Is it okay to buy expensive items for cheap from noobs? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

wilderness

tinyurl.com/6hqar7a

Join Date: Mar 2006

We Couldn't Figure Out A Name [LMAO]

W/N

24 Apr 2008 at 12:54 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funk ee Monk ee

QFT! I see these idiots on reality shows (Survivor, Big Brother, etc) constantly giving the excuse 'it's just a game, I'm not like that in real life.' Absolute BS there. Character is character and lack thereof is lack thereof regardless of where it is displayed.

Sure, but whereas in these games the players are in the public eye and actual real and substantial harm can become from their immoral actions, in Gws the anonymity and absolute dead-end lack of any kind of actual harm to a person renders it such a pointless debate.

If a person expresses after such a trade that they have in fact been deeply upset by their unknowing sell, then you would clearly be a real goon by not setting it right. In that situation, I would not even think twice.

Any offer that's accepted is just a trade, it's just a game and no matter how cheap you think that 'excuse' to be, it stands by itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

That's the whole point - you're acting like a prick just because you can. And just because you can does not mean you should and it certainly does not make it okay.

Another one. Your morals don't stretch as far as causing personal insult to someone for the sake of putting your point across? You're clearly a really good person.

cataphract

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ashford Abbey

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Mo/Me

24 Apr 2008 at 12:55 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

The "it's just a game" excuse is the worst that I've seen so far. Just tell me, if one cannot be trusted to do the decent thing in a game where any ill-gotten gains are completely intangible, how is one supposed to be trusted in real life where underhanded acts may provide actual advantages? And if the loss suffered by the uninformed seller is negligible, then so is the gain of the morally challenged whose only real gain is thus the satisfaction of doing the wrong thing.

I totally agree with this.

stretchs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK

24 Apr 2008 at 12:56 - 123

Alot depends on my mood that day, some days, I just feel like making a tidy profit be damned what happens, other days I am in a good mood and I will help someone understand the actual value of the item they are trying to sell.

Commander Ryker

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jun 2005

R/

24 Apr 2008 at 12:57 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

I disagree. A proper developed sense knows when it matters and when it does not. Video games are all about indulgence, after all. (see below)

Video games are about fun. Anyone who thinks, that hurting someone elses fun for your own personal gain, is ok, is an arse. No discussion needed and please stop the excuses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

...
Video games are here for our indulgence, nothing more. You can afford to allow yourself the indulgence of being greedy in a video game, of being violent of lying of cheating and stealing... none of it is real and has no (except perhaps for some truly extreme conditions) actual negative effect on anyones lives.

Are you that ignorant?? That stupid???

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

A persons actions in game are in no way a direct translation of their real world self. Adhering to a strict moral code in game and not taking items for less than they could potentially be sold does not make you a better person than those that do, not in the slightest.

Yes, there is the answer, you are. Not taking advantage of people no matter where, makes me a better person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

One thing I learned from online games with economies is the most valuable tool to a new player is having access to an accurate price list. If you don't take the effort to get one (either through asking people or observing trade) then your penalty is potentially getting unfavorable deals.

Any reason why people that know the real price shouldn´t just tell it?? Does it hurt to be nice to people??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The people who benefit from this are doing nothing wrong, unless they're actively giving misinformation to trick the player out of their item/gold.

They are withholding informations for their own personal gain. If you can help someone, is there any reason to not do it?

QFT Totally agree.

phan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

phantasmagoria

24 Apr 2008 at 12:58 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

depends on the lvl of noobishness

if were talking lvl 16 sin who just started playing got some q 815^50 daggs and wants to sell em for 5k then i would say no

anything else besides a complete noob its cool though

If he uses Q instead of R or Req i'll rip him off like hell =)

cataphract

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ashford Abbey

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Mo/Me

24 Apr 2008 at 13:06 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

Another one. Your morals don't stretch as far as causing personal insult to someone for the sake of putting your point across? You're clearly a really good person.

Ah, so you *do* have feelings and you *can* distinguish right from wrong? There is hope.

wilderness

tinyurl.com/6hqar7a

Join Date: Mar 2006

We Couldn't Figure Out A Name [LMAO]

W/N

24 Apr 2008 at 13:15 - 127

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Ah, so you *do* have feelings and you *can* distinguish right from wrong? There is hope.

