Breaking News: Death of Taiwan, Macao and Hong Kong Region!?

didnt they say that the reasons for changing those servers was because it had to meet Chinese laws or something?

IDK i guess some people dont read...its not ONLY because of the RMT. good god read the whole thing before u start passing judgement.

chikorita23, if you honestly think this is based on racism I have no sympathy for you.

Anet isn't racist, they just can't provide service to the region because of Chinese laws. The contract for GW has expired and not renewed. This has nothing do to with gold farmers; that is just someone's speculation gone wild.

Well we have a Taiwanese guild (all players are in the American or EU servers) and we can all get to the hall still, just most of the NPCs dont work anymore. Who knows what will happen down the line right now. Just in case we have screenshotted the guild list and are making preperations to move back to our old US based guild if needs be.

Kikuta, and thanks I do not need any of your sympathy! I only need Anet's fair judge not your personal sympathy.

Anet giving out fancy excuses by saying they isolated Taiwanese GW duo to recent law change! Oh please.... our new government Ma-Ying-Ju just got on, and no law has yet been changed until a bit later. Where did this freaking law change info Anet got it from? Anet did this because they wanna ban bots, well, go-ahead then! I've seen them everywhere not just in Asian districts.

The fact is, there is no law changing yet, if they found a bot in asian services, they can ban it. Instead, they rush on banning Taiwan/HK/Macau services influencing all the other innocent paid-customers. This will make a lot of us consider racism!

*sigh* Propaganda, rumour, and 2nd guessing make for a wild combo.

Get informed.

:sigh: its not about the gold farmers, do your homework.

Almost all the arguments and most of the information are on the "Death" thread. Please go read at least some of it before jumping to conclusions.

And where is your homework coming from? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ANet is racist. I just think that nobody besides ANet really knows what their motives are. If it was to cut the number of bots or not or if that even impacted their decisions. Or for that mater, if they even had much of a choice in the decision. I am not making any assumptions or conclusions at this point.

And, if for some reason the American districts were dealt news of similar magnitude do you think that this forum would not be overloaded with outrage? Just try and look at things from their perspectives is all instead of being all superior. /endrant.

Hey GG, well we all read those "explanation"! However, there is no law changing yet Gaile Gray, our new government just got on and nothing has been changed. You mind give us the real reason for it?

Beside, its sad u're leaving, but worse Anet doesn't really respecting Taiwanese/HK players.

Please. The racism bit is absurdly old and played out, we've heard it all a thousand times before about a thousand different things. If Arenanet was racist, they'd cut off service to all Asian countries, not just Taiwan.

From what I gather, it appears the server network was contracted out, expired, and isn't being renewed for some reason. Gaile mentioned new laws influencing this, too. Perhaps a decision was made not to sign a new contract given the laws that will be passed in the near future? It would be silly to sign a contract if there will be serious legal issues in the near future.

Second, Taiwan is not China, as much as China believes it is. Taiwan has its own government, and passes its own laws. However, China does not acknowledge Taiwan as an independent nation. Because China is extremely powerful in the UN, most other major countries, including the US, do not formally recognize Taiwan. It is certainly possible that this is creating a legal mess, but it would seem strange.

Hong Kong is very much a part of China, although it is a "special economic zone" (read: capitalism is ok here because it makes us a ton of money). It has a different government from China, but is still subject to their rule when the PRC sees fit. It is very likely that the shutdown there is related to the Tibet incident and the resulting Chinese lockdown of online information sources, including games. China is supposedly doing this because they want to make the country look good for the Olympic Games.

The game is most likely run by a third party (or maybe it's just government influence?) in Taiwan. If that third party is no longer expecting profit from a game that's had horrible sales in the area, they have no reason to renew the contract. For whatever reason Anet's contract was not renewed (Anet's decision or the third parties?), but Anet is still keeping a server operational for the Taiwanese players. It's not exactly the best thing that could be done, but it's probably due to that outside influence that the players weren't just thrown in with everybody else. There are some things Anet just can't do, so don't bitch and complain that this is all their fault. :|

At least Europe and America are lucky enough to be run directly by Anet without government involvement.

Prove it. Link us the facts.

I'd say an international company with a team of lawyers are closer to the truth and facts, than someone with Google at their disposal.

