Expertise
Enix
Boooo... bad suggestion. So that means that Energy Storage should only work for Ele skills? Expertise makes the game fun for Rangers, not always being stuck with a bow.
Kaida the Heartless
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Originally Posted by RotteN
"Time to go reread your own capslocked text i guess...
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I did not say "Rangers will not directly beat other classes."
This means that a Ranger can surpass a class by being "generally" better than it. Learn comprehension.
The rest of your post dealt with build wars and stating the logical about an old saying. I won't even address it.
Just below him is another retard who clearly missed my above statement that this thread isn't just pertaining to the R/D.
Finally, below that is a post pertaining to the stupid, illogical concept that because one primary is being looked at, all of them need to be adjusted.
I don't know but if I hit the refresh button I'd probably see a few more posts by ignorants who refuse to read the recent chatter.
Amazing.
Credit to RotteN for this comment though. The only decent point made in quite a while: "I'd rather have them not change it than pull some half-assed fix on it making everything even worse."
Mr. Undisclosed
Tbh I like expertise the way it is, rangers are suposed to be a versatile class.
upier
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Originally Posted by DOCB22
oh yes they did such a good job with Soul Reaping let's get them to change Expertise /sarcasm off
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Although Expertise IS broken - we are dealing with A.Net.
So you might as well take the lesser of two evils.
(BUT that still means expertise IS broken and if A.Net actually starts acting like they have a clue to what they are doing - they SHOULD fix it!)
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Originally Posted by lord of all tyria
What's broken? RaO, scythes. Nothing was wrong with expertise before that, so expertise isn't the thing that breaks it now.
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A primary attribute should make playing the corresponding class easier.
We are dealing with an unbalanced concept when that becomes easy rather then easier.
Now I am not saying that rangers and necros (just for example) can not be played well.
The problem is that they require LESS knowledge of the game then certain other classes to play at a given level. And since all classes should be on the same playing field and the more skilled players should do better - this is an issue.
Luminarus
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Originally Posted by Marverick
Seriously, just make [Escape] end on attack. I mean, you don't exactly attack while you're escaping... that'll fix all the R/D problems. Please don't screw expertise over any more.
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The problem is not escape in the R/D build. Its the fact that they can run an insane single character spike, on a tanky character without using an elite. If it needed an elite on the build to be useful, escape would get dropped in an instant.
RotteN
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
I clearly said "Rangers will not directly beat other classes at their roles."
I did not say "Rangers will not directly beat other classes." |
In my book they both serve the roll of an offensive frontline, ment to kill things. By stating the ranger variant would beat the other class you are saying he's better at that role.
This doesn't count directly for the R/N or R/P though, since they function quite differently from the actual classes basic playstyle.
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
Credit to RotteN for this comment though. The only decent point made in quite a while: "I'd rather have them not change it than pull some half-assed fix on it making everything even worse."
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Kaida the Heartless
For example, there is no way a Thumper is going to beat a Hammer Warrior in their role of straight DPS. Won't happen. The way a thumper excels is through multiple disruptions to shutdown the enemy and achieve the victory using the same general concept (knockdowns and damage). Basically, the Thumper drops a bit of DPS, but gains advantages in so many other areas that it makes up for it.
The thumper is also quite likely to beat a Hammer Warrior placed in a 1v1 scenario, assuming neither has any adrenaline built initally. With more frequent knockdowns and disruptions, it's going to be much harder for the Warrior to get his combo off, which also takes longer to charge. I realize alot of this depends on the player and the bar, and I'm not saying that the Warrior can't win, but it is much easier for the Thumper to win.
I'm hoping this has elaborated a lil?
The thumper is also quite likely to beat a Hammer Warrior placed in a 1v1 scenario, assuming neither has any adrenaline built initally. With more frequent knockdowns and disruptions, it's going to be much harder for the Warrior to get his combo off, which also takes longer to charge. I realize alot of this depends on the player and the bar, and I'm not saying that the Warrior can't win, but it is much easier for the Thumper to win.
I'm hoping this has elaborated a lil?
pumpkin pie
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Originally Posted by Chronos the Defiler
snipped
I just don't understand why it is still like this, it is a stupid mechanic :/ snipped |
and this thread wouldn't even exist.
Diddy bow
These builds are more life a few gimmicks than acctually game breaking so i dont see why expertise needs a nerf.
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Luminarus
Sorry to burst ur bubble mate, but escaping does NOT mean you dont attack. I know for a fact that in a retreat people lay down cover fire to ENABLE their escape.
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Originally Posted by Kaida The Heartless
And yes, prot spirit is a counter for meteor blast unless your prot spirit lasts less than 7.7 seconds.
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lawlz
Kaida the Heartless
It counters it, doesn't it?
Scythe O F Glory
Alright, you can't just say "dont nerf it it can be countered." ANYTHING can be countered. But who wants to waste their time and skill slots bringing a counter for a build that your not gonna see EVERY TIME. it's like going into RA as an anti-caster and theres no casters on the other team. Only that's not that big a deal since casters are more abundant than specifically escape scythes and thumpers. seriously.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory
Alright, you can't just say "dont nerf it it can be countered." ANYTHING can be countered. But who wants to waste their time and skill slots bringing a counter for a build that your not gonna see EVERY TIME. it's like going into RA as an anti-caster and theres no casters on the other team. Only that's not that big a deal since casters are more abundant than specifically escape scythes and thumpers. seriously.
