Topic. Simple question. Simple philosophical question.
Aside from the Prot Bond nerf 2 years ago, ArenaNet has done nothing to that borderline abusive farming technique.
Why was the 55 build never majorly nerfed?
Zinger314
Bowstring Badass
Because the skills in the bar are garbage when alone except for prot spirit. Besides nerfs to farming areas cause less of an uproar.
Pupu
if prot spirit was nerfed the whole population of gw would drown from the tears of whinging noobs. /endoff
Croco Clouds
same for my raptor cave
Xx_Sorin_xX
that and im not sure that theres a great way TO nerf it without destroying skills
besides, often for farming they just screw around with the means of offense/nerfing the place being farmed.
besides, often for farming they just screw around with the means of offense/nerfing the place being farmed.
Winterclaw
Izzy said something along the lines that Prot Spirit is too important to nerf. So as long as you have regen skills, 55ing will live on.
Bowstring Badass
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pupu
if prot spirit was nerfed the whole population of gw would drown from the tears of whinging noobs. /endoff
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Sergeant of Marines
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pupu
if prot spirit was nerfed the whole population of gw would drown from the tears of whinging noobs. /endoff
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Zinger314
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Originally Posted by Xx_Sorin_xX
that and im not sure that theres a great way TO nerf it without destroying skills
besides, often for farming they just screw around with the means of offense/nerfing the place being farmed. |
Winterclaw
480 is the max base HP. You've been playing WoW too long.
Plus what about DP? If someone dies, PS would be harder pressed to keep them alive.
Plus what about DP? If someone dies, PS would be harder pressed to keep them alive.
Zinger314
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
480 is the max base HP. You've been playing WoW too long.
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Still, the point still stands.
Maria The Princess
what does not make sence in the 55 MONK build is the fact that all 5 superior runes dont stack in attribute wise, but the health loss still stacks. Logically, only eles should be able to 55 since they have 5 attributes, and other classes only have 4.
if they WANTED to nurf the 55 monk (the most effective class to 55 with) tehy would just make the negative HP not to stack if the attributes bonuses dont stack. Or just remove the -50 item, but people would find a way around it with DP and -20 focuses.
i am guessing that they are keeping it on to not make the farmers (NOT botters) who actually play and farm to get armor/weapons turned away from the game. yes sure there are other farming builds that are even more effective then the 55, but alot of them didnt get nurfed.
Same goes for the Ele skill Obby flesh, Eles can farm pretty much anything with obby flesh+ stoneflesh aura, yet none of those got nurfed to the point to be unusable for farming either. and i will not even get started on Ursan that can clear FOW in under 1 hour. And there is so many other builds....
My guess Anet still remembers that casual players need to make sometimes relatively small money really fast somehow without dedicating alot of time into it (dungeons, elite areas etc) and a ton of lockpicks.
[edit] and what i forgot to mention, if they would completely destroy the 55 monks, that would probably not stop the botters, since we would just have a whole lot of eles(or whatever) bots instead, so by destroying it the only one getting hurt would be the "average Joe" who wants new armor or whatever. Not everybody has an ele or knows how to use it to farm, just like not everybody has a monk and knows how to farm on it i guess....
if they WANTED to nurf the 55 monk (the most effective class to 55 with) tehy would just make the negative HP not to stack if the attributes bonuses dont stack. Or just remove the -50 item, but people would find a way around it with DP and -20 focuses.
i am guessing that they are keeping it on to not make the farmers (NOT botters) who actually play and farm to get armor/weapons turned away from the game. yes sure there are other farming builds that are even more effective then the 55, but alot of them didnt get nurfed.
Same goes for the Ele skill Obby flesh, Eles can farm pretty much anything with obby flesh+ stoneflesh aura, yet none of those got nurfed to the point to be unusable for farming either. and i will not even get started on Ursan that can clear FOW in under 1 hour. And there is so many other builds....
My guess Anet still remembers that casual players need to make sometimes relatively small money really fast somehow without dedicating alot of time into it (dungeons, elite areas etc) and a ton of lockpicks.
[edit] and what i forgot to mention, if they would completely destroy the 55 monks, that would probably not stop the botters, since we would just have a whole lot of eles(or whatever) bots instead, so by destroying it the only one getting hurt would be the "average Joe" who wants new armor or whatever. Not everybody has an ele or knows how to use it to farm, just like not everybody has a monk and knows how to farm on it i guess....
IlikeGW
Probably because they balance for PVP and don't really care what you do in PVE unless it's a bug.
bhavv
Farming was destroyed already by loot scaling, and there are far more efficient solo farming builds then 55 hp monks *cough ellys cough*
natural_Causes
They did sort of nerf it with loot scaling. Atleast the solo 55'ers
bhavv
Well, they did nerf mystic regen actually. I guess that mending and healing breeze should also be nerfed then because regen is so imba.
Chthon
Hypothesis 1: A-net doesn't really give a shit about PvE.
Hypothesis 2: A-net may care about PvE, but not as much as PvP. Prot Spirit is to root of 55 builds, so that's what would have to be nerfed to really break all 55 builds for sure. But doing so would hurt a vital PvP skill, so they won't do it.
