Are all the proffessions equal in pve pugs? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

AnnaCloud9

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Minnesota

Well if you're bored, then you're boring!

R/

04 Feb 2008 at 05:31 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

if anything ursan opens up the game to more professions.

Sorry, but the last I checked, once you click that mind numbing Ursan blessing, you're no longer your profession. To say this opened the door for other professions is rediculous. How is having Soul Reaping as a necromancer using Ursan blessing allowing that player to actually play as a necromancer?
Ursan has effectively reduced all classes to one very simple factor:

Your energy

I mean, when an Ursan for President player steps into the game, decidedly bent on doing more Ursan trips, what goes on in that person's mind when they scroll through their characters? Gee, should I take my Ursan Ele since she has the most energy and looks cuter than my Mesmer? Or should I take my Ursan warrior so I can show off my shiny new set of chaos gloves and dwarven knickers?

Your skills, the way you manage them, the way your group synchronizes and synergizes, and the overall attitude of the group has been reduced to this: Your rank in Norn? I am grateful for heros in this regard, and am glad Guild Wars remains fun for the masses that choose to either Ursan (I mean PUG), or choose not too. To each her or his own.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

04 Feb 2008 at 05:43 - 42

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck.

any other profession should be able to get into a guild group that hopefully isnt running ursan.

Two April Mornings

No Luck No Time No Money

Join Date: Nov 2005

Amherst College, MA

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Me/

04 Feb 2008 at 05:46 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck.

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

04 Feb 2008 at 05:47 - 44

By all means use Ursan if you enjoy being in an Ursan team. And roll up a bonder, SS necro, obsi tank, frozen soil ranger, nuker, whatever, if you enjoy playing in those typecast PuGs in those so-called Elite areas.

Or, alternatively, find a friend, just one. Bring 6 heroes, and do those same areas the way you like to play.

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

04 Feb 2008 at 05:50 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck...

So sad. Desperate mesmers play as fast cast nukers to get into groups.

But thats the same as using Ursan, I feel. I did not roll up a caster so I can run to mobs and slash them with my nails.

I guess with the right build, mesmers can replace an SS necro, just not quite as devastating.

They have pretty lingerie.

AnnaCloud9

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Minnesota

Well if you're bored, then you're boring!

R/

04 Feb 2008 at 05:51 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

I couldn't have put that better myself

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

04 Feb 2008 at 05:59 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

Ignorance. This thread and the majority of the PVE community that follow the trifecta/Ursan/Three-necro = ignorance. A mesmer can tear through PVE (arguably not as easily as a paragon) and has some advantages over mobs with many healers that other professions don't have. Mesmers do not suck.

I agree with you that mesmers aren't complete crap, but they're certainly one of the weaker classes. With PvE skills, there's a sort of new class that's been created that all the caster classes (rit, ele, mesmer, necro, to a lesser extent monk) can play. Mesmers happen to be an especially strong choice for this. However, the defining abilities of mesmers - shutdown, degen, reactive damage - tend to be less useful in PvE than raw damage.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 06:00 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the only profession that is left out for good reason are mesmers. they suck.

Mesmers have inferior AoE damage compared to the other professions, and thus the community deems them useless. The more numbers you can make appear at once the better your class is.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

04 Feb 2008 at 06:23 - 49

The main problem is Mesmers require actual intelligence to be on the receiving end for them to be the most effective. If you can't psych out your opponent, you're very limited on what you can do with a Mesmer. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mesmer, being my 2nd most played class, but they just aren't as effective as all the other classes in 99% of PvE.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 06:35 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Mesmers are really not all that bad. The domination line is very useful for taking out targets that matter. They just don't see play because players value AoE more than anything.

- Also Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain equals 260 damage to every monster in the area every 15 seconds with zero time spent on grinding. If you do grind, you could take elite like Mantra of Recovery to increase DPS. PvE skills have made Mesmer quite viable PvE profession, luckily for those who chose to play Mesmer in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Anyone else find it funny that the "noob group" is now defined as one where people actually play as their own professions, with some modicum of skill required to get through the area?

- Noob group is the group of players with attitude.
"I play what I want!"
"I don't need to ping my build!"
"I don't want any scrubby UB!"
"My Rit equals five Warriors!"
"I didn't manage to slip into Ursan group without Ursan. I'm pissed so nerf UB!"

