[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008

At first you said a few times, and then you changed your story. Then it changed to that you have been there a total of 24 times and that you killed the boss 7 out of the 24 times you went there.

Guess what Anet sets the terms not you.
Allow me to break it down to the basics. A Hidden Outpost in which players should not be another words it is a restricted outpost. You repeatedly went to this restricted area and began to exploit it.

Everyone but the 117 people knows the reason for the ban.

If you did not hack the client, then clearly you do not fall in this category of why you where banned.
If you did not ferry people to the restricted outpost, then clearly you do not fall in this category of why you where banned
If you visited the restricted outpost repeatedly, then clearly you abuse an exploit. And this is why you where banned

Even if you can prove that you got there by a bug/glitch you still will be banned because you exploited it. What make this so different then others, one major one is they didn’t last for six months due to 117 people who did not report it and kept it secret.

Duh....I said that each run, you go to the outpost 3 times, so 7 times = 21 times, not including screw up where the ferrier goes to the wrong place, or we go to the wrong place with him. My story changed because I recounted the amount of times I had been there, it was originally 6, that I sent to Support, but I forgot one of the green items I had gotten. I said 4 because I hadn't counted, and I had no idea that the cutoff was 4, because I posted before Gaile.

it costs salaries X employees involved in reading logs x hours, that can very quickly add up to more than the cost of all 3 games.

if that's the case Arwen, then just be patient. Keep sending tickets to support, and you will get it back.

You twisting words is not going to help your case with ANET nor will it get you much support here. I am sure they did research before banning like Gaile said. Now it's the WEEKEND, and therefore nobody is currently researching anything. Wait until Monday, and I'm sure they will continue doing their work.

* THEY didn't start this thread.
* They DO have records and chat logs
* If you left and didn't kill Mallyx, didn't get any rewards and went in there only once, then just be patient. I don't know how many people they have checking logs, give them time.

Maybe it's the fact that you went in 7 times and I think 4 is what ANET decided to be the cut off.

Can you imagine how many PM's, emails Gaile has received? It's the weekend, it's a lot of you guys, give them time.

If by gtfo you mean an automated response, they explained thats how they do it. It doesn't mean they aren't investigating, it means nobody is personally replying to you.



I suspect ANET's initial research was maybe only to see who had been in the outpost X number of times, maybe. After they had the names, they did a mass ban, hence all of you getting same error at the same time. By doing it like this, they avoid you transfering, giving away, selling the profits. Then they can investigate with much more detail chat logs/ actions as people put in their support tickets.

Now it's the weekend, and Gaile said nobody is looking into anything. Like most offices, they close on Friday's I guess.

I realize the urgency some of you feel, but don't shoot your chances of getting help by insulting ANET and Gaile.

For those of you that honestly went in there just a couple of times, keep nagging support, don't flip with the automated responses, keep nagging and after the logs are reviewed I am sure you will get your accounts back. Be patient.

For those of you who went in there once with this character and 20 with the other, who did 600+ runs, went to test but kept the gems while testing it multiple times, or simply went in there several times.... I don't buy you didn't know, you just assumed you would get away with it and maybe get a slap on the hand. Whether you hacked or exploited multiple times, I still feel no sympathy, you cheated.

i feel sorry for anyone who has been banned for visiting the town once. my deepest condolences and i hope u get ur account back.

however, for anybody who has been banned for farming the mallyx more than once, u do not deserve any sympathy. u knew wut u were getting into after the first time, and u deserve the ban. if u did not know visiting a outpost that you shouldnt (which is kinda obvious if it doesnt have any npc's considering every other town does) then u should not interact with other people online. its why schools keep a seperate class for the "special" kids.

dare i say as far as i know this has not been on going for months....
to my knowledge this has only just been exploited (hence why i saw a guy recruiting doa farmers only a few week ago and not the whole time i was there)
to my knowledge it has been going on for 5 weeks, one guy used the GH glitch to go to the bugged area. to all the people who have taken advantage of the glitch you do deserved to be punished but life time ban does seem too harsh.if this has been going on for months and you have been farming for months then maybe lifetime ban is best. to all the people flaming the 117, yes ok, enough with the flames, they deserve punishing not torturing. let ANET fix whatever they can. your opinion is but a fart in the wind. let the real guys solve this. they made this mess possible, lets see how they clean it up

Mickey,

While I do believe Anets version of what has happened, I for one wouldn't tell people not to make appeals. You have that right to do so, but you have to remember a few things and not forget them.

