Thursday, March 20, 2008 Game Update

Its not that its the concept of nerfing new builds that come around so the meta game never changes. Nerfing skills that affect both pvp and pve just so the meta game doesn't change is just bad policy.

It's better than buffing all the skills into overpoweredness, face facts, nerfs are needed, otherwise the game would suck and get boring fast.

If all skills were overpowered the game would be balanced :P

Some nerfs are needed yes for horribly over powered situations. But the constant Powering down of skills just to balance the game is only going to lead to overall weak skills in the end.

Actually, it would be far from balanced.

Hey guess what? They buff skills too. But the anti-nerf crowd's too busy nitpicking every single nerf to care.

cough cough paragons cough

whats this whining about a profession doing more damage than a warrior at range??? wait whats that I hear??? omfg spears!!!!! look out they are coming run away wait running wont help cause its ranged, too bad its not axes or swords, kiting>>>melee weapons.

Imbagons still survive and anet destroys a build in witch a ranger can actually do damage that is threatening. granted it was way overpowered but did they need to totally kill the skills. Wait yeah they did cause anet has two buttons when it comes to nerffing "do nothing" and "annihilate"

Oh give me a break. They nerfed 3 skills(the fourth one was a clone)! Anet never decreased "rangers overall power". Maybe awhile ago but not recently.

Want some examples of the numerous buffs that rangers have gotten?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...0080117#Ranger - One nerf, but multiple buffs

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...0071113#Ranger - Pet nerf(doesn't affect rangers) and multiple buffs

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...0070809#Ranger - All buffs

Those were just a few, but Anet has never nerfed the ranger so much that it has become useless or pitiful.

You really need to stop the drama, it was just 3 skills that were nerfed; and they weren't even nerfed that much.

OMG! Power shot got a nerf!? The poor rangers in pre-sear!

I snickered. THINK OF THE PRE-SEAR PLAYERS.

But cripshot is still amazing...

Why are people all "emffff rangers r dmg class! now they no do big damage!"

Glad Ango's got nerfed, though.

Foex's Promise and Guilding Hands nerf seems to be a inadvertant "buff" to Avatar of Grenth (by relativism)

YEAH! Enchanter's was reverted and is now useable again.
Hex Breaker I guess is an attack on the old HB meta? Good to me.

W00t they listened to our Sardelaic thread about updating Magehunter (since it now applies KD, it is no longer a sideways swing).

Angro's was always overpowered. So good.

Removed exploitation in the AT (get all your friends to register and forfeit for you).

All fairly good. Anybody complaining about the ranger nerfs clearly don't play ranger that much (those skills were hardly staples).

Yeah, I don't understand why people are complaining about the 3 nerfs. They were crap skills before they were buffed, they're crap skills now.

that brough a smile

Stop taking skill updates personally. Anet's not out to nerf whatever pet build you're running.

Those skills fit into a very nice build my Ranger and all of my Ranger Heros ran!

It was a very nasty nerf since they used ALL of those skills.

For those that don't understand, after the last buff to those skills they could be chained together in a rapid fire attack that dealt 200+ dmg in under 2 seconds. With the correct preperation and elite skill + high expertise you could spam those attacks constantly.

This nerf cut the damage of that bar so much that now an elemental with only Obsidian Flame on his bar can out dmg my ranger... ;( death of yet another hero build.

Of course not. They already nerfed the pet build I was running when my pet, a living creature, stopped leaving a corpse. Now, they just nerf whatever build I'm running, since I don't have a "pet" any more

All right, I'll bite. Let us examine this step-by-step:

Q. Why are turret rangers the meta?
A. Because they work so well.

Q. Why do turret rangers work so well?
A. Because people aren't ready for the damage spike.

Q. Why aren't people ready for the damage spike?
A1. They don't know what the build does (wait, can't be that, the build's been around...)
A2. They don't have defense (wait, can't be that, everyone brings defense...)
A3. They don't bring the right counters.

In the game of rock-paper-scissors, rock remains the meta only so long as no one starts bringing paper. If paper shows up in games consistently enough, rock stops being the meta, because bringing rock is like asking for a loss. That's when paper becomes the new meta, and people start bringing scissors to counter it. Before long, scissors is the new meta, and people dust off their rocks and go out smashing things

In a healthy gaming environment, that is how the meta evolves. It does not matter how "overpowered" the build is, unless A) it is an "auto-win" or B) there are no counters. There are a few "auto-win" things in Guild Wars, like the Necromancer blood-stealing skills that go through everything (which is partly why so many people hate touch rangers), but with a pool of skills as huge as we have there should be no shortage of counters. Skills should be nerfed only if the build's counters are so few and far between that everyone starts playing the build in the hope of out-spiking the enemy first. Instead of being "the meta," the build becomes "the field." Turret rangers were nowhere near that by definition - there are too many counters for them.