@AnnaCloud9:
I don't really understand what you're trying to say. Previously areas that demanded very specialized builds are now open to every profession and player with PvE skills. Thus UB among others have made the game more open. You might see UB as gimmick, but every other build on those areas is gimmicky too. That's because everyday skills just can't answer over-the-roof stats of monsters. The "challenge" of those elite areas is to find the combination(s) that work.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Feb 2008 at 06:55 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I never see Rt/R with Broad Head Arrow, one of the best skills to use in PvE. I don't need to have a lot of damage when one skill completely shuts down a priority target.

BHA is useful for the very occasional monk or Sandstorm boss in hard mode. Over the entire game there aren't more than half a dozen of them. In every other case you want to let the mobs activate most of their skills so they take damage from Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor.

AnnaCloud9

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Minnesota

Well if you're bored, then you're boring!

R/

04 Feb 2008 at 06:57 - 52

Hi aapo

What I'm trying to say is once you activate your Ursan, it doesn't matter which profession you are. What matters is your Norn rank, and the amount of inherant energy your class comes with. To say it opens the door for other classes doesn't make sense, as they aren't being played as their class.

If I were to have all 10 of my characters (one of each profession + a secondary warrior) outfitted with rank 9 Norn, why would I take my mesmer over another character? Why would I take my axe warrior over my hammer warrior? Just to show a mesmer and a hammer warrior now has the opportunity to get in a group? It's still not achieving the goal of getting all classes involved in elite areas, in a manner that justifies them being there in the first place.

With the standard 8 party assembly of mixed professions, I at least had the option of using 6 of my ten characters, regardless of specific builds, based on how I felt like playing at the time.

When you use Ursan, you're not a Mesmer looking for a group. You're an Ursan looking for a group.

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

04 Feb 2008 at 07:00 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

A ward is not going to provide anywhere near as much defense as a paragon, and your damage will not be better unless you're balling large groups of enemies for Rodgort's. At which point I'd rather have a rit for Splinter Weapon since it's better.

You're basically devoting that entire character slot just for defense when you can use a paragon to provide more defense with offense. SY is not going to reduce armour ignoring damage either, TNTF will. Let's also not forget that it gives a party wide heal when the duration expires.

Bonders as a whole are fairly worthless. Devoting skill slots on a monk to reduce the damage done by physicals when you can just chain Aegis or slap Weakness on a mob's face.

I never see Rt/R with Broad Head Arrow, one of the best skills to use in PvE. I don't need to have a lot of damage when one skill completely shuts down a priority target.

Mesmers are really not all that bad. The domination line is very useful for taking out targets that matter. They just don't see play because players value AoE more than anything.

Every build will incorporate a 2-monk backline; having a real WoH (that is, a hybrid) with a bonder is essentially all you need: occasional top-offs, and the like. 91% damage mitigated with unlimited energy is pretty good, I heard. Hell, you could probably even mop up damage with a single Heal Party.

If your backline is halfway decent you won't need a paragon, and you can focus on something actually worthwhile - e.g., another warrior.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 07:02 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

If you can't psych out your opponent, you're very limited on what you can do with a Mesmer.

*scratches head* in PvE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Also Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain equals 260 damage to every monster in the area every 15 seconds with zero time spent on grinding.

Ehhh Splinter Weapon is going to do more damage faster, in one skill slot, and not use my elite. If that is what a mesmer is going to do to try and convince me to let it in the group I'm going to slot my rit hero with 14 channeling, Splinter Weapon, and nothing else instead.

Trying to make a mesmer do good AoE damage is not how you should play a PvE mesmer because it's their weakest attribute. Skills like Backfire and Shatter Enchantment are going to make important things die. When important things die you've won the fight. Necromancers in comparison are good at making the unimportant targets die (SS on whatever attacks fastest, minion masters throwing damage randomly around the mob), with very little support on the targets that matter (Barbs on the monk while our physicals beat it up, Rip Enchantment if something annoying pops up).