I'm not debating right from wrong, I know I'm taking advantage when I exploit the market, but I don't see any actual harm as it is just a game. That's my opinion, perhaps I'm wrong but I don't feel so.

In real life I would never do anything like that, ever. In fact, if I were aware of something like it I would make it my sole aim to stamp it out entirely.

Just so you know, I was 'scammed' in two ways when I first started the game. I bought a shield the seller told me was worth 80k only to find it was merch food and I sold a sword that was worth 30e more than I got for it. I didn't mind, it was all part of the curve and I was only playing a game after all.

-

Also: It's quite funny how you stepped about the personal insult thing, quite a clever response to misdirect. I wasn't aware being a hypocrite tied so well with a moralist... I guess if you can sleep well at night after making such nasty attacks it's all ok, huh?

Da Tru Legend

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Light of Honor [Lite]

A/

24 Apr 2008 at 13:18 - 128

Having moral issues about how you (and I >_>) make money in GW?

Personally, I think it's completely fine, unless it's a good friend of yours or something. Caveat emptor!

~Tru

cataphract

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ashford Abbey

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Mo/Me

24 Apr 2008 at 13:31 - 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

Also: It's quite funny how you stepped about the personal insult thing, quite a clever response to misdirect. I wasn't aware being a hypocrite tied so well with a moralist... I guess if you can sleep well at night after making such nasty attacks it's all ok, huh?

Okay, for the second, and hopefully the last, time: the "prick" post was not a personal insult, but a jab intended to snap you out of your smug "it's just a game" rhetoric. Obviously I failed miserably. So, if you don't mind, I'll be taking my Fail with me and move on to greener pastures where they don't twist my words to better suit their needs.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

24 Apr 2008 at 13:34 - 130

this thread is becoming a cess pool of little stabs and insults at each other. Cool your jets people....really.

bamm bamm bamm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

24 Apr 2008 at 13:36 - 131

At the end of the day, this situation arises because the information isn't available in-game. If players could make a simple auction house query and find out internally, it wouldn't be a problem! (do you see what I did there?)

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

24 Apr 2008 at 13:37 - 132

Quote:

Once again, why are you getting so heavy about it? It's just a game.

Yea, that's more or less what my post boils down to... plus you quote my commentary on another person's signature rather than what I actually replied to the OP with...

... your response to me. Sense it makes not

If your asking why I'm analyzing it philosophically... it's called a "thought experiment". Just because there's no practical application in this particular context doesn't mean the question itself can't be examined to find some sort of greater consensus or understanding on the matter.

Quote:

Another one. Your morals don't stretch as far as causing personal insult to someone for the sake of putting your point across? You're clearly a really good person.

What insult? Taking advantage of other people is almost universally viewed as "wrong". I don't think pointing that out - even if it was in a somewhat vulgar manner - is insulting. If someone IS a prick they don't get to complain when someone points it out, even if the person doing so doesn't use the most mature methods available to do it.

wilderness

tinyurl.com/6hqar7a

Join Date: Mar 2006

We Couldn't Figure Out A Name [LMAO]

W/N

24 Apr 2008 at 13:40 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Okay, for the second, and hopefully the last, time: the "prick" post was not a personal insult, but a jab intended to snap you out of your smug "it's just a game" rhetoric. Obviously I failed miserably. So, if you don't mind, I'll be taking my Fail with me and move on to greener pastures where they don't twist my words to better suit their needs.

There's no real way to twist or misinterpret a personal attack, but feel free to twist it yourself to suit your own needs. Seems like only a few posts ago you were lecturing me for the same... ah, those were the times.

Seems some people are not so elevated as they'd thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

If someone IS a prick they don't get to complain when someone points it out, even if the person doing so doesn't use the most mature methods available to do it.

A part of morality being: Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.

Simply

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

24 Apr 2008 at 13:44 - 134

The answer is a resounding NO if it is an item that can be sold to a trader or a merchant for more than you're paying. Normally, I PM the person (or yell it in all chat) and let them know how they can get more money from the AI. This includes materials, dyes, runes, and collector trophies (e.g. Commendations).