Hypothesis 3: A-net decided that they actually like this farming thing (and that running thing too), so they've decided to tolerate alternative ways to have fun playing the game so long as they don't bugger up the economy too badly for everyone else.
Hypothesis 2: A-net may care about PvE, but not as much as PvP. Prot Spirit is to root of 55 builds, so that's what would have to be nerfed to really break all 55 builds for sure. But doing so would hurt a vital PvP skill, so they won't do it.
Hypothesis 3: A-net decided that they actually like this farming thing (and that running thing too), so they've decided to tolerate alternative ways to have fun playing the game so long as they don't bugger up the economy too badly for everyone else.
slowerpoke
55 isnt invincible
like most other farming builds its use is limited to a narrow range of areas.
and it is limited to farming, noone uses it for general pvx
not that it matters, all solo farming is pointless under loot scaling.
question is, why do you want it nerfed, apart from obvious flame baiting
gb2/wow
like most other farming builds its use is limited to a narrow range of areas.
and it is limited to farming, noone uses it for general pvx
not that it matters, all solo farming is pointless under loot scaling.
question is, why do you want it nerfed, apart from obvious flame baiting
gb2/wow
bhavv
Best idea ever.
Change prot spirit to affect the next 1...3 times only.
Idea taken from watch yourself nerf.
More realistically, make it the same number of attacks as spirit bond.
^^ love the above post by slower poke. Perfectly said.
Change prot spirit to affect the next 1...3 times only.
Idea taken from watch yourself nerf.
More realistically, make it the same number of attacks as spirit bond.
^^ love the above post by slower poke. Perfectly said.
Shayne Hawke
Most skills used in farming builds like 55s or Invincimentalists are usually unique in purpose or are so core to overall gameplay that they require staying as they are, because adjusting them too much would ruin their possibility of being used.
Your suggestion for making it work only with base HP, however, seems like it would be a pretty interesting change. Normal duration changes won't do, and changing how much it maxes at (50%, lol) would be even more drastic of a change. Other creative ideas need to be thrown out to come up with something that would do it.
I would like to ask, though, what you hope to achieve by nerfing 55s.
Your suggestion for making it work only with base HP, however, seems like it would be a pretty interesting change. Normal duration changes won't do, and changing how much it maxes at (50%, lol) would be even more drastic of a change. Other creative ideas need to be thrown out to come up with something that would do it.
I would like to ask, though, what you hope to achieve by nerfing 55s.
Ate of DK
Very simple to answer:
1. The 55-hp build has no use in PvP against normal teams.
2. And nobody cares what people do in PvE.
1. The 55-hp build has no use in PvP against normal teams.
2. And nobody cares what people do in PvE.
creelie
I too have seen Izzy say that Protective Spirit is too important to nerf. 55 builds were never the ONLY way to solo farm, and with lootscaling Anet delivered a major blow to solo farming without touching a single skill.
Carinae
Well, they put the -50 offhand in the game from the start...so I think it's an intended oddball strategy....for better or worse.
bhavv
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I would like to ask, though, what you hope to achieve by nerfing 55s.
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Cry cry.
Oh wait a minute, Anet has ALREADY done that.
[email protected]@ck
Well, if you read the the loot scaling article, it said that the "main" reason loot scaling was introduced was because gold selling sites. They actually want you to farm because they say it encourages trading between players. They actually recommend you solo farm, thats why everyone is hoping for the loot scaling to go away since they can now ban ip address since the RMT policy.
A-net dosen't give a s--t, as long as you don't take advantage of farming and sell you loot to people for cash.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Devel...Feb-April_2007
A-net dosen't give a s--t, as long as you don't take advantage of farming and sell you loot to people for cash.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Devel...Feb-April_2007
Antheus
As long as Ursan exists in its current form, let's not cry about prot spirit, shall we.
Prot spirit is a powerful skill, which has a perfectly legitimate use.
It has blood req, so it was meant for saccers.
Prot spirit is a powerful skill, which has a perfectly legitimate use.
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I MP I
Why nerf it? It's only one of the ways to farm stuff in this game. There are other builds to farm with out there. Even if 55ing gets a nerf one day (not likely though this game is dead and nobody at Anet really cares) the other builds will still exist. It also doesn't matter since it doesn't affect pvp.
Food
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Originally Posted by Maria The Princess
what does not make sence in the 55 MONK build
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Lol, but back on topic, nerfing a 55 bar would pretty much cause the GW economy to crash, seeing that ~80% of the farming population uses a 55 bar of some sort of another, nerfing prot spirit will cause the farmers/bots to cry/quit and prices of goods will shoot up. Not only that, but the PvP community will go apeshit, knowing that one of the key skills used in our backline is now not viable. So, no, Izzy hasn't and probably will never nerf 55ing.
MisterT69
No reason to nerf, 55 doesn't kill the economy either. It's a quick way to make some cash. The best money is made in groups in elite areas, like Slaver's or UW/FOW Hm clears.
