Mes or Rit?
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
Or are you guys strong believers in the "FC Nuker" "FC SS" "FC Healer"? Yeah...the Mesmer owns, he can imitate another profession and not be as effective as them at their job...woot.
Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare different professions, why not compare a monk against a warrior or a nuker? Each of them have their advantages and disadvantages.
A mesmer is better in certain things but a mesmer can't be as good as a necro in certain things, so what? Can a warrior or nuker heal as a well as a monk? Can a monk kill faster than a nuker?
I see no point in this little exercise.
A mesmer is better in certain things but a mesmer can't be as good as a necro in certain things, so what? Can a warrior or nuker heal as a well as a monk? Can a monk kill faster than a nuker?
I see no point in this little exercise.
Phe Belladona
while in normal mode it is perfectly true to say everything a mesmer can do is outdone by whatever, in hard mode i think the mesmer gets useful especially in some areas where you dont have 8 ppl to outdamage the 2 monks a few diversions can break mobs. also its armour ignoring damage becomes more useful.
mesmers best prof in game and the idea of making a pure countermage is prolly the best idea anet had. also excellent outfits.
i have 2 mesmers and love playing mesmer, its a game and you might not get a lot of high end pve pugs as one but it depends if you care about that.. i dont.
mesmering is its own reward ^^
mesmers best prof in game and the idea of making a pure countermage is prolly the best idea anet had. also excellent outfits.
i have 2 mesmers and love playing mesmer, its a game and you might not get a lot of high end pve pugs as one but it depends if you care about that.. i dont.
mesmering is its own reward ^^
upier
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
By looking clearly at it - you can see it's not an adrenaline skill nor a signet.
So yes, you do need it.
Quote: Originally Posted by RiKio Yes. But IMO Clumsiness is only half-buffed. I think the REAL update is coming... It was nerfed.
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its only a 10e spell?|
Originally Posted by Phe Belladona
while in normal mode it is perfectly true to say everything a mesmer can do is outdone by whatever, in hard mode i think the mesmer gets useful especially in some areas where you dont have 8 ppl to outdamage the 2 monks a few diversions can break mobs. also its armour ignoring damage becomes more useful.
mesmers best prof in game and the idea of making a pure countermage is prolly the best idea anet had. also excellent outfits. i have 2 mesmers and love playing mesmer, its a game and you might not get a lot of high end pve pugs as one but it depends if you care about that.. i dont. mesmering is its own reward ^^ The problem is that the AI is still as dumb as ever - so pure force will still win. My guildy was having issues vanquishing Easter Frontier (it was the last area he needed for his title). He plays a warrior - so I loaded up my warrior - took two monk heroes - and just kept on whacking the two monk teams. Body blocking, luring and shitty builds on the foes all contribute to the fact that advanced techniques that the mesmer has to offer aren't even needed. "Merkle like plan B. Merkle like smash! SMASH!" wins PvE still.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by upier
By looking clearly at it - you can see it's not an adrenaline skill nor a signet. So yes, you do need it. |
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Originally Posted by upier
advanced techniques that the mesmer has to offer aren't even needed.
same for necros,wars,eles,rits,dervs ect you dont even need monks some times. ive said this a few times theres always more then 1 way to do something
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare different professions, why not compare a monk against a warrior or a nuker? Each of them have their advantages and disadvantages.
A mesmer is better in certain things but a mesmer can't be as good as a necro in certain things, so what? Can a warrior or nuker heal as a well as a monk? Can a monk kill faster than a nuker? I see no point in this little exercise. The point is the "FC ______" tries to imitate another profession, but doesn't do it as good as the normal profession. Saying that a Warrior can't heal as good as a Monk is EXACTLY my point, thanks for proving it. A Warrior CAN'T heal as good as a Monk, just like a "FC Nuker" can't "nuke" as good as an Elementalist. Comparing a "FC Nuker" to an Elementalist is not comparing apples to oranges. It is more like comparing a normal person to a retard. A Mesmer can't be as good as anything in any given PvE situation. The things that a Mesmer excels at are moot in PvE, things such as caster shutdown and edenial. Tyla
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
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It's 5e.