Please understand: We cannot offer a game that have different standards for different regions. Certain new regional laws limit our ability to monitor and maintain our property, Guild Wars, with consistency and fairness. Naturally, we must and will respect local law. However, it is not in the best interests of the game -- nor is it fair to the individual players, nor appropriate to the game community as a whole -- to have wildly different rules for certain groups of players. That is why service is offered to players on the Taiwan server but with certain restrictions.

I state with all respect that this is not a matter for which ArenaNet or NC Taiwan can or should be blamed.

Nail on the head. And coffin closed.

I don't do my homework if my teacher fail to provide me a correct/honest resources!

Gaile and Anet was claimed they drop the Taiwan services due to recent Taiwanese law changed. Our new President Ma-Ying-Ju just got on, and no law has been changed. How did they manage to get this so called NEW LAW and rush on closing the Taiwan distract on 04-01?

Anet might not be racism, but their action make us think that way!

We don't know what's really beyond their mind. And their "offical explaination" only explain to people whom doesn't live or knowledge in Taiwan current situation or law.

You do not understand. The Taiwanese conception of "jurisdiction" is somewhat different from ours, and does not really resemble International Shoe/minimum contacts at all. Article 2 of the Taiwanese Code of Civil Procedure is the governing law here. Since each of us knows little-to-nothing about what it says and how it has been interpreted, perhaps we'd be better off not commenting.

Just because you have no knowledge of the caselaw doesn't mean there isn't any. Carnival is not really relevant to EULA's. ProCD v Zeidenberg and Kloeck v Gateway are both directly about EULA's (and they have opposite results, so the US law varies depending which federal circuit you live in.) UCC 2-207(2) probably ought to govern, but no one seems to ever apply it to EULA's. Finally I might add that most EU countries consider EULA's out-and-out void as a matter of course.

I'm not being hostile, and we're not approaching a flamewar. My advice to you (which you are totally free to ignore) is:
1) In my experience, discussing foreign law about which you know little or nothing as if you did always ends up with you making a fool of yourself. I've made a fool of myself several times that way and have since learned to stop doing it.
2) Discussing law on GW fansites is mostly fruitless. Most people think the law says whatever they feel it should say, and dissuading them from that position is impossible. At most, it can a learning experience about what people with differing viewpoints think is fair and not fair. But you'll never persuade anyone of anything.
3) Trying to show off that you've been to law school by throwing case names around and educating the "uninitiated" impresses no one. In fact, it makes some people think you're an arrogant arse. Particularly the part about "the uninitiated"; I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it really came across as talking down to people. Law school may make you more educated, but it does not make you any smarter. And, if you're not careful, it can actually make you dumber and more closed-minded in some ways. (For example, you automatically assumed the Taiwanese would use "minimum contacts" in their conception of jurisdiction.) If you want to make your point on the forums, appealing to legal authorities that no one here has ever heard of is not very effective; rather try to make your case in plain English (no legalese), appealing to principles (perhaps embodied in particular authorities) rather than authorities.

From the Martian Chronicles:

Listen to Gaile.
Your servers are governed by local law. GW cannot change the world. They, like all businesses, are restricted by local (national) government. Be mad at your leaders. Be mad at your lawmakers. Be mad at your community. Be mad at yourself. Be mad at the lack of change.

Taiwan region and China region are different situation

Taiwan's players did pay money to NCsoft for their account

China's players can get account free , because they still on open beta

And Taiwan region been separated less then 12hours after the offical notice


Not really , some people thought Taiwan and China region are same region , they are not
Taiwan region control by NcTaiwan
China region control by the9

Taiwan's player must PAY money to play Guild Wars
China's player can get accounts for free , because they still on open beta

Let me explain this to you

Taiwan's account has two payment methods
1. buy with once of payment
2. monthly fee

Mosts REAL gw player choose method 1
Because 4 months fee = about once of payment per Chapter

I think only mosts bot or gold seller will choose month fee ... so they can keep avoid the permanet ban - -

There isnt some big conspiracy happening, seriously peeps. You've been given valid reasons but are still in denial.



My homework comes from what has already been said. New laws and blah blah blah. We've already been told before Gaile's post in the thread why they were doing this. So yes, we do indeed know their intentions.

Proof or it happened.