DivineEnvoy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

Me/P

04 Feb 2008 at 07:03 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Also Signet of Illusions + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain equals 260 damage to every monster in the area every 15 seconds with zero time spent on grinding. If you do grind, you could take elite like Mantra of Recovery to increase DPS. PvE skills have made Mesmer quite viable PvE profession, luckily for those who chose to play Mesmer in PvE.

Cry of Pain can only do 100 AoE damage with 12 seconds recharge with max rank in Sunspear, and Ether Nightmare does not do any damage at all. How do you do 260 damage with that combination?

I tried Glyph of Renewal + Cry of Pain to do 200 damage every 12 seconds, but the truth is, Elementalists can do more damage within half the duration.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

04 Feb 2008 at 07:05 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

*scratches head* in PvE?

That was kinda my point. You can't in PvE. Therefore, Mesmers aren't as effective in PvE as they are in PvP for that very reason.

kokuou

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/Me

04 Feb 2008 at 07:07 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

Hi aapo

When you use Ursan, you're not a Mesmer looking for a group. You're an Ursan looking for a group.

Exactly. Which is what allows someone whose main character is a Mesmer get into a UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep group to complete the area and possibly add a statue to their HoM.

That's not to say that a Mesmer has to use Ursan all the time; far from it. But, this allows someone that may not have one of those areas unlocked with their main character to give them a try.

Daenara

Bad Romance

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Grand Matron

Mo/

04 Feb 2008 at 07:13 - 58

lol at the people saying paragons suck .

I know it's a tired old line... but if you can't see the advantages of a paragon, you're not doing it right. I'm not talking about the 5 attack skills + signet of synergy + other random crap that I've seen on pug paragon bars, but a real paragon bar is just sexy. Brings a new meaning to tab spacing your way through pve, because you'll just roll through it :P

Oh, and..er.. back to the main topic, the only class I can see as being disadvantaged as an ursan (if that is what you like to do!) is perhaps asassin, with their lower energy pool and armor class. But... if you're an ursan, who cares?

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 07:34 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

BHA is useful for the very occasional monk or Sandstorm boss in hard mode. Over the entire game there aren't more than half a dozen of them.

Which is why PvE is fairly easy; there are few encounters that are actually difficult. Broadhead Arrow suddenly makes the most difficult encounters as easy as the rest of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

In every other case you want to let the mobs activate most of their skills so they take damage from Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor.

Spiteful Spirit on a caster is going to yield terrible damage returns unless you're fighting a group of balled up casters. In which case I'd use Splinter Weapon since my warrior attacks faster than a caster casts. Spoil Victor is useful in multiple healer situations; physicals pound one while the SV deals with the other. Otherwise it's damage on a target I could care less about and just speeds up the process of wiping an already defeated mob.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Every build will incorporate a 2-monk backline; having a real WoH (that is, a hybrid) with a bonder is essentially all you need: occasional top-offs, and the like. 91% damage mitigated with unlimited energy is pretty good, I heard. Hell, you could probably even mop up damage with a single Heal Party.

If your backline is halfway decent you won't need a paragon, and you can focus on something actually worthwhile - e.g., another warrior.

I can drop that second monk for the paragon which is my point. There are very few areas that a second monk is truly necessary when you abuse PvE only skills. Places like Urgoz or The Deep where healing 12 people would be too much for the WoH guy, or areas with NPCs that don't get the benefits of your passive defense. With that much damage reduction coming from a single skill, not even considering what Aegis, Enfeebling Blood, etc... are all doing, it's very hard to justify using two party slots on characters that aren't attacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

That was kinda my point. You can't in PvE. Therefore, Mesmers aren't as effective in PvE as they are in PvP for that very reason.

But they're dumb enough to attack through Empathy and cast through Backfire. Taking down monks is so much easier when almost all of their healing is being negated by Backfire. When the healer of the group dies it's just a matter of killing the enemies attacking your wall of passive defense.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

04 Feb 2008 at 07:43 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

But they're dumb enough to attack through Empathy and cast through Backfire. Taking down monks is so much easier when almost all of their healing is being negated by Backfire. When the healer of the group dies it's just a matter of killing the enemies attacking your wall of passive defense.

That is true, but is a Mesmer designed to take down those one or two trouble foes per group needed versus any other character that can take down the group as a whole in about the same amount of time? Of course it works, but is it better, or even on par with other classes in PvE?

