are QQ'ing.

You didn't learn the lesson. You got caught. You got banned. End of story.

ive never farmed any dam thing illegally until this point right now so youf facts are obviousy a lil skewed.. as a matter of fact my rep has been sparklin clean for years..maybe you shouldnt assume so much eh?

Rexion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

[Luck]

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:25 - 814

so what happens when you get banned? do you get like a letter from ANet saying you have?

just always wondered why we had to enter our mailing address...

pablo24

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 22:26 - 815

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

And we're supposed to believe that no sort of game manipulation happened in the first place? If certain "players", with "minimal effort", are now willing to make Guild Wars unplayable right now then I have every reason to believe they had the capabilities to do what Anet has stated they did with the Mallyx incident.

Threats like these don't help the case of those who are claiming innocence in this entire mess.

What the guy told me doesn't involve anything against the EULA, no client editing, no packet editing, nothing of all that.

pochoWICKED

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

[GoA]

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:27 - 816

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

If everyone knew about it, there would be too many people involved and your chance of a ban would have lessened a lot. By keeping it in a small group, you GUARANTEED your ban.

Lol apparently there was 117 people doing it.
Everyone that i talked to was doing it.
I got sucked in like drugs.
Didn't know it would blow up like this.
I guess I Have to pay the price though.
=/

Creeping Carl

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 22:27 - 817

I love how people are trying to justify their actions just because ANET has been forgiving and leniant in the past. It's like being given a warning a few times for reckless driving. And then screaming at the cops for arresting you and sending you to prison for your third offense.

It was clear that ANET frowned upon shortcuts/ferrying when they closed the Duncan exploit. And yet people still did it with MallyX? Yep they deserve the ban.

Drop of Fear

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:28 - 818

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotBanned

So you wold have caused some controversy? nice

the only way to force a.net to close exploits soonish is to post here. without telling in any way ppl "do this do that and you're on track".
if u want to report a broken feature or a bug, u can either send a support ticket and wait few days for a reply from someone who 99% of the times doesnt understand how bad is the issue, or u can post on guru and make a.net programmers aware within hours.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

11 Jan 2008 at 22:29 - 819

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

so what happens when you get banned? do you get like a letter from ANet saying you have?

just always wondered why we had to enter our mailing address...

I assume they got the basic message when they logged in:

Error ###: Your account has been banned for the following reason: ___________.
This ban is permanent. If you wish to discuss the ban, please contact the Support service.

truzo 117

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

[ban]

P/W

11 Jan 2008 at 22:29 - 820

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

so what happens when you get banned? do you get like a letter from ANet saying you have?

just always wondered why we had to enter our mailing address...

Nope, you dont even get a warning, when you go to log in you get a error with a message "youve been banned permantly" code=045

IamNotBanned

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

11 Jan 2008 at 22:29 - 821

Lol people take things to heart especially when you lose a $160 investment

Orange Milk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Ganking, USA

Retired

R/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:30 - 822

Quote:

had just shown her a new exploit I had discovered which could get you to a hidden outpost called Ascalon Arena and had the same map as Ascalon City with portals disabled. When I told her how it was done she asked me to try the same thing with all the other ZoneIDs and send her a detailed exploit report, which I did do. 4 times. I

Again, I fail to believe a word you say. They have Devs/techs for this, they arent going to TELL a regular player to do everything they can to find exploits. No way in hell would they encourage that.

Also, if you know "more exploits" you should get the ban hammer too.

117 cheated, 117 banned.

The hardcore evidence being that if it were "just a ferry" as shit load more people would have know about it and it simply would have been nerfed. But hand full of folks running it day in and day out, yeah......

pablo24

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 22:32 - 823

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Again, I fail to believe a word you say. They have Devs/techs for this, they arent going to TELL a regular player to do everything they can to find exploits. No way in hell would they encourage that.

Also, if you know "more exploits" you should get the ban hammer too.

117 cheated, 117 banned.

The hardcore evidence being that if it were "just a ferry" as shit load more people would have know about it and it simply would have been nerfed. But hand full of folks running it day in and day out, yeah......

I don't take advantage of the exploits I find and I report them as soon as I find them. And yes, they asked me to check every ZoneID for a possible exploit, they didn't do it themselves.

leprekan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posers and Wannabes [nubs]

W/E

11 Jan 2008 at 22:33 - 824

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerulus

I love how people try to use the notion of a double standard to avoid punishment for something they have done wrong. The other person wasn't punished, so you should go free too? I've seen it stated several times in this thread that the people who were banned did it because they "thought" they wouldn't get in trouble even though it was obviously wrong. Unfortunatley for you anet doesn't have to show consistency with their punishments for exploitation of its game. Hopefully this will deter people from doing these things in the future, as just knowing it is wrong to do is obviously not enough. I wish they would ban more people as some of the shit that goes on in this game is ridiculous, but at least this is a good start.

Notion? It IS a double standard. Same EXACT type of ferry. Yet those that did it with Duncan were not banned.

It is MORE than reasonable for people to ASSUME they would not be banned given the Duncan ferry was NOT a bannable offense.

