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Originally Posted by Tarun
PvP screws people over, as usual. Big surprise.
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Thursday, March 20, 2008 Game Update
Shuuda
Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Miska Bow
I've been playing for 5 months now and the only thing that really bugs me about updates is the fact that you have no point of refference as to what those skills were before. All we are being told is what they are now.
Not everyone knows them all by heart. |
- Tain -
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Originally Posted by R Langdon
bye bye ranger, i just started to play her again too. 3...10? wtf +10???
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+10 points for anet for killing turrets. The rest of it looks pretty good imo, except maybe the hammers
garethporlest18
Eh I think those sundering/penetrating skills got too nerfed.
Other things don't bother me much as I didn't use them.
Oh well back to BA.
Other things don't bother me much as I didn't use them.
Oh well back to BA.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by upier
So you never stood in plain sight of the target (or meybe even NEXT to it) and kept getting "The target is obstructed" message? And then moved around and STILL got it? Even though there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING between you and the target?
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The turret ranger build is still *slightly* alive, since their strength came primarily from the 1s cast skills. Since those still exist, it still works, albeit the bar has less room for utility and whatnot.
Kiragi Yagami
only people who didnt get shafted were the eles -.- :P
AW Lore
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So you never stood in plain sight of the target (or meybe even NEXT to it) and kept getting "The target is obstructed" message? And then moved around and STILL got it? Even though there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING between you and the target? Must be a PvE thing then ... |
with bridges and the lack of the Z-axis (or whatever axis it is) the game goes a bit cucu and doesnt detect it. how many bridges are in the pvp maps again?
a second way to have it "triggered" is to stand like really really close a wall, and it doesnt happen always, in pvp, how many people stand still close to a wall? usually they try to not get too close to walls or they could get bodyblocked and be screwed, and usually they are always kiting.
but then again, its been a long time since i last pvped.
I D E L E T E D I
i guess alright update, aragondaz gaze is a nice nerf. and turrent rangers were annoying to play against too.
thanks anet
thanks anet
Lopezus
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| Just because wind prayers is shit in PvE doesn't mean it's not really, really good in PvP. |
Mr Pvper
blah my super rigged ranger got nerfed >_<
I still dont see why the hammer elite was nerfed, its not even that great.
I still dont see why the hammer elite was nerfed, its not even that great.
Rift
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Yes, it happens but it's fairly rare. Saying that the z-axis bug completely destroys all advantage ranged attacks have over melee is really pretty silly. If that was actually true, everyone would run hamstring rangers instead of cripshots.
The turret ranger build is still *slightly* alive, since their strength came primarily from the 1s cast skills. Since those still exist, it still works, albeit the bar has less room for utility and whatnot. |
And Prepshot Rangers are just a baed build that gained traction because of a lack of countermeasures (e.g. Shields Up change).
And no, not Hamstring Rangers. With Scythe Sins gone, and Bow Rangers hurting, the obvious solution is now to have Rangers run Escape and wield Scythes.. oh wait.
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I don't think it's that hard to avoid shooting walls.
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Kewl Runner
Can't Arenanet do something useful with the skill updates? I mean, they nerf a set of skills to oblivion but forget to nerf the real overpowered once like Rending Touch?
VitisVinifera
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Originally Posted by Shuuda
PvPers see it the other way around, PvE ruined PvP with Heroes and Nightfall, ironic, is it not....
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when a particular skill is virtually unused in pve, and 'imba' in pvp, and it gets nerfed, it might as well not even exist in pve
and vice versa
Aerian_Skybane
As a PvEr Ranger since birth (?), I must say that these nerfs do absolutely nothing to affect my playstyle whatsoever. The amount of percieved damage lost versus actual damage noticed at all is not equal. The latter is barely changed, where the former just affects people who love a good QQ.
But then again, I have abandoned reasoning with either camp since Factions came out and the PvP vs PvE "discussion" began in earnest. Whatever.
Damnit, Gaze would have been nice to have in its current form when I was beating Cyndr "I never die without a damn blood necro or two killing me from behind a pillar" the Mountain Heart yesterday. Effing hate that boss. Thank god I only need to do it once...
But then again, I have abandoned reasoning with either camp since Factions came out and the PvP vs PvE "discussion" began in earnest. Whatever.
Damnit, Gaze would have been nice to have in its current form when I was beating Cyndr "I never die without a damn blood necro or two killing me from behind a pillar" the Mountain Heart yesterday. Effing hate that boss. Thank god I only need to do it once...
moriz
the fast bow attacks simply need aftercast, not a damage reduction.
after all, the reason why bow interrupts have aftercast was to prevent people from chaining them to mow people down... i don't see why the same philosophy cannot be applied here.
after all, the reason why bow interrupts have aftercast was to prevent people from chaining them to mow people down... i don't see why the same philosophy cannot be applied here.
