Changes to PvE Skills, and Consumables

HM UW clear.

5 Ursans
2 HB Monks with Seed
1 E/Me terra

Essence of Celerity, Armor of Salvation, and Grail of Might, all used by the Ursans and Monks. The E/Me doesn't use a PvE skill, and doesn't use a consumable. The E/Me gets the end chest reward, the others don't.

All it takes is a team willing to take 1 player not using PvE skills of consumables.

/unsigned

Yea I only use my monk in elite areas. Getting a team on my ursan-less elly would be a waste of time. And no, dont tell me to just go and get Ursan because I dont ever want it. I would rather prefer steamrolling through vanquishes on a dagger E/A, for the lulz.

While I dont agree with reducing drops for players that use PVE skills and Cons, something needs to be done to encourage non ursan teams that choose not to use cons.

It's a team game. Whatever you use that benefits yourself benefits the entire team. Therefore everyone should be punished the same way.

Most consumables are party wide anyway. In DoA groups the monks (damn those leechers) benefit from the consumables just as much as the Ursan's even if they don't use theùm themselves. In fact they are often the first to whine about the consumables going down.

/not signed.

Consumables and PvE only skills are part of the game, I see is no reason to punish people for using them.

And yes, I've completed DoA, UW and FoW without using any of them, so I'm not talking out of personal interest. Reminds me I should probably display those statues in my HoM, except I cannot be bothered doing that.

Only thing HoM is good for is to retake the primary quests form the pool.

Edit: People would just give their consumables to a single person who doesn't need the statue and he would use them all. So the argument is just about PvE only skills, and that comes down to just being one more thread to whine about Ursan.

I'm not sure how I feel here. I don't like the OP's suggestion enough to sign it, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

I use Ursan, not because I'm in love with the skill, but because it's impossible to find a group for high end areas without it. I enjoy the elite missions and since henchies cannot enter them I'm forced to pug the areas. Nowadays you cannot pug without Ursan and a full conset. This is annoying.

The naysayers in this thread say "if you don't like it, go with your own balanced group and don't use cons!!!". Well you can't. Try finding a group that will accept those terms. You can't. At least not a good group. I joined a balanced team for fow last weekend. When they pinged their bars they were horrible. The team leader was a flare elementalist with 8 of the worst ele and monk skills in the game. The rest of the team wasn't much better so I decided to leave them before we warped in.

I used to hate the 1k entrance fee for fow/uw. Now I hate the 7-8k fee that I MUST pay for a conset before being allowed to join a team. It's ridiculous. These areas are doable without cons. I've cleared fow myself many times with just 1 friend and 6 heroes without ursan and without cons. It's possible but if I don't bring a conset I can forget about ever seeing these areas again.

Just Slash Delete.

Good treatment addresses the root of the problem, not symptoms. In this case, the root of the problem is PvE itself that can't be fixed in GW1. One of the problems with overpowered skills or poorly designed PvE is requirements imposed on PUGs such as r10 Ursan, having a set of consumables or being a certain profession. These requirements make grouping not a very appealing process, forcing you to play a role you might not want to take. An alternative is to organize your own team, but not many people have the experience and knowledge to do that. Thus, it is necessary to reduce prevalence of such requirements.

Since not all PvE skills are overpowered, it would be unfair to punish a player for its use. Once proper adjustments are made to the overpowered PvE skills and consumables (the emphasis is on adjustments, not complete nerfs), we might see more build diversity because the elite area completion time with Ursan would be similar to the one with unholy trinity. In the end, post-Ursan PvE will still have discrimination and cookie monsters. Anet introduced panda to give some CPR to PvE with the least effort. Let's hope that PvE in GW2 will be properly balanced and all professions will be useful and welcomed in groups.

I know the PvE skill and Cons are part of a larger problem, and that something should be done with it (if its not to late already). I however am not so sure this is the right or the only way to go.

I'll sign for a pure fact that something is better then nothing.
/signed.

Anyway, this comes a bit too late, by the time of this thread any ursan should have mallyx, uw and fow statues in their HoM.
I mainly do HM solo (sabway ftw) and the only pve skill I use is pain inverter, I don't think my drops should be punished for that.
My main is a Ranger, got kicked out of ALLOT of DoA groups because of my profession, ursan got me that statue.

