Why was the 55 build never majorly nerfed?
Esan
I am continually amazed at how easily this community is trolled, repeatedly, week after week.
bhavv
The GW economy cant possibly crash any more with loot scaling in place.
Maria The Princess
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bhavv
Nerfing the health loss stacking for runes wouldnt work because you could just get killed and use death penalty instead. Would make it a lot harder, but it would still be possible.
|
removing the -50 item + the HP loss stacking (which doesn't make any sence whatsoever) would make the monk way too high, and he would have to suicide after every mob a few times. in those conditions might as well just go ele...
bhavv
Elly ftw.
I wasted a character slot on a farming monk, all he does now is look pretty in pink armor.
I wasted a character slot on a farming monk, all he does now is look pretty in pink armor.
hallomik
A 55 monk is one of many, many, many solo farming builds. Rather than spend all their time nerfing this or that skill to prevent mass farming, Anet implemented loot scaling which fixed all farming builds now and forever more.
Anet has stated they have nothing against farming, solo or otherwise, so they do not target skills that affect farming anymore. Dev's have stated that skill balancing these days is almost exclusively for PVP, as it really should be.
Anet has communicated they do have a problem with a player being able to earn 10-20 times more than a player playing normally. This is damaging to the economy, says Anet, and attracts "bots" like an Acme Electro-Magnet (that is my characterization - not Anet's). Loot scaling fixed that by constraining farming output to 2-5 times the rate of normal play.
A basic question like this belongs in the Q&A section of the forum, imho.
Anet has stated they have nothing against farming, solo or otherwise, so they do not target skills that affect farming anymore. Dev's have stated that skill balancing these days is almost exclusively for PVP, as it really should be.
Anet has communicated they do have a problem with a player being able to earn 10-20 times more than a player playing normally. This is damaging to the economy, says Anet, and attracts "bots" like an Acme Electro-Magnet (that is my characterization - not Anet's). Loot scaling fixed that by constraining farming output to 2-5 times the rate of normal play.
A basic question like this belongs in the Q&A section of the forum, imho.
Food
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
Nice job with that huge over exageration.
|
But yeah, on another note, I agree with the above posts, 55ing is here to stay, live with it. It's not affecting any of us, and if you 55, props to you, if you don't, then don't. Go QQ somewhere else please
( Mr. Undisclosed the latter section was not deticated to you if you have not figured that out
)
Winterclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Still, the point still stands.
|
For example:
Basing it on base health... At -30% DP you'd still be taking as much as you did when you were at full health. This would make PS weaker when it is needed the most.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bhavv
Change prot spirit to affect the next 1...3 times only.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by phoenix tears
- remove the -50HP cesta
- reduce the negative effects of superior runes from -75 HP to -60 HP (is imo absolutely enough, -75 hp was imo ever way too strong malus, even higher malus got reduced with the tiem from -50hp to -35HP and what has it brought ? nearly nothing ...) |
2. Might work, as it would increase your HP by 75.
Together they'd put you at 160... 10 regen would be enough to cancel out one hit so long as you don't have any other defenses. That's a maybe depending on the build.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by racthoth
Minimum 20 damage clause, does nothing to PvP.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by food
Lol, but back on topic, nerfing a 55 bar would pretty much cause the GW economy to crash, seeing that ~80% of the farming population uses a 55 bar of some sort of another, nerfing prot spirit will cause the farmers/bots to cry/quit and prices of goods will shoot up.
|
lrishmonkey
Mystic Regen. Wasn't a horrible nerf, but it scared the people when it first happened.
bhavv
Avatar of wealth
Spells targetting you fail and attacks against you fail. You move 33% faster and deal 100 damage from melee attacks. Loot Scaling is disabled on the whole map.
The next time you get a rare drop, you die and are automatically sent back to the nearest outpost.
Spells targetting you fail and attacks against you fail. You move 33% faster and deal 100 damage from melee attacks. Loot Scaling is disabled on the whole map.
The next time you get a rare drop, you die and are automatically sent back to the nearest outpost.
Food
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Minimum 20 damage clause, does nothing to PvP.
|
bhavv
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Food
Are you serious? Do you know how much pressure monks have to deal with if damage taken was increase to a minimum of 20? That's more ridiculous than casting healing sig w/ frenzy up...
|
You wont take 20 damage off every hit, prot spirit would only trigger if you take more then 20 damage, like on spirit bond you need to take at least 60 damage for it to work.
Zinger314
I'm not calling for a nerf now...it's a little too late for that.
Winterclaw
Seeing as how someone with 550 would be taking 55 damage anyways... The only people who'd have to worry about taking a minimum of 20 are people with 60% DP and no +health equipment.
