Are all the proffessions equal in pve pugs?

Who the hell let the Anti-ursan QQers in the door? This isn't your topic to derail so stay out. Reminds me of those crazy religious fanatics. Their way is the ONLY way or you burn in hell. They'll take every opportunity they can to pass on that belief. >_>

@OP The answer is NO. Never has been any equality and never will be in regards to professions.

What are you on? The OP frickin started with "My main problm is with Ursan blessing". How is anything agreeing with that sentiment, and hence anti-UB, "derailing" the thread?

Are you playing mesmer now? Is your mesmer welcome in PUGs now? What do you run, illusion? Domination?

Or did you realize that mesmers are not welcome, and switched to touch ranger (which UB is).

UB is not triumph for underdog classes.

Might've just read the topic I'm assuming.

Very good quote.

what you dont get is, yes true, they do not use their class specific skill, but it opens them up to join groups as ursan.

for example, im a mesmer, no one wants me, i might as well be ursan so i can get in a group, though i may not be using my class per say but ursan, it doesnt require me to reroll or select a new char that does a certain job. thus i can still play my mesmer [which ALOT do not want] but just not use my skills. but hey, i got a group as a mesmer not needing to be any other class like a ele/warr/monk.

The problem is with pugging, noone knows whether the other people know how to play their professions, regardless of what they are.

So it is much safer to fall back on a working formula. Harder to go wrong with 3 SF or SH eles and a bonder with an obsi tank. Harder to go wrong with 5 bears and 3 monks.

These builds exist to save time. They may not actually save time in the dungeon. I think a well played balanced group of either players or players + heroes, are actually faster than the obsi-tank teams. (OK, maybe a bit hard to be faster than the Ursan teams)

They definitely save all the time of repeated failing, rage-quitting and resigning and stuff. So if people have to pug, that will likely to be the result.

If you're playing with guildies or friends you play together often, and they know you're half decent at the profession you wanna play, then you're less likely to be asked to play in a way you do not like.

Having said that, Ursan is too strong, but nerfing Ursan would just mean reverting to the obsi-tank-nuker-bonder groups ad infinitum. There is no solution for this because you cannot demonstrate your abilities at your profession to another player without spending a bit of time playing in tougher areas an HM.

By the time you do spend some time demonstrating that ability, that guy becomes a friend and not a pug.

/facepalm
10

The main flaw with the arguement of the "little mesmer that no one wanted" is that underneath your name it says, profession Rt.
I have a mesmer. I have 9 level 20 PvE characters. It isn't like I "never" get to do DoA without Ursan. I can always switch characters to get into areas with an elitiest mind set.
When the level cap is so low, it is very easy to have multiple characters. All the people who complain about being an "unpopular class that can't get into a group without UB" are full of it, because chances are they have 2 or 3 other characters that are a popular class. So what if your mesmer can't do one specific area (though some places like DoA and Urgoz were poorly designed in the first place)? That doesn't mean you can't do those areas at all.

pve was never equal, and will never be. u might as well ask for 1 class in the game if all classes were to be equal. sure, skills could be balanced out for that to work, but we all know how good anet is at balancing so lets leave it to that. like honestly, anet should jsut unnerf 99% of skills and let the meta settle. may be chaotic but at least it wont be stale.

mesmers are fun in pve cuz u get to practice interrupting!

I am a Mesmer myself, and unfortunely, my Mesmer is my main character. In other words, I really don't care if I get the Domain of Anguish statue on my Monk or Elementalist, but I want it on my Mesmer, since it is the only character that I want to have for my Guild Wars 2 character to inherent to. Just because of this choice, does it mean I have to switch my main character to an Elementalist or Monk, so that I can do these areas? My point is, it doesn't mean that there are no possible ways for us to go around and switch to our alternative characters to do these area, but instead, we don't really have a purpose to do these areas then, since we can't do it with our main character.

An 8-man group with 1 monk, no matter how defensive your other characters are (unless you have hexes, or some N/Rt bullshit), is just asking to be wiped immediately. One mistake from that monk, and it's... oh shit, wipe.

I don't know, I mean so far I've been vanquishing with only one monk and have had no problems. And no, I don't run tri-nec (sabway, whatever), but I will occasionally have a rit healer with the WoH hybrid monk if the area has too much pressure. Other than that, paras provide plenty of protection and support along with their damage contribution.