For other items, it depends on how egregious the difference is. In other words, I wouldn't have much of a problem buying an armbrace from someone for 100K (especially if I'm gonna use it and not resell it), but if they were selling it for 50K, I'd definitely pass.

cataphract

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ashford Abbey

Hey Mallyx [icU]

Mo/Me

24 Apr 2008 at 13:44 - 135

Come on, don't give me that "HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!" rhetoric, when you yourself stated that you were (probably still are and will continue) oppressing those less fortunate/informed/<insert.handicap.here>.

As far this this argument goes - I'm out. It is not my idea of fun to get dragged down to a certain level and subsequently get beaten by "opponents" experience in that particular level.

wilderness

tinyurl.com/6hqar7a

Join Date: Mar 2006

We Couldn't Figure Out A Name [LMAO]

W/N

24 Apr 2008 at 13:49 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Come on, don't give me that "HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!" rhetoric, when you yourself stated that you were (probably still are and will continue) oppressing those less fortunate/informed/<insert.handicap.here>.

I don't actually care, I'm merely pointing out hypocrisy and tenuous morality.

Feel free to insult me all you want and I'll try my best to stay off this damned thread.

Cess, indeed

Dark Kal

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

24 Apr 2008 at 13:50 - 137

If it's not against the EULA it's "OK". Other than the moral question which is personal. I wouldn't because of my personal morality and it's just a game.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

24 Apr 2008 at 13:54 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It's common sense to at least attempt to find out how much something is worth before selling it, really. It doesn't take someone who's been playing Guild Wars for 2 years to ask a question. Not to mention you can now press F10 to find fan sites and wiki.

And you're right, they are only items in a game. Who cares what they're sold for? The money they are bought with is only money in a game for Christ's sake.

The question is about noobs ( who I consider to be people new to the game, not people here 2 years). As such to take advantage of someone having a black dye in pre drop for them is wrong. You wouldnt like it being done to you now would you? (and if it happened to you when you started the game doesnt make it right either).

Yes, its only a game, but you should interact with the people in the game the same way as you would outside the game. If it means that so many of the people here would rip people off in R/L then its just sad.

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

24 Apr 2008 at 13:55 - 139

Quote:

Sorry, that is bullshit, because it would mean that every single contract is legal and valid, because both agreed to it, no matter what.

I think the question was if it was 'morally all right'. A contract may not be legal for different reasons. One of the people who signed it might not have been the age needed to sign it for example. It would not be legal, but if he or she was 15 and fully aware of the consequences of signing that contract there is nothing morally wrong with it according to me. (Note that I'm not sure when signing a contract would be legal but I took 16 to be a nice age for this example

)

Other way around too, some things may legally be wrong but morally be correct. In the Netherlands there is a law where, when a building hasn't been used in a year, other people can move in there and live there. Though I'm not sure about the details, the actual owner of that building can't easily force those others to move out of his building again. Legally the 'other people' are correct in that they are allowed to live there, morally however I disagree.

The question of the OP however was if it is 'ok' to buy something of a noob (whichever meaning of the word he meant there). Now, as no one has pointed out some rule made by Anet about this, I can assume it's about the moral. In which case I still say: yes it is all right to buy an expensive item for a cheap price if the seller agrees to it. Sure, it may be nice of the buyer to inform the seller but it's not morally wrong if he doesn't in my opinion.
Same partially applies to reallife for me too. Lets compare it with a house, if someone is selling for €200.000,- while it's worth €220.000,- I'll gladly buy the house (sadly I lack funds though :P). There are enough estate agents who will tell the price to the seller, as a buyer it's not my job to inform him is it? Even someone totally new (which I'll be in a few years hopefully) to the real estate market has people around him who will tell him about this if he doesn't know it himself (friends, family), just as someone has guildmates/friends to point him to Guru/wiki/another website for a decent pricecheck.