There is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.

If your side of the story is absolute truth, no misinformation, no white lies, everything is as accurate as time itself, then its in your best interest not to skew, or spin words and phrases of those who hold the keys to your cell. Please keep in mind that when players in your position do that, such as saying Anet has called everyone hackers, it gives reason to believe that you're also capable of spinning your own story.

The second thing is, as with any banning subject, while it's been stated you're free to post here, going through Support is the only means of dealing with this matter. I know you've gotten automated responses already, but it's been also stated that the automated response is given to everyone before the actually support ticket is read by human eyes. I know it's hard to be patient, but I'm sure if an actual Support personell was here they would ask you for the patience. You may very well recieve a human reply. Sending in multiple tickets will only add more time and more work on their side of things, which will make it a longer and more painful wait. It could also lead to you never getting a human reply if they feel the constant submission of tickets is being done in spite.

Only they can lift your ban and if they feel your situation is worth having that ban lifted, it will be done. Players have had their accounts reinstated before. However, you must also understand that you may not have it lifted. Whether you agree, or not, there IS personal accountability here and I know you do understand that.

I've said it before and I do believe it's worth saying again. I don't have any doubts some players who have been banned were caught in the crossfire. Rare, yes. Impossible? No. If you are one of those truly caught in the middle of this I do hope you can play again in the near future. But it's best that you don't do anything more than what is necessary to get a final resolution to your matter; No matter which way it finalizes itself.

If you were banned you have no way to prove your innocence here, so honestly it makes no sense to try to argue semantics of what Gaile has said. ANet has logs of every thing everyone ever says or does, but it takes time to sort through all those terabytes of data and make sense of them. ANet is not going to waste its time doing that that for very insignificant instances, so I am sure they set some pretty conservative thresholds for their screening. This resulted in only 117 people out of hundreds of thousands being banned.

I can recall when Diablo 2 had bans for people hacking and duping, and typically this would be for tens of thousands of accounts.

Now instead of trying to split hairs with ANet, why not try to come up with another alternative for them? People screwed up. Instead of banning their accounts (which is akin to banning CD keys for other games), how about wiping their accounts of all the ill-gotten gains and letting them restart? That would still be a large punishment and keep the items from flooding the economy, but it would still allow people to play on their accounts.

Anyway, every online game has this sort of punishment for when people screw up, and honestly I am sure a lot of people are getting off easy if only 117 are being banned. I would say this is more like a warning to folks than anything else, with the most significant violators being punished, regardless of what they claim in this thread.

If you truly were mistakenly banned, then I suggest you follow the proper procedures as I know folks have received reprieves for things in the past, even after getting automatic messages stating otherwise.

can anyone send me any quote which shows this exploit has been going on for longer than 5 weeks?
i think the 117 are ALL the players who have entered the affected over all time, we have all been banned so they can inspect what has go on possibly.

I didn't mean automated response, I meant literally gtfo.

Your protests or w/e will not be looked at any longer, is basically what they told me. Hell, I know for a fact that if they looked at the chat logs, I was told by my friend that this was neither an exploit or a hack. I know you guys are like "ignorance has no worth," but meh, w/e, I had no idea, and you can argue against it all you want, and make fun of me, insult me, but hey, that's all you can do, unless you can superpowered IP punch me.

I've done everything everyone has told me to do. It's just not working. They told me I was aware that I was farming Mallyx....duh...of course I was aware of that. They told me, your appeals for your account unbanage or w/e will not be looked at or tolerated. They told me my account will not be re-opened. They told me to go away, and never come back, WHILE THEY NEVER LOOKED AT WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT.

It was my first time through DoA, and I hadn't farmed it extensively before, so if they just looked at how many times my account opened the Mallyx Chest, they could easily see if I was lying or not.

It has been mentioned already this has been going on for 5-6 months. The fact that YOU found out 5 weeks ago does not make it the time it was first hacked and exploited. You are trying to defend your friends, which I can understand, but unfortunately there is very little sympathy being dished out here. Most of the GW community has little sympathy for people that have cheated.