You don't lose all that much by slotting 1 monk instead of 2. When you have that massive wall of defense your monk is mostly there to keep your physicals clean, and heal armor ignoring damage. Protective Spirit and Reversal of Fortune, two staples of a monk, are rather useless when an SY is present in the party so it's not like that one monk would be spamming those skills and draining their energy. WoH can be saved for anyone who happens to drop slowly below 50% because really with 90%~ reduction you'll never see anyone go from 50% to dead before WoH goes off.

The majority of encounters will go like this: Aegis up, priority dead by the time Aegis drops, spot heals on targets that may have taken damage while SY was building, clean the warriors of blind and miss hexes if present. Finish off the rest of the group.

It's not the monk that I'm worried about making mistakes; it's the tools we've slotted over the other 7 characters that replace the second monk.

I just wish people would open up their eyes and realize that the holy trinity isn't the only thing effective in this world. Not gonna happen anytime soon, but yeah...

Last time I went in FoW, I had 2 rits (channeling, restauration), a scythe mastery dervish, a Flashing Blades assassin, a ranger (think he was a Splinter though) and 2 monks (one smite, I was prot). 2 deaths total, sin overraggroed by mistake.

It's FUN to get different professions... I squee everytime I see a paragon or a mesmer with a MESMER build inviting to my teams. I stopped looking for nukers, I want damagers - you're an assassin with a decent build? Good, welcome aboard!

Now, if I want to do DoA and want to -succeed- using PUGs, I'm sorry but I'll have to go with ursan. First of all, doesn't take 20 minutes to set bars considering the area (yes, bad, very bad design...). Second, I'm NOT gonna spend 7 hours like I did in Veil when it came out. Instead, I'll be 3 hours maximum with a good percentage of success depending if my ursans are idiots or not. I'd rather waste 30 minutes than 4 hours...

as what divine envoy says, people do have main characters and want to build them up. what your saying is the person should be a class RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO and just keep changing on the fly. some of us do want one main character we can focus our attention on

^^ /agree

it is, after all, a coRPG

This argument carries as much weight as a single sheet of toilet paper since PVE isn't competitive. That being said, there are people playing PVE like it is life and death, similar to Latin American soccer fans.... fanatics. At the end of the day, how the other dimmer bulbs play their game is none of your f*&king business.

If you feel so strongly about your e-peen, go buy A-net. But then, do inform everyone so that they can stop buying future products.

I do realize your point that by using UB, you aren't playing your class. However, UB means that my mesmer actually has a hope of getting the FoW and UW statues in HoM with a pug. If a class isn't wanted, there's not much you can do about it, and I'll be damned if I'm rerolling to another main char after the 1000+ hours I've spent on my main.

I also don't have time to spend tens or hundreds of hours forming clear out groups which /fail because some noob didn't watch his aggro or "didn't know it would take this long". I'm going to be really blunt here. I despise playing with other people because, frankly, they are stupid. Not all of them, but it only takes one to severely screw up 2 hours work. Ursan fixes that because it's so simple they can't screw it up.

In a way what you are saying is that your right to determine how the other person should play this game to accomodate your goals outweighs their right to play their game in the way they want to.

It is a two way thing, give and take a little, negotiate, discuss strategies. As long as you do not understand and accept this, PuG's will fail. If you do not leave room for other players to have their fun, they'll prefer to H&H, giving rise to more Heroes-ruined-the-game threads.

Ursanway avoids the part where you have to negotiate and accept that you can not [control another player. Ursanway predicts what GW2 is going to be like, limited or even fixed skillsets with little variation. Ursanway is the definitive end of the last remnants of - the already weak - RP in GW, effectively turning it into a FPS, where every character has the exact same abilities.

I don't blame the players for thinking so: Ursan Blessing is more powerful than any conceivable real skillbar for all professions except monk, so any non-monk running anything else is running a gimped build.

The real irony is that the blessings completely reverse the whole philosophy of Guild Wars - skill over time - and that it equals a 100% nerf of all skills and professions in the game (except monk).

ArenaNet pwned their own game with them.

Ursan is worst because it's the only skill in the game which synergizes with itself, so that the more ursans there are on the team the more powerful it gets, but the PvE skills in general are without doubt the worst design decision I've ever seen in a released game, beating even Oblivions "scale enemies to player level" misfeature.

