There was a thread about the most disappointing thing in Guild Wars. Well, one user said the game was originally meant to not have to grind. When your first bought the game back when it was Porphecies only and there was no ursan, lightbringer, sunspear, kurzick or luxon, hard mode, and whatever else they made... was the game just fun to you or did you still have to grind titles and such?
I really liked Guild Wars how it was in the early days. I liked it without titles and especially the ones that give you bonuses. I liked it back when it was only 1 game there was no running to instances, you simply just teleported. One of my favorite things about just Prophecies was only 6 professions! Even though it's nice to have 10 that many isn't needed.
The other campaigns aren't bad, but it seems like ArenaNet changes or adds something every time they release a new camapaign. I don't think any campaign has the same type of bonuses except Prophecies and Nightfall. I like how EoTN has just the dungeon though and that's it.
To get to the point and not keeping going on about nothing... Was it better back then or now and is it just too much grinding unlike it was in the beginning?
Guild Wars or Grind Wars?
Thizzle
Randvek
It's better now. Sure, there's a (mostly) optional grind element to it, but there is so, so much more to do than when just Prophecies was out. Go back to just Prophecies? No thanks, I'd give up GW altogether if all I could do was Proph.
Lawrence Chang
Yep.... all Grind nowadays.
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
[DE]
The whole concept that Anet had at Prophecies release was skill > time . By the time Nightfall was released though it became apparent that it was now time > skill .
Thizzle
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Originally Posted by Randvek
It's better now. Sure, there's a (mostly) optional grind element to it, but there is so, so much more to do than when just Prophecies was out. Go back to just Prophecies? No thanks, I'd give up GW altogether if all I could do was Proph.
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thor hammerbane
Guild wars or QQ?
Use the bloody search function. This has been milked to death. Somebody think of the damn cow!
Use the bloody search function. This has been milked to death. Somebody think of the damn cow!
Winterclaw
I think that there have been some nice additions to GW, but some of the titles, particularly the PVE Skill ones were a really bad idea overall.
FoxBat
Jeff Strain honestly expected people to transition to PvP after doing everything in prophecies/factions. Oops.
warcrap
guild wars was better when it first came out.
Thizzle
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Originally Posted by thor hammerbane
Guild wars or QQ?
Use the bloody search function. This has been milked to death. Somebody think of the damn cow! |
Made you a signature, I hope you like it.
Sir Seifus Halbred
Hmmm, not too sure if i liked Guild Wars how it used to be. I got Guild Wars in summer of 06' i believe? I was a totally noob for a loong time when it came to farming, etc. I still play it but yet i don't think i mind the changes it has went through since then, except titles. I wish that titles were never implented into the game.
El Presidente
Prophecies, for me, was more about playing the game rather than the grind it is now...though if all chapters/expansions were like Prophecies, it'd still get stagnant at some point.
Thizzle
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Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred
Hmmm, not too sure if i liked Guild Wars how it used to be. I got Guild Wars in summer of 06' i believe and i was a totally noob in it for a loong time when it came to farming, etc. I still play it and i don't think i mind the changes it has went through since then, except titles. I wish that titles were never implented into the game.
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Toxage
Arena Net went against their design ages ago, when titles were given benefits.
GW2 won't change either. GW2 has numerous rep grinds as well. Ah, I've said to much about it <.< >.>
GW2 won't change either. GW2 has numerous rep grinds as well. Ah, I've said to much about it <.< >.>
cellardweller
There is no problem with the title system - GW has always had, and benefitted from option grind for cosmetics. The problem is that they added skills and effects based on these titles, thereby removing the optional compenent from them.
DivineEnvoy
To be honest, it is true for both skill over time and time over skill. It's just there are people who prefer time over skill will like to brag about their achievements to the degree that they believe they are superior human beings. In related to this, there are people who prefer skill over time will be paranoid, and some of them will jump to the conclusion that the game is only time over skill now. Even so, believe it or not, the game can be played with both skill over time and time over skill. I guess some people like to control other people to play the game the way they believe it's the right way.
Another point I would like to make is that the old days back in 2004 were horrifying. There was nearly nothing to do in PvE. It was more or less just getting UAX, then move onto PvP. And PvP was very time-consuming, so many people who sticked to PvE were quitting. In related to this, the lack of contents was not the only problem, the community just hated playing with eachother. Half the pickup groups I joined ended up in conflicts. By the release of Factions, I guess people just realized how much they hated eachother, so a number of people just rushed the game such as beating the game within a week. I guess some people preferred to play the game with people, but when a number of people just rushed the game, mission outposts were deserted. I sometimes suspect this to be the reason to why people hate Factions. By Nightfall, Anet realized this situation, and they released heroes to improve the playtime given by players. By Eye of the North, Anet released PvE-only skills to improve the playability of elite missions and random pickup groups.
