Gaile's answer concerning the Ursan and 7 heroes imba issue:

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

My question was: Miss Gray, why do the devs think 7 heroes are imba while you can steamroll the game Ursan way?





Post constructive pls, thank you!

I D E L E T E D I

I D E L E T E D I

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

[BAAA] guest me NOW

Mo/

good question would like to know the answer myself, just hope this aint gonna turn into a flamewar

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I
good question would like to know the answer myself, just hope this aint gonna turn into a flamewar
Can't you guys see the pic I posted above?

English Warrior

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

no we cant see the pic also theres another thread about 7 heroes
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10201532

Mr. Undisclosed

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

I can see the pic fine, and this is a thread specificly about the answer. No need to link him Leeds...

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Can't say nothin' but: sweet : ) It's good to finally get some feedback regarding both issues.

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds
no we cant see the pic also theres another thread about 7 heroes
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10201532
Yeah I'm a regular customer of that thread btw, but as it involves Ursan too I thought it deserved a new thread. The mods can always merge my post into the other if they want to though.

Added a second link.

Parson Brown

Parson Brown

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

In ur base...

The one true [Hope]

E/

So she said Ursan Pugs and all-hero parties are not the same thing. And that maybe someday there'll be a change to one or both systems.

Man, she can rival Obama in the ability to talk without saying anything!

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

I kinda feel like it'd be an "either/or" situation: the biggest support for seven heroes is because of how useful and efficent UB is. Nerf UB and you might not be looking at 7 heroes anymore...Does anyone see what I mean about this??

N1ghtstalker

N1ghtstalker

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2007

E/

It's fine this way

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I kinda feel like it'd be an "either/or" situation: the biggest support for seven heroes is because of how useful and efficent UB is. Nerf UB and you might not be looking at 7 heroes anymore...Does anyone see what I mean about this??
Yes ofcourse, nerfing Ursan would be the easiest way for Anet to settle the contradiction imo. I do hope though, they'll allow 7 heroes just for more fun.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parson Brown
So she said Ursan Pugs and all-hero parties are not the same thing. And that maybe someday there'll be a change to one or both systems.

Man, she can rival Obama in the ability to talk without saying anything!
Really, I thought she sounded like Clinton, who demonstrates the exact same ability, only while slinging mud at her opponents...

Stolen Souls

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Either way would be fine, imo. Whether they nerf UB or allow the heros, or both.

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Yes ofcourse, nerfing Ursan would be the easiest way for Anet to settle the contradiction imo. I do hope though, they'll allow 7 heroes just for more fun.
Why so I can take my mesmer with 2 sf heroes and 2 mms and a barbs necro and 2 monks?

And annihilate anything in my way...

Stolen Souls

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
Why so I can take my mesmer with 2 sf heroes and 2 mms and a barbs necro and 2 monks?

And annihilate anything in my way...
Yes I mean...its not like we can do that already, by having a friend join, add his heros, then leave. *rolls eyes*

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

she said exactly nothing about it.

perhaps either will change............desparate people will say in a post next week......

she promised we would get them as this PERHAPS spreads with the speed of rumor (only known faster than light speed medium) from site to site

perhaps becomes she said

she said becomes she promised

she promised becomes the devs said

the devs said becomes the devs promised

WHERE IS IT????

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
Why so I can take my mesmer with 2 sf heroes and 2 mms and a barbs necro and 2 monks?

And annihilate anything in my way...
I'm not against Ursan, but I think Anet will nerf it instead of allowing 7 heroes. As it's a fast fix.

And btw I can take my buddy and his 3 heroes to make that setup you give as an example. 2 men 6 hero teams are common. That one more hero in a one man/7 hero setup will not make a difference concerning balance.

If I wanne annihilate, I'll go Ursan way with my friends. Get the point?

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sadly, it's because they're selling GW:EN on an imbalanced skill I think. Is that how far we've come? It sure looks like that way but who knows.

Akolo

Akolo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

V??xj??, Sweden

Stop Stealing [agro]

Mo/

i really hope they do SOMETHING. as ursan is way more overpowered than 7 heroes would be they will probably nerf it (at least a biti hope).... though they might do......nothing :P

AceeBlueEagle

AceeBlueEagle

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

ASH -Ashes of Humanity

R/

Ummm, hate to be a thread pooper, but she didn't say anything about either with that answer.

It was a political type answer designed to move past the question and on to other issues / topics of discussion.

Solas

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

Keyword is Perhaps
Gaile is a rep. so gives people the answer they want to hear.

a person that hates ursan will read
perhaps as = it will in the future

a person that doesn't want to to change will read
perhaps as = we'll think about it but mainly leading to a no.

when both sides hear what they want it ends the convo and it moves from ursan and 7 parties to another subject.

it can be interperated imo

psycore

psycore

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

It'd be nice to have a 7 hero party would allow high end content to be still pursued by those classes maligned in high end if ursan was nerfed.