I would applaud everyone having the same capabilities, if GW2 was fps-like. The thing with Ursan in GW vs weapons in an FPS is that in an FPS you need player skill to use the weapons, while in GW the player skill was in selecting which capabilities to bring in a given situation and when to use them. Ursan, in other words, removed the one aspect of GW which required player skill, without replacing it with the skill-requiring aspect of fps's.

Now, if ArenaNet wants to destroy the very soul of their own game that's their prerogative, but I'd much have preferred that they didn't do it by making the game murderously dull. Because that's why I no longer run Ursan - it's boring as heck to play.

I notice some proffesions are unwanted in certain areas, but then needed in others. So i dont think sonme proffesions are completely useless these days.
Each have there own ability that brings something to the group, if organised well enough and player ability is good.

Every proffesion has a chance to get the statue in DOA etc, but some proffesions will take more effort than others...thats just the way it is. Your best bet is to get a guildie group going, then you can practise and adjust so it works. or if not guildie, friends. These are the people who are supposed to help you and have more patience with this kind of thing than a PUG (they want to get the best teams in quick and fast, well mostly).

To me guildie or friend group seems to be the best answer for now, if you really want to get the statue etc. If it is just to farm then it would be quicker to re-roll and get something PuGS desire.

Some people dont know that mesmers make very good Ele's or an SS even or that a Sin can be a decent barrager.. and so on and so on...

Most pugs are very narrowminded one of the reasons i hardly pug

Only because...
1) Not everyone has EotN and access to Ursan.
2) Not everyone has yet realized how much better ursanway is than all other conceivable teambuilds in all areas of the game.

We all luv Ursan.

Every proffesion has its uses, some people are better at finding those uses and running certain builds than others.

I cringe when ever I see a necro or mesmer running Ursan Blessing as they have builds that are far more effective and usefull.

What build would that be?

I'd be very interested in knowing what build I should give my mesmer so she can do armor-ignoring 150 damage every three seconds without caring about energy, and require less healing due to more armor and give her extra health and not having to care about hexes and giving the entire team perhaps 95% damage reduction through knockdown and doing another 135 damage and keeping the enemy weakened.

My necro can do more raw DPS as a minionmaster, but from a team PoV he too is more useful as an ursan. Everyone is more useful for the team as an ursan. Except monks, because the one thing Ursan lacks is self heal.

You forgot they'll probably have an overinflated ego about thinking they're good playing anything after they finish winning pve in less than a month.

Yeah - Warriors had the option to go obby tank, no?

In all my years of playing GW I have never seen anything more powerful in PvE than a CoP spike from a group of Mesmers. over 1200 damage in under 2 seconds to all foes in the Area is never a bad thing.

Ignorance must be truly bliss for some people.

I'm not saying Mesmers can clear every area in the game but they can clear quite a bit on their own.

Tell me has there been any other pure profession groups that has cleared the DoA 4 main areas? I might be mistaken but I can only think of one.

The Mesmer...

I'd challenge any other pure primary profession group to claim that right.

Not always. Ursan's awesome killing power stumbles completely when faced with exploding enemies, such as the undead in Shards of Orr. A mesmer is most useful there as a signet smiter, and necros for AoE debuffs.

Doesn’t ursan work best for warriors due to higher armor rating?

We can also get over a thousand health with it.

That’s cool man, thx. Also thx for not flaming me. :P

Originally Posted by Razz Thom
Who gives a S**T? Screw em. Let em stay bad if it makes them happy. It really isn't your business.

And this is bad because??

Originally Posted by Razz Thom
forgot to say.... the unskilled doorknobs who think warriors and mending are a good combo bought GW just like those with the capacity to learn. they should be entitled to enjoy their money too.

Agree. very good point.

increase energy to 25 and recharge to 2mins.
That might help.
But in my ideal world, UB should of never happened.

Note- UB is borring.
The only reson you would play/farm using it is because your either addicted to GW,trying to prove that your a good player ( not a 'noob'), a bot or an obsessive farmer.

Yes and no. It does really work best for warriors, partly because of the armor, partly because of Stonefist insignia, but if you've got sufficient ursans in the team the enemy wont be able to do much damage to you due to constant AoE knockdowns, so the lower armor isn't as vital as one might think. Also, while +20 armor and +200 health may not sound too impressive, it does give reasonable tankability (and you'll get some more armor still from the shield).

EDIT: That warriors can get >1000 health with ursan by using Signet of Stamina is true, but not very significant - while the effect doesn't end as long as you only use the ursan attacks, it DOES end if you use your weapon, and without using your zealous weapon you'll have difficulty keeping ursan up indefinitely.