And while we're on the topic of nerfs, why do they have to be made at all? There have been countless complaints about skills that never see any use. As Wail of Doom recently illustrated, ANet is not above changing skill functionality completely. If some new, "overpowered" build rears its ugly head, why not "buff" a few unused skills - by increasing their power, reworking their functionality, or eliminating anomalies - to counter the build? Instead of having "nerfs" demolish the established meta, such "buffs" would put more tools in the "rock-paper-scissors" pool, allowing the meta to balance itself.

I think you win the award for the most incorrect statements made in a single post.

I hope you weren't serious...

If you were, then why do you think they were nerfed?

I was starting to have fun with a pew pew ranger. Buring arrow and crip shot rangers get boring after a bit.

and lolwut? for the powershot nerf, like anyone uses it.

For those who don't think, half of these skills were *buffed* in the first place, but it turned out they were overbuffed. Now they've been toned down to more reasonable levels, but they're still better than they were before any updates.

For all of you crying about this update:

How many of you actually use Penetrating Attack? Unless you're a turret ranger in PvP, none of you are. You're all busy using epidemic-BHA or splinter barrage or something that either shuts down or splashes AoE all over.

The same applies to warriors. Most of you are Dslashing, Eviscerating, Backbreakering, and so on. The skills nerfed are not skills used the most commonly in PvE. In PvE, Necromancers, despite several SR nerfs, still have infinite energy. If you're running any e-manage skill other than SoLS, you're way too cautious with your energy.

Most people in PvE don't use these skills, and if you are, you shouldn't be, because in PvE there are dozens are viable alternatives that are in fact superior to what has been nerfed today.

So I suppose the question I pose to you is, why are you complaining about it?

Someone tell me why Mantra of Concentration was nerfed, by having it's duration halved. I'm not a PvP'r so the only real build I know using it, was one to farm the raptor cave. Just like FD'sH/SD'sH before it. Good old PvP'rs futzing up skills for PvE'rs yet again.

/clap

I was tempted to write out a long drawn out paragraph as to why the skills got nerfed don't really matter to them as there are better solutions in PvE. But you did it much better, thanks.

Also porbably paranoia due to thinking ouf OMG MY SKILL COULD BE NEXT.

Me/E fast cast lightning spike had been played a little bit since last skill update, they used hex breaker and mantra of concentration, most likely a way to deal with the build before it became a major problem.

Mantra of concentration was used by spike teams, and was completely functional at very low attribute investment. In fact, it worked fine without a single point in inspiration.

Of course it was, that is always the case.

However if you have not figured it out by now as long as a skill or spell does damage it will be abused in PvP. When one skill gets its damage lowered it allows another to step up and take its place. Until they make all skills and spells do the exact same amount of damage then there will never be balance in PvP.

So? That's no reason to alter it.

Gee, perhaps they shouldn't have made Sundering Attack a copy of Penetrating Attack to begin with. Those double skills have ticked me off since I first learned of them. It's bloody stupid to have exact duplicate skills, it's asking for trouble. Whenever people think of a powerful use for one, they're double trouble. If there had been only one of these, it might not have been needed to nerf it so badly. Ah, whatever.

That was the ENTIRE reason to change it.

Power shot nerf, now ive seen everything...

But it's not a good reason to change it.

LOL! SUX2BPERMAPRE.

Anyway, I'm not that annoyed by this nerf.

Rangers have always been highly neglected by ANet - limited farming abilities, primarily. However we are still very useful (for mesmer-hating groups, a ranger has more usage in that it can both deal damage and interrupt, snaring, condition spamming, etc).

Also, the duplicate skills ARE stupid. Honestly, just make Penetrating Attack core.

Actually, better yet, never have invented duplicates and leave the Prophecies skills Prophecies only - Factions sucks and anyone who only owns that game does not deserve good skills.

Factions was the best of the games. You pre-searing lovers deserve your nerfs to power shot.

Damn capitalist pigs...

Allright, lets propose this new rule: for every skill nerfed for PvP reasons, 1 PvE only skill should be buffed! What about that?

This time I was lucky... none of the skills nerfed were used by me. But I feel the pain of the rangers.

According to who?

I don't see any problem with reducing the duration of a skill when the skill requires no attribute investments to be able to be kept up indefinitely. Especially with an effect like being un-interruptible or canceling the next hex on you for 5 energy.

The Ghostly Hero rips people to shreds with it.

ouchie poor fox's promise Q.Q

and bloodspike took a big hit

I'm more scared of the ghostly heroes distracting shots.

The history of sundering/penetrating shot:


minor buff...
minor buff...
minor buff...
nerfed to worse than they were before any of the above buffs.


What the heck anet? I don't use the skills much, but can't you see that this is the sort of design decision that makes it look like you have no idea what yer doin'?

I was wondering when they would finally get around to 'fixing' this one...oO