Why was the 55 build never majorly nerfed?

Kashrlyyk

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

About Protective Bond: "Before it was nerfed, this skill was the backbone to a 55 monk build for farming UW. According to Izzy, this skill was nerfed not primarily because it was overpowered in PvE, but because a bug could crop up in its use that would crash Anet servers."

Izzy on Overpoweredness of PS: "Your not gonna get an argument from here on this one, I think Prot Spirit is one of the most insane skills in GW, it breaks PvE all over the place does crazy stuff to PvP and is just super powerful. In the end thou the skill is the backbone to the balance of this game, without it the game would quickly become a damage race and I think PvP would suffer greatly from it, I'm not a huge fan of the fact the game is so balanced around this type of an effect but that something I'll keep in mind when moving forward with GW2. Until then this skill probably wont see any change. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)"

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...ed_Skills/Monk

The thing is without PS, they would need to really balance the damage/healing effects of all skills.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

The 55 build was majorly nerfed for those that can remember way back. It's current incarnation is nothing compared to its earlier incarnation when you could throw up Prot Bond, solo by smiting because nothing would run away from AoE, and in particular for UW there were no ravagers that popped up. It may still be way powerful, but nothing compared to what it would be if prot bond was changed back to its original form, AoE was changed back, and there were no more ravagers popping up in UW..

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
About Protective Bond: "Before it was nerfed, this skill was the backbone to a 55 monk build for farming UW. According to Izzy, this skill was nerfed not primarily because it was overpowered in PvE, but because a bug could crop up in its use that would crash Anet servers."
That was a pretty funny bug. I think it was a combination of Prot Bond, Mind Wrack, Balth's Spirit (and maybe something else) on the same target... Basically it sent the server into a never ending circle of calculating damage taken, energy lost, energy gained, and health gained that caused it to crash.

Anet has stated in the past that they don't mind farming. Farming builds have often been unintentionally nerfed in the past as they included powerfull skills that were also having a negative effect on PvP, not because they were farming builds.. As such, I see no reason to nerf the 55hp build.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

55 HP Monks aren't great at making cash at all, Prot Spirit works fine as it is, and there is not a single reason as to why A-Net should nerf it.

Angelic Upstart

Angelic Upstart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

South Coast UK

[SBS] [RETIRED]

W/E

Nerfing PS would cause a shitstorm of biblical proportions from both PvP and PvE, besides its way too late in the game to start thinking of this, as it would require a huge amount of work 'balancing' other skills connected to damage and healing.

unienaule

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR
Anet has stated in the past that they don't mind farming. Farming builds have often been unintentionally nerfed in the past as they included powerfull skills that were also having a negative effect on PvP.
If people would just understand these two, simple sentences, there would be WAY LESS THREADS about skill "nerfs" as far as pve farming goes.

papryk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Nancy

The Autonomy[?????????]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Well, they put the -50 offhand in the game from the start...so I think it's an intended oddball strategy....for better or worse.
agree

12chars.

Dark Kal

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR
Anet has stated in the past that they don't mind farming. Farming builds have often been unintentionally nerfed in the past as they included powerfull skills that were also having a negative effect on PvP, not because they were farming builds.. As such, I see no reason to nerf the 55hp build.
Not adding Dying Nightmares to the UW was having a negative effect on PvP? Not nerfing Griffin farming was having a negative effect on PvP?

Anet only likes to pretend not to care about farming, in fact they do care because farming leads to real world money selling which leads to the dark side. They only fail to understand that there is no way to stop botting and real world farmers from making money, without making the average gamer stop making money. They seem to be finally wising up some albeit without recognizing their previous mistakes.

JR

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Kal
Not adding Dying Nightmares to the UW was having a negative effect on PvP? Not nerfing Griffin farming was having a negative effect on PvP?
I said often, not every case. I can't say I know the logic behind those two examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Kal
Anet only likes to pretend not to care about farming, in fact they do care because farming leads to real world money selling which leads to the dark side. They only fail to understand that there is no way to stop botting and real world farmers from making money, without making the average gamer stop making money.
Have you missed all of Anet's recent actions against RMT and botters?

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Topic. Simple question. Simple philosophical question.

Aside from the Prot Bond nerf 2 years ago, ArenaNet has done nothing to that borderline abusive farming technique.
The Protective Bond combo allowed players to farm UW almost on automatic pilot. In other 55 builds players need to be *much* more attentive to keep the right skill combo's up.

At this stage, 3 years later, it looks a bit silly that PB was made a useless skill, given all the alternatives. And it has become clear that enchantment removal is much more effective than nerfing the enchantment itself. So the question would rather be: Why has PB never been reset to its original state?