My opinion may be a fart to you, I don't really care what you think.

The real guys are solving this.... they didn't make this mess possible, players abusing an exploit made the mess, and it seems to me they did a thorough cleaning. If they dragged truly innocent players, then I'm sure when they rinse the mop those innocents will be found.

Good Night.

Exactly, Sonata. This is exactly the problem I have with the banned 117's side. They seem more interested in twisting statements or making up excuses to fit their own definition rather than showing how they were innocent of the charges. I guess it's because they really are guilty of the charges.

I myself have been falsely banned by ANET twice before for botting and submitted tickets to get my account back. I made sure to include some facts for them to look at to prove that I wasnt botting.

I suggest that if people really are innocent then they should point out some facts that show that they really are innocent. Stop wasting time and screwing your own chances of getting re-instated with twisting words, placing blame on others or anything else that distracts from evidence that proves your innocence.

i meant quote someone proving this has been going on for 5 months not quote me silly. and also ive got the jist of all this now.ANET arent in the wrong for the area being accessable, thats obvious and dont take my comment about farts blabla too serious. it was the best way i could explain.no offence
omg i just seen...you still think someone hacked....lol
yeah goodnight

see you tomorrow maybe

Hope this is enough

if not you can read the whole thread Right here

Good I see you are reading it Good night for good this time.

I would tell you the same thing with the way you seem to be carrying on about it.

I skimmed a couple of pages out of 100 and you seem to be the most notable poster in this thread.

I even read you talking about e-mailing Gaile 6 times and getting upset that she hadn't responded yet.

Say she DOES respond.. you're just going to e-mail her 12 more times telling her why she's wrong and how much she sucks for not bowing to your obvious innocence.

uhmm im fairly sure that neither the guilty nor the innocent foreseen the consequences, as i stated earlier they where mislead after a few weeks of waiting for a response to the reports...well that was my friends anyway. about the others who have been doing this for months they have no excuse

Want to lower yourself down from your throne so I can smack some sense into you for a bit?

She emailed me back, maybe 3 days ago, with wrong facts. I could see right off the bat her information was flawed. I've already said, each run contains 3 visits, possibly more because of errors, to the outpost, and that is what Anet is going by. They believe: 1 visit = 1 run. The reality: 3 visits = 1 run. Most notable? You obviously didn't skim or look nearly long enough. I've posted, what, maybe 19 times compared to the plethora of other people out of the 117.

My innocence is not obvious, but it can be proven, and I am out to prove it.

Hey guys...

Yea its maybe unfair to you that did it "only" few times but think of it this way...

If u know u are doing a bad thing... even once its still a bad thing... if i kill 1 man its ok... and 10 isnt ok... 1000 is a statistic... right... wrong once is too much...

BUT,

My main concern is not with 117 account that killed mallyx repeatedly... they made a profit... right... some... ok... whatever... but u see a pattern here...

U are banned for in this case minor thing...because they can see u all in one place, 1 outpost no1 should be in, its easy all who set foot inside are banned... they see your name 5 times u are banned, while ppl who duplicated 10,000 ectos and ambraces are still in the game...

Thats hipocracy...

Hurts economy... right... until anet had a system of detecting bots... 55s weren't hurting economy?... what economy... when stormbows were 2.5 mil that wasn't an economy... and it sure isn't now... 1750e for something... 5000e for something... that cries out "look at my account log and ban me plz" if there were any logs... and if there are some kind of logs there is no1 who reads them... or understands them...

My 5 cents is that as we saw from past events, server rollbacks, mass bans, etc... Anet really has no clue whats going on on their servers... They are developing server side technology as they go along... why there wasnt a rollback after the first trader crash... few years back... right... it couldnt be done then... after we got 5000 vials of black each that was in the game then they started thinking about server rollbacks... and exploits... in the game since very beggining... all sorts of... did any1 think about it then, no.... was any1 banned then, no... were items deleted, no...

DoS attacks... Server resets... map glitches... all around for ages... no1 gave a dogs s*it until recently... why... because u couldnt do anything with it... get 1 more cryst ok, get 1 more stormbow... ok... now u have titles, mini pets, rare mini pets... things ppl really want and it makes anet want to protect their game, preserve exclusivity... right... the game was fine in the first place until they ruined it and made it grindfest, and now they are banning u after giving all the original "hackers" and "exploiters" a clean bill of health... right...

