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FalconDance

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

...deep within the sylvan splendor...

Order of the Migrating Coconuts [ALBA]

07 Feb 2008 at 16:39 - 241

Still trying to figure out why people are hating /D using Myst Regen so much. I'm tinkering with it on my Ele and it synergizes rather well with things like attunements. So, run two attunements, for example, and Myst Regen and you have your 3 max enchants ....... anymore than that and you're just wasting skill slots when you could have damage loaded. It is real sweet for running an all Earth build

.

Heaven's Delight - energy decrease is nice but they cut its heal down to practically nil.

Mesmer - personally I don't think they got hit so badly it makes the profession unplayable. When I play either of my mesmers, the foe generally strike in less than 10 sec. anyhow, so the decreased duration is more in line with reality. Oh, maybe it's the PvPers griefing now?

Necros - well, I haven't used much in the Blood line for about a year and a half now, so not terribly impressed. Seems to me that decreased cast times would be *far* more useful than energy decreases.

Ranger - meh. A whopping 3 extra seconds? Why? Again, a cast decrease would've been more useful.

Warriors - self-heal(s) still suck. Pet Healers, don't leave home without them.

Paragons - well, that's not too bad, actually. Workable.

Dervish - hmmm, I'm going to have to cap Grenth and see what the hubbub is all about, I suppose.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

07 Feb 2008 at 16:43 - 242

If you're spending your time stacking up enchantments for MR, you're probably a useless tanking character anyway. I can't think of any viable build that's going to stack up that many defensive enchantments.

*note* I don't care about farming.

Woop Shotty

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ruthless Mafia [RM]

Mo/

07 Feb 2008 at 16:48 - 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantra Existantance

Have to "lol" at all the Necro skill buffs.
A lot of Blood skills are now 1 energy.

Damn Necros.

While I like the 1e changes to Necro line, I still realize it's unnecessary. It's a fun buff

. Soul Reaping makes it so those skills don't need to be 1e.

If we had 1e scythe and spear attacks that would be something bad for balance. Personally, as I just play PvE it'd be super fun to take advantage of W/D more, or W/P, but the Dervish and Paragon don't really need that sort of buff.

Making 1e Necro skills makes me think of how pointless 1e Ranger skills would be to Rangers.

I'm just surprised they introduced 1e and 20e!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

Still trying to figure out why people are hating /D using Myst Regen so much. I'm tinkering with it on my Ele and it synergizes rather well with things like attunements. So, run two attunements, for example, and Myst Regen and you have your 3 max enchants ....... anymore than that and you're just wasting skill slots when you could have damage loaded. It is real sweet for running an all Earth build

.

The reason is that the extra +3 regen per enchantment also covered for degen spells and conditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Could everyone please stop saying Grenth's Avatar is worse?

Anyone who seriously believes that it's a nerf should be banned for idiocy.

OHAI, MY NAME IS AEGIS.
OHAI, MINE'S GUARDIAN
OHAI, MINE'S SOD

OSHI- we can't block you

Well in PvP it's all good, but PvE is lots harder and unpredictable, so Grenth's Avatar should do something more, like raise minions automatically on foes' deaths. That or friendly lvl 26 smites.

Steboy93

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Feb 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] | Ex-Officer [TAM]

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 16:53 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

Grats on making yet another utterly empty and therefore shit title track for grind monkeys.

Where is the Questing track?

Totally agreed, gold sink titles are just pathetic and don't reflect on skill at all, just how deep your pockets are and how much money you have got to waste.

A questing title should have been implemented from the start and it was foolish not to make one.

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 16:58 - 245

I sure hope these pointless timesink titles don't take long to set up. I would be most unhappy if I found out that they're using perfectly good time to create perfectly useless crap.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Feb 2008 at 17:00 - 246

I really dont like the Avatar of Grenth change.... -.-

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 17:07 - 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

There are other bad skills and bad lines in the game, it's not like necros needed the buff as they had other viable options. However, it seems necros are often the first to get a buff and whenever there is a skill balance, they tend to get far more buffs than nerfs.

For example, 100 Blades has never been good, yet you still don't see it buffed. Pets aren't that great. Mesmers in PvE are still getting ignored, as are sassis. However, necros aren't exactly underpowered in thier other skill lines.

Part of me thinks Anet has a bit of a class bias.

You have to remember PvP balances are from a PvP view. In PvP, necro's were hardly used outside gimmicks. Blood magic was only ever really used in gimmick builds. As I said before, it's ANet's attempt to make blood magic viable. They get more buffs then nerfs because they're somewhat underpowered in balanced play.

There are many bad elites, ANet cannot buff every bad one. Hundred blades hasn't been touched because even if it was buffed, it would most likely still not see play. Pets aren't great, but they aren't bad. If anything, I'd say the problem with pets is beast mastery. Mesmers in PvE are getting ignored because the skill balance team could really care less about PvE. Again, necro's are somewhat underpowered in balanced play, and blood magic was by far their worst attribute line. There's nothing wrong with ANet attempting to make it viable.