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Yes my vision has slightly changed on this, but I really think that just taking out these three skills will sort it out for the most part.
Scythe O F Glory
well you gotta take out rending touch too, i mean it seems that skill was jsut made for rangers not dervishes. dervs with no enchantments=bad unless they remove there enchantments on purpose (yeah i made a build useing pious assault and twin moon sweep WITH enchantments)
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
It counters it, doesn't it?
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Basically, it's not Expertise that needs a nerfing, unless you hate versatility, but it is about 2 or 3 skills that could use a debuff.
Kaida the Heartless
But that logic was that since it can be countered, it doesn't need a nerf.
It's not versatility I hate. I hate being able to use skills better than other classes just because I dump a few points into a primary.
Ever seen a talented gameplayer on these roles? They steamroll things because Expertise is the easy button.
Besides, everyone acts like theres blind ogre on roids holding the nerf bat. 4% Ranger, 2% Else. You can still have your builds; now you can't spam with them.
It's not versatility I hate. I hate being able to use skills better than other classes just because I dump a few points into a primary.
Ever seen a talented gameplayer on these roles? They steamroll things because Expertise is the easy button.
Besides, everyone acts like theres blind ogre on roids holding the nerf bat. 4% Ranger, 2% Else. You can still have your builds; now you can't spam with them.
Tender Wolf
Everyone says certain professions are too overpowered. The expertise is fine the way it is. Me, I only use ranger skills anyway but I'd hate to see my primary attribute nerfed because of all the QQ.
While we're at it, let's nerf the assassin's critical strikes so they only count toward dagger mastery, and leadership so that it only effects paragon shouts or chants (since warriors also have them and I see a lot of P/W's).
While we're at it, let's nerf the assassin's critical strikes so they only count toward dagger mastery, and leadership so that it only effects paragon shouts or chants (since warriors also have them and I see a lot of P/W's).
FlamingMetroid
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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf
and leadership so that it only effects paragon shouts or chants.
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Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
But that logic was that since it can be countered, it doesn't need a nerf.
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Kaida the Heartless
Thanks for stating my point. I'm pretty sure people have been adjusting thier builds all over every form of pvp (except gvg where coordination can beat it). Nerf expertise.
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
Thanks for stating my point. I'm pretty sure people have been adjusting thier builds all over every form of pvp (except gvg where coordination can beat it). Nerf expertise.
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traiss7
i dont think expertise needs a nerf. i love it the way it is
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
RA, HA, TA... I haven't seen anything get touched just to deal with the Melee Rangers.
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I'm not sure if it was nerfed and I know it's inherantly broken in itself, but I do recall it previously getting nerfed because it had both Frenzy and Rush integrated while keeping a stance open with the only downside being the huge cost.
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't RaO previously get nerfed because of abuse of melee weapons, or was it because it spawned numerous overpowered gimmicks?
I'm not sure if it was nerfed and I know it's inherantly broken in itself, but I do recall it previously getting nerfed because it had both Frenzy and Rush integrated while keeping a stance open with the only downside being the huge cost. |
I'll let the bolded text sink in for a little bit while this thread gets /closed.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
Yeah, but that was a skill, not an attribute. It was raised to 25 energy because Expertise isn't good enough to give it basically no downside. Now you almost have to drain all of your energy to use it.
I'll let the bolded text sink in for a little bit while this thread gets /closed. |
And the skill was still changed due to a thing to do with Rangers abusing secondaries. Oh, and you can still use this with practically no downsides.
I'm not bothered about Expertise anymore, but taking Escape out of the scene and making Hammer Bash only work at 5 Strength would get rid of these. That or nerfing RaO further.
By the way, I really do doubt this'll get closed because of the time it's been open, but this thread could have remained dead.
Kaida the Heartless
They made it so you have to drain all of your energy to use it on purpose. That was the whole point of raising it's cost. Before, you could use it with nearly NO cost because Expertise was working TOO good (and it still is).
Axagoth Baal
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Your post didn't imply only the attribute, Expertise.
And the skill was still changed due to a thing to do with Rangers abusing secondaries. Oh, and you can still use this with practically no downsides. I'm not bothered about Expertise anymore, but taking Escape out of the scene and making Hammer Bash only work at 5 Strength would get rid of these. That or nerfing RaO further. By the way, I really do doubt this'll get closed because of the time it's been open, but this thread could have remained dead. |
IrisLee
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Originally Posted by Orange Milk
Rangers have been versitle since day one, they were created versitile thats the whole point.
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This basically says everything, if people are going to start QQ'ing about rangers being versatile then i don't know what else to say, what do you want?
If Rangers weren't versatile then it'd kinda take out the point of being one, they're supposed to be a class of survival, wilderness and all that RPG junk, take out the versatility it's just another ranged class like any other "Mmorpuger".
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Oh, and you can still use this with practically no downsides.
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With 13 expertise and 14 beast mastery, it's still running at ~0.86 Energy per second, and Rangers have a 1 Energy per second regen.