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 07:52 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

That is true, but is a Mesmer designed to take down those one or two trouble foes per group needed versus any other character that can take down the group as a whole in about the same amount of time? Of course it works, but is it better, or even on par with other classes in PvE?

In the eyes of the community they are not. Single target damage is shunned in PuGs; mesmers are unwanted, warriors max strength and earth magic to tank, assassins are a warrior that can't tank like a warrior so we don't want you. Barrage, Spiteful Spirit, Searing Flames, Ursan, etc... are the only way to get things done in PvE according to PuGs. AoE that's what is important, even if a warrior is using its weapon it's for Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe because AoE is much better than Dragon Slash!

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

04 Feb 2008 at 07:56 - 62

The problem with PuGs is perception.

The three main fallacies of GW PuGs are IMO:

1.) Believing in Tanks
2.) Believing in the Holy Trinity of Tank, Nuker, Healer, that gets translated into Warrior, Elementalist, pure Healing (!) Monk
3.) Ursans > Everything

Ursans are good to make up for player deficiencies and are easy to play, this makes them popular for good reason.

Paragons and Ritualists are severly undervalued. An Axe Warrior with 2-3 AoE attacks cannot hope for anything better than Channeling Ritualist. Splinter Weapon + Ancestor's Rage kills things incredibly fast.

It took Necromancers a long time till they were recognized, the same for Rangers. Mesmers will probably never lose the Stigma of being "useless". In a world of incompetent players, an incompetent Mesmer is probably among the worst - this is the logic behind it...^^

Still, the other conclusion drawn from this does not hold true either: A really bad player cannot become better by picking a profession that has it easy and really has advantages in PvE.

Hm... don't PUG with Ursans, so you do not have to bear their stupidity. :>

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

04 Feb 2008 at 07:59 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

In the eyes of the community they are not. Single target damage is shunned in PuGs; mesmers are unwanted, warriors max strength and earth magic to tank, assassins are a warrior that can't tank like a warrior so we don't want you. Barrage, Spiteful Spirit, Searing Flames, Ursan, etc... are the only way to get things done in PvE according to PuGs. AoE that's what is important, even if a warrior is using its weapon it's for Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe because AoE is much better than Dragon Slash!

I really don't think it is an issue with the community. Although a tank is useless everywhere, AoE is the most efficient way to steamroll through most of PvE. Sure, you could make specific team builds for specific areas that will be much more efficient, but if you just want to pick up and go (see: casual players), why deviate from what works best in general? No, this is an issue with how the game is designed as a whole, not the community's approach to the game.

Elite areas are the only exception to this rule, but sadly, they are a very small percentage of the game. That is why I generally say 99% of PvE. While that number may be skewed, the point remains - Mesmers only have a real place in the areas that all the other classes have the most trouble and the 'generic build' mentality suffers.

Then came along Ursan which pretty much ruined that.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 08:00 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

The problem with PuGs is perception.

The three main fallacies of GW PuGs are IMO:

1.) Believing in Tanks
2.) Believing in the Holy Trinity of Tank, Nuker, Healer, that gets translated into Warrior, Elementalist, pure Healing (!) Monk
3.) Ursans > Everything
4.) Warriors = Tank

You forgot that one.
Everytime I hear someone call a "Warrior" a "Tank" I jump one step closer to incinerating him to death.
I even got called "Dumbass" for saying: "It's WARRIOR not TANK".

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 08:22 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I really don't think it is an issue with the community. Although a tank is useless everywhere, AoE is the most efficient way to steamroll through most of PvE. Sure, you could make specific team builds for specific areas that will be much more efficient, but if you just want to pick up and go (see: casual players), why deviate from what works best in general? No, this is an issue with how the game is designed as a whole, not the community's approach to the game.

Having a lot of AoE or having little in my experiences generally doesn't impact the timing a whole lot. There are of course those occasions when the mob balls up just right and all of the AoE hits so perfectly that the +exp all pops up at once. But it isn't going to happen all the time unless you tanknspank which is going to be really slow. There is that nice balance between the AoE and single target damage that every other approach is going to use. People just perfer to have more AoE when really the professions that excel at making one thing die are just as good.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

04 Feb 2008 at 08:34 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Having a lot of AoE or having little in my experiences generally doesn't impact the timing a whole lot. There are of course those occasions when the mob balls up just right and all of the AoE hits so perfectly that the +exp all pops up at once. But it isn't going to happen all the time unless you tanknspank which is going to be really slow. There is that nice balance between the AoE and single target damage that every other approach is going to use. People just perfer to have more AoE when really the professions that excel at making one thing die are just as good.