Anyway, it's an interesting topic I'll defianetely follow it.

hippo942

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

England

Yes I do have a guild, Thanks for asking

N/

24 Apr 2008 at 13:56 - 140

I usually tell then if they seem like a nice person and are noob as some people pmed me teling me I was selling too cheap. Although if they are being really immature they can loose money and i not too bothered about them

razor39999

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Jumping Da Sky [JDS]

24 Apr 2008 at 14:01 - 141

People cheat more often than play fair, it's a common fact of life and any games. It makes sense economically and evolutionary. The only real thing to discuss here is the degree of the cheat.
So like someone on page 1 said - Depends on how big the difference is. That's the only real important issue IMO, whether it's making 10-20% off of a high end sale or making 200+% off a black dye from a presearing newcomer. Those are different degrees of a cheat and shouldn't be confused with each other just because they both are "thefts" so to speak.

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

24 Apr 2008 at 14:05 - 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor39999

People cheat more often than play fair, it's a common fact of life and any games. It makes sense economically and evolutionary. The only real thing to discuss here is the degree of the cheat.
So like someone on page 1 said - Depends on how big the difference is. That's the only real important issue IMO, whether it's making 10-20% off of a high end sale or making 200+% off a black dye from a presearing newcomer. Those are different degrees of a cheat and shouldn't be confused with each other just because they both are "thefts" so to speak.

I'm sorry, but morally there is no difference. If I steal €1,- in reallife, it morally is just as wrong as stealing €100,- from the same person.

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

24 Apr 2008 at 14:08 - 143

To be fair, if your going to be dealing with things worth more than 10k when your a nobb that would be suprising, and in the grand scale of things 10k isnt alot.

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

24 Apr 2008 at 14:10 - 144

Quote:

A part of morality being: Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.

Blah blah blah, all I'm hearing here are "facts" and "evidence" and "dictionary definitions".

Well, here's one for you Aristotle: "morality" has to do with one's "morals" which come from the "heart" and their "feelings". And I "feel" in my "heart" what I said while you just used your "brain" for what you said. Which of us is more moral now, egghead?

(the entire preceding post should be read firmly tongue in cheek

)
(also with the appropriate nod to Colbert for the inspiration)

Quote:

To be fair, if your going to be dealing with things worth more than 10k when your a nobb that would be suprising,

Superior Vigor

Which I currently have four of in storage that I can't bring to waste on the few heroes left that don't have 'em...

razor39999

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Jumping Da Sky [JDS]

24 Apr 2008 at 14:12 - 145

And that's why ethics isn't a science and evolutionary biology (a theory of trade-offs basically) is. Looking at things in categories and not as overlapping continuums is VERY narrow. But that's beside the point of this discussion anyways. Sorry for off-topicking.

Sub Frost

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Portugal

R/

24 Apr 2008 at 14:14 - 146

That's between you and your Conscience.

the savage nornbear

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Raging Cadavers [rage]

R/

24 Apr 2008 at 14:51 - 147

Its OK if you want to go to guild wars hell, or have bad guild wars karma, or whatever. Everyone is a newb at some point and its not fair to "steal" from them. I didn't know about Guru or Wiki and I was in a guild with real life friends that knew less than I did. Unless they're being really jerky, then steal away.

FrAnt1c??

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

Belgium

Legion Of Sacred Light [LSL]

Mo/

24 Apr 2008 at 15:02 - 148

I once bought a 20/20 req 9 fire zodiac staff for 10k from an asshole in my previous guild, serves him right...

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

24 Apr 2008 at 15:08 - 149

If you know that you're saving a considerable difference of money, then yes I think it's not a totally nice thing to do.

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

24 Apr 2008 at 15:09 - 150

just don't buy 40 ambraces for 10k (bells should be going off)

BlueNovember

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

WTS GW2 items for Zkey

Mo/

24 Apr 2008 at 15:12 - 151

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

I'm sorry, but morally there is no difference. If I steal €1,- in reallife, it morally is just as wrong as stealing €100,- from the same person.

Wait, what?
How far does that logic of yours extend? How about €1 and €1,000,000?
--

On topic,
No of course it's fair. Welcome to the real world. :\
That said, if someone was selling an item worth for 100k for 1k, I'd be ever-so-generous and pay 10k. If he still sells, he's happy, I'm happy. If he gets suspicious and finds the correct price from someone else, then good for him.

On a similarly cynical note, fair-trade chocolate tastes horrible.

ProgTes

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Under that rock.

We Demand A Shrubbery [Ni]

W/E

24 Apr 2008 at 15:16 - 152

BlueNovember I totally disagree with you. Fair-trade pure chocolate is the best pure chocolate there is, and I don't even like pure chocolate.

