Don't want to from with a secondary profession
behling
so im doing the secondary profession quest now. in prophecy. i tried all of them, but i can't make up my mind on wats gd for my warrior. because they only gave a few skills so imho i tink its not enuff when making a big decision. i need all the pros help here. i play most mmorpgs solo and pve only. thx would like to hear your reason of selection. thx.
Savio
You can change your secondary later, so your choice isn't permanent.
Stormlord Alex
Good stuff, skills to look at, and stuff not to do...
Monk - effectively cover's the warrior's weakness - shutdown hexes and conditions. Look at condition and hex removal spells, or a reuseable resurrect skill. [skill]mend ailment[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
Do not use the healing spells - they're energy and attribute hungry, and frankly suck compared to Healing signet.
Elementalist - adds offensive punch to the warrior. Look for damage buffs and utility spells.[skill]conjure flame[/skill][skill]shock[/skill][skill]grasping earth[/skill]
Don't bother with damaging spells like [skill=text]fire storm[/skill] or [skill=text]aftershock[/skill], as they need large investments of energy and attributes, and are often weaker than just hitting things with your weapon. Defensive spells are 'ok-ish', but [skill=text]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] is stronger in that it benefits the whole party too.
Ranger - not much of real interest here. [skill=text]antidote signet[/skill] is ok, but other condition removals are generaly stronger.
Really, /R is for fun, for the hell of it - fighting with a pet or using [skill=text]apply poison[/skill] on your weapon. Not as effective as possible, but can be fun.
Mesmer - again, little to see. Hex Breaker is possibly the best skill, for defense against hexes (in a recent buff, it now no longer kills your stance) [skill]hex breaker[/skill]
There are interruption skills and defensive skills too, but essentially - what the warrior already has is more suited, "Watch Yourself!" and Savage Slash > Power Spike and Physical Resistance.
Necromancer - interesting. Condition removal skills, as well as some funky melee-centered hexes. [skill]plague touch[/skill][skill]mark of pain[/skill][skill]barbs[/skill] The hexes are expensive for a warrior though, so it's best if you have a necro bring them instead so you can concetrate on hitting stuff (in case you ain't guessed, in Guild Wars - warriors kill things as a priority).
As for the do-nots - don't bother with Blood Magic lifestealing crap, it's expensive on your energy and overall really weak. And... simpy ignore Death Magic. The minion spells on a warrior are terrible.
There's also /A, /Rt, /D and /P but... they're not Prophecies so it's no issue to you yet.
Personally... You can't go wrong with W/Mo. The cleansing spells make up for the hench monk's decided lack of hex and condi removers, and if things go bad you can run away and rescue the party with Rebirth.
And you can change your secondary later, too.
Monk - effectively cover's the warrior's weakness - shutdown hexes and conditions. Look at condition and hex removal spells, or a reuseable resurrect skill. [skill]mend ailment[/skill][skill]holy veil[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
Do not use the healing spells - they're energy and attribute hungry, and frankly suck compared to Healing signet.
Elementalist - adds offensive punch to the warrior. Look for damage buffs and utility spells.[skill]conjure flame[/skill][skill]shock[/skill][skill]grasping earth[/skill]
Don't bother with damaging spells like [skill=text]fire storm[/skill] or [skill=text]aftershock[/skill], as they need large investments of energy and attributes, and are often weaker than just hitting things with your weapon. Defensive spells are 'ok-ish', but [skill=text]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] is stronger in that it benefits the whole party too.
Ranger - not much of real interest here. [skill=text]antidote signet[/skill] is ok, but other condition removals are generaly stronger.
Really, /R is for fun, for the hell of it - fighting with a pet or using [skill=text]apply poison[/skill] on your weapon. Not as effective as possible, but can be fun.
Mesmer - again, little to see. Hex Breaker is possibly the best skill, for defense against hexes (in a recent buff, it now no longer kills your stance) [skill]hex breaker[/skill]
There are interruption skills and defensive skills too, but essentially - what the warrior already has is more suited, "Watch Yourself!" and Savage Slash > Power Spike and Physical Resistance.