Thing is. if you now go nerfing Ursan etc to such a point it makes it the same as running a standard build or nerf consumables. the uproar would make the combined QQ of the Aoe nerf, loot scaling and soul reaping look like a single post on a guilds forum.

Hence the suggestion to do something other than just changing and nerfing.

It's too late to save the patient, but you can try and make their last few months pleasurable. Actually, thinking about it, that may be what the whole super power PvE skills thing may be about...

Which group is worse:

meat shield looking for nukers and healers

or

Ursans r8-10 lf hb monkeys

imo the first group is, people whine that there are only two classes now, Ursan and monks. But with the first group we open it up to 3 classes warrior, monk, and ele. Playing a para, shove off, playing a dervish, beat it noob, playing a ...........get the picture?

Ursan does solve this. If you want to play old school go here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=269

After all it is what everyone who wasn't one of the three classes had to do before Ursan.

droprates are worthless for me
you wanna make it even more worthless?
want me to quit GW while i'm at it?

It's too late to save gw, end with all those anti ursan, anti pve only skills, and anti cons threads, and let everyone get the titles they need to get "cool stuff" in gw2.
Gw pve failed since the begining (instanced pve?!?! roflmao), it's about time to give in, try pvp.
If you don't like pvp, and hate pve because of a couple of skills and consumables, try a new game.
Now, for god's sake, STOP with the ursan and cons whinning, anet won't change it, even if another 200 threads like this come.

Id rather just monk and not have to waste my money on con sets. I like the joyride to FoW chest in an ursan group, which is all its good for.

But that doesnt mean I like ursan. I also used to play necro and later on para healers in IWAY / Rit spike in HA for fast fame farming. They were overused builds that people didnt like, hence they got nerfed.

To argue that balance isnt needed in PVE is the same thing as saying there would be nothing wrong with adding a god mode feature to the game which would allow you to be invincible and one hit kill everything with a wand.

ursan is GW#s answer on their problem they caused to the game due to their unability to fix the problem about the game's issue beign so heavily multi character unfriendly, sicne Factions ...

Self with playing everything ursanway it takes way too much time to grind you a character the way through the game, way too much stuff in GW is character based, especially around titles ....
Ursan is GW's answer on speedign up the progress of getting titles ...if you didn't understood this until today, then sorry lol XD

Ursan is only overpowered due of anets lazy unability to fix other problems. Anet is lazy, they make only ever those things, which are most easily to program, take most lessest time to make and have therfore the most biggest effect for their most lessest effort they took in to try to solve the issues of the game ... what do you all expect from a game please, that charges no monthly fee ??? it was totally clear, that with time, the fixes and changes of the game become ever more cheaper and cheaper, until the game is somewhat of broken, that it becomes irrepairable, without changing lots of the games basic concepts and to change things about its lore to fix some major issues of craptastic failing concepts.

And anet does also nothing, because of the load of whining selfish asses, which would cry rivers, if anet would change somethign on the titles, to make the game again multi character friendly, like it was before the implemention of titles ...

Indeed, not much can be done for PvE in GW1, but threads such as this have merit. The purpose of these threads is to let developers know that PvE has to be designed very carefully, encouraging diversity of builds. GW2 will have a Norn warrior class that will be able to transform into a bear and that alerts me. Our goal is to let the developers know that we don't want to see the same thing that we see in PvE today. Save the kittens - make GW2 balanced!

Source

Shanaeri,

Sorry but I really don't fully agree on your OP.
I see two main problems with PvE skills and consumables.
The first is the 'PUG-style' group. Those would not be able to finish a certain task without those things. That's wrong.
Fair to state but those problems were solved with class discrimination.
Deep/DoA/Urgoz's all had their preferred team builds and in a PUG-style group that was almost the only way with a decent chance to finish.
I think the vast majority of the community has to rely on these kind of groups to get things done.

Second is the experienced organized team.
Those teams can abuse the PvE skills and consumables and make loads of gold doing that.
While that's also not good it's a relatively small problem.
There are not that many highly organized guilds/groups who are actually able to abuse the PvE skills to an extend where it would have influence on other players.