Another point I would like to make is that the old days back in 2004 were horrifying. There was nearly nothing to do in PvE. It was more or less just getting UAX, then move onto PvP. And PvP was very time-consuming, so many people who sticked to PvE were quitting. In related to this, the lack of contents was not the only problem, the community just hated playing with eachother. Half the pickup groups I joined ended up in conflicts. By the release of Factions, I guess people just realized how much they hated eachother, so a number of people just rushed the game such as beating the game within a week. I guess some people preferred to play the game with people, but when a number of people just rushed the game, mission outposts were deserted. I sometimes suspect this to be the reason to why people hate Factions. By Nightfall, Anet realized this situation, and they released heroes to improve the playtime given by players. By Eye of the North, Anet released PvE-only skills to improve the playability of elite missions and random pickup groups.
Bront
My only real complaint about grind and titles is which titles are account based vs character based, and a few of the "You must spend X amount of cash" to max (Sweet tooth and Drunkard, Drunkard is even worse). So much of GW is account centric vs character centric, and much of the grind is character centric.
It doesn't help that some titles are just nuts to max (Luxon/Kurzick).
It doesn't help that some titles are just nuts to max (Luxon/Kurzick).
Lawrence Chang
I think part of the reason these grind titles were implemented was because this game was too balanced. Anet basically gave players nothing to work for (Ex. trying to get the "best" weapons, armors, etc.) These titles gives the players something to waste their time on.
Zesbeer
i would have to say that 90% of the title system is grind in some shape or from.
Narcissia
imo, guild wars wouldve died out long ago if they didnt add things like titles. as for grinding...there really isnt much. look at other games, theres much more.
doesnt bother me at all. its something to do that takes longer than 2 hours.
if u dont like grinding, dont. no ones forcing u to use the pve skills
doesnt bother me at all. its something to do that takes longer than 2 hours.
if u dont like grinding, dont. no ones forcing u to use the pve skills
Clone
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
There is no problem with the title system - GW has always had, and benefitted from option grind for cosmetics. The problem is that they added skills and effects based on these titles, thereby removing the optional compenent from them.
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Unfortunately, they've made a lot of the optional content beyond the missions mindless grinding. Alone, I wouldn't see that as too much of an issue. But, this becomes a problem when there are heavy benefits to be reaped from long hours of mindless repetitive play.
Giving a player some cool armor or a nice skin, but no statistical advantage from grinding (for example FoW armor) was good design. Giving players huge statistical advantages (Lightbringer ursans in DoA) isn't. And actually, I did like ursan blessing, which I know is a separate point of contention in the community. I saw it as revitalizing the once dead DoA area. However, all the grinding has been a real move away from what the game once claimed to be.
Albert Algorn
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Originally Posted by Lawrence Chang
Yep.... all Grind nowadays.
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I say this as I can hear the 9-rings "game" in the background as I grind on the lucky title. If it weren't for all the lockpicks I've broken I wouldn't even be grinding out this one but Anet seems to think this is fun...
Well best go stock up on tickets for the night
StormDragonZ
In the end, the best way to know who is a loyal player to a game is to make them keep playing over and over for something specific.
Take a look at Final Fantasy 7 for a good example.
Nonetheless, I know what I want to do on Guild Wars, and as long as I can without needing to do twenty other things prior to it, I'll continue to play.
Take a look at Final Fantasy 7 for a good example.
Nonetheless, I know what I want to do on Guild Wars, and as long as I can without needing to do twenty other things prior to it, I'll continue to play.
Toxage
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Originally Posted by Narcissia
imo, guild wars wouldve died out long ago if they didnt add things like titles. as for grinding...there really isnt much. look at other games, theres much more.
doesnt bother me at all. its something to do that takes longer than 2 hours. if u dont like grinding, dont. no ones forcing u to use the pve skills |
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WONG WRONG WRONG
Actually, every single HM group is forcing me to use OVERPOWERED PvE skills. Every single HM focused guild wants me to use some cookie-cutter build.
Mickey
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Originally Posted by Toxage
Dr. Cox from Scrubs
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WONG WRONG WRONG Actually, every single HM group is forcing me to use OVERPOWERED PvE skills. Every single HM focused guild wants me to use some cookie-cutter build. |
A build is not a "cookie cutter" build because it works all the time.
HM Guild might force you to use the most effective build, but that's not necessarily cookie cutter. The best build for a certain situation might be a Mind Blast Nuker, so be it, they don't want you to run a Shatterstone Spiker with Earth Wards. Ursan is cookie cutter. It works in every situation, and nothing can stop it.
Thizzle
People have made many great points. I think EoTN is where it best shows my example of why it's a grind fest, but then again if anet didn't implement these reasons to go re-do a dungeon or quest then not many people would do them. I think the game definitely has enough quest and elite missions are the most enjoyable to me because there is no bonus, time, and usually very interesting to play through.
Master Knightfall
One thing to make clear and it seems we have to do this everytime we have a grind QQing thread. There is not one thing that is FORCED GRINDING in GW. You do not need any PVE only skills, nor do you need any titles. All they are are for those that want something more to do than just farming for $$ as farming grind has been in the game since day one, but, funny you don't see them complaining about the farming grinds like they do about the title grinds or the skills grinds. Nevertheless none of them are required for completion of the game or chapters. Thus all the QQing about grind is just because they don't have TIME to grind like the rest of us, and if they can't do it they don't want others to be able to do it either cause they think some of us get unfair advantages with these PVE only skills or titles. None of them are unfair because they aren't required by the game.