LET US HAVE SOME STATS LIKE WOW DOES /// MATERIALS DROPPED /// CREEPS KILLED /// MISSIONS DONE /// MONEY TRADED /// u cant...wont... or dont have the guts to do it...

i think if u did we would all see thing that are happening every day and that your economy makes no sense... and that complete gw system is flawed...

thats just wrong...
removing 55 farm places, wrong [ban bots or remove ps]
reducing drop rates, wrong [same as above]
allowing known exploiters to go unpunished, very very wrong... [try actually looking at some logs u claim to keep and spend few weeks sorting out ecto and gold routes across the servers, find duplicate accounts and mules]
saying u care about economy, lol dont make me laugh... for thinking u have an economy...
U dont know to make a trade system that works... ok u made fake prices at traders... np, problem solved, well call it economy lol economy...
...

ALL U DID IS MAKE GW NOT A FUN GAME TO PLAY THAT REWARDS CHEATERS AND BOTS...

Its a crappy game system of a "once a great game"... get over it... start again or move to the next game...


just ask yourself for what are u wasteing your time and nerves... a bunch of pixels... animated sometimes

OK, enough...
had to get it out...

plz dont quote me on inaccuracies in the post or hair splitting, word twisting stuff i could go on about the game system for ages... and u all know im right.

and we all know no1 from anet will read this coz they know all about it... and just choose to ignore it... like they said in an interview somewhere its easyer for them to make a new game than fix this one... and afcourse being less idealistic and entusiastic this time it will be more pve minded, wow cloned and money making that this one...

i would really like if they asked real ppl that play this game from the start if there is something they need to fix or put in... this way only ppl really pre-testing the game are ppl that dont actually play it 5 hours a day...

thx. whoa...
well i retract one of my previous statments saying i knew who started it
also: LMAO at the above statement nice

Your point is 100% valid. However, apparently, Anet does not care about the original dupers, as I remember reading, which is absolutely ridiculous. The dupers made 500x the amount of money that any of the people who used this exploit made, and they don't care about them? The Mini Polar Bear sell thread is just an example of filthy rich people that got it by cheating, and people in this thread tell us to play the game fairly? Wow, just wow. Unless you made 1250 armbraces by regularly farming DoA......which is impossible, tbh, your a duper, or an exploiter, and even the hardest farming exploiters only got to like, 150 armbraces. So, you tell me how someone could get to 1250 armbraces without duping, and you can have my banned account, just kidding.

This thread had informative posts on page one.

Why would I want to look through 89 more (as of this post) of people who are trying to explain something they knew was fishy and not a natural part of the game?

Umm what?

All I was saying that if people were innocent then send in a report with specifics instead of wasting time and effort with such crap as arguing semantics or twisting ANET's words. If the accused only went to MallyX once and never went back and was truly innocent, then point that out. Tell them in the report to check again the number of times you used this MallyX shortcut.

Why would you need to have forewarning to point out evidence of innocence? Generally, if you're innocent you dont need forewarning. Only the guilty need preparation to cover up their acts.

So you could really understand what happened? The lies Anet told us. Unless they are truths, no one can know for sure. I would trust Gaile, but I have already recieved false information from her, so who knows, maybe she is right.

Mickey,

I did not give you numbers. I would not give you numbers. I kindly responded in a general sense to your (inappropriately directed) protests. I'm afraid you have misinterpreted my comments. Please direct your further comments to Support.

Thank you Gaile. But you told me I farmed many more times than 7, which was incorrect. I have been, and I hope I get my responses soon.

Edit: I guess I will have to wait until the extensive checks move into the actual farm.

I've posted on this thread enough, time to move on. And to those who will say "thank god, gtfo, no one will miss you." Thanks, there is a special place in my heart for you.

I pulled up your message, Gaile.

"Sorry, no. Our records show many, many more accesses to the outpost than the six that you confessed. I can find out when you accessed, and whether it was before or after you were told it was an exploit, but honestly, I'm looking at the database, and what you're writing and what I am seeing do not match.

I'm very sorry, I truly am.

Gaile"

Accesses don't count as farms, is what I am trying to get through. I just hope Support realizes that.