You stated:
Let's talk a little about that player skill.
Like you, I play mesmer as main profession.
I know my profession very well and also most of the game environment.
Getting in a PUG-style group was always hard.
So I have to rely on guild/friends/allies to get things done in the harder areas.
No problem, got my two vanquishing titles and my LG without heavy use of PvE skills. The only one I ever used was CoP (yes, overpowered) and sunspear sig is on some of my builds but I hardly ever use that.

But let's say I would like to play for example FoW HM.
I have access to a decent guild and it would be very easy to get a team together with a 600/smite to play 99% of the area.
The other 1% would require some work from the rest of the team, most likely forrest because of those ranger spirits.
Same with UW, I think several guildies can 55, I can play FC SS or have some guildies do that and leech my way to victory.
DoA? Part of my guild are ex-FLU members, think they know the area well enough to get me through.
Deep? Once LotU (my old guild, most members now in HML) speciality. Done it HM couple of times with the regular steel wall, no cons/PvE skills.
Urgoz's? Some members know the area very well.

What you are surgesting is that the high end PvE content should only be available to the true high-end players.
Sure, but how many guilds/alliances can truely support that?
And how many of those guilds have rather closed core teams that do this kind of things regular and the rest can only wait for a spot to get free or be active enough to get in the core group?
And if you have access, how much freedom is there to learn profession, build and skill?
Perhaps if you are longtime member you get benefit of the doubt but else you just get a build, take or leave.
Stand here, do that, use this skill at that moment.
You want to learn to play water ele? No chance, does not fit the team.
Assassin? Nice try, does not fit the regular team.

Oh and how to get in those guilds?
Common statement here on guru is 'PUGs suck'.
So you either need friends or luck to get into them.

If we are talking about improving player skill, builds and profession usage it's time for the high-end guilds to show what's possible to do with a regular team build, with or without consumables.
I've seen the 'fastest elite area times' thread and how some regular teams do things in amazing times.
It's these kinds of things that would benefit the community and not just 'nerfing' the skills the average player needs because they can't learn because the 'pros' don't PUG that often anymore.

Sorry I'm perhaps being harsh on you but I don't think this will solve anything.
Outposts like GoA, Deep, Urgoz's and ToA abandoned after the introduction of EotN and regained interest again after UB/Consumables. Before that those areas were only accessible with specific group builds. And a lot of them preferred taking known players.
At least now full human PUG teams are forming again, making it possible to meet new players.
Take away the benefit and a lot of the more experienced players will resort to their closed groups again.

If we are looking for overall improvement we should be looking for ways that would benefit teaming up with different builds.

I know. Introduce Hell Mode.

Hell mode is the same difficulty as Hard Mode with the following changes:
- No pve skills allowed on bar.
- No consumables allowed, including old school ones like candy canes and clovers.
- Party cannot contain more than 1 of each profession (or 2 of each profession in Deep and Urgoz). Need more than 1 monk? Bring a rit. Need 2 nukers? Bring a fast casting mesmer or a PBAOE sin capable of dashing out after nukage.
- Vanquishing gives an end chest with a drop appropiate to the # of enemies killed. (The end chest for shadow's passage drops 14 tanned hide squares)
- Areas with end chests already give triple drops. (single drops in nm, double in hm, triple in hell mode)

Let's just hope that gw2 doesn't focus around titles, even better, NO titles at all.

Titles destroyed guild wars main concept of skill > time since the first second they were introduced, I would rather have some uber leet armor or weapon for doing all missions in HM instead of some letters under my name (those armors should have maxed AL depending on the profession, and weapons should be max damage too).

Lol, im up for it. Ill go through cantha with that again, would be awsome to see how frustrating it would be

/not signed - this is one of the worst "ideas" I've ever heard of in here. It's just a whine thread about Ursan and PvE skills...

it actually looks quite fun, search the idiots who think there "leet" from those with actual skill - stops mission runners as well:P no two monks bye bye runners - *waves at smokey* cant run wars (I believe) :P

/notsigned sorry shan but i would kill myself if that happened the developers introduced them skills for a reason all it is the metagame we go through this all the time we all want easier builds than the builds we used b4 ursan now we get them its too good we cant have it both ways if you dont like consums and pve skills fine dont use them but why change the game when its a 50/50 here.
The last builds we used with obby tank etc was 3-4 professions with ursan there is a variety any profession can run ursan with the right build and equipment infact i found ursan made the game better by giving all professions the same chance with their own unique advantages with there primary profession and can all farm the same thing.

