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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
That is the difference between WANTING to change a bar and being FORCED to change a bar.
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Thw world after tommorow - bringing PvE into the balance equation.
Avarre
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by Avarre
You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you.
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way more.
we have some many crud skills left in the dirt, never used, never seen, laughed at, pushed away by elitism ect... these could be some peoples only skills if they only have a few games, or bought skills they thought sounded good at the time.
i just generally think anet needs to really rethink their strategy for "balancing" skills. its literally just a series of pvp based nerfs every single update now, and its driving the skill pool for both pvp and pve into about 100 good skills to choose from...
i personally would love to see new options open up, new builds swarm GvG/HA, and even some crazy elite zone clearing teams thanks to some skill recons ect. its that unpredictability, that excitement of "whats next" in pvp that made me pay the higher tiers of it... now its just... "oh.. sway..." "oh... escapers.."
Kashrlyyk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you.
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The bar I use is fun, it kills fast enough and I progress fast enough through areas, without steamrolling over every enemy. Now the skills are changed because of PvP, and killings take too long now. Fighting becomes a chore now. So just to get back to that perfect fun happy place, I am forced to change my build.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
Change BHA to 5 seconds daze, which might be enough for PvP, and tell me how it is up to me to change my bar against ele, rit or some monk bosses!
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There are still plenty of viable choices aswell as it too.
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| The bar I use is fun, it kills fast enough and I progress fast enough through areas, without steamrolling over every enemy. Now the skills are changed because of PvP, and killings take too long now. Fighting becomes a chore now. So just to get back to that perfect fun happy place, I am forced to change my build. |
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Who uses BHA in PvP?
There are still plenty of viable choices aswell as it too. As Avarre said earlier, you aren't forced to change your bar because you have the choice to run the nerfed version or change, because the choice is up to you. |
one, the bha quote was an example....
also.. please name another "viable" daze skill for pve lmao
two... playing something like WY! is ludicrous, but it used to be a great skill. thanks to pvp, its in the same bin with Primal Rage.
you wouldn't use garbage from a dumpster to make a cake...
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
one, the bha quote was an example....
also.. please name another "viable" daze skill for pve lmao |
And I ment viable elite choices apart from Daze.
Daze, is just icing on the cake in PvE.
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| two... playing something like WY! is ludicrous, but it used to be a great skill. thanks to pvp, its in the same bin with Primal Rage. |
credit
Honestly, this is a retarded move by Anet. PvE doesn't matter in skill balances, it's already too easy.
W2Fail, I honestly thought that this game couldn't get any worse.
Wrong.
W2Fail, I honestly thought that this game couldn't get any worse.
Wrong.
Ctb
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| please enlighten me how someone's oppinion can be "wildly incorrect". |
Not that this has any bearing on the right or wrong of YOUR opinion, just 'splainin'.
Quote:
| You're not forced to change your bar. You're fully welcome to continue running a bar that's less effective, and you'll still be able to succeed when using it in PvE. From there, you might want to change your bar to something more effective, and that's up to you. |
When you spend your time figuring out how to do something, only to have it broken even though the actual challenge your up against isn't changing, that's just annoying. If the MOBs changed tactics like real players do, that would be interesting. But they're just computer logic, so they don't, so it's just frustrating and feels like a waste of time.
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| Not a very good example if it doesn't get used in PvP. |
Skyy High
BHA is a staple in AB because AB is full of PvE (or just bad PvP) rangers who don't know how to interrupt beyond hitting something with it and then autoattacking.
Just 'splainin'.
Just 'splainin'.
Ctb
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
BHA is a staple in AB because AB is full of PvE (or just bad PvP) rangers who don't know how to interrupt beyond hitting something with it and then autoattacking.
Just 'splainin'. |
Sab
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Originally Posted by Ctb
If I find an effective method of getting through a mission, and the cornerstone skill of that build gets broken the next day, I'm not going to just stupidly blunder through and take ten times as long just because I can. For all intents and purposes, I'm forced to change at least one skill, which often requires other skills that play off of it to change as well.