Who knows.

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Ursan is stupid and insulting, and I would like to see it gone, but it's really no skin off my back as I no longer PUG and would rather give up the game completely than do so.

However, I would really love to see 7 heroes. It'd be great to finally be able to fully explore the elite areas, to date I've only been able to see about half of them.

So... it would be nice if ANet would castrate the Bear, but getting The Magnificent Seven would be GREAT.

Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
she said exactly nothing about it.

perhaps either will change............desparate people will say in a post next week......

she promised we would get them as this PERHAPS spreads with the speed of rumor (only known faster than light speed medium) from site to site

perhaps becomes she said

she said becomes she promised

she promised becomes the devs said

the devs said becomes the devs promised

WHERE IS IT????
You made me smile, Loviatar.

The sum total is truly:
  • First, I feel these are two entirely different topics; Ursan builds and 7-hero parties are very different game components.
  • The devs are aware of the players' collective opinions, as many track the discussions on a daily basis.
  • We'll share information as and when it becomes available based on the decisions made by the design team.
I am very sorry that I don't have more to share on these two subjects. Oh, and I am about the least political person you'll meet, so I'm not trying to hint, or suggest, or pretend there is anything other than what there is. Which is, right now, nada. Sorry. Thanks a lot for understanding.

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

I hope it'll get done before I turn 37.
Btw, 7 heroes issue was first!

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Nerfing Ursan still won't make 7 heroes overpowered. They'd need to nerf guild teams as well

Hopefully Gaile's response is an indicator that we may have 7 heroes on the way. I do hope so; it would open up so many possibilities.

Darkobra

Darkobra

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot

E/Me

Ursan doesn't concern me as I've always been a spell caster. If a random group can't appreciate that, then I'm not going to be joining them. (Not that I would join a random group, EVER!)

I would love seven heroes. Three heroes are, in some cases, just not enough. You rack up a good offensive build, you end up having to deal with hench monks. You get a good defensive build, you end up with flare spamming elementalist hench. A balanced build, you're relying, yet again, on hench for the damage and healing.

It's not as if the game is impossible with just three heroes, but for those playing since the very beginning of Guild Wars, we all know how bad hench are. Just to remind you all, Alesia.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
she said exactly nothing about it.

perhaps either will change............desparate people will say in a post next week......

she promised we would get them as this PERHAPS spreads with the speed of rumor (only known faster than light speed medium) from site to site

perhaps becomes she said

she said becomes she promised

she promised becomes the devs said

the devs said becomes the devs promised

WHERE IS IT????
Bolded parts removed due to annoyance.

That said, we're very well aware of what she said, Loviatar, but we've had next to zero feed back on either case. Any comments at all is good news.

MisterT69

MisterT69

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Scions of Carver [SCAR]

E/

*crosses fingers * plz dont nerf ursan A-net! But on another note...what if A-net were to buff Ursan. For example, allow 7 heroes, and allow them to use UB. That way Tahlkora and Dunk will do all the healing, while you and your 5 ursan heroes annihilate the place. Isn't that a "balance" we can all get used to?

StormDragonZ

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

Player + 7 heroes is the same as saying:

Henchmen do not need to exist anymore. Take them out.

I guess I'm the only person who thinks Player + 7 heroes is a stupid idea.

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I'm not trying to hint, or suggest, or pretend there is anything other than what there is. Which is, right now, nada. Sorry. Thanks a lot for understanding.
That's why I added your 2nd line to the screenshot so people see the complete answer. It was however and still is an important question many players would like(d) to get answered, including myself.

Last week, many asked you about it but we got no response. So I know it's a vage answer we got today and I understand, thanks anyway. I hope you understand and don't blame me for bringing this in the spotlight as I, just like many others, just want to have more fun with 7 heroes. If the answer from Anet is a 'no', because the devs think it would be imba at this point in the game, it's only natural people will compare the situation with Ursan way, even though they're 2 different aspects of the game. The endgoal is the same, we all wanne shoot the bull, have fun in the game. One setup shoots with a much bigger rifle than the other though, sorta speak.

At this point I played 'everything' this game has to offer since proph release, have actually no real need for 7 heroes (except to have more fun like many others) and I don't mind Ursan. I do care about the fun aspect of this game though and what else is there for me to do now as advocate for more fun

romeus petrus

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Oh, and I am about the least political person you'll meet, so I'm not trying to hint, or suggest, or pretend there is anything other than what there is. Which is, right now, nada. Sorry. Thanks a lot for understanding.
She is clearly saying that there is no info on either subjects. So although having seven heroes might be a nice option for some high end PvE areas, I still don't see the link to ursan.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterT69
*crosses fingers * plz dont nerf ursan A-net! But on another note...what if A-net were to buff Ursan. For example, allow 7 heroes, and allow them to use UB. That way Tahlkora and Dunk will do all the healing, while you and your 6 ursan heroes annihilate the place. Isn't that a "balance" we can all get used to?
Sure, but it leads the game further down the road of crappiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Nerfing Ursan still won't make 7 heroes overpowered. They'd need to nerf guild teams as well

Hopefully Gaile's response is an indicator that we may have 7 heroes on the way. I do hope so; it would open up so many possibilities.
Now this is how I consider Ursan and heroes to share common ground: convenience.