I don't agree with you.
Shan has a good point, one that also concerns me.
PvE skills and to a lesser degree consumables do take away knowledge about team builds and professions.

Even I can see how skills like SY/TnTF/CoP or SoL give enormous power to the experienced player. It's not only about UB, however, UB is the skill that the player in an unorganized team would use. Or the experienced player would abuse to get things done fast.
The thing I don't agree on is his solution.

This is what I wrote on our guild website not so long ago in our guild rules:

You may or may not agree on it, it's my opinion and something I will enforce in my guild if needed.

I see the PvE skills including UB as a tool to get things done faster and will (ab)use them when they help. Same with consumables, though I never felt the need to use them except in Ursan groups or when doing things as fast as possible, like the UW event we had last weekend.
But using a sledgehammer as a tool to solve all problems is not the way to play. There are other ways that might be more efficient but people don't use them anymore because they know the sledgehammer works.

No need to apologise. My point is, is that teams did all the elite areas without PvE skills and cons(well maybe not Mallyx but we all agree DoA was Anet’s PvE waterloo). There are and will always be optimal builds for certain areas, always professions that are not as favored. It’s just part of gaming. Those who want to rise to the challenge of playing non favored professions or sub optimal builds can do so, but they need one heck of a good bunch of friends/guilds along to help them. Even GW2 won’t fix that.

I don’t doubt grouping was harder pre Gwen, but if the cost is an even worse discrimination is that a cost worth paying?

This isn’t a thread about the merits of pve skills vs not. More about a suggestion on how we reconcile the clear schism there is in the game for those who enjoy zap and whoosh and those don’t. Because for the average player, there is no other choice for high end PvE, buy gwen, farm norn and pay2-8k per run. This just *has* to be wrong.

Contrary to what many think or see, I love puging, esp in Fow and UW. Since I wont run Ursan(personal choice not a judgement) the number of teams I can help in has dropped drastically. If I did'nt have Gwen, high norn rank etc how would I get in? Does'nt matter what prof I am, so long as I'm r10 Norn and have enough cash for consumables?

I’m not possessive about ideas, but it’s clear at some point Anet will do something about it. I would just like it to be something more subtle than nerfing skills to oblivion or allowing the PvE game to turn into who can farm the most norn and pay the most for consumbales. To have it end up like that would be, in my view a great shame.

started off nice but then i read you opinions on the pve skills and laugh

./nosign for u

Good post and I think I see the ideal solution. What we really need to do is form a list of friends that we know are capable of finishing these areas and prefer not to run Ursan and cons. I'll sign up.

The difficulty is really finding folks that can join during your prefered playing time and finding folks that are at the same skill level as you. Sure there are players that don't want to run Ursan that will jump at this but they could also be that ranger that is shunned from all groups because he owns prophecies only and runs all necro mm skills on his bar.

I signed up for "The Deep" pugging thread and unfortunately each time the organizer has pm'd me asking me to join a team, it has been at times when I was busy with other events.

I wouldn't mind the Ursan/cons teams so much if I knew I had a choice. I'd love to find a core group of players that are interested in elite areas or vanquishing and wouldn't require Ursan or cons. Granted these areas would take longer to finish without them, but you get more satisfaction in the end.

I have located the hole in the anti ursan argument, here it is folks!

Shanaeri Rynale wrote:
then:
bhavv wrote:
The problem is this, the ursan bashers hate them selves. They can't even organize themselves enough to go to toa, add like minded people to friends list and party with normal skills.

In stead they blame the OTHER players, who CAN organize a group of like minded people for a fun and effective time.

If everyone REALLY hates ursan there should be a flood of people in ToA, who are willing to go with a normal bar. Hell I'm sure you could even find some people who would go with no armor LOL...

The anti Ursan argument is weak, at it's best, and I declare it defeated.