Necromancer - interesting. Condition removal skills, as well as some funky melee-centered hexes. [skill]plague touch[/skill][skill]mark of pain[/skill][skill]barbs[/skill] The hexes are expensive for a warrior though, so it's best if you have a necro bring them instead so you can concetrate on hitting stuff (in case you ain't guessed, in Guild Wars - warriors kill things as a priority).
As for the do-nots - don't bother with Blood Magic lifestealing crap, it's expensive on your energy and overall really weak. And... simpy ignore Death Magic. The minion spells on a warrior are terrible.
There's also /A, /Rt, /D and /P but... they're not Prophecies so it's no issue to you yet.
Personally... You can't go wrong with W/Mo. The cleansing spells make up for the hench monk's decided lack of hex and condi removers, and if things go bad you can run away and rescue the party with Rebirth.
And you can change your secondary later, too.
behling
hmm ic. im primarly going solo so. need to be self sustainable. other then monk class is there any other class that has skill to heal self in battle?
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by behling
hmm ic. im primarly going solo so. need to be self sustainable. other then monk class is there any other class that has skill to heal self in battle?
Warrior.
Healing Signet is all you need.
and for the most part - going completely solo is hard; GW PvE was designed to be played as a team game, and you get beat down hard when alone in areas designed for 6/8-man parties.
Healing Signet is all you need.
and for the most part - going completely solo is hard; GW PvE was designed to be played as a team game, and you get beat down hard when alone in areas designed for 6/8-man parties.
Marty Silverblade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Personally... You can't go wrong with W/Mo.
Heh, yes you can, really badly. Seen [skill=text]Mending[/skill] lately?
Btw, if you're going to use the skill popup things in paragraphs/text, it's better to use {skill=text}{/skill} instead so it doesn't distort the lines.
@ OP, I've got some stuff about this in the sticky, take a look at that (or about any other matter, really).
Btw, if you're going to use the skill popup things in paragraphs/text, it's better to use {skill=text}{/skill} instead so it doesn't distort the lines.
@ OP, I've got some stuff about this in the sticky, take a look at that (or about any other matter, really).
behling
oaky guys i decided to go with a elementist cos her skill are quite cool. but now i can't seem to find the attribute to level up my aura of restoration
Dr Strangelove
Aura of restoration is an energy storage skill, which is the elementalist primary attribute. As a warrior, you cannot put points in it.
However, that's fine, because it's really not a skill you want to be using anyway. [wiki]healing signet[/wiki] is all the healing you should ever need. There will always be a monk behind you too, so don't try to pack an entire party's worth of skills onto your bar.
To mention it again, Guild Wars is not balanced for solo play, and you will find it almost impossible to do so as the game moves on. Focus on builds that do a job well. If it seems like another class can use a skill better (like healing prayers), let that other class do it. As a warrior, your job is to kill stuff. Everything else is someone else's job.
However, that's fine, because it's really not a skill you want to be using anyway. [wiki]healing signet[/wiki] is all the healing you should ever need. There will always be a monk behind you too, so don't try to pack an entire party's worth of skills onto your bar.
To mention it again, Guild Wars is not balanced for solo play, and you will find it almost impossible to do so as the game moves on. Focus on builds that do a job well. If it seems like another class can use a skill better (like healing prayers), let that other class do it. As a warrior, your job is to kill stuff. Everything else is someone else's job.
Crom The Pale
Elementalist is a perfect secondary for a war. I can imagine you feel that -40 armor penalty with healing signet is really bad but its not. Wars can easily bost there armor, especially war/eles, to counter/offset the -40. Add to that your really not going to use it in the heat of battle most times since your going to have a monk with you to take care of healing.
In GW, unlike many other games, the warrior deals out massive dmg rather than just walking around soaking it up.
In GW, unlike many other games, the warrior deals out massive dmg rather than just walking around soaking it up.