Winterclaw
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
I'm not calling for a nerf now...it's a little too late for that.
|
The best answer we have right now is it was realized early in the game that nerfing it would have too many downsides. The power creep with later games made that even more difficult.
kobey
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Have Prot Spirit be calculated from base HP (i.e. 530 HP), not current maximum (So Prot Spirit reduces damage to a maximum of 53, as opposed to 5-6 in a 55 build). Doesn't break PvP one bit, and completely destroys 55.
|
As for nerf, I think the 55 concept got hit a few times. The nerf to Prot Bond is one, Aoe nerf was one (byebye bal aura and symbol of wrath) and at that tmie i think 55 was the main farming tool people had (so the aoe nerf pretty much affect 55 build), Anet introduced alot of enchant removing mesmer foes.
Thats all I can think of, but despite the nerfs, I guess that didn't stop the clever 55s (not the whiners) from going around the ban and come out with something that works.
Oh and they probably lose about 80% of the monk population (back then) if they nerf 55 too much
.
RedNova88
PS is necessary the way it is. Without it, dare I say, that PvE would actually be hard? If they nerf it to be like WY I'm going laugh and cry simultaneously.
Someone said this a while ago, but PS both breaks and fixes many things in the game. It makes some things wayyyyyy too easy, but on the other hand, without it the way it is many things are nigh impossible.
Someone said this a while ago, but PS both breaks and fixes many things in the game. It makes some things wayyyyyy too easy, but on the other hand, without it the way it is many things are nigh impossible.
bhavv
I remember my first guild I was in kept 55 hp a secret and 'offered' to reward guildies with the the secret of infinate health once they had gotten to lvl 20 and completed the att point quests. They then decided to also run 55 hp everywhere, including arenas, fire island missions, and when questing,
and, well, they failed.
True story, thats how big an impact 55 hp had in early proph, people thought it was god mode and used it everywhere.
and, well, they failed.
True story, thats how big an impact 55 hp had in early proph, people thought it was god mode and used it everywhere.
Joshthor
i personnally am in different on the issue of 55 monks, sometimes they are useful, most of the time there are better options though. they are boring to play and easy to use. 55's used to be useful, but areas have been nerfed so much they arent used in many spots. also, if prot spirit was nerfed to even, say, 20% it would never be used. it is an important skill, great anti-spike, and a very useful skill for prot monks. i loled at the april 1 update with the 50% prot spirit, i was like, "ha ha, stupid 55's have been nerfed to hell"
kratimas
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by RedNova88
PS is necessary the way it is. Without it, dare I say, that PvE would actually be hard? If they nerf it to be like WY I'm going laugh and cry simultaneously.
|
I can't think of a single place in PvE where it would be a must to survive.
Just my opinion,
Krat
Zinger314
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kobey
I am just trying to imagine how Anet is going to word it in the skill description hehe.
|
gone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
ArenaNet has done nothing to that borderline abusive farming technique.
|
-if you're still 55/105ing, you're not 'with it'. they have their uses but there are MANY other farming professions/builds that don't touch prot spirit. are they abusive as well?
Zinger314
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by flubber
So YOU tell US why it is a 'borderline abusive' farming technique. in your eyes.
|
Nothing past Pre-Searing was intended to be soloed.
gone
I'm not talking about 2 years ago champ...we're talking about NOW.
who cares what happened 2 years ago lol. it's over with.
who cares what happened 2 years ago lol. it's over with.
Sol Deathgard
Another simple question - is there anything you do like about this game zinger? if not why are you still playing? & if you aren't playing, why are you bitching about a game you aren't playing anymore?
MarlinBackna
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chthon
Hypothesis 3: A-net decided that they actually like this farming thing (and that running thing too), so they've decided to tolerate alternative ways to have fun playing the game so long as they don't bugger up the economy too badly for everyone else.
|
Back on topic....I think they nerfed it enough to where it wasn't what everyone did anymore. People made monks just to 55 back in the day, hell even bots used 55 monks almost forever. It's just that people found better/quicker farms and the major farming areas were all nerfed. I remember CoF when good things dropped from the hidden treasures all the time and tons of golds dropped, but know its almost not worth doing unless you bring people along.
bhavv
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
2 years ago, I don't think the highest end PvE areas (FoW/UW) were intended to be soloed.
Nothing past Pre-Searing was intended to be soloed. |
A lot of players enjoy playing GW solo like myself.
mr_groovy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Topic. Simple question. Simple philosophical question.
Aside from the Prot Bond nerf 2 years ago, ArenaNet has done nothing to that borderline abusive farming technique. |
Doa or any Elite-Mission was never meant to be c-space, 1,2,1,2,1,2, etc.
kobey
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard
Another simple question - is there anything you do like about this game zinger? if not why are you still playing? & if you aren't playing, why are you bitching about a game you aren't playing anymore?
|
Zinger314
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bhavv
Well there is a solo mission and challenge quest in NF. And we got heroes.
