Guildwars: Pvp game or Pve game?

GW was originally designed as a team based pvp game that looks like a mmorpg. in the middle of development, anet smartened up to the fact that it's quite hard (or even impossible) to sell a completely pvp-based mmo, so they added the pve content. game launches, and all predictions came true: pve is for the masses, pvp for the few dedicated diehards. as such, GW shifted more and more to pvp.

if you want to see what happens to a purely pvp-based mmo, look at fury.

See and that kind of attitude is what pisses off the PVE people who don't want to be lumped in with the "mindless masses" that the PVPers seem to think exist.

Had to go back a few pages to find this:
And you know those aholes I was talking about? They arent in the PVP chat, they're here on this forum, in front of me... who could I possibly be talking about? As for your last few paragraphs. Quoted for BULLSHIT. The reason I dont PVP is because PVP sucks. It has always sucked, I have never found any joy in doing it, even if I win. It was just some stupid thing that was there as a distraction when I didn't have anything planned out to do in PVE.

So its not that I didnt have the ability to do it, its not that I didnt try to do it. It was that I thought the whole concept in a story based game to have competitive play was dumb, and I didnt want to continue supporting a dumb feature in an otherwise great game. Get the idea now?

PVP is not the end all. Stop pretending it is.

As for PVE being only there to grind after the story is done. What's grinding about doing something you enjoy doing with no real goal in the end? I'm playing areas because I want to be, not for some stupid title, some stupid farm or some idiotic weapon. So where does that fit into your logic?

That really just sounds like a PvPer calling out PvE players for being "wussies". Some people simply do not have the reaction time and creativity to be involved in PvP. Well actually, I don't really remember the last time there was a glimmer of creativity in PvP, after all thats what the "meta" shows. However I do not disagree with you on your point, just your reason. PvErs are less inclined to PvP due to the limited community/social ability of GW. Many do not go on forums, many do not play GW outside of launching the .exe to start playing. And lets face it, finding a substantial guild in GW thats active and willing to take a new comer into PvP is a rare chance and half the time it wouldn't even work out. I personally have not been able to find a steady PvP guild for some time, close to a year and a half ever since my first guild quit around the time Nightfall came out. The forums don't help that much either, there simply isn't a demand for n00bs to be taken under the wings of "PvP pros". Now it would be great if those n00bs could maybe band together and say "Hey no one else wants us, lets try this PvP stuff out", but we all know that never really happens. The majority of the GW player basis is made up of solo players H/H who pug when they have to, and maybe have 2-3 people they're familiar with on their friend list. The PvPers are the people with friends they've known for sometime online or IRL, the people they've been with since day 1 in GW, and if not theres sure to be some group in your guild that knows each other better then most GW players know each other. Point being, I doubt many PvErs will ever have the chance of meeting enough people to create their own guild to do PvP, and the people who already do PvP -already- have their comfort zone that they dare not step out of.

Combine these issues with the slowly bleeding community of GW, riddled with players who dwindle for only about an hour once a week hoping to find some aspect to re-interest them in a game they once loved... And well you got your real answer. Save the "learning curve" speech for games like FPS's and what not, for crying out we're all clicking 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 on a keyboard.

Edit: To further elaborate my point, I am not calling GW a game that does not require skill. Although it does lack when compared to many other games that are truly meant to stress the ability of gamers. By skill of course I refer to ability to perceive and react to the actions within the game you're playing, quickly and efficiently. Which is why in GW some people play Monks better or some play Warriors better, albeit the difference only comes down to timing and knowledge of the profession. But this is outside of what the meta game of PvP is known for (and lets face it, as much as people wish it wasn't the meta is the majority)- anyways the meta game is known for "1,2,3" spikes, and what not. In short that form of PvP is almost just as brain dead as PvE. If PvP were still like how it was in beta and release, with balanced teams duking it out with balanced teams, then it would truly have been the bread winner for GW. But as many of us already know, its slowly died out and PvE has become larger. Its funny many people argue that PvP is the true purpose of GW, or PvE is yadda yadda but many ignore the facts at hand. PvE came out on top in the end, somewhere along the line PvP screwed up and people chose the other side.

Right about the time a certain attitude which affects some members of this forum became prevalent in HA...

Damnit Wulf...

Anyways. I would like to note and reinforce a few points made in this discussion for all those people who believe that Mr. Ear has permanently laid to rest every conceivable objection to PvP and has made the flawless argument to turn everyone in Guild Wars into GvG players.

First of all, a point brought up by Nevin, which is in fact the single largest bar to widely-played GvG in all of Guild Wars. That point is:

It is just about flat impossible to find a decent GvG guild in this game.