Trvth Jvstice
I recently changed my secondary to Paragon and it seems to have been a good choice. If you only have Prophecies, I advise taking Monk as your secondary until you've had a chance to try some of the more difficult quests and missions. Just never, ever try to be a healer. The Monk secondary is for condition/hex removal and rebirth. Later in the game the monks you'll be playing with will (hopefully) be good enough at their job to take of that for you. At that point, I'd look into changing your secondary to one of the other professions.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
In GW, unlike many other games, the warrior deals out massive dmg rather than just walking around soaking it up. You make it out like that's not one of the roles that the warrior can take.
It is.
With tactics warriors can very effectively tank, if that's what your party needs. Always be prepared to adapt to your party and mission/quest. Having one set build to always use is a bad idea. Diversity is win.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
You make it out like that's not one of the roles that the warrior can take.
It is. Warriors can also be healers, but it's a stupid idea, just like tanking is.
It is. Warriors can also be healers, but it's a stupid idea, just like tanking is.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
Warriors can also be healers, but it's a stupid idea, just like tanking is.
If your ignorant enough to think those two are comparable, then I'm not sure you've even played a warrior before.
Warriors only have 20ish energy, of course they are not able to effectively anyone other then themselves.
Warriors are the highest (tied) overall armor and the highest armor against phy. in the game.
They have an entire line of attributes (tactics) used almost completely for self preservation and even some def. str. skills.
Their alliance pve only skill and several of their natural skills are made to protect the whole team as well.
They are meant to carry a shield.
If you don't think warriors can tank, then your mistaken.
If you don't think A-net intended for warrior to be capable of tanking after these, and many other in game, examples.... then there is no hope for you.
Warriors only have 20ish energy, of course they are not able to effectively anyone other then themselves.
Warriors are the highest (tied) overall armor and the highest armor against phy. in the game.
They have an entire line of attributes (tactics) used almost completely for self preservation and even some def. str. skills.
Their alliance pve only skill and several of their natural skills are made to protect the whole team as well.
They are meant to carry a shield.
If you don't think warriors can tank, then your mistaken.
If you don't think A-net intended for warrior to be capable of tanking after these, and many other in game, examples.... then there is no hope for you.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
Quote:
Tanking is only considered silly if your the kind of player that thinks every class is limited to only a few skills from the arsenal that are available, and only one build is viable to PvE farm. You happen to be one of those players, so I guess it makes sense. |
If you don't think warriors can tank, then your mistaken. If you don't think A-net intended for warrior to be capable of tanking after these, and many other in game, examples.... then there is no hope for you. He knows warriors can tank. Just like eles can spam Flare with dual attunes, or monks can use Glyph of Renewal/Divine Spirit to spam Orison of Healing. However tanking, just like those other two ideas, is a silly thing to do. Alicendre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
You make it out like that's not one of the roles that the warrior can take.
It is. With tactics warriors can very effectively tank, if that's what your party needs. Yes they can, but usually a Paragon with defensive buffs > a single tank. IMO you should start looking at PvX wiki to see what builds can look like. (yes I know, I'm gonna get flamed for that, but at least the builds there make you know what you have to do) Take your inspiration from them, and when you get the hang of it, customize your own.  If you don't know what to take, get /Mo for the hard rez, and put most of your points in your primary profession.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
He knows warriors can tank. Just like eles can spam Flare with dual attunes, or monks can use Glyph of Renewal/Divine Spirit to spam Orison of Healing. However tanking, just like those other two ideas, is a silly thing to do. |
It just sucks that you and your cronies always try to herd new players like cattle into your boring cage of prefabricated thought.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alicendre
Yes they can, but usually a Paragon with defensive buffs > a single tank.
IMO you should start looking at PvX wiki to see what builds can look like. (yes I know, I'm gonna get flamed for that, but at least the builds there make you know what you have to do) Take your inspiration from them, and when you get the hang of it, customize your own. If you don't know what to take, get /Mo for the hard rez, and put most of your points in your primary profession. PvX is a good and helpful website for some, and the worst thing that ever happen to GW for others. It turned every player into the same person and every team into the same elitist, ignorant, group of pugs that run rampant in this game currently.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
Tanking is only considered silly if your the kind of player that thinks every class is limited to only a few skills from the arsenal that are available, and only one build is viable to PvE farm. You happen to be one of those players, so I guess it makes sense.