Saint Zeth
Overall, a nice update. Good nerf to Angrorodon's Gaze, and it's especially good to see that sins and warriors won't be able to spike with Guiding Hands anymore.
Zahr Dalsk
As a ranger I never even used those skills. So I can honestly say I don't give a shit as far as the ranger changes go. Burning Arrow Ranger > turrets.
street peddler
aw i liked guiding hands :[...still useable i guess.
Buddhaofwar
im still mad about the 'watch yourself' nerf >.>
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane
Damnit, Gaze would have been nice to have in its current form when I was beating Cyndr "I never die without a damn blood necro or two killing me from behind a pillar" the Mountain Heart yesterday. Effing hate that boss. Thank god I only need to do it once... |
Maybe the extra energy would allow for dropping AuI and adding in another life steal.
Cmdr Sub Zero
Well this skill update update just took it too far for me with nerfing ranger skills.
After this skill update one question that comes to mind is Why do we need rangers anymore if their Bloody skills are doing to get powered down or changed.
I mean the ranger is known for its bow damage, few interrupts, and armor penetration. Yet now bow attack skills are being so powered down that they aren't worth using. Rangers aren't used for their interrupts due to Mesmer domination in that category. The only two builds that are really even make it worth having a ranger is touch ranger (which everyone is amazed hasn't been nerfed) and Burning arrow spammer.
So why do we even have rangers?!?! I feel like deleting my ranger which is my oldest character just so I can create a class that doesn't get so horribly under powered. I mean if you look at the history of skill updates the rangers overall power has decreased so now it is a pitful class to even use. I love anet to death but seriously them constantly boosting other classes skill while decreasing rangers overall damage is just a hypocrisy. This is one ranger who is sick of being nerfed.
Sincerely,
Itzl the Ranger
After this skill update one question that comes to mind is Why do we need rangers anymore if their Bloody skills are doing to get powered down or changed.
I mean the ranger is known for its bow damage, few interrupts, and armor penetration. Yet now bow attack skills are being so powered down that they aren't worth using. Rangers aren't used for their interrupts due to Mesmer domination in that category. The only two builds that are really even make it worth having a ranger is touch ranger (which everyone is amazed hasn't been nerfed) and Burning arrow spammer.
So why do we even have rangers?!?! I feel like deleting my ranger which is my oldest character just so I can create a class that doesn't get so horribly under powered. I mean if you look at the history of skill updates the rangers overall power has decreased so now it is a pitful class to even use. I love anet to death but seriously them constantly boosting other classes skill while decreasing rangers overall damage is just a hypocrisy. This is one ranger who is sick of being nerfed.
Sincerely,
Itzl the Ranger
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero
Rangers aren't used for their interrupts due to Mesmer domination in that category.
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Foe
this is funny, you can see where Izzy spends his time ig. As if "turret rangers" were/are imba anywhere other than vs his three fire ele one wamo ra team. I think these were a nice/easy/fun build for rangers who weren't ready for dshot/savage templates. Come on, if one sb ggs your entire bar rest assured its not a problem. Ironically, Escape being one of the most abused skills of the month gets a small boon via the guiding nerf. Escape and Wail are the current creepers, stop encouraging f'n blockway.
Angelina Collins
WTF with the ranger nerfs, I mean I don't use those skills, but they were not overpowered, so why then? I hope GW2 skills are seprate, or it will = fail.
Sekhmet585
i agree with cmdr sub zero most of the ranger interrupts are good for small scale battles not huge battles like AB and HA
mrmango
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Originally Posted by Angelina Collins
WTF with the ranger nerfs, I mean I don't use those skills, but they were not overpowered, so why then? I hope GW2 skills are seprate, or it will = fail.
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moriz
actually, rangers are known for crippling shot and distracting shot... that's about it.
StormDragonZ
My poor Ranger got nerfed, but I did manage to find out [skill]Zojun's Shot[/skill] and [skill]Screaming Shot[/skill] work fine together.
Shuuda
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Oh hi, my name's Broad Head Arrow.
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Fishmonger
After a lifetime of 20% pen, they nerf it AND the dmg. This is about as overdone as putting exhaustion on rits lol
Lord Sojar
Rangers are not nerfed, they are still amazing.
And no, in an 8v8 setting, they are not easy to beat. Coupled with Rigor and GftE! they are disgusting.
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Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero
Turret Rangers are easy to defeat, nerfing such a long kept skill just because players don't feel like changing their skill bars is a joke.
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Shyft the Pyro
And that's the problem with the metagame. Instead of letting people work out counters and letting these counters become dominant enough to force out the "flavor of the week" build, the build gets nerfed and the players go scavenging for the next overpowered thing again. Except that the metagame just remains unbalanced, and is "balanced" again by the next nerf.