When I'm talking AoE, I'm referring to the difference in usefulness between the damage a class with AoE (be it Ele nuker, Splinter Weapon, SS, whatever) can do, and how essential that is to most of PvE, versus the team slot that Mesmer uses that is less effective as a whole. Of course, it may be better to compare to the positions filled by other classes for taking out a single target. Compare what that Mesmer can do to take out a monk (for instance), to what that D-Slash warrior can do. Compare the shutdown that Mesmer can do to any spellcaster versus a BHA ranger. When you have options, there are always better options than taking a Mesmer for whatever job is at hand - with those few exceptions of elite areas that may require more shutdown and more 'sniping' than most of PvE.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 08:55 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

When I'm talking AoE, I'm referring to the difference in usefulness between the damage a class with AoE (be it Ele nuker, Splinter Weapon, SS, whatever) can do, and how essential that is to most of PvE, versus the team slot that Mesmer uses that is less effective as a whole.

When it comes to AoE then yes the mesmer is going to be the weakest choice. I mentioned that in an earlier post that if you're trying to make your mesmer do good AoE damage you're not going to be able to. It isn't what they're made to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Compare what that Mesmer can do to take out a monk (for instance), to what that D-Slash warrior can do. Compare the shutdown that Mesmer can do to any spellcaster versus a BHA ranger. When you have options, there are always better options than taking a Mesmer for whatever job is at hand - with those few exceptions of elite areas that may require more shutdown and more 'sniping' than most of PvE.

Well that is going to depend entirely on the area. In the presence of warrior hate the mesmer is just as useful but obviously lacking in the AL department. BHA to me is one of the best skills in the game PvE wise, but still the mesmer has Backfire so unless those heals are greater than Backfire's damage the mesmer would be just as useful. For taking down a non-monk caster the mesmer will be more useful than daze; I can load passive defense to deal with the damage their spells will deal.

Elite Areas I would say the mesmer is less useful in Urgoz and the Deep. Too many important targets, a larger emphasis on AoE is the stronger route.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Feb 2008 at 09:11 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Spiteful Spirit on a caster is going to yield terrible damage returns unless you're fighting a group of balled up casters. In which case I'd use Splinter Weapon since my warrior attacks faster than a caster casts. Spoil Victor is useful in multiple healer situations; physicals pound one while the SV deals with the other. Otherwise it's damage on a target I could care less about and just speeds up the process of wiping an already defeated mob.

Actually, my thought there was unfinished. I meant SS and SV as examples of punishment hexes. There are others, most importantly Pain Inverter, but also including Backfire, Soul Leech, etc. My point is, instead of shutting casters down in PvE with BHA, let them cast and kill themselves.

I personally think BHA is a pointless elite. It has very limited use in both PvE and PvP. After the gee wiz factor the first few times, I tossed it for good ol' Concussion Shot (for the rare instances where daze is actually necessary) and brought another decent elite instead. (In my case, the decent elite is Defiant Was Xinrae, one of the least used and understood elites in the entire game, but also one of the best in PvE.)

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

04 Feb 2008 at 09:17 - 69

BHA is a pointless elite? What? It's the best caster shutdown you'll find in PvE. Good job waiting for the opportunity to concussion while you could actually just shoot with no thought and spread via epidemic. Easy.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

04 Feb 2008 at 09:23 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

There are people who want to get a challenge and create builds while there are those who want to get the job done. Nearly all PuGs are the latter and have never tried anything new. Its always been one team set up until it ether gets nerfed or a new more efficient one pops up.

Yep, that's FoW groups for you. I try to go in there with a damage warrior, air ele or a sin but nothing doing. At least not with PUGs. I try to bring them to light about their stupidity but they just don't seem to get that Tanks and Bonders make you bad at this game. Oh well. I'll just keep ridiculing and causing grief whenever I have time and feel like doing so.