Actually I can and do blame ANet and NCTaiwan

It may be the law limits your ability to do certain things - so what

by restricting the legitimate accounts in Taiwan you do exactly what you said you don't do "have wildly different rules for certain groups of players"

Your rules for Taiwan are now widely different from those for the rest of the world

We live in a global economy now - you will have to deal with local laws without ruining the experience of players

get used to it.

In this decision ANet fails.

We did send email to ANET game support deparment

these are their reply
I suggest them maybe could think about transfer Taiwan ppls' accounts to US region

Ask players to sign an agreement before they can login
If players againt those rules of US region, will be banned forever
Once player login US server,means you controlled by US's law and rules not Taiwan's
(In Taiwan's law, seems game company cant banned players forever
maxinum period is one year)

Then they told me post the suggestion on fansites

Btw, These responds from PlayNC looks like ROBOT answers ...

---
Hello,

Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team. In order to better assist you with this issue, we will transfer your ticket to our Game Support Department. A member of that department will be in contact with you shortly. If you have any further questions, please let us know and we will gladly assist you.

Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team
---

Hello,

Thank you for getting in touch with us to relay your concerns regarding the changes in Guild Wars service to players from Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong. We regret that changes to our game service became necessary as of April 1, 2008. However, such matters were outside our control. In addition, we apologize for not being able to give more notice to players about these changes, but such notice simply was not possible for us to offer.

The game servers for players from Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong are located in Taiwan. Therefore, Taiwanese law impacts how we service and support our games. Because of recent changes to laws in Taiwan, we have been required to make significant changes to the way that people can play our game. Players will be able to continue to engage in PvP with other players from around the world, and they will be able to play PvE with other players from Taiwan. However, due to the new laws, we can no longer support PvE play on a global basis, nor can we allow access to the International Districts from Taiwanese servers.

The new restrictions on how we can monitor and maintain our game service mean that we may not be able to terminate the accounts of those involved in real-money trading. Yet, if we are not able to take action on the accounts of those involved in real-money trading, the entire game community may be impacted by severe damage to the in-game economy. So in order to best preserve the integrity of the game, and yet still allow players from Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau to participate in our game, we have developed the practices mentioned above, which will allow PvE play and trade in a closed environment and PvP play on a global basis.

Thank you for your understanding of this issue and for your support of Guild Wars.

Regards,
The Guild Wars Support Team
---

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Guild Wars Support about this.

We encourage you to consider posting your suggestions on one of the many Guild Wars Fansite message boards. A compiled list can be found on the official Guild Wars web site at http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansites/. By posting on one of these message boards, other players can comment on your ideas, concerns, and suggestions, and Development Team members are able to catch up on what the community wants to see in Guild Wars. Fansite forums make it easy and efficient for us to learn from those playing the game.

Thank you for your efforts in assisting us to make Guild Wars the best gaming experience possible.

Regards,

The Guild Wars Support Team

I'm sorry but that was the dumbest statement I have seen in this thread, maybe all of guru. You cannot just not follow national laws, if they didn't then people in Taiwan would not be able to play GW at all. Would you rather not play GW at all or have a rule changed so that ANet NCTaiwan does not get in trouble? I personally would just find another game but I am sure that many die hard fans of GW would rather just change with the rule.

There is a motto I constantly recall when reading QQ'ing threads like this: "Life is tough, Life is short, Get over it." Not that catchy, and there are many different versions of it, most of them are not that catchy, but the idea of the motto(s) is truthful and a good piece of advice. Stop complaining and deal with life, you want something changed, take real action, not just complain.

Not sure on this but Taiwan is a part of China right? They have been going crazy with internet laws and blocks lately, so if anything I'm sure its more the local area and less Anet on this issue. Sorry for your luck.

You could not POSSIBILY have read ALL the laws passed in a bueracracy of any given country without specific training. The amount of regulations passed each and everyday throughout all governmental organizations is astounding.

Also, the law in question could have been passed months or even years ago but only reccently taken into affect (thus the very specific deadline of April 1st).

I also agree with Azazel's statements and that Mork's is... foolhardy. As a law student, I'm laughing at anyone who thinks a.net is foolish for following the law. How dare a.net not want to be closed down (sarcasm).

Let me answer you seriously

Is Taiwan a part of China?