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Magikarp
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Not a very good example if it doesn't get used in PvP.
And I ment viable elite choices apart from Daze. Daze, is just icing on the cake in PvE. In PvE, ["save yourselves!"] > ["watch yourself!"]. |
not everyone, especially the casual players... get this... own all the games.
anet doesnt even factor those people in at all. not to mention, SY! revolves around a rep title, which is even MORE of a turn off for the non-pvper/casual pve'ers.
you're simply overlooking everything below your level of play, and thats beyond unfair for the general community. not everyone plays Headbutt, FF, Plague sig combos, not everyone has Savior of the Luxons, not everyone is you.
try to be a little more reasonable, because at the moment, carrying a real debate about the fate of our entire GWs population as a whole, still sounds more like, "the fate of high end pvp only players"... as usual...
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
here's a shocker...
not everyone, especially the casual players... get this... own all the games. |
SY -> Factions.
Both of them won't be available.
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| anet doesnt even factor those people in at all. not to mention, SY! revolves around a rep title, which is even MORE of a turn off for the non-pvper/casual pve'ers. |
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| you're simply overlooking everything below your level of play, and thats beyond unfair for the general community. not everyone plays Headbutt, FF, Plague sig combos, not everyone has Savior of the Luxons, not everyone is you. |
And SY is good even at Rank 1.
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| try to be a little more reasonable, because at the moment, carrying a real debate about the fate of our entire GWs population as a whole, still sounds more like, "the fate of high end pvp only players"... as usual... |
And yeah, I don't only PvP, nor do I have as much time on my hands to be in the least serious about it.
stale
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Originally Posted by keli
The balance of pve doesn't mean that you have to play a full "HA" match against every group of pve monsters, nor you should be able to steamroll them.
Now, we have only steamroll pve teams, and that is a problem. (80% of the teams are ursan users) |
i will admit, there's areas of the game that are overrun with UB teams, but those are also the areas where anyone who's competent will be using a guild group. UB is simply there for the casual player, and the complete incompetents. however, one has to remember that most of the sales Anet has had are to casual players or kids.
in terms of game population, PvP is by far the smaller. after 3 years, they decided to stop abusing their larger playerbase. for me, this is fine. it is not how i'd do it, but hey. (i'd personally have two seperate sets of skills, so that the PvE crowd could use skillbars that work for longer than a week, and the PvP folks can diddle with new skills every thursday till their fingers fall off.)
Tyla
I for one fail to see how Ursan was for the casual players.
I mean, to be able to PuG with it, you need rank 10...
I mean, to be able to PuG with it, you need rank 10...
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by Tyla
BHA -> Factions.
SY -> Factions. Both of them won't be available. 50k K/L Faction doesn't take long to acquire. If these players aren't "hardcore", or whatever level of play you think I am, then they wouldn't be playing Hard Mode. And SY is good even at Rank 1. The fate of all the high end PvP-only players? Where did PvE-only skills fall into the PvP category? And yeah, I don't only PvP, nor do I have as much time on my hands to be in the least serious about it. |
also, i know tons of casual players who play HM, they just still aren't as involved or play as often as the more advanced players is all. another unfair accusation.
also.. you can ursan with rank 6 with almost no problem at all. thats one run through EotN+book for that title.. idk what game you play were you have to have r10 for it to even be effective...
Crom The Pale
So let me get this straight...
Were mad at Anet for trying to fix a problem they created in the first place?
Here is the basic problem that Anet has been repeating since GW was first released.
Anet introduces a single item that is hard to aquire and sought after by everyone. A tiny number of people find a means of getting this item faster than everyone else/or are the only ones capable of getting it at all. Anet introduces a Nerf/Buff to stop the minority or open the area up to the majority. QQ/Flames/RageQuit/You killed my game/ect... soon follow.