Now if you want to cry, cry about your puberescent types that won't take anyone unless they have these skills or titles, it's them that have issues, it's not the skills or titles themselves. It's elitism, it's selfishness, it's gloating, and powercrazed fanatics that make grind titles or grind skills SEEM like they are needed. Then it's the weak of mind the QQers that ALLOW them to do this to them. By being weak minded all they can do is cry and boo hoo and bellyache that Joe Blow has got things I don't have time to get waaaaahhhh waaaaaahhhh boo hooo Cry. lol
Now if you want to cry, cry about your puberescent types that won't take anyone unless they have these skills or titles, it's them that have issues, it's not the skills or titles themselves. It's elitism, it's selfishness, it's gloating, and powercrazed fanatics that make grind titles or grind skills SEEM like they are needed. Then it's the weak of mind the QQers that ALLOW them to do this to them. By being weak minded all they can do is cry and boo hoo and bellyache that Joe Blow has got things I don't have time to get waaaaahhhh waaaaaahhhh boo hooo Cry. lol
Alleji
Yeah, there's some grind in GW, but all of it was purely "cosmetic" until EotN and nothing really went against skill > time philosophy. However, PvE skills changed that. lolursan. Oops.
Optional grind is IMO a good thing - it gives people something to do, if they choose to do it.
Optional grind is IMO a good thing - it gives people something to do, if they choose to do it.
o m g pizowned
To someone like me who started playing 36 months ago*, there is no chance i like it more now than when it was just prophecies.
[DE]
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Originally Posted by o m g pizowned
To someone like me who started playing 36 months, there is no chance i like it more now than when it was just prophecies.
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Zsig
Back when there was no grind in Guild Wars it was fun because you didn't feel compelled to do anything in particular, although, the lack of it made the game a bit boring after you beat it for a couple times.
People were expected to go to PvP after they learned the game in PvE, but hey, what if they don't like competition and want some more stuff to do in PvE?
Anyways, i don't like the title grind, in fact i hate it, but i have to admit that i was about to give up on GW, and i would, if it wasn't for titles. Titles made me keep playing.
EDIT:
QFT.
People were expected to go to PvP after they learned the game in PvE, but hey, what if they don't like competition and want some more stuff to do in PvE?
Anyways, i don't like the title grind, in fact i hate it, but i have to admit that i was about to give up on GW, and i would, if it wasn't for titles. Titles made me keep playing.
EDIT:
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Originally Posted by [DE
]Same here - but I think everything is more fun when you're new and have no idea what you're doing. Ignorance is bliss.
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Lest121
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Originally Posted by Narcissia
imo, guild wars wouldve died out long ago if they didnt add things like titles. as for grinding...there really isnt much. look at other games, theres much more.
doesnt bother me at all. its something to do that takes longer than 2 hours. if u dont like grinding, dont. no ones forcing u to use the pve skills |
o m g pizowned
heh yeah i remember my noob days:P was awesome
Scary Raebbit
Titles seemed like a good idea at first. Till they made titles affect skills/affect getting into parties. Or had those ludicrous grinds. Or had the stupid KoaBD.
Buster
Yeah there is grind,repetitive dungeons runs and filling out those hero/dungeon hand books but I do things in moderation so it isn't that bad at all. As always, some like to rush through everything. GW2 is still a ways to go so we all have plenty of time to finish what we want to.
wyrd
Theres definitely a grind if you want to do everything in the game but its not required everyone has a choice if they want to grind or not but without the grinding options the game would become old with nothing to look forward to for many that play alot and there wouldnt be the longevity that GW has had and continues to have.
Hell Raiser
I feel like it was a lot better before titles, but the population would've decreased much much faster without them. Sadly most guilds nowadays are grind-fests, and PUGs are pretty much non-existent in most missions. And somehow I'm still having fun
bel unbreakable
grind what grind its all fun from where im standing any how the truth is it is we the players who made it what it is to day after all when we finished the pve side we were ment to trot of over to the dark side but i guess the most of us got lost on the way
Hyper.nl
Another grind thread? What about using the search and type in 'grind'...
cosyfiep
grind is why only the characters who want eye armor are going passed eye of the north post.....otherwise I see no real reason for the 'expansion' since its all just grind grind and more grind---and even most of the armors arent worth it so after I get the new skills I doubt that my characters will finish it.
The chapters kept me entertained enough (though nightfall has got me bogged down due to the grind of points and poorly designed quests etc)....
so I agree with the poster who said that they added the titles to make up for the lack of depth....if they had just spent more time and effort in making the game grind would not have been necessary to introduce at all......
The chapters kept me entertained enough (though nightfall has got me bogged down due to the grind of points and poorly designed quests etc)....
so I agree with the poster who said that they added the titles to make up for the lack of depth....if they had just spent more time and effort in making the game grind would not have been necessary to introduce at all......