Let me tell you ~ Taiwan people choose their president by democracy vothing
Any Taiwan people 20+ years old has right to vote ...

China = cant fire a toilet cleaner in Taiwan , cant fire a maid in Taiwan

Is Taiwan a part of China?
I thin you already know the answer now

Btw ~ Taiwan's govement wont block any measage or website on Internet
What you talking about is Mainland China ~ they blocked GOOGLE

It makes me very sad for the amount of people jumping into this thread without reading or comprehending. The only things that can be counted on as "facts" are what comes from the official Anet source - GG. After all, THEY are the ones that are being impacted by new laws etc and so THEY are the ones who have the knowledge and detail to know how they have to react to protect their property.

I am afraid Monk from Ork, you make yourself look foolish by your comments. If a law limits a company in how they can protect their property, then the company has every right to protect themselves. The fact that ANET have concluded that the only way to protect themselves is by limiting the trading abilities of certain countries with others is a perfectly acceptable reaction.
After all , the players can still play the game there - so the players that have paid for the game haven't "lost" what they paid for ie to play GW.
Yes, we live in a global economy with global companies. That does not mean that every company should be forced to accept the "lowest common denominator" of local laws to continue to operate.

Discounting the nationalism from both sides...

Taiwan has its own government and acts independently. It claims independence from China. However, China does not recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. Since China is extremely influential in the UN, Taiwan is not formally recognized as an independent nation, and lacks many of the rights and powers granted to them. China thumps its chest and threatens to retake Taiwan, but it simply isn't feasible to do so. Nevertheless, it's really not a country I'd like to be in at the moment, especially with China's recent growth and power grabs. In short, it is, but it isn't.

How could you know what Gaile say is true or not ?
Do you live in Taiwan ?
I live in Taiwan .
I don't know anything about the new law what Anet say .
Our new President Ma-Ying-Ju just got on , and no law has been changed . How and where and when did Anet to get the NEW LAW and rush on cut off Taiwan's server on 4/1 ?
If the new law is true , why not Gaile show us the change of the new law , or tell us where can we find the new law ?
If the new law is true , I think that Anet should know it a few months ago , but they didn't tell us anything , just tell us the reason after they cut off .
The action let me feel that Anet are lying , a very very big lie .
The fact is Taiwan's players paid for playing like as American or European players , but we have not full service .
That is not fair .

If they were lying, what would be their real motivation? Cutting off a major part of service to a large market is going to cause them fairly hefty losses, it's not something they'd do just for kicks. This is something they would not do unless there were no other options. Unless, of course, their accounting department is staffed with retarded chimpanzees. Racist retarded chimpanzees.

CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY! Anet is out to get the Taiwanese people!

I know that means the restrictions on travel will be removed .
But in fact we can't travel to anywhere , and maybe will be removed .
So I say "removed" .
Yes , we still can play GW now , but it is not full service , right ?
And how many months we still can play ?
Maybe they shut down after a month , even American and European GW still operate .
We also paid for playing like as American or European players .
(we need to pay about $130 to get 1+2+3+en+bmp , I don't know how much did American or European need to pay)
Was I pay fake money for it , so I can't have full service ?
If you were me , could you accept it happily ?
Sure , have many China farmers come to Taiwan's server .
But it is not mean that Anet can aggrieve the right of legal players , even the legal players are few .
Anet should to do is trying to restrain bots and farmers efficacious , not to cut off Taiwan's server .
Because of cut off Taiwan's server , the bots and farmers still everywhere , right ?
I only want to say I am a legal player , Anet are aggrieving my right .

Let me tell you
We can't travel to American or European or Korean district , but you can .
We can't travel to International district now , but you can .
We only can whisper to the char who belong to Taiwanese district , but you can whisper to anyone .
We only can trade to the char who belong to Taiwanese district , but you can trade to anyone .
Anet cut off the connection of the merchant NPC between Taiwanese and International .
If you think that it's right , Anet please let all district be the same , not only Taiwanese .
Is this mean Anet are aggrieving the right of Taiwan's players ?
My definition of full service is we want to have the same service with other district .
Were we paid fake money for playing , so we have not the same service ?

There's your answer. The dilemma is really quite simple (yet tragic ).