A lot of players enjoy playing GW solo like myself. |
Yichi
Prot spirit isn't the problem with the 55 build. I have argued this all along. The problem is in the game mechanic of allowing sup runes of the same attribute to stack and giving such a dramatic hp loss which allows your character to achieve such a low level of health. Prot spirit is working as it has always intended too, there is absolutely no reason to touch the skill. Easiest answer would be to remove the -50 icon and change sup runes to -60hp (to correspond with majors only being -30)
kerpall
why 55 was never really nerfed... Mystic regen did ge ta shorter time span, harder (but no huge difference) on eenrgy. Aside from that, why would you nerf 55, when you can simply just nerf the drop rates you get when you solo .
.
Masseur
I love how people say, don't go after 55, there are plenty of other farming builds, they will just use those. Ok, so no reason to stop drug dealers since we have murders or other bad guys out there too, they can't deal drugs, they will rob banks or whatever.....brilliant logic.
gone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Masseur
I love how people say, don't go after 55, there are plenty of other farming builds, they will just use those. Ok, so no reason to stop drug dealers since we have murders or other bad guys out there too, they can't deal drugs, they will rob banks or whatever.....brilliant logic.
|
ok..ok...let's take away ANY sort of drug, weapons and monetary systems throughout the whole wide world. and see if there is still crime.
-it's not the drugs, it's not the money, it's not the weapons...it's the PEOPLE.
Gun Pierson
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Masseur
I love how people say, don't go after 55, there are plenty of other farming builds, they will just use those. Ok, so no reason to stop drug dealers since we have murders or other bad guys out there too, they can't deal drugs, they will rob banks or whatever.....brilliant logic.
|
On topic: the same reason why people are still building bridges knowing there's a good chance a troll will live under it
Pleikki
They've done someting. they nerfed that Derv skill what ever it was called. it changed 55ping bit so ppl had turn back oldschool builds so not able do all farms.
tmakinen
ANet knows fully well that some farming is essential for a healthy game economy, and they actually support it. Take, e.g., the invincielle. Before EotN it could have been nerfed to oblivion just by moving Serpent's Quickness from Wilderness Survival to Expertise where it would logically belong. So what did ANet do? They introduced Glyph of Swiftness which removed the secondary R restriction thus making invincielles even more versatile than before.
Loot Scaling addressed the imbalance in the ratio of production of currency and items. Some particular farming spots that were just too good were nerfed by introducing monsters designed to specifically counter the popular builds. Farming pretty much works as intended right now. ANet could kill solo farming once and for all just by requiring that only full parties can enter an explorable. They aren't going to do that.
Loot Scaling addressed the imbalance in the ratio of production of currency and items. Some particular farming spots that were just too good were nerfed by introducing monsters designed to specifically counter the popular builds. Farming pretty much works as intended right now. ANet could kill solo farming once and for all just by requiring that only full parties can enter an explorable. They aren't going to do that.
zwei2stein
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bhavv
Nerfing the health loss stacking for runes wouldnt work because you could just get killed and use death penalty instead. Would make it a lot harder, but it would still be possible.
|
Point is, anet did have ample opportunities to farming 55 without ever touching any skill of 55 bar.
-50 hp cesta
-malus stacking of same runes
-lowering maluses on superior rune trash (counts as ballance for pvp too.)
Shuuda
A-net has more imprtant things to do than worry about some lame farm build that's used by noobs. Eg:
- Balancing PvP
- GW2 (and I not saying that in a bad way)
- Balancing PvP
- GW2 (and I not saying that in a bad way)
Age
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Topic. Simple question. Simple philosophical question.
Aside from the Prot Bond nerf 2 years ago, ArenaNet has done nothing to that borderline abusive farming technique. |
Monk 55
It is not just Monks it is anything now.This thead is what brought me on to The Guru.
FengShuiDove
I'm surprised at how many people took this thread entirely wrong. Good topic, in my opinion, and stated in a pretty unoffensive, unbiased manner.
I suppose the primary difference in what builds get the nerf stick and what gets to stay is PvP manipulation. Simply put, it would be absolutely ridiculous to run a 55 in any PvP setting, even happy little RA has plenty of enchantment removal and degen + conditions going about that render a 55 literally pointless. This is the same reason Shadow Form and Ursan haven't been nerfed *knock on wood*. They don't really affect any form of PvP. I see it as a gift... ANet lets us have some above-viable farming skills that can be used primarily in PvE and not really hurt anyone.
I suppose the primary difference in what builds get the nerf stick and what gets to stay is PvP manipulation. Simply put, it would be absolutely ridiculous to run a 55 in any PvP setting, even happy little RA has plenty of enchantment removal and degen + conditions going about that render a 55 literally pointless. This is the same reason Shadow Form and Ursan haven't been nerfed *knock on wood*. They don't really affect any form of PvP. I see it as a gift... ANet lets us have some above-viable farming skills that can be used primarily in PvE and not really hurt anyone.