Sure, the typical response is "Go join XoO until you stop sucking," but ye know? That doesn't work for a great many people who don't read this forum and thus know what Xen of Onslaught is. And the back half of that statement is the true bar to a good eighty percent of Guild Wars players ever experiencing their first GvG match, and for damn near one hundred percent of those that are lucky enough to even get one to ever get good enough to do this regularly.

"...until you stop sucking."

That phrase has killed more potential GvG players than any other argument combined. Let's see, how did Mr. Ear put it? "I think anyone who plays this game and slags pvp probably just never gave it the chance it deserves because they couldn't stand being bested by other players and went back to pve where that could never happen and they could feel reassured in knowing that others could never accuse them of being worse players in pve because they have fow armor and chaos gloves..."

Guess what? I tried it as best I could. I'd love to give GvG a real go, play it whenever I have a chance to, and get better. But people just like Ear, and all the other GvG players too concerned with their Guild's rank and their own personal fame and self-image, make that flatly impossible. Currently, I've only played a few matches of GvG with a guild filled with people who knew the game better than me. After about four matches, I think it was, I got "You suck. GTFO, we don't want any flaming noobs in our guild ruining our rank."

That right there is why virtually no one plays GvG compared to the huge number of PvE players, and in fact is the flip side of the coin for the other reason that nobody bothers trying to break into GvG these days. There is no learning curve in GvG - either you're already a superb GvG player, or you simply can't find a guild. Why? Wait for it...

Because most high-end GvG players are overwhelmingly elitist bastards.

Yup. I went there. Most GvG players consider only top 100 GvG to be the true game of Guild Wars, and most top 100 guilds would rather disband and have to earn their rank all over again than let an earnest newcomer who kinda sucks but is willing to learn foul them up for a while. Again as has been pointed out, those sorts of guilds end up a very close-knit group who refuse to let others into their guild, even as auxiliaries, to mess with. I understand that, my guild is largely the same way as we'd all known each other for years prior to the game's release. However, it's not very conducive to forming a cohesive team, is it?

GvG in Guild Wars is marvelously complex and intricate, requiring both tactical and strategic mastery rather than simply a fast trigger finger in order to survive, let alone excel. I have no doubt that a truly good GvG match is its own reward, but can you honestly say that anyone who cannot find their way past the virtually insurmountable roadblocks to a good GvG guild, the people who simply turn away rather than try and batter past the true hatred that a high-end GvG player feels for anyone who isn't a high-end GvG player, are undeserving of their own ways of playing the game? That if you're not willing to face vicious abuse and repeated rejection from people who were often just luckier than yourself, not better, you don't deserve to play?

Amazing how that works, huh? This game's competitive element is truly violent in its rejection of new players, and yet that very same element claims that the only way to truly experience Guild Wars is through GvG. I do so wish that you bastards would make up your minds already. Are you willing to deal with rookies and train new players? If not, then don't rip on PvE or less-organized PvP, as it's the only place left for people who tried to join the GvG game, but were thrown out on their ear by the exact same people who are now telling them to stop being lazy and play GvG!!

You wanna know the irony? I do GvG. We GvG for fun. It's HA I can't stand, for reasons which should now be obvious.

Some members on this board are perfect example of your average HA "player"

PS, feel free to replace "player" with any word you choose. I certainly do...

o rly laserlight? i get yelled and and called bad right now playing wit high champ ppl in gvg, but the one thing that separates me from the ppl who quit is that i have absolutely no problem enduring it. why? it motivates me to suck less. if other ppl had that kind of motivation, im pretty sure they will be able to play.

So. You have every weapon. Every PvE title. Every armor. What do you do now? GW PvE does not lend itself to replay value.

You PvP. And when you win everything, like EviL did, you get off of GW.

I'm not flaming you. I'm pointing out factual contradictions to your posts.

And for all of you saying that you received criticism? Criticism makes you better, points out what you're doing wrong.

I wish I had recorded the vent chatter of people screaming at me. It was well worth it, made me a player that pulled his weight on the team.