Fixed it for you, much closer to the truth now.

I'd have to say that warriors are at the bottom of the other melee professions, my version, for a basic team setup and builds, is:
Assassin > Paragon > Mesmer > Necromancer > Ritualist > Monk > Dervish > Elementalist > Ranger > Warrior
Of course thats in a basic idea, the order changes depending on what you are doing.

This, sadly, is mostly true, even though Rits and Sins are very good professions.

I feel the same, I am waiting for Ursan to be nurfed, its annoying me that I MUST run Ursan to get a DoA group with my sin now.

I want the skill nurfe and I am not a "leetist" nor anything near, sadly.

Heh, sad thing about this statement....its true.

Lol, I know many paragon's who could rip your statement apart, as I noticed while reading on, some did. Although my main is not a Paragon, what I could say is that Paragons are ment for FAST PARTY SUPPORT, not damage, so yes they do less damage, but still can give damage. Also, there is more to using "There's Nothing to Fear!" and "Save ourselves!" but the reason why paragons use those two skills is because 1)"Save Yourselves!" is adrenaline, so gives energy to themselves, something that doesn't work for monks. 2) "There's Nothing to Fear!" gives damage reduction and heals the party. 3) The combination of both gives a LOT of armor+dmg reduction, something that is not easy for monks to do, although can be done.

First two parts, I agree. However, with claiming that Assassins and Mesmers are the worst, I strongly disagree. Assassins can outdo Wars and Dervs easily, just as Mesmers can shutdown nearly any profession, depending on e build used.

Thank you! Although I do not play mesmer, I will always say that mesmers are great professions and are WAY underlooked, just like assassins.

Yup, thats why people hate mesmers, they can't play them well, I admit, I can't either, but with the intelligence thing, same goes for Assassins. Funny how the two professions I find to be the best are also the most hated and least wanted, also that they need some intelligence to play as.

Lol, I know how you feel, although I have yet to be called a "Dumbass" for that reason. Tanks are simply someone that can take lots of aggro and live, in essence, all solo builds are "tank" builds.

People only want to get this skill nurfed because the of 4 reasons. 1) Those without EN can't get in groups as easily. 2)Those that don't care about maxing norn title now have to in order to get a group easily. 3) Profession builds are now useless. 4) Those that don't want to do ursanway, and cannot solo yet, such as myself, who are also NOT "leetist" can then get into groups without having to change our build into something we don't want to run.

But it DID get worse, why? Because people are hardly wanting non-ursans now.

Although I cannot, and will not, say that I never see the "balanced" teams wanting people, I can very easily say that the Ursanway teams are much much more common and it is starting to get a non-guild started balance team.

Ok, you gotta tell me who is looking for non-ursan groups, that is completely pug, I don't have a guild so I can't start a group in a guild, and because I'm not in someone's guild, those who start guild groups rarly want non-guildies to join, mainly because of how much people hate pugs.

Now for your overall arguement, Razz Thom, yes Ursan has helped many "noobs" and non-"leetists" be able to farm the elite areas, but now Ursan is wanted TO MUCH, which is my problem, and why I want Ursan to be nurfed to a point where it is still good but not "better" then balanced.


As for my idea for what to do with ursan, I say either nurf it so that its not as good, but doesn't suck, or buff some skills, or add skills, so that there is more variety to how to do Elite areas for "noobs"

well said azazel

/agree

Eight Team Mesmer or Paragon teams pwn Ursans everytime... fact!

Ursan Blessing is a must now for many PUGs... and it is sad. I miss the days of old, where profession and build made a lot of sense.

Having said that, the wait time to get into groups now to do DoA or UW is next to nothing, and Ursans really simplify the PUG... six Ursans (showing their ranks) and two HB Monks equals about an hour less waiting time to leave a town.

How many people here even remember waiting for a PUG to form?

How many people here have wasted hours waiting for an Urgoz team to form with specialized builds?

I think the time that it takes for it to wear out was pretty long, I think it nearly reached a minute. So if the mob isn't dead by then, then wow that group must have some problems.

And even if a skill didn't work too well then you are totally fine, since Ursan can be entirely effective by itself. There are no wasted skill slots.

And Azazel: Not sure about what you mean in terms of a warrior's effectiveness. Dragon Slash warriors have the best overall and functioning DPS. In terms of utility, you mean?