From the first Crystaline Sword drop, first point of Fame earned, first FoW armor equiped right up through Ambraces/Kind Of A Big Deal titles/Emotes/Obsidian Edges/$100 000 Tournaments/ect...this has been the repeated pattern and it seams it shall never stop!
Were mad at Anet for trying to fix a problem they created in the first place?
Here is the basic problem that Anet has been repeating since GW was first released.
Anet introduces a single item that is hard to aquire and sought after by everyone. A tiny number of people find a means of getting this item faster than everyone else/or are the only ones capable of getting it at all. Anet introduces a Nerf/Buff to stop the minority or open the area up to the majority. QQ/Flames/RageQuit/You killed my game/ect... soon follow.
From the first Crystaline Sword drop, first point of Fame earned, first FoW armor equiped right up through Ambraces/Kind Of A Big Deal titles/Emotes/Obsidian Edges/$100 000 Tournaments/ect...this has been the repeated pattern and it seams it shall never stop!
Willow O Whisper
Are we to have 2 versions of every spell now? i don't know what to say.....
Celestial_Kitsune
The developers have not yet determined how future balance implementation will work.
Source
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The way it was explained to me is that the changes are going to be reverted, as stated -- to reduce the impact on PvE play. After the changes have been reverted, the effects of the changes will be evaluated. As for the statement regarding possible future tournament changes "that will not impact PvE play at all," I'm unable to provide more details because of the contingent nature of the possible plans. Basically, there are some ideas floating around about this, but they aren't sure whether the implementation will work, and/or whether we have the resources to do so. Because the plans are not definite one way or the other, and because the plans depend on a lot of internal factors, it's not something we can go into great detail about at this time. If we did go into detail and then the plans changed, there would probably be a lot more anger and speculation than if such details were not released.
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Skyy High
...sounds like they're splitting the skills to me. Only thing that could take that much internal work that they're apprehensive about doing it. Boooo.
Magikarp
sounds to me like they're going to ruin gws more...
(if splittings the case)
(if splittings the case)
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
sounds to me like they're going to ruin gws more...
(if splittings the case) |
Celestial_Kitsune
By splitting you mean that some skills will be PvE and some will be PvP or that each skill will have two different functions: one for PvE and one for PvP?
mrmango
PVE players will have to find something new to whine at for losing at something not that hard, and PVP players can role their eyes more.
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by mrmango
PVE players will have to find something new to whine at for losing at something not that hard, and PVP players can role their eyes more.
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stop being so childish and biased. if you play pvp only, thats good and great for you, but tbh, its the pvp community's skill abuse and complaining of said skill abuse that gets us these huge sweeping nerfs.
whats bad about splitting pve and pvp's skills? simple..
not everyone.. and my that i mean most... most people play BOTH pve and pvp... *cough* myself and all of my alliance... everyone i've ever pretty much known ect... splitting the two would be like... let me make this more concise..
theres two McDonalds in your town. you like that because you can have one closer to your home, while the others at your job, school, ect..
you love Big Macs... which you can get at both McDonalds... of course, right?
now imagine two menus at McDonalds.
McD's gets a new group of prices every X term, to reflect inflation, due to people making more money. imagine money meaning skill use/builds.
if each of the two menus were reflecting different economies/communities... the two menus would be different. sort of like pve and pvp.
one McDonalds gets rid of the Big Mac. now you have to remember that, plus, its an inconvenience when you're used to being able to get it from either. now you have to drive across town to get it.
this could (easily) happen to all of the menu items/prices. imagine that in pvp/pve splitting. you'd have to remember 2 of every skill, what now works where, how, and how well in both realms, and of course the risk of not being able to use some skills at all due to the level of nerfing. like say they revert WY! in pve, but its the same in pvp...
thats basically the reality of splitting the game for those that do both. it'd be like making us learn how to play two separate games... IF we even feel like doing that after the split.