I don't understand why you think ANet are biased. They buff what they think needs a buff, and they nerf what they think needs a nerf. Of course it's from a PvP view, so I'm not sure how much you understand about the balances.

Part of me thinks you're just mad because skills you like got nerfed, and/or other bad skills you like didn't get buffed, hence the complaining about the blood magic buff as opposed to a PvE mesmer buff.

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 17:09 - 248

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woop Shotty

Well in PvP it's all good, but PvE is lots harder and unpredictable, so Grenth's Avatar should do something more, like raise minions automatically on foes' deaths. That or friendly lvl 26 smites.

Erm..wow..you forgot /sarcasm tags, right ?

RIGHT?

Witchblade

Polar Bear Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

07 Feb 2008 at 17:11 - 249

don't like the skill? don't use it

keli

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Budapest

E/

07 Feb 2008 at 17:13 - 250

the problem is, avatar of grenth is really powerful now :/ an unblockable dervish? huh?

eximiis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

07 Feb 2008 at 17:20 - 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Could everyone please stop saying Grenth's Avatar is worse?

Anyone who seriously believes that it's a nerf should be banned for idiocy.

OHAI, MY NAME IS AEGIS.
OHAI, MINE'S GUARDIAN
OHAI, MINE'S SOD

OSHI- we can't block you

I am pleased to meet you all.

My name is Guiding hands and usually i'm with another friend called I'm not an elite skill.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

07 Feb 2008 at 17:21 - 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Could everyone please stop saying Grenth's Avatar is worse?

Anyone who seriously believes that it's a nerf should be banned for idiocy.

OHAI, MY NAME IS AEGIS.
OHAI, MINE'S GUARDIAN
OHAI, MINE'S SOD

OSHI- we can't block you

It is still a nerf. Here is why.
In GvG, one person won't result in a kill. The old arvatar of grenth remove those prots you are mentioning, including several you aren't (SoA, etc). That way, your entire team could attack the target. Now, only the dervish can hit the guy. Big deal? If you are wacking away on a preproted target, you are going to lose anyway.
Switching targets > Arvatar of Grenth

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

07 Feb 2008 at 17:25 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

I am pleased to meet you all.

My name is Guiding hands and usually i'm with another friend called I'm not an elite skill.

30 second recharge, lasts 20 seconds, only 5 attacks.

AoG - lasts over a minute, unstrippable, infinite amount of attacks as long as there is enchants (which there will be)

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 17:30 - 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

It is still a nerf. Here is why.
In GvG, one person won't result in a kill. The old arvatar of grenth remove those prots you are mentioning, including several you aren't (SoA, etc). That way, your entire team could attack the target. Now, only the dervish can hit the guy. Big deal? If you are wacking away on a preproted target, you are going to lose anyway.
Switching targets > Arvatar of Grenth

Before this update, grenth was quite useless. Now, it's somewhat playable. That sir, is not considered a nerf.

You're right, one person cannot kill a target. But how many melee's are usually attacking a target? It's usually one or two. Having one out of two melee players being able to attack through blocks can help get the kill. Sure, before your grenth dervish could remove the enchantments, but the avatar lasted for about 30 seconds. Being able to remove enchantments for 40 seconds with a 120 second recharge isn't really useful. Being able to attack through a protted target for about 63-79 seconds (depending on your mysticism) with a 120 seconds is somewhat useful.

eximiis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

07 Feb 2008 at 17:31 - 255

Quote:

Originally Posted by street peddler

30 second recharge, lasts 20 seconds, only 5 attacks.

AoG - lasts over a minute, unstrippable, infinite amount of attacks as long as there is enchants (which there will be)

Followed by an awesome 120 sec. skill disabled.

What you really want is the spike to pass. guiding hands makes the spike pass.

AoG is still bad. Enchantments removal was what made skill nice.

keli

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Budapest

E/

07 Feb 2008 at 17:38 - 256

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Followed by an awesome 120 sec. skill disabled.

What you really want is the spike to pass. guiding hands makes the spike pass.

AoG is still bad. Enchantments removal was what made skill nice.

True, but AoG keeps an unblockable pressure damage wich helps the spike.

C2K

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

07 Feb 2008 at 17:54 - 257

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

Mesmer - personally I don't think they got hit so badly it makes the profession unplayable. When I play either of my mesmers, the foe generally strike in less than 10 sec. anyhow, so the decreased duration is more in line with reality. Oh, maybe it's the PvPers griefing now?

Power Leak getting destroyed is a really big hit. It went from nuking around 20 energy to 5. Thats a pretty massive drop in 1 update. Heck, "Incoming!" got nerfed 3 times before it became useless.