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same for necros,wars,eles,rits,dervs ect you dont even need monks some times. ive said this a few times theres always more then 1 way to do something
Agreed. Glob of Ectospasm's FoW runs with a full team of all professions ftw.  But in all honesty, Mesmer's uses are weak in PvE.
upier
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
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In because of that - unlimited energy of SR > faster cast spells.
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
same for necros,wars,eles,rits,dervs ect you dont even need monks some times. ive said this a few times theres always more then 1 way to do something
The difference is that because of the mesmers advanced techniques - his range in what works best in PvE (damage, damage, damage) is limited.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it's not as good.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
The point is the "FC ______" tries to imitate another profession, but doesn't do it as good as the normal profession.
Saying that a Warrior can't heal as good as a Monk is EXACTLY my point, thanks for proving it. A Warrior CAN'T heal as good as a Monk, just like a "FC Nuker" can't "nuke" as good as an Elementalist. Comparing a "FC Nuker" to an Elementalist is not comparing apples to oranges. It is more like comparing a normal person to a retard. A Mesmer can't be as good as anything in any given PvE situation. The things that a Mesmer excels at are moot in PvE, things such as caster shutdown and edenial. Maybe you are just not thinking of all the possibilities. SoI brings ALL attribute lines to 16, besides granting level 11 rank (+1 above maxed possible rank) PvE skills. The keyword here is synergy across attributes and professions. Just looking at the fire Ele, a fire Ele can have all the nice fire skills in his bar and even max energy storage, but what if he wants to also include Earth, Air, and Water skills in his skill bars and maintain ALL of them at level 16? No way. What if the SF ele wants to blind his foes and offer more protection? You can use Steam along with SF, but wait, Steam is a water spell. At level 16 water, I can blind for 10 seconds, offer 73 cold damage using Steam. SoI allows maxed SF, maxed water, with only 1 superior rune with maxed fast casting. Similary for Enervating Charge and Glowstone or Stoning. I can have 16 seconds of weakness, gain 10 energy, knock down, and 109 earth + 56 earth + 52 lightning damage. I have not even looked at synergizing with any rank 11 PvE skills and level 16 mesmer skills yet. Also spells in primary attributes like Soul Reaping, Energy Storage, Spawning Power, Divine Favor, Mysticism can't be used by secondary classes at level 16 (only level 0), but an SoI mesmer is unique.
Coloneh
alright, im getting bored of repeating the same things over and over, so ill just say this: mesmers have no advantage over other primary professions in PvE.
now, if you have any disagreement with this, reply with some info that makes sense. "u dnt g3t interuptd" is not a post that makes sense. there are not enough interrupts in PvE for that to be a consideration.
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Maybe you are just not thinking of all the possibilities. SoI brings ALL attribute liness to 16, besides granting level 11 rank (+1 above maxed possible rank) PvE skills.
The keyword here is synergy across attributes and professions. Just looking at the fire Ele, a fire Ele can have all the nice fire skills in his bar and even max energy storage, but what if he wants to also include Earth, Air, and Water skills in his skill bars and maintain ALL of them at level 16? No way. What if the SF ele wants to blind his foes and offer more protection? You can use Steam along with SF, but wait, Steam is a water spell. At level 16 water, I can blind for 10 seconds, offer 73 cold damage using Steam. SoI allows maxed SF, maxed water, with only 1 superior rune with maxed fast casting. Similary for Enervating Charge and Glowstone or Stoning. I can have 16 seconds of weakness, gain 10 energy, knock down, and 109 earth + 56 earth + 52 lightning damage. I have not even looked at synergizing with any rank 11 PvE skills and level 16 mesmer skills yet. I'm sorry, but your examples with single target spells that have slight synergies are /fail. I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills? Not to mention that your Mesmer doesn't have an elite.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terraban
I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills? Not to mention that your Mesmer doesn't have an elite. |
Actually people do use Steam. Read this:
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Did you even read the link that you sent?
You sent a farming build as proof that SoI is good because of a skill combination.