Someone called me a noob once cause I said tanks suck. LOL. Wooh boy.

Oh and if you have to use a bonder it's because A. Your team doesn't PvP/bad at the game and can't kite enemies in a manner that is good kiting (not running off aggroing other mobs like a tard). B. You and or your team doesn't know how to play because they aren't doing enough damage or are using a tank. Basically go to FoW and you see the majority of fail that is PUG in Guild Wars. Because I hate you if you use a tank (ele or warrior) I will mess up your aggro so I can show you that you suck without having damage, because you won't find me doing that boring robot stuff, I don't need money/titles so when I'm on your team I'm on for fun and I will force that shit on you. I stick it to the man.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

04 Feb 2008 at 09:33 - 71

Why would you use "air magic" in Pve?

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

04 Feb 2008 at 09:36 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why would you use "air magic" in Pve?

You wouldn't for the most part as Fire is better in doing AoE damage. But it's boring as hell being a fire ele for 2 years. I just mentioned it for a change of pace, Air Ele's have a chance to be great in PvE but you'd have to know how to play one.

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

04 Feb 2008 at 09:45 - 73

I didn't know whether to be happy or unhappy, when I slapped a Pain Inverter on an Ele boss, only to see my hero BHA ranger shut it down for the entire duration. Either way, I end up the winner.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

04 Feb 2008 at 09:46 - 74

Can you mention its greatness?

Air magic spells are too costly, blind in Pve is inferior to anti-melee hexes and weakness.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

04 Feb 2008 at 09:48 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why would you use "air magic" in Pve?

Hmm ... solo quests? DUH

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Feb 2008 at 09:56 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why would you use "air magic" in Pve?

Storm Djinn's Haste is godly in PvE.

Assuming you're doing something brainless like farming faction with heroes.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

04 Feb 2008 at 14:08 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why would you use "air magic" in Pve?

Cracked Armor+Weakness+Blindness+Epidemic=Laught at melee mobs.
I bring an AirMeser Vekk when facing Destroyers or Golems. Works wonders.

And no, they are not equal. Even the Norn blessings and other effects that repace all skills keep some differences. At least when you are under an effect that replace all skills they should remove profession differences.

Kos Luftar

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Canada

Scars Meadows

W/Mo

04 Feb 2008 at 14:29 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

In the eyes of the community they are not. Single target damage is shunned in PuGs; mesmers are unwanted, warriors max strength and earth magic to tank, assassins are a warrior that can't tank like a warrior so we don't want you. Barrage, Spiteful Spirit, Searing Flames, Ursan, etc... are the only way to get things done in PvE according to PuGs. AoE that's what is important, even if a warrior is using its weapon it's for Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe because AoE is much better than Dragon Slash!

Yeh, they are all equal because we can all use Ursan Blessing which is the best skill in the game.

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

04 Feb 2008 at 15:15 - 79

Go another disctricts and Int there you faind other parties. Best partys for farming i get with mates and guildies and never ursanway its so booring.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 16:08 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

I didn't know whether to be happy or unhappy, when I slapped a Pain Inverter on an Ele boss, only to see my hero BHA ranger shut it down for the entire duration. Either way, I end up the winner.

If only there were a way to prevent heroes from using certain skills....

Quote:

Oh and if you have to use a bonder it's because A. Your team doesn't PvP/bad at the game and can't kite enemies in a manner that is good kiting (not running off aggroing other mobs like a tard). B. You and or your team doesn't know how to play because they aren't doing enough damage or are using a tank. Basically go to FoW and you see the majority of fail that is PUG in Guild Wars.

I once joined a FoW group with paragon that was looking for a bonder. I said I don't do bonder and went with usual heal/prot, either ZB or DH (that was before WoH).

About 15 minutes in, the other monk left. If I were a bonder, that would be game over. Instead, we went and completed FoW, with 6 people at the end. "Healing" was done by 1 monk and 1 paragon. That's all you need. No bonders, no healers, no tanks, just protection and damage mitigation. Then use minor heals to touch up.

Bonder in FoW also has to deal with enchantment shattering, and is completely useless against scales, which are arguably one of the more annoying parts, since they go through all protection.

But PUGs will be PUGs.