As for Avatar of Grenth, I think is a valid attempt to make this skill looked at again. AoG was one of the better Avatars for quite sometime before getting nerfed into garbage. In its nerfed form, on average you could keep up AoG for 20 seconds, and in order to use it again, you had about 100 seconds of recharge to go through, and thats pretty bad for an elite. It has the chance to work because anchantments are very strong atm.

sterbenx2

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

New England

Lunatic Legion

N/

07 Feb 2008 at 18:10 - 258

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

J...F...C...!!!

They nerfed MESMERS and buffed NECROS?!

What The Hell?!

I mean, seriously, what the hell?

And no nerf to ursan.

lol, QFT! I've been playing a nec since april05. They certainly do NOT need a buff. tho Hexor's Vigor sucked until now, everything else was fine. So what if blood wasn't that great. It was good for support at times. There are WHOLE CLASSES that need help, nevermind one underused line. geez.

Oh, and Heavens Delight, BROKEN! PoS now, thx.

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

07 Feb 2008 at 18:15 - 259

The Xunlai NPC doesn't give me the January prize! (I am not doing anything wrong, I get it every month)

Maximumraver

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

The Netherlands

Twisted Revenge [TR]

E/

07 Feb 2008 at 18:18 - 260

I like the Blood changes, I've always used Blood Magic on my necro

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

07 Feb 2008 at 18:29 - 261

I do not see the benefit for necros with the blood magic skills.

OoB is now 9 energy at 1 costs (+8 gain) at ZERO blood magic for 20% life sac every 15 or less seconds.
This might bring it back as monk energy management.

But the others skills?

Wallow's Bite - Vampiric Bite - Touch of Agony - Vampiric Touch.
1-5-1-5 energy

This cries: TOUCH RANGER. Not a problematic build, they just extended the chain to a 4 touch skills in even faster succession.
But this, including plague touch, is so much more useful for Necromancer Secondaries than Necromancers themselves!

sixofone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

P/

07 Feb 2008 at 18:51 - 262

1e casts?!! For a class that really doesn't have an energy problem? huh??

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

07 Feb 2008 at 19:04 - 263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

But the others skills?

Wallow's Bite - Vampiric Bite - Touch of Agony - Vampiric Touch.
1-5-1-5 energy

This cries: TOUCH RANGER. Not a problematic build, they just extended the chain to a 4 touch skills in even faster succession.
But this, including plague touch, is so much more useful for Necromancer Secondaries than Necromancers themselves!

Right. So, they lose their stances I suppose, or their long range spells, they hurt themselves when they touch, and they really don't do any more damage than they did before. Actually, they're doing less damage, cause the vamps deal more than the other touches. It's not like energy was a huge problem for touchers in the first place, so to me, putting wallow's and touch of agony on their bar would just be gimping their survivability without helping them at all. Vamp Touch and Bite could already be spammed as fast as possible, so no, the build isn't even any faster with the new touches.

And plague touch still needs 4 levels in blood to even get 2 conditions off of the toucher. That means taking a level out of either blood or expertise. Worth the trade? Not sure, but if you call that a buff, it's only barely.

Razz Thom

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Three Feet Below Sea [LevL]

D/Mo

07 Feb 2008 at 19:34 - 264

mystic regen is bs. they should have just moved it to mysticism to stop abuse, now it kinda sucks all the way around. too expensive with a crappy return. better now to make d/mo and run restful breeze. at least with it you get 10 pips of regen.

Lagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 19:59 - 265

This page really is becoming my favorite monthly satire.

The game is becoming a parody of itself.

The Fox

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

07 Feb 2008 at 20:09 - 266

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkin

[skill]Vampiric Spirit[/skill] + Masochism , Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, you gain 1...3 Energy whenever you sacrifice Health. + [skill]Dark Aura[/skill] + [skill]Dark Pact[/skill] + [skill]Touch of Agony[/skill]

= deadly combo? 300 damage in less 1 second?

Touch of Agony is a skill, so it will not trigger Vampiric Spirit. Reguardless, I think more energy is the last thing they need to give to necros. The next skill change will probably nerf general necro energy management skills really hard, to compensate for these current energy decreases. BTW, I use three of the bluffed skills and these changes will transform me into a slaying machine... Thank you ANet but I would prefer to remain a mere moral, so that your nerf bat does not come down and smack my @$$ in the future.

EinherjarMx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Mexico

La Legion del Dragon [LD]

E/

07 Feb 2008 at 20:10 - 267

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the dark

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/..._HB_Mind_Blast

wanna bet wich one wins?
i'm on this build vs gaze.
this one rapes it.

lol

you realize that after getting gazed your net energy gain with mind blast is only 3 energy right? and yes, you can reapply all your enchants but the attunement if you just applied them, that would make you spend 35 nrg almost rending mind blast useless because of the lack of high energy

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 20:16 - 268

Quote:

OoB is now 9 energy at 1 costs (+8 gain) at ZERO blood magic for 20% life sac every 15 or less seconds.
This might bring it back as monk energy management.