Sleeper Service
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
(...)
whats bad about splitting pve and pvp's skills? simple.. not everyone.. and my that i mean most... most people play BOTH pve and pvp... *cough* myself and all of my alliance... everyone i've ever pretty much known ect... splitting the two would be like... let me make this more concise.. theres two McDonalds in your town. you like that because you can have one closer to your home, while the others at your job, school, ect.. (...) |
http://www.trifter.com/Practical-Tra...he-World.35517
you KNOW you are going into mcdonalds. The system is the same, the base the same, just read the damn menu. takes what...? 20 seconds?
sheesh.
Celestial_Kitsune
Would it really be that difficult? I think having a separate function for PvP and PvE for each skill is fine. The skills will have similar functionality in PvP and PvE and will be easy to remember. Having two descriptions will add more freedom to balance. PvPers will not hear any more QQing of PvEers and the system will open new possibilities to make PvE more balanced. Ursan will be nerfed and skills of less desired professions in PvE will be buffed. If this will be done correctly, we might see a more balanced PvP and PvE.
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
If people are getting confused about just which Mcdonalds they are entering then perhaps the issue is with them.
http://www.trifter.com/Practical-Tra...he-World.35517 you KNOW you are going into mcdonalds. The system is the same, the base the same, just read the damn menu. takes what...? 20 seconds? sheesh. |
Parson Brown
I must be the only one who doesn't see much of a problem here.
---A-Net says they will be taking PvE considerations into account when balancing skills GREAT!
The presence of an over-powered PvE skill does not mean that none of the other skills matter. I'm almost to Legendary Vanquisher and UB hasn't even touched my skillbar since I got it. I find it boring, so I don't use it. The existence of UB hasn't changed my game experience much at all. I have guildies who live by it, and if they find that fun, good for them. We even (gasp) play together sometimes. Them with UB and me with whatever build I feel like running.
Let people have fun for cryin' out loud. I wouldn't care if there was an actual "I Win" button in the game. No one is making me press it.
---A-Net says they will be taking PvE considerations into account when balancing skills GREAT!
The presence of an over-powered PvE skill does not mean that none of the other skills matter. I'm almost to Legendary Vanquisher and UB hasn't even touched my skillbar since I got it. I find it boring, so I don't use it. The existence of UB hasn't changed my game experience much at all. I have guildies who live by it, and if they find that fun, good for them. We even (gasp) play together sometimes. Them with UB and me with whatever build I feel like running.
Let people have fun for cryin' out loud. I wouldn't care if there was an actual "I Win" button in the game. No one is making me press it.
Gwmaster
since im mostly pve im quite glad about these changes..or future changes..and for the people complaining about ursan..make a QQ thread to Anet, and tell them to make a Pve skill called: "boom headshot": throw a projectile to target ursan player hitting him for 150dmg , there is a 50% chance of hitting the head, if you hit the head, player dies instantaneously, if the player dies because of boom head shot" party members become angered and deal 20% more damage and cause deep wound. you can use this skill 7 times in a row before the recharge time starts ( this is a monster skill) energy cost: 10 recharge:30 sec cast: instant. and there is your balance.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
In which way would the segregation of the skills ruin the game?
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This entire change would do nothing more than make PvE balance worse in the end - the general skills are typically fair in PvE, and any skill that has to have limitations placed upon it is going to end up far more ridiculous. So if you have to have an entire skillset purely for PvE, you can bet it's going to be a giant one-dimensional gimmick.
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
In which way would the segregation of the skills ruin the game?
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For those who play both pve and pvp, they then have to memorize the different version of a skill its pve version and its pvp version.
pvp gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up because now theres an even higher learning curve, you go into pvp and every skill you know could make no sense to you anymore.
so pvp then just completely dies from lack of new blood.
Sab
Splitting is just a shortsighted approach that reduces QQ without actually fixing anything.
