Mes or Rit?
Shuuda
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
And in PvE, it is not just a matter of you completing the mission. It is you, completing the mission in the shortest time. Would a good PUG complete the mission with a mesmer, probably yes. But if replacing the mesmer with a nuker or a necro is more efficient and enables the group to complete it in a shorter amount of time, with fewer deaths, then the mesmer gets kicked.
Because of the reason above, and mesmers are already underpowered in PvE relative to the other classes, I would say ahead with SoI + PvE skills for mesmers if it makes you complete the missions faster. It is just dumb to gimp yourself further by not using PvE skills when the other PvE stronger classes are already using them. It is up to you.
- PuG is just another term for "Bad players you don't know yet" Play with H/H or guildies, or trusted people if it's THAT important to you.
- Meh, PuGs tend rushing things... another reason they suck.
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SoI can be used for more than just PvE skills.
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Again not true. Taking your example of Energy Storage, I can also use other energy management skills (e.g. GOLE) from my secondary class to help with the energy issues even without the natural advantage of Energy Storage.
Regardless, the Majority of Ele skills are better cast by eles.
Monsters are stupid. PvP also has enviormental effects in places. In GvG you have to fight 8 smart players.
I think it expands my options rather than limit it, but that can be a matter of opinion. Having level 16 illusion for a SoI build is worth it for me. If you have a problem keeping yourself alive in PvE then use minor, if you dont then you can use superior. I would gladly trade in some health for any ability to kill faster in PvE since I hardly die.
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It is up to you
I decided to try and learn the profession. And since the only way to do that is PvP, and since in PvP there are no retarded PvE skills, I simply don't use them, even in PvE.
Lishy
I find it HILARIOUS how people insist that mesmer sucks.
Well, for one, I thinkt hey do NOT suck. Want -8 degen on enemy mob with a lot of energy management,interrupting, and melee enemy's "spontaneously" blowing up?gogogo! Want to interrupt the enemy?gogogo! Want to deal armor ignoring damage?gogogo! Want a super runner making use of a continuous use of dash as well as other overpowered running skills?gogogo! Want to pressure with hexes?gogogo! Want to solo farm?gogogo! Want to farm bosses?gogogo! However, it is all a matter of taste to what profession is better.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Shuuda
- PuG is just another term for "Bad players you don't know yet" Play with H/H or guildies, or trusted people if it's THAT important to you. - Meh, PuGs tend rushing things... another reason they suck. |
That doesn't matter. We know they suck, but still you want to be the HERO of the group and being a squishy with poor insignia choices offered by the game doesn't help.
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I decided to try and learn the profession. And since the only way to do that is PvP, and since in PvP there are no retarded PvE skills, I simply don't use them, even in PvE.
And SoI is a mesmer skill. Boxing up the profession to stereotypes of interrupts and energy denial (which is quite weak in PvE) is cookie-cutter mentality. What would really be challenging, is to come up with a PvE mesmer build that can beat the others! Complete the mission in a shorter amount of time, killing faster and with fewer deaths. It is not going to be easy, but it is going to be interesting.
Shuuda
From past experience, I know your one of them "I doesn't matter how bad I am at the game, at least I'm creative and don't run cookie cutters" types. So let me lay down some facts:
- There are no more original builds, every good, working build in the game has been made and refined to it's peak, anything else is sub-optimal trash which some PvErs and bad PvPers play to give them a false sense of being good at the game. - SoI and PvE skills is the new Mesmer "cookie cutter", which make your argument rather ironic. Now for some opinions: - SoI is a lame skill that was made to please the PvE Mesmer's who couldn't move on to PvP, and spent their whole time whining about how Mesmer's are bad in PvE. - SoI may at first appear to be the skill of endless combinations, it's actually pretty limited. Since you can only combine (without the use of them Random Spell stealing skills, which is lame) skills from Mesmer's and one other profession, if you use lots of skills from your secondary, you'd be better off just using that profession as a primary, since it's primary attribute is made to synergies with the skills your using (E.G: Energy Storage for high costing ele skills, Divine Favor for Monk support) And PvP wise, SoI is interruptable, even with fast casting. And in PvE, your better off with an Ele Nuker. Oh, and it uses up your Elite Skill. - The "Cookie Cutter" Domination Template in PvP is more flexable than gimmicky SoI.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Shuuda
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I think there are still many more good PvE builds that have yet to be discovered with so many possible combination of skills that we have today.