Taiwanese law changed so that Anet would no longer be allowed to terminate gold farming/selling accounts.
This left Anet with exactly three choices:

#1. Do nothing and allow gold farmers/sellers from that region to operate freely and unchecked, damaging the economy for all regions across the entire game.
#2. Unplug the Taiwan servers, shutting out Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong players from the game.
#3. Isolate the Taiwan servers, allowing Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong players to continue playing the game, but preventing the unchecked gold farmers/sellers from damaging the economy in any other region beyond the isolated Taiwan servers.

Given how horrifically crappy choices #1 and #2 are, I think we can all agree that Anet made the correct choice with #3, as unpleasant as it may seem.

... means the ability to send whispers to non-Taiwanese accounts has been disabled. So, no, we couldn't even say goodbye to the friends we made in the International districts.

Here I am, recommended so many people to play Guild Wars, and now *I* am the one who can no longer do PVE with them.

It's most likely a law your old government passed some time ago and it just turned active on April 1st. NCSoft/Anet might have known about it for a long time, but made the decision to keep quiet and make a hard cut without giving players the chance to move virtual property to outside server regions.

I agree, this is an unfortunate move for every legit player, who paid for the game full price like everybody on the American/European server. Can't NCSoft give them an option to move their accounts to a legislative "save haven" like the Korean server (just add chinese language districts)?

Sucky, though really instead of terminating the accounts they could allow them to stay, but make a new outpost and force their accounts to remain in that outpost. Make it so that it isn't accessible by anyone else. That way they are completely isolated, the account isn't terminated, and everyone is happy. They can choose to "play" the game but they just wouldn't be able to do much other than wander that outpost. Just my thought, isolate the accounts that offend not everyone. If the law just says you can't terminate, then technically you wouldn't be.

Bull

If a company wishes to market to a global community they will always have to deal with lowest common denominator and figure a way to work with it.

If the main concern becomes protecting their property, they automatically limit market potential.

Our own music and movie industry is an excellent example. DRM limits the use you can make of the digital products you can buy so that it becomes a hassle to copies music or movies (although the copy right laws give the purchaser the right to do so for personal use). Many online music publishers are now dropping DRM (as are some game publishers) because they found that limiting the user's experience in the name of protecting the company' property was actually hurting sales. Even allowing a limited number of copies or allowing only lower quality compressed songs to be DRM free resulted in customers being frustrated - resulting in Apple announcing that their entire EMI collection will now be available in DRM free format at highest quality.

In fact, a recent study showed that the very thing they were fighting was actually increasing sales as people would download songs in order to see if they liked them before buying (I believe the stats were that 1 in 3 people who illegally downloaded songs wound up purchasing the song or CD from the company). By restricting the ability to share copied music, the industry was actually restricting one of its best marketing tools.

They are learning you often must place the ability to sell above the desire to protect their property in order to do business. Online gaming companies are going to have to do the same thing.

As time goes by more and more countries will be passing laws that limit what the EULA of online games can do and can not do as governments adjust to the international flavor of these games. Online games have been around for years but huge international gaming communities are fairly recent phenomenon and more and more countries will be passing various laws and restrictions on them. We've already seen discussions here in America about taxing digital assets such as online gold and virtual property. Although it seems to be DOA at this point, it demonstrates that Taiwan is not the only country struggling with what rights belong to the company, what rights belong to the government, and what rights belong to the consumer.

Taiwan, it would seem according to Gaile's statement, has decided that ownership of online gold belongs to the customer rather than the company and therefore the company can not ban players for selling what the government has decided is the consumer's property. (I would be a little surprised if we do not see other countries eventually do the same since allowing sale of online assets can result in taxes which are very attractive to any government)

Online gaming companies have created a whole new international situation to which governments are just now starting to adjust - and not just in the area of who owns the rights to online gold. Because these games provide international communication there are also going to be issues of how to prevent them from being used as communication modes for smuggling and terrorism as well as a whole host of other issues.

As they do so, the companies themselves will have to adjust to work with local laws while providing their players in those countries with the full experience of the game - including international communication and exchange (which is one of the reasons games like this become popular to begin with)

Those that figure out how to do so will survive.

Those who don't won't.

Actually I believe what Gaile was trying to say is that Taiwan and such have made laws against perma banning but thats how Anet deals with RMT. She wasn't saying that the countries thing gold should belong the people playing.