It just sucks that you and your cronies always try to herd new players like cattle into your boring cage of prefabricated thought. Actually, tanking is only considered viable if you and your team is bad at GW, and fails at prot/kiting/passive defense and imbagons. A lot of PuGs do, though they've got ursan now.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
It just sucks that you and your cronies always try to herd new players like cattle into your boring cage of prefabricated thought.
Players are free to play tanks; we aren't going to stop them. However, we aren't going to tell them that tanking is any good either.
Stormlord Alex
I have a feeling this thread is heading for Lockville...
well, better get my lulz while it's open ^_~
Pyro maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
PvX is a good and helpful website for some, and the worst thing that ever happen to GW for others. It turned every player into the same person and every team into the same elitist, ignorant, group of pugs that run rampant in this game currently. apart from some nice PvE builds, the builds are terrible. Don't bother looking in the PvP section ;-)
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
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That's an ignorant statement. You seem to be good at those. You only consider one build viable for PvE. Your so hard headed it hurts.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Savio
Players are free to play tanks; we aren't going to stop them. However, we aren't going to tell them that tanking is any good either. But you insist on telling them that your opinions=fact....I detect fallacies.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro maniac
apart from some nice PvE builds, the builds are terrible.
Don't bother looking in the PvP section ;-) For the PvP builds, the standard Cripshot and Shockaxe kinda templates are fine, then again - near enough everyone in PvP knows them builds already, so it's hard to screw up with them. and @ Flem o okai lulz
Dr Strangelove
All you cookie cutter noobs think warriors are only good for dealing damage, but I'm a special unique snowflake, so I use my warrior as a spirit spammer. I'm so nonconformist and cool.
Yichi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
@ Flem
o okai lulz You haven't learned to just give up this fight and just sit back and laugh yet? I mean honestly, it's not worth trying to give some people actual useful information anymore...
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yichi
You haven't learned to just give up this fight and just sit back and laugh yet? I mean honestly, it's not worth trying to give some people actual useful information anymore...
Pretending to give a damn to see him respond gets so many more laughs though
Cherng Butter
Just because Warriors have [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill][skill]Riposte[/skill] doesn't mean that they should use them.
I did Slaver's the other day with 6 other alliance members. We had 2 sins, 1 warrior, 1 paragon, and 1 ranger. No tanks, we just ran 3 copies of Save Yourselves! and an Orders Dervish and tore through things. It wasn't planned or anything, but it was a hell of a lot more fun and effective than me sitting still with Obsidian Flesh or something. Yes, I ran the "cookie-cutter" SY! Dragon Slash build. Is that the only thing I could have run? No. Triple Chop, Cleave, W/D Scythe, blah blah. As long as I'm ripping through things, I've fulfilled my role. Honestly, just run in ahead of your teammates with Prot spirit and SoA on you, and you're fine.
Crom The Pale
Tanking is a style of play, not the best or most effective but it does work and is rather simple to do.
Any class can tank, but would you really want to bring an elemental/monk that was running earth/healing with, [skill]armor of earth[/skill][skill]kinetic armor[/skill][skill]stoneflesh aura[/skill][skill]ward against melee[/skill][skill]heal party[/skill][skill]Healing Whisper[/skill][skill]word of healing[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]??? Alicendre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
All you cookie cutter noobs think warriors are only good for dealing damage, but I'm a special unique snowflake, so I use my warrior as a spirit spammer. I'm so nonconformist and cool.
You're a noob, I have teh l337 tactic: I run a bar without any skill and /dance in front of mobs with my pwnsome undies.
But don't tell anyone cos that's gonna be the new cookie-cutter!!!1
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
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What a sad, little, trend-following man you are.