The energy cost of OoB was never a problem. It's the 20% health sacrifice. It's still a dangerous skill to run on a monk.

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

07 Feb 2008 at 20:19 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The energy cost of OoB was never a problem. It's the 20% health sacrifice. It's still a dangerous skill to run on a monk.

that, and we finally got monk elites

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

07 Feb 2008 at 20:32 - 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The energy cost of OoB was never a problem. It's the 20% health sacrifice. It's still a dangerous skill to run on a monk.

But now you can easily offset sac with simple 5e heal.

Still not worth it with modern elites thou.

Akuma

IRC W H O R E

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australian Trolling Crew HQ, rightful leader and administration

Yale University [Snow]

W/

07 Feb 2008 at 20:40 - 271

YES I CAN NOW USE DARK PACT AND NOT RUN OUT OF ENERGY ITS QUITE A LOT OF DPs

twinkles21

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

Canada

Murdering All Malicious Enemies [MAME]

E/

07 Feb 2008 at 20:46 - 272

i noticed the Divine Healing change yesterday, omg i was so angry, theres like no good heal all spells now.

Davros Uitar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Fool Wolves

W/Mo

07 Feb 2008 at 21:19 - 273

Well I hanen't done it for months, but I tried the same ole Mo/D 55 build in GoK and I have to admit that I commend people for thinking when they changed mystic regen. I only tried it the once, still managed the usual run (out, down behind the shack, over to the gates and back around to the bosses) without dying. Mind you it had to be worked a lot harder and was slower (allowing more time to regen energy fully before taking on ceratin groups).

In a number of places you had to play chicken with your health bar, sitting and allowing the degen to waste away at your 55 HP before firing off any low energy or cycled skill to let the divine favour heal bonus top up your health bar.

The point that I would make is that they didnt kill off that standard build, but they made it hard work. That means that some people are going to have to get better skilled at this run. More importantly, it would be much harder to BOT the run because BOT program I assume will just be firing off spells based on recharge timings. I am thinking that BOT's are going to struggle as a result.

I do suspect that this is going to cut down the farming options outside GOK though, so there is going to a lot of searching for new farming builds.

As to the concept of shifting it to mysticism, that would kill off its use entirely for a large part of the farming population. I don't mind making it less bulletproof, making people work harder, and making trouble for BOT's, but killing it off entirely for anything other than D/Mo would be out and out nerf bat.

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

07 Feb 2008 at 23:00 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

The next skill change will probably nerf general necro energy management skills really hard, to compensate for these current energy decreases.

It's not like they have much in the way of general e-management in the first place...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

The main reason though is that earth tank elementalists abuse the skill but a Dervish should still be able to use it.

Wouldn't the "Earth tank" part be the problem, then, rather than Mystic Regen?

I suppose this is it for the Ruins of Morah run, though. Good thing all my characters got through long ago...

stretchs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK

08 Feb 2008 at 00:07 - 275

As for Mystic Regen ruining builds, I would disagree, the 55s will just go back to Mending and Healing Breeze, it takes 2 skills to correct this issue, but it just changes things back that direction, so often in 55 bars there is an optional spot for utility anyway, it will indeed slow the farms down though as that utility slot tended to speed up the farms for me as I tended to add more damage

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

08 Feb 2008 at 00:23 - 276

Take a look at this shot for the Mo/DThis page down a few posts

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

A/

08 Feb 2008 at 03:15 - 277

ther is a insane amount of vamp spirit touchers in ta now blood magic buff ftw

only bad nerf in here was pleak

poor gvg mezzys

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Nova Alliance

Me/

08 Feb 2008 at 03:45 - 278

Inpetitude. I've been playing an Ineptitude build of one fashion or another since the Fire islands, 3 games ago.

Thanks anet for making me take it up the back end after close to 3 years. First my Surge/Burn build got nerfed in the AoE update, and now this one.

Again, my deepest thanks for destroying my favorite build. I suck at interupting, energy denial is crap in PVE, so tell me what I'm supposed to do now?

Could you atleast freaking decrease the recharge time on it? It lasts for 4 seconds and recharges for 20.

Productivity

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Mo/

08 Feb 2008 at 04:09 - 279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Again, my deepest thanks for destroying my favorite build. I suck at interupting, energy denial is crap in PVE, so tell me what I'm supposed to do now?

Not play a skill based class?

Arcanis the Omnipotent

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Nova Alliance

Me/

08 Feb 2008 at 04:13 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Productivity

Not play a skill based class?

Yes, that's what I should do. Delete the first character I created because PVP people pissed and moaned again.