With heroes you don't have to put up with having to organize the builds of random people, nor do you have to worry about many other annoying factors such as disconnects or AFK's. Because of this, having "pocket players" and not having to converse or discuss strategy, heroes become very convenient because you have very little set-up time.

Now with Ursan you don't have to worry about people's skills since Ursan takes care of that for you. You also don't have to look for anything specific: UB is indifferent to professions. This makes set-up time for Ursanway very short - just find 6 bears and two monks, you're good to go. Ursanway also bears an efficency in terms of power that few Hero builds are able to match.

I can somewhat understand people when they say that heroes are overpowered. I mean it's one person doing the work of 8 people and not having to put up with the risks that go with a full person group. But this was balanced because you had a 3 limit hero cap and they couldn't use PvE skills. Nowadays, things are a bit different now that UB's around.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akolo
as ursan is way more overpowered than 7 heroes would be
Actually, I've found exactly the opposite through experience. My brother and I roll pretty much every zone in HM, no problem. PUG-Ursan requires people I don't know. I've been in an Ursan PUG outside Olafstead in HM which got wiped at the dervish bull boss. First time I ever used that rez shrine, and I two-man Heroway that zone for norn points with my bro quite often.

Still, most stuff can be done with H/H even in HM, so allowing 7 heroes wouldn't really make a difference, except making it a bit more fun.

RhanoctJocosa

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

ANet would have to be mad to allow 7 hero parties.

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
ANet would have to be mad to allow 7 hero parties.
I though that they'd have to be mad to introduce single "I win pve" skill.
And yet here it is.

Oh, and everyone that says that 7 heroes would be overpowered- don't fail anymore, pl0x.
If 7 heroes limited by their ai (lol prot spirit on minions, SS suckage) is overpowered then what about 8 people, each with 3 pve skills? Wow, wouldn't THAT be overpowered?

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
ANet would have to be mad to allow 7 hero parties.
How could it possibly harm anything? (Granted, I don't doubt we'd find great, powerful builds, but that can happen JUST AS EASILY WITH A GUILD TEAM). It harms absolutely nothing to allow 7 heroes (hence my avatar, so the stubborn, ignorant people who claim it will somehow ruin the game can see the message nice and clearly). It will not destroy PUGs anymore than PUGs have already destroyed themselves. It will not make the game somehow crash. It will not cause any imbalance that guild teams, Ursan, or both could cause on their own.

netniwk

netniwk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Bellgium

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
You made me smile, Loviatar.

The sum total is truly:
  • First, I feel these are two entirely different topics; Ursan builds and 7-hero parties are very different game components.
  • The devs are aware of the players' collective opinions, as many track the discussions on a daily basis.
  • We'll share information as and when it becomes available based on the decisions made by the design team.
I am very sorry that I don't have more to share on these two subjects. Oh, and I am about the least political person you'll meet, so I'm not trying to hint, or suggest, or pretend there is anything other than what there is. Which is, right now, nada. Sorry. Thanks a lot for understanding.
It shows how desperate the comunity is for something new when they turn this into a newsflash..

Numa Pompilius

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormDragonZ
Player + 7 heroes is the same as saying:

Henchmen do not need to exist anymore. Take them out.
Are you saying we should consider the feelings of the henchmen?

Also, the henchmen would still have use for those who've not got Nightfall or Eye of the North.

@netniwk: If you check some of Gailes logs here in the dev track forum you'll find that noncommittal and vagueness is pretty much par for the course. This is still somewhat noteworthy as it's the first sign ever that ANet at all is aware that there is controversy over Ursan.

RhanoctJocosa

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
How could it possibly harm anything? (Granted, I don't doubt we'd find great, powerful builds, but that can happen JUST AS EASILY WITH A GUILD TEAM). It harms absolutely nothing to allow 7 heroes (hence my avatar, so the stubborn, ignorant people who claim it will somehow ruin the game can see the message nice and clearly). It will not destroy PUGs anymore than PUGs have already destroyed themselves. It will not make the game somehow crash. It will not cause any imbalance that guild teams, Ursan, or both could cause on their own.
PuGs are already destroyed so who gives a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO let's destroy them more?

Nice mentality. Stfu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
I though that they'd have to be mad to introduce single "I win pve" skill.
And yet here it is.

Oh, and everyone that says that 7 heroes would be overpowered- don't fail anymore, pl0x.
If 7 heroes limited by their ai (lol prot spirit on minions, SS suckage) is overpowered then what about 8 people, each with 3 pve skills? Wow, wouldn't THAT be overpowered?
True, but something as blatant as this...