Quote: Originally Posted by Cherng Butter Just because Warriors have [skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill][skill]Riposte[/skill] doesn't mean that they should use them.
lol, why not use them again?
Quote:
Its the truth.|
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Tanking is a style of play, not the best or most effective but it does work and is rather simple to do.
So your telling me that a 55/SS dual farm isn't effective? It's a two man party doing the job it is meant to take 8 to do. That counts as tanking, btw.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
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It happens to be tank setups that are stuck with single build structures. A good player can make a viable team out of any mix of professions whereas a tanking setup alienates whole professions let alone buillds.
To the OP:
I suggest you ignore anybody who speaks well about the viability of tanking. You have chosen a warrior and are able to inflict serious damage to your foes. Thats the way warriors where intended to be played by the game developers and its also the most enjoyable.
Killing shit > standing still taking hits.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Flem
So your telling me that a 55/SS dual farm isn't effective? It's a two man party doing the job it is meant to take 8 to do. That counts as tanking, btw.
That counts as farming, not regular gameplay. Farming builds should never be reffered to in any regular game play discussion as they can make skills as bad as mending effective. Farming involves tricking AI and is only done in smaller numbers for the chance of greater loot. If you get the same rare item/money drop ratio from a full team then most people would give up solo/duo as an 8 man team is faster.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
It happens to be tank setups that are stuck with single build structures. A good player can make a viable team out of any mix of professions whereas a tanking setup alienates whole professions let alone buillds. To the OP: I suggest you ignore anybody who speaks well about the viability of tanking. You have chosen a warrior and are able to inflict serious damage to your foes. Thats the way warriors where intended to be played by the game developers and its also the most enjoyable. Killing shit > standing still taking hits. |
Pretty much every class is completely capable of dealing nice damage. Only a few class combos are effective at tanking.
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That counts as farming, not regular gameplay. Farming builds should never be reffered to in any regular game play discussion as they can make skills as bad as mending effective. Farming involves tricking AI and is only done in smaller numbers for the chance of greater loot. If you get the same rare item/money drop ratio from a full team then most people would give up solo/duo as an 8 man team is faster.
That combo may be considered farming, but it can be used it a multitude of PvE play situations. If a team of two can complete of mission instead of 8, do they no longer count as completeing the mission just because it's a "farming" build? But, thats beside the point. Having a tank (any of the various forms of it) is a very effective way to play PvE. That might not be your style, fine. Don't claim that it's not effective or widely used, because it is. GW has always had tanking as a part of game play. Oh, and your statement of "killing shit>standing still taking hit".....what is that even supposed to mean? No matter what icons are pictured, it all comes down to pressing buttons labeled 1-8. If your team gets through what ever part of the game your trying for, then that's the goal. It doesnt matter if you inflict the final blow or deal the most damage. It's a team effort and if you can keep your team safe by having the enemies waste their time on you, then job well done. Warriors can tank, deal damage, shutdown, pressure, be a runner, and dance like a pimp. Why do you box yourselves in to one little aspect? If that's what you want to do, fine. But quit trying to confine every new player into the same little chamber. This is why warriors typically have the "meat head" reputation. You guys think so 2-D.
Trvth Jvstice
A couple of years ago, when a Warrior could fill his bar with stances and hold an item to draw aggro, tanking was a completely viable and easy way to beat some difficult areas of the game using only 3-4 players. This was when the term "Tank" became popular in Guild Wars. But when A Net stopped that draw aggro effect, most people have (slowly) learned that a Warrior is much more useful in a team because of his ability to stand in the front lines and deal out the highest dps and aoe dmg possible in the game.
With the skill, "Save Yourselves!" A Net has created a way for Warriors to once again draw aggro, but now they don't have to holding an item. A warrior (or two)spamming SY has the lowest amount of armor on the team and therefore seems like the squishiest target to PVE baddies. They can draw aggro and still whale away at the enemies, aka killing sh*t. Why, when you can use the old trick of drawing aggro AND do huge amounts of damage, would you nerf yourself and ONLY be a tank?