Phoenix Tears
if they want to get rid of it, anet would have to:
- remove the -50HP cesta
- reduce the negative effects of superior runes from -75 HP to -60 HP (is imo absolutely enough, -75 hp was imo ever way too strong malus, even higher malus got reduced with the tiem from -50hp to -35HP and what has it brought ? nearly nothing ...)
those -hp malusses are imo so or so crap, there are better ways to give runes malusses from strength and theoretically seen, there is absolutely no need at at, that higher/superior runes should have malusses at all.
Thoses runes have them only, because otherwise would be superior runes too "elite" and their prices in economy would rise alot higher.
acturally would become all superior runes finally really something worth then, and not only the superior rune of vigor -.-, if anet would remove those retarded maluses of higher/superior runes.
There are better ways to balance the power differences of runes, other than to punish players with health loss, what is totally ridiculous.
Thats like, as if hold in 1 Hand an Apple, then you upgrade your apple through buying a Honey Melon, but therfor you will lose 20% of your Toothes >.>, therfore, that you have now a honey melon, instead of an simple apple ...
oh ya, some things of GW are/were really cool, but also at many things of this game#s gameplay, you can only laugh at and think:
What the heck must have the dev's taken for drugs, when they thought out these gameplay concepts.
But however, lets hope the devs will learn of their failurs from GW1 and won't redo them all in GW2, like little newbs, which fall on the same tricks twice (or more)
- remove the -50HP cesta
- reduce the negative effects of superior runes from -75 HP to -60 HP (is imo absolutely enough, -75 hp was imo ever way too strong malus, even higher malus got reduced with the tiem from -50hp to -35HP and what has it brought ? nearly nothing ...)
those -hp malusses are imo so or so crap, there are better ways to give runes malusses from strength and theoretically seen, there is absolutely no need at at, that higher/superior runes should have malusses at all.
Thoses runes have them only, because otherwise would be superior runes too "elite" and their prices in economy would rise alot higher.
acturally would become all superior runes finally really something worth then, and not only the superior rune of vigor -.-, if anet would remove those retarded maluses of higher/superior runes.
There are better ways to balance the power differences of runes, other than to punish players with health loss, what is totally ridiculous.
Thats like, as if hold in 1 Hand an Apple, then you upgrade your apple through buying a Honey Melon, but therfor you will lose 20% of your Toothes >.>, therfore, that you have now a honey melon, instead of an simple apple ...
oh ya, some things of GW are/were really cool, but also at many things of this game#s gameplay, you can only laugh at and think:
What the heck must have the dev's taken for drugs, when they thought out these gameplay concepts.
But however, lets hope the devs will learn of their failurs from GW1 and won't redo them all in GW2, like little newbs, which fall on the same tricks twice (or more)
kazjun
Not sure how you'd nerf it apart from PS, which we need.
Though if anet was serious about stopping this, they could just put more vamp damage or interruptors and enchant strippers in mobs.
Though if anet was serious about stopping this, they could just put more vamp damage or interruptors and enchant strippers in mobs.
thejerk
bhavv
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Originally Posted by kazjun
Though if anet was serious about stopping this, they could just put more vamp damage or interruptors and enchant strippers in mobs.
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Soul Saver
Anet wouldn't directly nerf 55s because it is used by so many people at some time. They change the environment instead, the game, the mobs, just making it harder for you to farm in general.
kazjun
Yeah, gotta love dying nightmares. Hated by pretty much all 55's (if they catch you without SB) but wand fodder to anything else 
Was pretty dissappointed when HM came out and it was pretty much the same except with bigger numbers. Was hoping for decent enemy builds but I guess I was hoping for to much. Though GWEN uses plenty of mobs that run semi player builds so that's somewhat improved a bit
Was pretty dissappointed when HM came out and it was pretty much the same except with bigger numbers. Was hoping for decent enemy builds but I guess I was hoping for to much. Though GWEN uses plenty of mobs that run semi player builds so that's somewhat improved a bit
Maria The Princess
umm they dont need to nurf any skills to nurf the 55, they just have to remove the effect that 5 runes stack in health penalty and not in attributes. we cant stack vigor runes, so how come 2 superior runes of the same attribute stack in health loss but not in attributes?
and ok, if they nurf Prot spirit, we will have a whole bunch of ele bots instead, so that wouldnt do anything for bots
and ok, if they nurf Prot spirit, we will have a whole bunch of ele bots instead, so that wouldnt do anything for bots
Racthoh
Minimum 20 damage clause, does nothing to PvP.
Probably didn't nerf it because that would've been the easiest way to stop bots when they first started to show up.
Probably didn't nerf it because that would've been the easiest way to stop bots when they first started to show up.
bhavv
Nerfing the health loss stacking for runes wouldnt work because you could just get killed and use death penalty instead. Would make it a lot harder, but it would still be possible.
Lothlorian Sassun
55 is here to stay... live with it... love it... hate it.. who cares...
Mr. Undisclosed
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Originally Posted by Food
Lol, but back on topic, nerfing a 55 bar would pretty much cause the GW economy to crash, seeing that ~80% of the farming population uses a 55 bar of some sort of another
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