People can finger point and name call all they want. Doesn't change the bans nor does it change the fact they were unjust.

truzo 117

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

[ban]

P/W

11 Jan 2008 at 22:33 - 825

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Again, I fail to believe a word you say. They have Devs/techs for this, they arent going to TELL a regular player to do everything they can to find exploits. No way in hell would they encourage that.

Also, if you know "more exploits" you should get the ban hammer too.

117 cheated, 117 banned.

The hardcore evidence being that if it were "just a ferry" as shit load more people would have know about it and it simply would have been nerfed. But hand full of folks running it day in and day out, yeah......

118 cheated 117 got banned. the guy that first posted it did quite a few runs

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 22:36 - 826

Quote:

Originally Posted by rath no more

ive never farmed any dam thing illegally until this point right now so youf facts are obviousy a lil skewed.. as a matter of fact my rep has been sparklin clean for years..maybe you shouldnt assume so much eh?

The fact remains. Past reputation means nothing. If you violated the EULA than you are open to a ban.

I never accused you of past misconduct.

IamNotBanned

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

11 Jan 2008 at 22:36 - 827

Quote:

the only way to force a.net to close exploits soonish is to post here. without telling in any way ppl "do this do that and you're on track".
if u want to report a broken feature or a bug, u can either send a support ticket and wait few days for a reply from someone who 99% of the times doesnt understand how bad is the issue, or u can post on guru and make a.net programmers aware within hours.

um arena net doesnt own this site its private if thy want things fixed and reported they have their email

Tom Swift

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 22:37 - 828

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Again, I fail to believe a word you say. They have Devs/techs for this, they arent going to TELL a regular player to do everything they can to find exploits. No way in hell would they encourage that.

Also, if you know "more exploits" you should get the ban hammer too.

Many software companies, including the government and Microsoft, hire outside help to look for holes and exploits.

Drop of Fear

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:37 - 829

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotBanned

um arena net doesnt own this site its private if thy want things fixed and reported they have their email

should i care? posting here works faster to fix exploits, that's all that matters to me.
guru is doing a great service for the comunity, it works well, use it.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

11 Jan 2008 at 22:38 - 830

Except it's not really their mail is it? It's ncsoft

Clait

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Braveheart World Xi [any]

W/A

11 Jan 2008 at 22:38 - 831

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

If they had put so much time into GW, why would they be so stupid as to knowingly take part in an exploit that can warrant a ban? It's just plain stupidity, and which in that case they should go and play a game such as runescape.

Generosity or selfishness. Generous people view this as a chance to help their community further themselves, perhaps helping to buy their members some 15k armor. Isn't that supposed to be a role of guild officers and leaders? Selfish people just kept the information to themselves. They kept the money to themselves, it never even entered the economy. Its human nature to take opportunities. People just saw this as an escape from the grind. Grind for a day or grind for a week. If your just grinding, people want to be done with it as fast as possible. So when an opportunity like this arrises, few pass it up.

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

11 Jan 2008 at 22:39 - 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

I've read every post up to this point, yes, all 50 pages....

Lets get some facts straight:

1. This was not a hack of the .DAT file.

this statement seems to be correct

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

2. This was not a client-side hack of any sort.

the client sending a special zone-id might be done by client side manipulation aka hack (or a freak accident)

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

3. This used the exact same mechanics as the "map-anywhere" exploit that was widely known a few weeks ago.

as the map-anywhere bug was only a recent occurrence, but the exploit apparently being open for many months, it's not likely to be exactly the same

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

4. This used the exact same mechanics as ferrying someone from guildhall to Urgoz/Deep (meaning that you had to have progressed through to Mallyx naturally at least once in order to use this exploit - same thing with Urgoz/Deep, you must visit that town once using a scroll or by owning the town entrance, before a ferry will work).

similar, but not the same.. both legit and ferried players have to beat the whole mission

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

5. This by-passed certain pre-requisite quests, the same way the Duncan exploit did.

i have to agree with this, though the exploiting was done with purely ingame mechanics, no "lucky" spawns with certain zone-ids to get into previously unknown outposts

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

So the real questions here are:
Why does ANet have a double standard in dealing with this issue?

the exploiters kept it a secret for many months for personal gain, while the other exploits were publically known

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

Why did it take ANet 3 tries to actually patch this problem?
Is the issue really fixed?

the first 2fixes were for the map-anywhere bug (looks like some wintersday patch opened the hole again and thus same fix was needed a 2nd time)
3rd fix was for the mallyx-exploit
..is it fixed? according to pabo24 it is, but other ways to get to this outpost are still open

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilseabass

There are 2 ethical choices to deal with this issue:
1. Ban everyone who ever exploited items 3,4, and 5 posted above.
2. Reverse the bans of these 117 players, and take steps to reduce these types of exploits in the future.

Obviously, if there is evidence that someone actually hacked, then they should remain banned. But everything I have read in these 50 pages seems to indicate that no actual hacking took place.