I also find it funny, that "bhavv" who is an Elementalist, blames the ursan b/c he cant find a group for uw/fow. Have u ever heard of terra tanking solo UW? U can do all of chaos planes, bone pits, and solo frozen king, while rest of team does slayer, vale, escort, unwanted queen etc etc...

I have a feeling that 90% of anti-ursan argument are from people who I think are too lazy themselves to actually explore what the game REALLY has to offer/rank up in norn, and need an easy target for why they're still poor!


Ps. I DID just read the above post.


MUCH REPSECT, I respect you not attemping to enforce your will on the community. And hey maybe ill join some time... (minus my armor of course!)

because as stated people are lazy as hell and want what they want when they want it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't use ursan for anything other than elite area runs and those I do rarely. I've gotten Legendary Guardian and I'm well on my way to LEgendary Vanquisher without ever using Ursan for an area.

My point is this, when someone makes a "Need help with X in HM!" they almost always add "but I've tried ursan and still can't beat it ". This is what you want to prevent, not that your armours or weapons are losing value but that 90% of players have no idea on how to, well, play :/

It's people like you who are the first to use hacks to gain an advantage, then once you are umber powerful, frown on all those after you who do the same as you.

Your idea is the worst idea I have ever heard to date. Balance is what destroyed GW in the first place. Greed is the second thing that has destroyed GW. For once I would like to hear an idea that benifits the game for all, and not just the eleteist, greedy, ignorant players.

Unfortunately those players will always be here. Most are little kids with no desire to learn how to play. Others just will be lazy. I know this kid that recently beat Prophecies. He was bragging that he was now an "elite" player and always begs to join us for HM stuff. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of his bars and he is far from "leet". He considers himself a great player because he's beaten a campaign.

This same kid skipped the jungle because he heard a run to Sanctum Cay only cost him 1k.

He bought a full desert run for 2k because it sounded like a cool thing to do.

He paid for a run thru Elona Reach because that mission is "just sooooo super hard!!"

He begged a guildie to finish THK for him.

Also begged for help with Ring of Fire.

Yet he's leet because he finished Prophecies!!!!

Not!

I don't mind so much my ideas being called bad, I've had some really bad ones in my time. but I'm sorry Huh?

1. You accuse me of using hacks - I was one of the first people to report a number of exploits, including the Mallyx exploit. Never EVER used one. I kick people from my guild who do, if I went ahead and used them not only would I be an exploiter but a shameless hypocrite.
2. Show me one post I have ever made that frowned upon someone of 'lesser ability'
3. Show me once slice of evidence I have been greedy, quite the opposite in fact. Let me give you some examples

Feb 2007. My idea to collect ingredients for canthan new yet to help people get pigs for free, without needing to pay or do anything. We helped over 3000 people get these pigs
May 2007 My guilds second birthday - we gave away near 2m in gold's worth of items - My idea, I organised it
Aug 2007 - My Alliance sold lock picks at cost price saving people a total of 1.4m in gold
December 2007 - Guild and alliance help an unnanounced giveaway in LA, kamadan and KC for 6 hours. Total value of items given away was in excess of 2m
Feb 2008 - Canthan New Year. We supplied ingredients for 79 districts over a 24 hour period and helped over 15,000 people get the firework crates.
Apr 2008 - Guild and alliance held an UW contest with over 1.6m gold in total prizes.

Let me see if everyone sold their pig for the average price of 15k, the Feb 2007 event would have made the community 45m in gold
add on the giveaways and you get a total of 52m. Add in the fireworks 5 cratesX15,000X200 each and you get a total of 67 million that we have generated and given away for the GW community

Is this the actions of a greedy, selfish person?

Since 2005 I have been running teams with non holy trinity professions to prove to people you dont need a monk, ele or warrior to suceed. The teams we ran cleared UW,FoW, The Deep and Urgoz. Helped many many hundreds of people for FoW Armor runs, for free on my own time. Is this elitist?

As for ignorant, I respectfully suggest to do some research before you throw accusations around.

Sorry, everyone else. Normal service will now be resumed.

My idea may not be the best(some may say understatement of the year =p ) but if not this, then what?

There was no need for this, please keep it kind. It does'nt matter if you disagree or agree, just be civil to each other.