LifesRestorer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
here's a shocker...
not everyone, especially the casual players... get this... own all the games. anet doesnt even factor those people in at all. not to mention, SY! revolves around a rep title, which is even MORE of a turn off for the non-pvper/casual pve'ers |
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Originally Posted by Magikarp
you just said it yourself? so, in example, you said WY! is junk, which it is... if someone doesnt own factions, theres goes the already better solution of WY! (sy!), not to mention, just because YOU think 50K rep isnt a big deal, someone else does. a lot of people do.
also, i know tons of casual players who play HM, they just still aren't as involved or play as often as the more advanced players is all. another unfair accusation. also.. you can ursan with rank 6 with almost no problem at all. thats one run through EotN+book for that title.. idk what game you play were you have to have r10 for it to even be effective... |
Carinae
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Originally Posted by Sab
Splitting is just a shortsighted approach that reduces QQ without actually fixing anything.
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Magikarp
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Originally Posted by LifesRestorer
Why on earth would you try and cater more towards people who have bought only one of the 3 games that your company releases? beggars can't be choosers. If you want a skill from a campaign that you don't own, then either go and buy the campaign or deal without it. It's absolutely rediculous that you think it's fair that people have the right to QQ about such a thing.
just like you countered an argument and then used the exact same argument to try and make your flawed point... Just because you think a run though EotN is no problem at all, doesn't mean others feel the same way... O C WUT I DID THAR?????? |
he mentioned the effectiveness of a said skill based on reputation. if you could get to r10, you've passed r6, meaning r6 is much more feasible if you're taking that route. i didnt condone Ursan, i didnt enforce, or even reverberate an opinion on it. it was a reflection of another users quote. please stick to countering my post with actual subject matter based on my opinions/views, not my counter response to someone elses post....
also.. how can you possibly say that someone who only has 1,2, or 3 of the campaigns isnt as important????
they payed JUST AS MUCH for the games as we did, and that shouldnt mean that well over 90% of the skills for that campaign are junk thanks to rolling nerfs.
thats like saying because someone bought one car from Ford, as opposed to Rick who has had 4 Fords shouldn't get a transmission and axle to their vehicle...
Crom The Pale
PvE and PvP ARE two seperate games, the fact that they share the same skills has been a problem since day one.
For those that play both, yes you would have to have a PvP template and a PvE template for each of your builds. But since builds that work in one should NOT work in the other it really shouldn't be a problem.
Why do so many PvP players think that a skill bar that works on a lvl 20 player fighitng another lvl 20 player should work exactly the same when fighting a lvl 30 monster? Or when your party is outnumbered 20 to 8?
What we need is 2 games where you can transfer your CHARACTER between the games, but not builds.
For those that play both, yes you would have to have a PvP template and a PvE template for each of your builds. But since builds that work in one should NOT work in the other it really shouldn't be a problem.
Why do so many PvP players think that a skill bar that works on a lvl 20 player fighitng another lvl 20 player should work exactly the same when fighting a lvl 30 monster? Or when your party is outnumbered 20 to 8?
What we need is 2 games where you can transfer your CHARACTER between the games, but not builds.
Magikarp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
PvE and PvP ARE two seperate games, the fact that they share the same skills has been a problem since day one.
For those that play both, yes you would have to have a PvP template and a PvE template for each of your builds. But since builds that work in one should NOT work in the other it really shouldn't be a problem. Why do so many PvP players think that a skill bar that works on a lvl 20 player fighitng another lvl 20 player should work exactly the same when fighting a lvl 30 monster? Or when your party is outnumbered 20 to 8? What we need is 2 games where you can transfer your CHARACTER between the games, but not builds. |
Yichi
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
for the pve players who want variety and change, they will not get that anymore.
For those who play both pve and pvp, they then have to memorize the different version of a skill its pve version and its pvp version. pvp gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up because now theres an even higher learning curve, you go into pvp and every skill you know could make no sense to you anymore. so pvp then just completely dies from lack of new blood. |
Magikarp
its pretty much already happening Yichi. just look around, or go into lower newbie areas and talk to some of them..
i do.. and its beyond unattractive to them as to what is waiting for them endgame... imagine how much worse that future could be..
i do.. and its beyond unattractive to them as to what is waiting for them endgame... imagine how much worse that future could be..