Gun Pierson

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberNigma
The 55 build was majorly nerfed for those that can remember way back. It's current incarnation is nothing compared to its earlier incarnation when you could throw up Prot Bond, solo by smiting because nothing would run away from AoE, and in particular for UW there were no ravagers that popped up. It may still be way powerful, but nothing compared to what it would be if prot bond was changed back to its original form, AoE was changed back, and there were no more ravagers popping up in UW..
Exactly, I remember cause I was there. It was majorly nerfed, so end of story. Time to move on.

On a side note: Personally, I find the 55 build a great example of thinking out of the box. My compliments to the founder, it's a masterpiece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box
Why has PB never been reset to its original state?
Would be cool, but I don't think Anet will like it.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by kratimas
I have to disagree with this statement I have never used PS on any of my heroes and I never take the Prot hench and have never had any problems in PvE so, I don't think it would make PvE any harder.

I can't think of a single place in PvE where it would be a must to survive.

Just my opinion,

Krat
OMG I only just read this. Turn on HM and go fight an elly or rit boss nub.

And a lot of people are misunderstanding this thread. It isnt asking for a nerf, it is just discussing why it was never nerfed. It is a harmless topic as Anet will never nerf prot spirit, but it is fun to discuss the 'what if' behind if it was nerfed

Dark Kal

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR
Have you missed all of Anet's recent actions against RMT and botters?
Nope, it's in reference to Anti-farming code, AoE nerfing, nerfing Farm areas in PvE and lootscaling in specific, all attempts to prevent bots and real money traders from making in game gold, which all failed at the expense of the average gamer.

I applaud their new RMT policy which is something that might actually make a change opposed to previously stated attemps.

Tamuril elansar

Tamuril elansar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

N/

prot spirit was never nerfed because its on a short list of ''balanced skills''

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

2 ways to ruin 55ing:

Remove the -50hp
Stop multiple Sup Runes from stacking ANYTHING (att or -health)

That would end up with ~100hp, which doesn't allow you to tank properly, as the regen is wayyy too small.

Problem solved.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Regeneration in GW works to recover full health faster the less heath you have, since it works as 'health over time'.

If it was fixed to heal more the more health the target has 55HP would die. But... the game would change too much and regen would be used by those with more health, and getting high health would be more important.

More than not being able to nerf the thing, is the consequences of nerfing it.
Monks farming is an aberration that should have never existed, and only elementalists should have been the profession that can farm, not warriors, monks necromancers or any other.

But now is too late for such a change.

gone

Guest

Join Date: Jan 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
only elementalists should have been the profession that can farm, not warriors, monks necromancers or any other.

But now is too late for such a change.
you're serious aren't you?

S_Serpent

S_Serpent

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

When not at Aziure's Wizard Tower you can find my in Belgium

Knigths of the Keyboard Order - KkO

why nerf 55hp, raptor, ...?

[start sarcasm]

jeez and the moaning will even become more that the very rare things even go higher in price, and that "player casual" can't afford this or that.

not even thinking about all monks.

Oh wait its already like this, so what would it really change = just nothing

[/end sarcasm]

I like mentioned before 55hp is just a build, its not universal what so ever. It doesn't break the meta

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Serpent
why nerf 55hp, raptor, ...?

[start sarcasm]

jeez and the moaning will even become more that the very rare things even go higher in price, and that "player casual" can't afford this or that.

not even thinking about all monks.

Oh wait its already like this, so what would it really change = just nothing

[/end sarcasm]

I like mentioned before 55hp is just a build, its not universal what so ever. It doesn't break the meta
Jade Scarabs agree with you, XDD.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix
Problem solved.
What problem?

The only problem here is that all these are proposed solutions - but someone has yet to define the problem.

55 farming is no more of a problem than mending wammos. They're everywhere, but they don't really affect anything. Just like wammos, they work in certain places, but are a joke everywhere else.

1 hp bip comes to mind as well. But with Ursan, people have forgotten what that is, although it was a constant member in elite areas. What about bonder monk? It was a major contributor to complete overfarming of Sorrow's Furnace, and possibly a few other areas as well. What about vigorous spirit? Another hugely popular skill for farming. What about 600? Also - imbagons.

Quote:
Jade Scarabs agree with you,
So does Broodmother.

legacyofkain85

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

it will not get nerfed because the only strength in the build is prot spirit,so any nerf to the skill would mean killing it,and ofc it wont get nerfed because it isnt used in pvp.

legacyofkain85

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Have Prot Spirit be calculated from base HP (i.e. 530 HP), not current maximum (So Prot Spirit reduces damage to a maximum of 53, as opposed to 5-6 in a 55 build). Doesn't break PvP one bit, and completely destroys 55.
what would u achieve by destroying the 55 build?doubt mobs in pve qq about not being able to kill them.U could also nerf stoneflesh aura(again) along the way to get rid of terra tanks to ,than no more farming gg.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

The 55 build is actually kinda nerfed in the fact that:

1) You're NOT invincible, you CAN still die.
2) Theres tons of other builds that dont require so much investment
3) You can no longer go into UW, cast enchants, go afk and come back hours later and still be alive even with Aataxes pummeling you. (which was the REAL invincible 55 monk build)

Its a powerful build with very limited and specific use. Its a niche farming build. It doesn't make the game FASTER or easier. You can solo lots of areas yes, but its SLOW. I consider it less abusable than something like Ursan, which can be used ANYWHERE.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

And do not forget, it's used mostly solo or with other monks or a necro partner.