On topic: of course it's perfectly fair. That's how I make my money.

kobey

GW Retiree

Join Date: Nov 2005

Sg Unknown [KATE]

W/

24 Apr 2008 at 15:18 - 153

1: Its not good to spoon feed people with prices all the time.
2: Being nice to people does not pay 90% of the time. I have been there, done that. Don't tell me otherwise. (Though I still try to be nice to people unless they turn nasty)
3: If someone wish to sell something way away from the market standard, be it high or low, its up to you to want to buy it from him. He has given his price, its up to you now. As someone else has mentioned here before, the same person selling a crys sword for 10k could be the same person selling a dead sword for 100k + xx ectos. And if you are so kind to point out (NICELY) that his sword does not worth so much, you MIGHT be called names, and labelled a scammer.

In a GVG match, if your opposing team is using very bad builds and clearly do not know of websites that could teach them more about builds, do you stop and try to educate them or do you own the hell out of them?

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

24 Apr 2008 at 15:21 - 154

I laughed when I read some of these replies. Some of you have a big shock ahead of you. The real world will kick you while your down, and will continue kicking until you fight back.

Nazar Razak

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

24 Apr 2008 at 15:23 - 155

Depends entirely on the person for me. If its a newb, who got very lucky and found a rare item, and that Newb happens to be literate, and a nice person, i'd tell him/her the proper price, and go about my day. If it was one of those "lulul, i gut th1s gaem nd im 1337, beta dan u, i WTSSS dis fur 2k" then i will snap up the offer, and silently laugh at them. Both situations have happened far too many times for me.
To sum up "WTS requirement 9 zodiac sword for 5k" "Do you know the proper price of that item?" "no, but i found it and id like to make some money, i started this game not long ago" "ah, well its worth XXXk, dont sell it for less!".

"Sell UBER ULTRA sord. GODLY PERFECT. only 1kkkk!" "Ill buy for 2"

kobey

GW Retiree

Join Date: Nov 2005

Sg Unknown [KATE]

W/

24 Apr 2008 at 15:23 - 156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

I laughed when I read some of these replies. Some of you have a big shock ahead of you. The real world will kick you while your down, and will continue kicking until you fight back.

allow me to add:

and the harder you fight back, the harder you get kicked

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

24 Apr 2008 at 15:27 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobey

allow me to add:

and the harder you fight back, the harder you get kicked

I've experienced that, it hurts when it's against some huge guy twice as big as you older than you kicking you in the teeth multiple times.
*COUGH*Mallyx*COUGH*

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

24 Apr 2008 at 15:29 - 158

Quote:

Wait, what?
How far does that logic of yours extend? How about €1 and €1,000,000?

Still the same, say you stole €1,000,000 from Bill Gates (took a random rich guy I thought everyone'd know here) you're unable to sleep, but if you stole€1,- from him you would be able to sleep?
Sure, it may be easier to reason with yourself (and anyone else) that stealing that €1,- wasn't as bad as stealing €1,000,000 (he won't notice it as much) but morally it makes no difference does it? You still know* that that €1,- isn't yours.

*In this case, knowing is not meant as 'knowing a fact' but 'feeling really strong about something' if you know what I mean

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

24 Apr 2008 at 15:31 - 159

True. Money solves many things. In life, and in GW.

I made lots, most of it was from buying low, and then selling high.

Everyone is fair game. I used my knowledge to my advantage.

Taste your distaste all you want. I care not what people think of how I play, and what I do.

The Way Out

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

In my peanut brain

Zomg Zombies [OMG]

Mo/E

24 Apr 2008 at 15:38 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

True. Money solves many things. In life, and in GW.

I made lots, most of it was from buying low, and then selling high.

Everyone is fair game. I used my knowledge to my advantage.

Taste your distaste all you want. I care not what people think of how I play, and what I do.

lol... Thought I would stop in and said what's up. I stopped playing GW, altogether. I logged in the other day and people where complaining about how poor they were. I still have a substantial amount of funds on my characters. I seriously don't understand how people go without ig... it really baffles me. Anyhow, glad to see you are still going strong, Malice!