I would really love it if someone at ANet could pop in here, or PM me, and explain why they have this double standard.

truzo117 told us a nice story, but pablo24 says this story not plausible (and truzo117 also said that pablo24 is usually right..)
ok, it might be a freak accident that somebody got into this outpost first, but then again we should see many more freak accidents like post-searing people spawning in pre.. a little too convenient for my taste

People called the poster who revealed the exploit to the public a "snitch" and "whistle-blower". Not really something they would, if they think it's fully legit.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

11 Jan 2008 at 22:39 - 833

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Notion? It IS a double standard. Same EXACT type of ferry. Yet those that did it with Duncan were not banned.

It is MORE than reasonable for people to ASSUME they would not be banned given the Duncan ferry was NOT a bannable offense.

People can finger point and name call all they want. Doesn't change the bans nor does it change the fact they were unjust.

Why the hell would you assume you wouldn't get banned for abusing an exploit in a very limited group? If the amount exceeded a few thousand, odds are you wouldn't have been banned. 117 shows that it was a small group that deliberately kept it quiet for personal gain. NEITHER of you probably reported it too. Also, the wording for the Duncan quest is significantly different compared to that of Mallyx, which formed a grey area.
The 2 situations are completely uncomparable.

Tom Swift

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 22:39 - 834

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Except it's not really their mail is it? It's ncsoft

and goes through about 5 levels of NCsoft before anyone at ANet even sees it.

truzo 117

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

[ban]

P/W

11 Jan 2008 at 22:44 - 835

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

this statement seems to be correct

the client sending a special zone-id might be done by client side manipulation aka hack (or a freak accident)

as the map-anywhere bug was only a recent occurrence, but the exploit apparently being open for many months, it's not likely to be exactly the same

similar, but not the same.. both legit and ferried players have to beat the whole mission

i have to agree with this, though the exploiting was done with purely ingame mechanics, no "lucky" spawns with certain zone-ids to get into previously unknown outposts

the exploiters kept it a secret for many months for personal gain, while the other exploits were publically known

the first 2fixes were for the map-anywhere bug (looks like some wintersday patch opened the hole again and thus same fix was needed a 2nd time)
3rd fix was for the mallyx-exploit
..is it fixed? according to pabo24 it is, but other ways to get to this outpost are still open

truzo117 told us a nice story, but pablo24 says this story not plausible (and truzo117 also said that pablo24 is usually right..)
ok, it might be a freak accident that somebody got into this outpost first, but then again we should see many more freak accidents like post-searing people spawning in pre.. a little too convenient for my taste

Thats exactly right, its a accident how it was found, the problem is Anet should have made outposts like this more secure so it was never found in the first place

-Sonata-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Pretty Hate Machines [NIN]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 22:46 - 836

Quote:

Originally Posted by pablo24

What the guy told me doesn't involve anything against the EULA, no client editing, no packet editing, nothing of all that.

7. OFFICIAL SERVICE

The Game(s) is designed for official play only as offered through the Service by NC Interactive at the Web Site and not through any other means. You further agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which Game(s) may be played by others, as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the Game(s), except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not sell or auction any Game(s) accounts, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material, nor may you assist others in doing so.

Come again?

My statement holds. If certain "Players" who are willing to take steps with "Minimal effort" to make Guild Wars unplayable, what is there to make me believe players didn't have the means to do what Anet has said they did to begin with? If there are players willing to go this far, by making the game unplayable, then there is nothing to convince me that players out there were/had been willing to manipulate the client.

Jake_Steel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Portland, OR

The Older Gamers (TOG)

N/Me

11 Jan 2008 at 22:48 - 837

Quote:

Originally Posted by truzo 117

Thats exactly right, its a accident how it was found, the problem is Anet should have made outposts like this more secure so it was never found in the first place

A breach of security does not alleviate the wrong doing of the exploiter. END OF STORY. A mistake on Anet's part DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO EXPLOIT IT! The Eula specifically says so. However, I still don't believe this "it wasn't ANY kind of hack" nonsense.

SolidShadow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

holland

Mo/Me

11 Jan 2008 at 22:48 - 838

thats how customer support works, at the end of the month they just see how many tickets they get and send a report to the supervisor.

at the end of the line, the player takes the blaim cause who cares there making millions.

and when your trying to prove your innocence you even get flamed at you.
kinda hard to behave then.

pablo24

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 22:49 - 839

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

ok, it might be a freak accident that somebody got into this outpost first, but then again we should see many more freak accidents like post-searing people spawning in pre.. a little too convenient for my taste

Not possible, since the Great Temple of Balthazar glitch there is a VERY strong code that:
-locks any outpost AND explorable areas as soon as you arrive in the Pvp Match before the searing.
-locks any PvP based content until you arrive at the main cities with boats to the PvP Isles.

Clait

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Braveheart World Xi [any]

W/A

11 Jan 2008 at 22:49 - 840

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

If everyone knew about it, there would be too many people involved and your chance of a ban would have lessened a lot. By keeping it in a small group, you GUARANTEED your ban.

Releasing the information would turn armbraces into dead swords. I"m sure many people would hate that. At the same token, many would love it as well. Nothing like cheap torment weapons eh?

The second point is the people that actually sold armbraces, kept those prices low. Now that these individuals have been banned, there is less supply in the market. The demand for armbraces remains high. You can expect the price of armbraces to only go up.