I must say I cannot agree with this at all. I play a sin, and as such, I cannot find non-ursan groups for any elite areas, because those that don't run ursan are "balanced" groups, which use a set team of professions, and I can never get into one. So, because of my profession choice, I must lost all of my end-chest drops? I must be hurt because I am forced by others to use Ursan and cons? No, simply, no. This idea lacks the thought of those who don't want to use the overpowering PvE skills.

I do use Critical Agility, but that is not overpowering, the only skills that are, as I saw mentioned a few times, are "Save Yourselves!" Pain Inverter, and the 3 Blessing skills, especially Ursan. If any PvE skills get nerfed like this, it should be those three only, but as also mentioned in past post(s), "Save Yourselves!" requires high grinding to make it really good, that or fast adrenaline gaining. And as for Pain Inverter, that is most effective against high damage dealers, so in many areas, it is not a big issue. Ursan, with a good monk(s), could clear the entire game without breaking a sweat, especially with cons.

I suggest no change at all because, although changes are favored by the "elitists," and no changes are favored by the "noobs-gone-elitists," any changes would create even more QQ'ing then there is now, and will also create bragging, or should I say, bring back bragging. The only reason why there is constant complaining is because such skills are overpowered. Personally, if I designed the PvE skills, I would never have included the three Blessings as skills able to be gained outside of their respective missions. But just because they are doesn't mean that they should be slaughtered by nerfs, just leave it alone.

I have no complaints about Ursan, even though I dislike using it, and many times I must use it in order to get into a group. But I disapprove of all change suggestions I have seen, and probably will ever see, because they just bring back the old "elitists" to be the only ones who can do Hard Mode and the Elite Areas.

In short, your idea, I disapprove of. Ursan, Raven, and Volfen Blessings, I disapprove of. Other PvE skills, I see no problem with. Changes for any of the PvE skills, I disapprove of.

Edit: just want to be clear, that I mean not to hurt anyone's feelings or sound like a jerk, but this idea just hit my last button regarding ursan, no need to harm all PvE skills, especially treat them like cheats when they are not cheats, they are simply skills that were tested to see the separation between PvP and PvE. At least according to my memory of an article I read. I understand the want to change Ursan, and cons do make things easier, but they were meant to. If ANet meant for them to be "Cheats" then I think they would have put in a code for them, in other words, they would be free*regarding cons* I cannot think of a single game where you pay for cheats.

Lastly, if any of this was already mentioned, sorry, didn't feel like reading all the pages.

Azazel, it's refreshing to see someone who can respectfully disagree with an idea and intelligently state why without resorting to the typical "OMG ur an idiot moron!!!!" flame posts.

Here's my position in a nutshell:

I think Ursan and Pain Inverter are overpowered skills. However I use them when needed to fit into pugs. If I'm given a choice I'll generally use a different elite than Ursan. I have no problems with using Ursan. I also will have no problems if Anet decides to nerf Ursan.

Cons on the other hand are a different story. I love powerstones and use them when needed while vanquishing or in dungeons. (I typically use one in the harder HM dungeons for my heroes. I rarely use while vanquishing and don't need them for nm dungeons or for all human teams). The other consumables I detest and I hate being required to use them in areas that I used to be able to finish without them.

We don't need to make any changes.

/notsigned. I've read through all the posts, good ones all of them except the ones that throw accusations of course. I understand the OP's idea, and the antagonists to that idea. The problem with gw pve was addressed a long time ago by Ensign, who posted that elite pve areas in gw only stressed a return to the core team build of tank, nuker, and healer. This post of his was a while back, and even then elite pve was not fixed. In order to fix that brokenness of elite pve where the majority of players not tanks, nukers, or healers were denied entry into a party was to provide them a means to enjoy that area of the game, hence ursan. Anet is clearly keen on letting players enjoy the game fully, rather than allow a separation to exist between the leet players and the ones that aren't. This was evident when they silently nerfed the Thunderhead Keep mission when GuildWars and Prophecies were one and the same. They did not do this to spite the supposedly leet teams who were able to beat it, but rather to allow the larger playerbase to enjoy the game, rather than struggle with one area in order to advance. I remember there were people stuck there for weeks of everyday playing. Shynaeri [DVDF], I know how you must feel, its exactly how I felt when they nerfed THK, until I came to realize I was then suffering from what I recently came to learn as e-peen, and to simply let others have fun and enjoy the game whichever way they can. And no, I don't think anet will ever make an area solely for leet players, this much is clearly obvious at this point. What I do miss, and what I'm sure most of the OP's protagonists miss, is that willingness to work together which has all but disappeared from most pugs, and the sense of a team accomplishment you got from working together. Also, Shynaeri, thanks again for the DVDF sponsored events at Shing Jea; you guys set a good community example.