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Nothing creative happens in PvE either, everyone just copies "cookie cutters" and farming builds off everyone else, which is why they complain about skill balances because their so bad at this game they cannot adapt. The truth is, you think you creative because PvE is so easy, that it forgives you for playing crap builds, PvP is less forgiving, especially GvG. And since you don' do any high end PvP, don't make sweeping generalisations. High end PvPers (GvG) are competitive, being creative is trival to winning, same as PvE really, apart from the fact PvP is more rewarding.|
Now for some opinions: - SoI is a lame skill that was made to please the PvE Mesmer's who couldn't move on to PvP, and spent their whole time whining about how Mesmer's are bad in PvE. Because PvP is FOTM cookie-cutter haven. Nothing creative happens there for a long while. Quote:
No, it's facts, good new builds only come around after skill balances, usually made by competent PvPers.
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You have environmental effects, you face monsters that are 1.5 times your level and you can face more than 8 monsters at a time.
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You have environmental effects, you face monsters that are 1.5 times your level and you can face more than 8 monsters at a time.
Is that ... CoP I see there?You have environmental effects, you face monsters that are 1.5 times your level and you can face more than 8 monsters at a time.
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PvE being different form PvP is what PvErs say to make themselves feel as if they are good at something that the PvPers are not, in truth, PvP are just as good (if not better) in PvE than the so called "PvErs" Proving that either A: PvP are better at this game on the whole than PvErs, or that B: PvP and PvE are similar in the sense of Mechanics and skills. Or both.|
Regardless, the Majority of Ele skills are better cast by eles.
Then tell the E/Me to not use mesmer skills then. Quote:
CoP is bloody Spiritual Pain on steroids!
It's insanely broken. Why the hell do you think pretty much everyone is using it? And no - you wouldn't ruin it for everyone by saying "Screw you guys! I am not bringing it!". It's FoW. Normal mode. Unless the guys went 180° on everything the events stood for those 2 years ago (or is it more?) - the main point should still be about having fun. Quote: Seriously - some people just don't find PvP fun enough to waste their time on it. Quote:
Ok then, post one of your so called "Creative" builds, so that I can see how creative is actually is, and how well it actually works
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The ability to use both professions is powerful when you get good synergy, ala Mending Touch on a Ranger.
And it doesn't require much work in PvE to bypass the disadvantages of a superior runes in PvE, just ask the nukers.
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So as a general rule in I'd be still inclined to say that sups aren't worth it. But one can make them work - not because the effect would be THAT much stronger - but rather because it's PvE and can toy around with breaking the rules.
It limits your options though.
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Minor runes lack power.
No, you just don't know how to play, the two attribute points are not worth the health loss. Good players can play at 14 attribute points for their main att. Quote:
I really can't be bothered to go through another round of PvP vs PvE flamming with you. Afterall, you are also the one who recommended replacing the ONLY mesmer in a PvE team with ANOTHER nuker.
I dont care if you think you are a god in PvP or just a noob. We are talking about PvE mesmers in this thread, so you can stop with your PvP > PvE, "I know everything", rant now. Quote:
Quote: Then tell the E/Me to not use mesmer skills then. |
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Mesmer superior runes are dirt cheap fyi. |
Minor runes lack power.
The health loss which can mean the life or death of your character isn't worth sacrifice. Quote:
Clumsiness and Wandering Eye is a difference of 10 damage between 14 and 16. Probably alittle more worth it for Wandering Eye since it is 10 damage for each nearby foes.
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And it doesn't require much work in PvE to bypass the disadvantages of a superior runes in PvE, just ask the nukers.
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It limits your options though.
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
The health loss which can mean the life or death of your character isn't worth sacrifice.
Because it is so easy to kite in PvE, I hardly die even with a superior rune. Make use of the terrain, kite well, dont over aggro, etc. With the right skills, it is easy to avoid getting killed while wearing a superior rune since PvE is not that hard. Quote:
And that's what ... 2ish wand hits?
You did give up 75hp for it. Quote:
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And I am not saying that +75 hp is all it takes in PvE. Aggro, choosing opponents, kitting, luring, additional armour, good builds, ... - if you play better an investment in attribute lines which does not demand sup runes is enough. So why waste HP on something that is nice (don't get me wrong) - but not really needed?
Precisely, why waste extra damage on something that is not really needed 99% of the time? +2 gives better heals/protect, not to mention higher damage, more energy (for energy management skills), etc. | Quote:
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