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
A couple of years ago, when a Warrior could fill his bar with stances and hold an item to draw aggro, tanking was a completely viable and easy way to beat some difficult areas of the game using only 3-4 players. This was when the term "Tank" became popular in Guild Wars. But when A Net stopped that draw aggro effect, most people have (slowly) learned that a Warrior is much more useful in a team because of his ability to stand in the front lines and deal out the highest dps and aoe dmg possible in the game.
With the skill, "Save Yourselves!" A Net has created a way for Warriors to once again draw aggro, but now they don't have to holding an item. A warrior (or two)spamming SY has the lowest amount of armor on the team and therefore seems like the squishiest target to PVE baddies. They can draw aggro and still whale away at the enemies, aka killing sh*t. Why, when you can use the old trick of drawing aggro AND do huge amounts of damage, would you nerf yourself and ONLY be a tank? The oldest tank trick in the book, let the tank go and piss everyone off and then force them to stay close (with skills like grasping earth). With 1 person with all def. and everyone else with all damage skills (cept for monks of course), the huddled group of enemies drops almost instantly. It's fun, fast, and effective. That's just one example, be creative.
Yukito Kunisaki
Actually Flem, the GW makers ARE the most creative. Wars are NOT intended to be shields despite the AL Almighty ranking they have.
In GW, the Warrior is the class that can afford NOT to be meat shield and out damage Casters due to combination of Armor ignoring DoT and Deep Wound conditioning. Boxing newbies into the 'GW warriors don't tank, they do as much damage as they can how they can' is actually a smart thing for Savio and others to be teaching. My gripe is that Warriors are being told we can't keep single skills on our skill bars to help us do more damage. [no warrior skill I know does more damage than barbs at 10 curses. Can a necro do it? Yeah, better, but the pugs I go with do NOT bring 16 curses Barbs so there ;P I don't spam it, but for those annoying bosses that show up, it's a Godsend] If you want to be a meatshield, for God Sakes get OUT of Guild Wars and play EVERY OTHER FUSKING MMO OUT THERE WITH MELEE FIGHTER'S WHO COULDN'T HURT SHIT AT LEVEL 999... Here in GW, us in yo face types get rewarded with dead bodies at our feet faster than other classes usually. The secondary utility determines what it is you'd do to make situations worse for your foes. A warrior that kills is greater than one who can't. I'm for the tank that survives second and kills first... Priority should be: Killing Survival Boost damage [ala barbs, Well of Ruin, Rend enchantments, etc.] KILL MR. WARRIOR KILL YOU MUST!
Trvth Jvstice
@ Flem, If you can name ONE area of the game where a Warrior or any other profession acting solely as a pure tank, would be easier to beat, then I believe your argument would have more credibility. In other words, name an area, (it doesn't even have to be a whole Mission or quest) where a player only using self defensive stances or skills, that can be beaten easier than if that player were using their best attack, heal, or enemy shutdown skills.
Yichi
that won't happen because honestly, there aren't any areas that require you to tank and be more effective than actually doing damage with a compitent team build.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice
@ Flem, If you can name ONE area of the game where a Warrior or any other profession acting solely as a pure tank, would be easier to beat, then I believe your argument would have more credibility. In other words, name an area, (it doesn't even have to be a whole Mission or quest) where a player only using self defensive stances or skills, that can be beaten easier than if that player were using their best attack, heal, or enemy shutdown skills.
Actually, my argument is that ALL areas can be handled, at least, EQUALLY as effective as a SY build.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
Actually, my argument is that ALL areas can be handled, at least, EQUALLY as effective as a SY build.
And you're wrong as completion times and success rates for areas are universally better for good non-tank groups than for good tank groups.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
And you're wrong as completion times and success rates for areas are universally better for good non-tank groups than for good tank groups.
Please show me these statistics.
Tank groups allow for mobs to practically be instant killed when huddled, require no downtime, and have a wide selection of possible party members and classed to be used. How is that inefficient?
Savio
The fastest UW, FoW, DoA, etc. runs don't involve tanks. Care to show me evidence that supports tanking?
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