So Lootscaling takes care of anything else.

It doesn't matter if you farm now.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

For the same reason touch rangers haven't been nerfed.

Both were innovative build ideas at the time, and A-Net wants to maintain some semblance of encouraging innovative build development (and sharing).

stale

stale

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2008

canada

Bong Wielding Maniacs

R/Mo

it's because ANet like the thought of innovative builds. most of the actual players on guru don't particularly care for them (look at the various "expertise, soul reaping, paragons, dervs, etc need to be nerfed" threads, and you'll see what i mean)

but the game itself is/was supposed to be about folks having fun with their skillsets, and finding neat combos. touch ranger, wearying scythe/melandru, 55mo/55nec, the 600hp/smiter. anything that works neat together is supposed to be encouraged, until it makes the PvP community (counting myself) actually have to think - then folks scream for a nerfbat. since the 55mo is 0 threat in PvP, it never came up.

Brian the Gladiator

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
Best idea ever.

Change prot spirit to affect the next 1...3 times only.

Idea taken from watch yourself nerf.

More realistically, make it the same number of attacks as spirit bond.

^^ love the above post by slower poke. Perfectly said.
That will never happen because it would kill the skill in PvP... Monks throw it on warriors at VOD so they can frenzy and slap NPCs... by making it next *insert any number here* times only, that would kill this tactic. Really, the only reason why Prot Spirit is worth a dime in PvP is for this VOD tactic and for anti-siege stuff... otherwise, Spirit Bond is the only prot needed.

GloryFox

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

PS was never the problem nor were the skills, it was the -50 & -20 off hands. Another solution would have been to reduce the health penalties to -25 major runes then -50 Superior runes.

In this way the health would be -250 rather than -375 from runes alone.

Fact is ANet wanted the 55 as a realistic build. Otherwise they would have nerfed it years ago. Not by changing the skills but by increasing the health of the 55.

The Red Messenger

The Red Messenger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

America

When i saw the *saurian bone* collector, it was official. ANET supports raptor slaughter >=)

They encourage solo farming now.

RiKio

RiKio

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

Plato's Cave

W/E

Why people complain about 55HP? You have the Spirit Bond Farmah. It still works...

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Doesn't break PvP one bit, and completely destroys 55.
What do 55's destroy?

You'd have to nerf at least 30 other builds for a nerf on the 55 to have any effect. E/* builds, A/* builds, you'd have to nerf quite a bit to achieve the desired effect.

They already nerfed what the 55 was accomplishing with the introduction to lootscaling. There's your nerf to 55.

The build is also fairly fragile. A slight lag slipup will kill you, as well as any enchant removal/heavy interrupt disruption.

EternalTempest

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

There no need, and there are far more effective builds for every job out there.

On top of that anet has nothing against players farming for stuff, they have things against bot / real gold transaction farming.

drey2k

drey2k

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

GYM

W/

If they nerf it people will just find others ways to mass farm.

ty3c

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

no use in nerfing the build, the drops largly SUCK anyways now. let em have the build who cares.

ty3c

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by drey2k
If they nerf it people will just find others ways to mass farm.
too true..............

Sniper22

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

because then the ecto price would sky rocket and all the rich people with their stacks of ectos will be richer while everyone else gets poorer

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by drey2k
If they nerf it people will just find others ways to mass farm.
QFT.

Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse, where players create effective farming builds, ANet nerfs them and the cycle goes on. In the end, there are a whole load of disappointed players and ANet look like nasty spun foilers.

Thats a lot of negativity.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by drey2k
If they nerf it people will just find others ways to mass farm.
No they will quit the game and give up on Anet like The Original 55ers did.This will mean they won't buy GW2 I would miss doing this in GW2.Why Zinger are you so up on this is it because you can't farm you got a Necro go 55 with it but why Zinger?

Esan

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

I propose the following nerf to the 55 build: your drops will be scaled in proportion to your max HP. (Capped at 450 of course -- don't want to give the 600s any strange ideas.)

(Less jokingly, I hope as GW1 gets near the end, the devs throw in some weird nerfs for the epic lulz.)

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
That will never happen because it would kill the skill in PvP...
WTB a sense of humor and transfer it to your brain please.

I was making a reference to the WY nerf to point out how bad it was.

Why have people started destroying this thread by taking it so seriously? It was fun untill now.

None of my posts were serious, this is a 'WHAT IF' thread, not a 'Nerf 55 hp' thread.

Actually Anets april 1st idea for prot spirit was the best one ever.