What makes you think we're setting the bar on "farming" only? Whatever gains access to a hidden, unmapped, unpopulated outpost is an exploit. If someone accesses the outpost through an exploit, if someone tries and fails to exploit Mallyx a dozen times, that person is still using an exploit to get to him in the first place.

I'm sorry, but saying "it's only 7 times, I'm innocent" is just wrong.

So the bar is set on accessed times, not on times farmed? So anyone who did even a few runs (4) will have it shown up as 12, and thus inelligible for unbanned?

In which case, 98% of the 117 have absolutely no chance at gaining their accounts back. Even some of the people who tested the exploit, and deleted their items/gave them away (which is probably bad because it effected the community) will have no chance, according to this statement. I think the "bar" needs to be laid out, unless it's not 100% set yet, according to special issues.

gg you just compared a game to rl .... lol

as for the incident anet did the right thing by banning people that actually hacked but they should read through the reports by the people that got taken there not knowing what was going on and try and give them a fair call

I am not talking to you about numbers. I am simply pointing out -- and I edited my post for clarity -- that accessing the outpost is an exploit, not just farming the boss. How those things numerically stack up in the overall view of an account is up to Support.

Ok, I understand. I was under the impression that the ban was placed on A. Profit B. Amount of Times Farmed C. Just ban in general, for anyone who accessed the outpost, with the script.

I wish I could understand how Support judges if an account remains banned or not. That would help me understand so much.

Apparently, my ignorance is not going to help, even if it is genuine.

Tbh, re-reading Support comments, it seems as though they are judging on how many times the farm is used. As of now, I am under the impression that that is successful farms = profit. What I am trying to say, is that Gaile, you gave me the impression that times farmed = times accessed outpost. I know your not Support though, so I guess I will just have to take it out with them.

you mean you have no means to prove who went on to fight mallyx from the bugged area?

i hope so as i was in there a few times but only entered battle once...and left shortly after

Perhaps. You are right we are guilty.

Many however, still believe this was harmless. No different then indulging in Duncan runs. That was dubbed an exploit after the fact. The exploit was closed, and to my knowledge nobody was banned. The Mallyx farm had the same mechanics as the Duncan run. Namely.. a repeatable quest, and farming of the final boss. The only difference between how that situation was treated and the current one.. is the number of people involved. I can not see Anet banning anybody over doing Duncans.. if thousands were involved. On the same token.. only a few hundred knew about Mallyx. Same offense, different penalty. Impartial.. yes. If it wasn't.. then please explain why not.

I understand that this whole situation involves setting a precedent. I also understand that Anet needs to be very careful how it is set, or the legalistic-minded individuals will find loopsholes in it. I also understand, why the exploit line remains fuzzy.. again so certain individuals do not "push the envolope." However having no line at all is a different matter. If no idea of a non-return point is set, how are individuals to know they have crossed it?

A precedent has already been set in this current case. Namely, Anet is apt to ban anyone involved whether they stumble upon an exploit or not. Whether that kind of practice continues or not, should be set with this situation. I am not commending the actions done by those involved in the Mallyx farm. I am no less guilty of entering that town then anyone else. It is my hope, that you and the support team are actually looking into all cases.

My faith in both your management and the game itself is shaken. Understandably, this is something that will take time to recover from both as individuals and as a community.. whether or not a the ban remains as is or is lifted. I also understand if no further consideration is needed. After all, any person involved did use an exploit.. whether they knew so or not.. or whether they actively participated or were dragged into.

Thanks for at least taking the time to read this response. I await the final ruling.

Clait

You know, some of the people who farmed Mallyx (I'm just going to throw this out there, but hey, me) were ferried there, thinking that this was neither an exploit or a hack. I know, you can ask all you want "how COULD YOU POSSIBLY not know it was not an exploit or a hack?" I've been told stories of guilds getting full armbraces in 5 hours, I had never been told how or why. I just did the math, 20 mins per run (includes ferrying ect) 15 times is guess what....5 hours of work.

Ignorance is obviously not taken into account her, so I guess I got the back end of the stick, figuratively.

Yes you can end it there. Thank you for Confessing, nuff said Ok thanks for playing bye bye.