An Ursan group is not organised. It takes no organisation other then buying con sets, having 5-6 ursans, and 2-3 HB monks. also, it can hardly be classed as fun. It is literally just a method to get the area done as fast as possible, and the people playing Ursan are only using it for this reason - It is fast, and it gets them their rewards quicker. This does not make it fun.


I dont actually pug, I have played in 2 HM alliances (including the_jos's guild), yet every group created for FoW and UW in these alliances is full ursan and HB monks. They have no place for my elementalist from the start so I just use my monk. Before ursan I would always play fow nuker, but it is now impossible to do that because the people that I play with ONLY choose to use full Ursan groups.


This isnt only a problem with FoW and UW. In my last alliance, everytime a group for a vanquish, mission, or dungeon was being formed, it was ALWAYS an Ursan group. All that was required was 5-6 Ursans and 2-3 monks, for just about everything in the game.


Tell me, what is the point for me, a person who enjoys the build creativity and vast options that GW allows to be stuck playing in an ursan group after ursan group after ursan group for everything in this game? It is tedious, it is repetitive, and it is annoying. Having said that, I rarely ever play the same thing in GW continuously. I probably only do FoW and UW a few times a month, and dungeons another few times with the occasional vanquish in between. However it strikes me as extremely boring if I had to use Ursan EVERY SINGLE time I wanted to play an elite area of the game or on HM with other people.


I can just be glad I have my H/H for everything other then elite areas in GW. Ursan has ruined PVE in this game, but I dont find it surprising that a newbie Ascalonian Squire cant see or understand any of the reasons why. It has removed the need for any other skill or build in the game in elite areas. Everything can now be done with this one 'God mode' skill, and I find it highly ammusing that people run around using Ursan everywhere and think at the same time that they have any skill left in GW.


GW was meant to be Skill > Time. Ursan is Time > Skill. GG to Anet for totally destroying what you originally intended to create in this game. I have no respect at all for such a lousy game development team.

As much as I agree I would also want an overhaul of hard mode itself. It's not like it isn't doable without PvE skills and consumables (since players did have their HM titles done before the introduction) but there isn't a lot of fun to hard mode. It's a poor design, like DoA. Ramping up the numbers doesn't make for an enjoyable challenge, nor does the addition of environmental effects that limits the professions a player should use.

PvE skills and consumables are a bandaid on the larger overall problem with the methods put forward to introduce challenge. When you use both you realize that neither mode is really all that different. You become compensated for that difference in numbers, so when players say that PvE skills and consumables make hard mode normal mode well they're entirely correct. The differences in AI are not even noticeable because they are very minor between the modes.

Basically if you want to remove PvE skills and consumables you need to make PvE possible to the majority without tankandnuke tactics. Level difference damage and critical hits, 20 specced attributes, everything. Is there a reason why an elementalist boss can wipe half a party with one spell? Is that challenging, or even fun? At the same time if I daze that boss any threat it posed is now gone. Such basic tactics can be used to eliminate all of the challenge in this game. Create balanced mobs with better AI so that things like PvE skills and consumables no longer make up for the obvious lack of player skill.

Ursan greatly compensates player skill, grabbing 7 random people doesn't work for a non-Ursan group. If a balanced group has bad players who don't know how to make a good skillbar then the group is going to suffer. Pick-ups are still as terrible as they were when I didn't have an active guild of people to grab.

Right, I only play the game to dress up my barbies AKA pve toons. Ursan Blessing is basically communism. Everyone being an equal, sounds like a great concept right?

Anet add an update to hard mode: No elite skills allowed gogo :P