I'm sorry I'm not as pefect as you

I agree that it is difficult to get into a decent PvP guild. The reason why some people make it though is simple - they are crazy. They are crazy enough to start from zero having no PvP friends. They are crazy enough to pug in HA for months with a mesmer, while everyone is farming fame with IWAY. They are crazy enough to endure all the BS the teenagers throw at you on Vent. They are crazy enough to spend hours to improve their skill. Eventually, they gain rank, meet some nice people, and have lots of fun, but it takes a significant amount of dedication and time to reach that point. Looking back at it now, probably, I would not have done it again, but I am glad that I did because GvGing and HAing with some good people I met was one of the most exciting times of my GW experience.

was meant to be relatively pvp oriented, thats what imo differentiates it from other games. so id say 90% pvp 10% pve. pve = make ur chars look uber

Dude, the problem isn't being screamed at for doing something wrong, which I can take, no problem. I used to work for a pair of Iranians, man can they shout insults . The arrogant attitude of PVP (HA) players in general is my issue. Again, this only apllies to HA and more specifically, HA pugs.
They aren't fun, they're boring and some are actually retarded. I don't tolerate that shit in real life, so why would I in my relaxation time? To be "better"? Than who exactly? And at what? Playing a flipping video game? Please, SO not worth the effort.

EviL didn't quit because they won everything, they quit because they had military service.

Oh I know. But you should read their interviews. They said they set out to win, and they've done it. Some of them still log on rarely, but their inactivity shows that they're essentially done with the game. Yes, it was a generalization I made.

People actually only play PvP? I bought this game because a friend of mine said I'd be good at the PvE of it... I rarely do anything PvP related.

Except that I dont care about titles, or weapons or getting every armor. And I still find reasons to play PVE. So that kinda contradicts the rest of your arguments, that were supposed to contradict me.

When Guild Wars was first released back in 2004, I started out as a Mesmer, getting skills and armors. Then later I made a Warrior and a Ranger and did the same for them. After two months, I managed to get UAX from PvE and some RA along with all the bonuses on my Mesmer. Occassionally, I would do FoW with guildies or Ettin farms. I would say at that point, it was 80% PvE and 20% PvP.

By about a month or two later, Sorrow's furnace was released, so I started doing all the quests there. It was fun that many people were there and all. However, after doing PvE so repeatedly, despite the different characters I use to play with, I had to go on with PvP. In PvP, GvG is way too time-consuming, and it required several other factors to maintain one guild's reputations, so I was never into that. However, HA is more enjoyable in contrast, but without ranks, there's no way to play in HA without any connections, and let's say a PvE guild doesn't function well in HA. So I went Iway and got myself rank 6, and of course, the people I know believed I can't run any other builds, but I proved them to be wrong when I ran a fire Elementalist. Also Factions was announced to be released in 2005, so I saved up about 300k from farmings. So I would say that was 20% PvE and 80% PvP.

Later, when Factions was released. I managed to beat it with my three characters within one week, and I made a Ritualist. Later titles are released, and so I started to go for a few here and there. I went to Random Arena a bit to collect factions, and when I reached UAX and such, I found myself to be in a similar situation, which there is not much to do in PvE. Before I know it, Nightfall was announced to be released soon, so I went and save about 300k. I'd say it was 90% PvE and 10% PvP.

When Nightfall was released, it was my senior year, which is the only year that counts for post-secondary admission here, so I mostly played PvE as it doesn't take too much time. I also made a Dervish. I saved about 600k by the end of Nightfall, but I spent 100k on a miniature Kuuravang. I'd say it was 95% PvE and 5% PvP.

Now with the release of Eye of the North, it seems that it is best to choose a main character and spend all the money on that one character. I'm still busy with life, so I only play PvE at this point. I'd say 100% PvE.

In all honesty, when comes to PvP, it really depends on what profession you play. Some people like to play certain ways, and some do not. PvP is quite interesting and fun if you do have the time to play. Nonetheless, some people who started out late do not have UAX or the connections to find groups, and so they usually find themselves to be isolated in PvP, and thus hating that aspect of the game. Unlike PvP, PvE is more a relaxed gaming, which people can just start at any point and beat pretty much all of it whenever they choose to. It isn't boring at all, although it can be a pain to farm repeatedly and rapidly. Consequently, I believe that whether Guild Wars is a PvP or a PvE game doesn't really depend on what the developers have intended to do with the game, but instead, it depends on the players themselves, and how they choose to play it.

That's a very lame excuse. You go on to say that there's no creativity - so why are you concerned? One of my friends often misses interrupts on 1-2s casts on <100 ping, and they're in a solid top 100 guild. Reaction times aren't important for every role and class as long as you can pay attention to the game.

I take my previous statement back. I think it's 100% PvE now. What's left of organized PvP has been reduced to beating heroes in HA or farming archers in GvG. When it gets to the point where monks say they'd rather keep a footman up over a warrior, then you know there's something wrong.

And the members that log in every once in a while (bloodlight, woonori, soul wedding, de vil) have said that aTs dont interest them. one would suspect a lack of competition and balance had a bearing on their attitude too.