Uh...you dont understand English? Read again, slowly this time:|
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/...de_Terrafarmer Variants Ebon Hawk/Enervating Charge + Glowstone and/or Stoning Keyword...FARMER. There is also no reason at all for the Enervating Charge + Glowstone combination....
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
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Uh...Have you forgotton that we are talking about a SoI build?
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Keyword...FARMER. There is also no reason at all for the Enervating Charge + Glowstone combination....
So farming is suddenly not part of PvE anymore?
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Uh...Have you forgotton that we are talking about a SoI build?
So farming is suddenly not part of PvE anymore? I rest my case.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
Terraban
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
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You said:
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Originally Posted by Terraban
I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills?
And I showed you builds that use them. Even if one of them happen to be a recommended farming build that uses Glowstone+Enervating Charge, none of the builds I showed you are SoI builds. I am just showing you that many people DO use these skills (i.e. Steam+Burning and Enervating Charge+Glowstone/Stoning)
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
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JDRyder
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Originally Posted by upier
The point is that it costs energy.
In because of that - unlimited energy of SR > faster cast spells.
The difference is that because of the mesmers advanced techniques - his range in what works best in PvE (damage, damage, damage) is limited.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it's not as good.
for energy if you can cast all you skills non stop and never need more energy to cast, SR becomes useless. For mesmers you dont spam skills, it reqs that you know how to play your bar
and as for as "damage damage damge" http://youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04&feature=related you dont need all that damage you can take damage out, and im sure things will still die "in 4 secs" as you guys put it and have a mesmer taking pressure off you team.
In because of that - unlimited energy of SR > faster cast spells.
The difference is that because of the mesmers advanced techniques - his range in what works best in PvE (damage, damage, damage) is limited.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it's not as good.
for energy if you can cast all you skills non stop and never need more energy to cast, SR becomes useless. For mesmers you dont spam skills, it reqs that you know how to play your bar
and as for as "damage damage damge" http://youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04&feature=related you dont need all that damage you can take damage out, and im sure things will still die "in 4 secs" as you guys put it and have a mesmer taking pressure off you team.
Terraban
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
for energy if you can cast all you skills non stop and never need more energy to cast, SR becomes useless. For mesmers you dont spam skills, it reqs that you know how to play your bar
and as for as "damage damage damge" http://youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04&feature=related you dont need all that damage you can take damage out and im sure thing will still die "in 4 secs" as you guys put it and have a mesmer taking pressure off you team How is the Mesmer taking pressure off the team? Interrupts?
Guess what....ANY profession can do that, and Rangers can even do it BETTER. Rangers can use any interrupt skill that a Mesmer can use, + their own interrupts.
and as for as "damage damage damge" http://youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04&feature=related you dont need all that damage you can take damage out and im sure thing will still die "in 4 secs" as you guys put it and have a mesmer taking pressure off you team How is the Mesmer taking pressure off the team? Interrupts?
Guess what....ANY profession can do that, and Rangers can even do it BETTER. Rangers can use any interrupt skill that a Mesmer can use, + their own interrupts.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
You sent a farming build as proof that SoI is good because of a skill combination.
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Originally Posted by Terraban
I mean really...Steam? Glowstone + Enervating Charge? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills?
And I showed you builds that use them. Even if one of them happen to be a recommended farming build that uses Glowstone+Enervating Charge, none of the builds I showed you are SoI builds. I am just showing you that many people DO use these skills (i.e. Steam+Burning and Enervating Charge+Glowstone/Stoning)
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Uh...you dont understand English? Read again, slowly this time:
And I showed you builds that use them. Even if one of them happen to be a recommended farming build that uses Glowstone+Enervating Charge, none of the builds I showed you are SoI builds. I am just showing you that many people DO use these skills (i.e. Steam+Burning and Enervating Charge+Glowstone/Stoning) Cool...that means you can use Mending and Healing Breeze with SoI too. 55 monks use it so it must be good! Maybe even throw in some Balthazar's Spirit too, because 55 monks use that too.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terraban
Guess what....ANY profession can do that, and Rangers can even do it BETTER. Rangers can use any interrupt skill that a Mesmer can use, + their own interrupts. |
Psychic Stability
Elite Spell. Interrupt target foe's action. If that action was a spell that foe is knocked down. (50% failure chance with Fast Casting 4 or less.)