Take the turret ranger, for example. That build has virtually no defense. Blocking works against it, hexes work, heck, even conditions do! The build has a ton of counters which, assuming a normally flexible metagame, would start getting used frequently enough to render turret rangers useless. Instead, the skills are changed, and the build, instead of seeing occasional play in the hope of catching an unprepared opponent, has effectively been broken into a state where no one will use it at all.
Sure, dervspike was hard to prot against, but the key point is that it was hard, not impossible. Prot Spirit could still catch what cut through Aegis and other blocking skills, and Shelter could do it on a party-wide basis. Dervspike was simply a reaction to the meta's over-reliance on blocking, and - since it wasn't an "auto-win button" - the meta should have been allowed to adjust to it and find the right counters for it.
But, hey, not like it matters now...
Take the turret ranger, for example. That build has virtually no defense. Blocking works against it, hexes work, heck, even conditions do! The build has a ton of counters which, assuming a normally flexible metagame, would start getting used frequently enough to render turret rangers useless. Instead, the skills are changed, and the build, instead of seeing occasional play in the hope of catching an unprepared opponent, has effectively been broken into a state where no one will use it at all.
Sure, dervspike was hard to prot against, but the key point is that it was hard, not impossible. Prot Spirit could still catch what cut through Aegis and other blocking skills, and Shelter could do it on a party-wide basis. Dervspike was simply a reaction to the meta's over-reliance on blocking, and - since it wasn't an "auto-win button" - the meta should have been allowed to adjust to it and find the right counters for it.
But, hey, not like it matters now...
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by Angelina Collins
WTF with the ranger nerfs, I mean I don't use those skills, but they were not overpowered, so why then? I hope GW2 skills are seprate, or it will = fail.
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Case in point:
When coupled with a curse necro or 2 using Rigor and a paragon spamming "Go for the Eyes!" and relentless spamming on a single target, then rapidly switching to another target, it was extremely overpowered and nothing short of a giant gimmick.
It was an unprottable, uninfuseable pressure "spike". You could infuse it once, but the arrows would just keep raining down, be unblockable, and your heals barely scratching the damage output.
The fact is, machine gun rangers with a properly organized team were disgusting. This nerf will helpfully hope tone things down a bit.
Shuuda
Seriously, I don't see why people can overreact to 3, lame, bad concept skills (Rangers are not a DPS profession) that made an imbalanced build get nerfed.
A-net are not "Nerfing everything", the are simply ridding of things that are imbalanced, passive defence, or anything promoted buttom mashing and big spikes.
A-net are not "Nerfing everything", the are simply ridding of things that are imbalanced, passive defence, or anything promoted buttom mashing and big spikes.
Cmdr Sub Zero
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Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro
And that's the problem with the metagame. Instead of letting people work out counters and letting these counters become dominant enough to force out the "flavor of the week" build, the build gets nerfed and the players go scavenging for the next overpowered thing again. Except that the metagame just remains unbalanced, and is "balanced" again by the next nerf.
Take the turret ranger, for example. That build has virtually no defense. Blocking works against it, hexes work, heck, even conditions do! The build has a ton of counters which, assuming a normally flexible metagame, would start getting used frequently enough to render turret rangers useless. Instead, the skills are changed, and the build, instead of seeing occasional play in the hope of catching an unprepared opponent, has effectively been broken into a state where no one will use it at all. But, hey, not like it matters now... |
Very well put.
Lord Sojar
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Originally Posted by Shuuda
Seriously, I don't see why people can overreact to 3, lame, bad concept skills (Rangers are not a DPS profession) that made an imbalanced build get nerfed.
A-net are not "Nerfing everything", the are simply ridding of things that are imbalanced, passive defence, or anything promoted buttom mashing and big spikes. |
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Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro
Take the turret ranger, for example. That build has virtually no defense. Blocking works against it, hexes work, heck, even conditions do!
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moriz
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Originally Posted by Cmdr Sub Zero
Exactly the problem with the meta game.
Very well put. |
problem solved.
Hamsterstyle GYM
I would jump on the bandwagon of tears for rangers but I cried hard enough when Crippling Shot's recharge increased from 1 to 2 a few weeks ago.
Come up with something new is the only solution...that, or rage quit because you don't have every skill in the game =/
Come up with something new is the only solution...that, or rage quit because you don't have every skill in the game =/
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
for the casual pve'er (which is an abuse magnet on these forums), these constantly changing/nerfing of random skills once or twice a week is quite frustrating
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| oblivion: the rules are set and you can count on things being constant if you want to change things up yourself |
The worst part about this update was simply that it didn't nerf Ursan. Dear Anet: change the AoE knockdown to single target.