Confession
noun:
1. acknowledgment; avowal; admission: a confession of incompetence.
2. acknowledgment or disclosure of sin or sinfulness, esp. to a priest to obtain absolution.
3. something that is confessed.
4. a formal, usually written, acknowledgment of guilt by a person accused of a crime.

Can we close or end the discussion now?

You're right, we're all asking how anyone could not know it was an exploit, especially since you have to have prior experience and have had to completed the areas prior to MallyX in order to use this exploit.

Ignorance isnt a defense because anyone can just use it as a defense for anything. Sure, sometimes it's taken into consideration. And in this instance, looking at requirements needed to use the ferry and this exploit, I can't see how anyone can claim ignorance and I'm betting ANET can't either.

Unfortunately for you, your not the judge in this decision. Anet has judgment over accounts involved, not you. Second, Inde has the thread open for a reason.. also not your call.

Forgot to mention, I only read your first sentence as well. ^^

Ursan. Ursan > Anything with heroes and consumables? Never been to DoA before, slap Ursan on your bar, grab a friend, load up 2 nuker heroes, a paragon, and a few healers and go. No brain work, nothing, just 121212...I didn't even wiki or guru 3/4 of DoA before doing it with Ursan, I only needed to look at that quest in Gloom where like, 12 mobs come upon you in succession, didn't know how to do that one.

Oh hey, I pugged Foundry with Ursan, and we had a nifty little guy that had done it a ton of times before, that told us everything to do, so there was no problem there. I got to Mallyx expecting anything, and guess what came along.

You need reading lessons. I said I WASNT flaming anyone. So big whoop, I wasnt going to take crap from her after she accused me of being self righteous, a liar and everything else.

EDIT: Even Anya took her statement back. No hard feelings Anya.


Sorry, but what does any of that have to do with the claim of ignorance regarding the MallyX exploit?

DUDE!

I'm probably the most anti-flame person here but you are preaching to a deaf choir while beating a dead horse.

You accessed the exploit 4 times according to you. Thats 4 more times than you should have in the first place. For someone who has played the game as much as you say you have should have realized the first time that:

"Hey, I'm in an outpost that I've never seen before, accessed through a campaign that isn't even the same as where I end up. I wonder why there aren't any people here? I wonder why no one else is doing this and why wiki doesn't mention it? Ohh wow, it allows me to skip the entire DoA and kill the end boss, this is weird, I wonder if it is legal? I wonder if I should come back here 3 more times? Hmm, it sure is weird that everyone is telling me not to tell anyone about this place. I think I'll continue to come back and not report this to the ANet devs..."

No one is that naive. You knew good and well what you were doing. If you ask me personally, I think the only people that should even be CONSIDERED for an un-ban are the people who accessed it ONCE and then sent a trouble ticket to support saying "Hey WTF is with this, you should check it out Mr. Fix-it". Then maybe, just maybe, the ONE or TWO people who actually did that should be considered. Not the people who went in 2, 3, 4,..178 times.


Shell out 40 bucks for a new campaign and start over. It will give you something to do for the year leading up to GW2 and the beta.

You obviously have the wrong person, why, because I have said at least 15 times in this thread alone that I killed Mallyx 7 times...not 4.....7. Judging by that, I can see that you have not read through the thread yet. Enjoy.

And where do you get the part where you say "judging by how much you said you have played." I have never said anything about that, at all....get your facts straight before you start a flame war.

I'm not even sure I will be getting GW 2 now.

/waits for the "good, glad that I won't see you there"

[QUOTE=GloryFox]Yes you can end it there. Thank you for Confessing, nuff said Ok thanks for playing bye bye.

yeah they are guilty...shame . but lets not forget all the people who farm duncan etc....i wonder how many of you guys who are putting the guilty down and kicking them in the face after they just got booted, you guys who trying to push along their lifetime bans.. i just wonder how many of you are guilty of other exploits ie duncan as just stated....
no one is perfect.
imho hack=perma ban
mass farm of mallyx which result in armbraces=perma ban
1-10 attempts with exploit= severe ban

perma does seem harsh.
6 months to fix a bug.....
insti-ban with very little help from support....
meh whats done is done, you guys smacked the azz. now ride the waves

dont let carl bother you. i dont see how anyone can get so much excitement out of other peoples dismay, sick in a sense. creeping carl you are strange