Try using this on your R/Me.
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Originally Posted by Terraban
Cool...that means you can use Mending and Healing Breeze with SoI too. 55 monks use it so it must be good! Maybe even throw in some Balthazar's Spirit too, because 55 monks use that too.
Maybe you really dont understand English. I would have to try a more empirical form of expression:
SoI != Farming
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Oh really?
Psychic Stability Elite Spell. Interrupt target foe's action. If that action was a spell that foe is knocked down. (50% failure chance with Fast Casting 4 or less.) Try using this on your R/Me. Why when you could use [skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill]? And no I must not understand english... I say skills you suggest suck. You show a farming build that suggests them. 55 Monks use Mending and Healing Breeze, so by your logic Mending and Healing Breeze go well with SoI since a remote build uses them? I'll sum it up for you: You: "SoI is good because you can use X+Y" Me: "X+Y sucks so that is pointless" You: "No this farming build uses X+Y" Me: "Just because a farming build uses X+Y doesn't mean it is good" You: "Who mentioned farming? You!"
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
I say skills you suggest suck.
You show a farming build that suggests them. 55 Monks use Mending and Healing Breeze, so by your logic Mending and Healing Breeze go well with SoI since a remote build uses them? You dont understand the empirical form too? Oh brother...maybe you need hand gestures. Let me sum it up for you: Me: "SoI is good because you can use X+Y at level 16 for BOTH" You: really...? X + Y? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills? Me: "Many people uses X+Y effectively. Look at these X+Y builds <non-farming build1>, <non-farming build2>,....<1 farming build>...." You: "Just because a farming build uses X+Y doesn't mean it is good" Me: "Who mentioned farming? You!"
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
You dont understand the empirical form too? Oh brother...maybe you need hand gestures.
I done with you.
Once you learn to play and how to keep up with what YOU SAID, then you can continue posting. I'll post this again so maybe you might try to read it. I'll sum it up for you: You: "SoI is good because you can use X+Y" Me: "X+Y sucks so that is pointless" You: "No this farming build uses X+Y" Me: "Just because a farming build uses X+Y doesn't mean it is good" You: "Who mentioned farming? You!"
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
I'll sum it up for you: You: "SoI is good because you can use X+Y" Me: "X+Y sucks so that is pointless" You: "No this farming build uses X+Y" Me: "Just because a farming build uses X+Y doesn't mean it is good" You: "Who mentioned farming? You!" I dont why you making a huge deal out of that single farming out of that entire list of builds I sent. Me: "SoI is good because you can use X+Y at level 16 for BOTH" You: really...? X + Y? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills? Me: "Many people use X+Y effectively. Look at these X+Y builds <non-farming build1>, <non-farming build2>,....<1 farming build>...." You: "Just because a farming build uses X+Y doesn't mean it is good" Me: "Who mentioned farming? You!" You: "You mentioned 1 farming build....you are terrible! the sky is falling! That implies SoI must suck! blah blah...OH THE HORROR!"
Terraban
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
I dont why you making a huge deal out of that single farming out of that entire list of builds I sent.
Me: "SoI is good because you can use X+Y at level 16 for BOTH" You: really...? X + Y? Are you seriously wasting your whole entire skillbar on these mediocre single target skills? Me: "Many people uses X+Y effectively. Look at these X+Y builds <non-farming build1>, <non-farming build2>,....<1 farming build>...." You: "Just because a farming build uses X+Y doesn't mean it is good" Me: "Who mentioned farming? You!" The first build you posted, which btw, all three of them were the same build quoted different times, was a standard SF build with Steam thrown in. Your SoI build is focused on Steam itself. One build is focused on SF, and uses Steam as a secondary skill. Your build uses Steam as its main skill. You can't see the difference? Are you really that retarded or are you just faking it?
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by Terraban
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Your build uses Steam as its main skill.
Which build uses Steam as the main skill? Quote:
Oh you want to continue for him? This is where the argument ends at:
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