Guild Wars or Grind Wars?

I agree. I do think they are still "optional," but the old paradigm of time > skill is no longer the case. And in the end, "optional" isn't much of a defense. Buying weapons and armor is "optional". Getting different skills is "optional". Doing nearly every side quest from NPCs in the game is "optional". Almost the only required thing to get from new character to ending credits is the missions.

Unfortunately, they've made a lot of the optional content beyond the missions mindless grinding. Alone, I wouldn't see that as too much of an issue. But, this becomes a problem when there are heavy benefits to be reaped from long hours of mindless repetitive play.

Giving a player some cool armor or a nice skin, but no statistical advantage from grinding (for example FoW armor) was good design. Giving players huge statistical advantages (Lightbringer ursans in DoA) isn't. And actually, I did like ursan blessing, which I know is a separate point of contention in the community. I saw it as revitalizing the once dead DoA area. However, all the grinding has been a real move away from what the game once claimed to be.

I agree the game has come to grinding this and that title. Especially in EOTN /boring

I say this as I can hear the 9-rings "game" in the background as I grind on the lucky title. If it weren't for all the lockpicks I've broken I wouldn't even be grinding out this one but Anet seems to think this is fun...

Well best go stock up on tickets for the night

In the end, the best way to know who is a loyal player to a game is to make them keep playing over and over for something specific.

Take a look at Final Fantasy 7 for a good example.

Nonetheless, I know what I want to do on Guild Wars, and as long as I can without needing to do twenty other things prior to it, I'll continue to play.

Dr. Cox from Scrubs

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WONG WRONG WRONG

Actually, every single HM group is forcing me to use OVERPOWERED PvE skills. Every single HM focused guild wants me to use some cookie-cutter build.

Not flaming you, since we already had enough of that in the other thread, but define "cookie cutter"

A build is not a "cookie cutter" build because it works all the time.
HM Guild might force you to use the most effective build, but that's not necessarily cookie cutter. The best build for a certain situation might be a Mind Blast Nuker, so be it, they don't want you to run a Shatterstone Spiker with Earth Wards. Ursan is cookie cutter. It works in every situation, and nothing can stop it.

People have made many great points. I think EoTN is where it best shows my example of why it's a grind fest, but then again if anet didn't implement these reasons to go re-do a dungeon or quest then not many people would do them. I think the game definitely has enough quest and elite missions are the most enjoyable to me because there is no bonus, time, and usually very interesting to play through.

One thing to make clear and it seems we have to do this everytime we have a grind QQing thread. There is not one thing that is FORCED GRINDING in GW. You do not need any PVE only skills, nor do you need any titles. All they are are for those that want something more to do than just farming for $$ as farming grind has been in the game since day one, but, funny you don't see them complaining about the farming grinds like they do about the title grinds or the skills grinds. Nevertheless none of them are required for completion of the game or chapters. Thus all the QQing about grind is just because they don't have TIME to grind like the rest of us, and if they can't do it they don't want others to be able to do it either cause they think some of us get unfair advantages with these PVE only skills or titles. None of them are unfair because they aren't required by the game.

Now if you want to cry, cry about your puberescent types that won't take anyone unless they have these skills or titles, it's them that have issues, it's not the skills or titles themselves. It's elitism, it's selfishness, it's gloating, and powercrazed fanatics that make grind titles or grind skills SEEM like they are needed. Then it's the weak of mind the QQers that ALLOW them to do this to them. By being weak minded all they can do is cry and boo hoo and bellyache that Joe Blow has got things I don't have time to get waaaaahhhh waaaaaahhhh boo hooo Cry. lol

Yeah, there's some grind in GW, but all of it was purely "cosmetic" until EotN and nothing really went against skill > time philosophy. However, PvE skills changed that. lolursan. Oops.

Optional grind is IMO a good thing - it gives people something to do, if they choose to do it.

To someone like me who started playing 36 months ago*, there is no chance i like it more now than when it was just prophecies.

Same here - but I think everything is more fun when you're new and have no idea what you're doing. Ignorance is bliss.

Back when there was no grind in Guild Wars it was fun because you didn't feel compelled to do anything in particular, although, the lack of it made the game a bit boring after you beat it for a couple times.

People were expected to go to PvP after they learned the game in PvE, but hey, what if they don't like competition and want some more stuff to do in PvE?

Anyways, i don't like the title grind, in fact i hate it, but i have to admit that i was about to give up on GW, and i would, if it wasn't for titles. Titles made me keep playing.

EDIT:
QFT.

Bingo titles were introduce to make up for the lack of depth, GW is a really shallow MMO compared to the Big boys on the market, without title grind i wonder how many gamers would still play this game? after you complete all 4 chapters and get some elite armor there's nothing left to do in this game, I was bored of GW after 4 months, friends are the only reason why I am here still.

heh yeah i remember my noob days:P was awesome

Titles seemed like a good idea at first. Till they made titles affect skills/affect getting into parties. Or had those ludicrous grinds. Or had the stupid KoaBD.

Yeah there is grind,repetitive dungeons runs and filling out those hero/dungeon hand books but I do things in moderation so it isn't that bad at all. As always, some like to rush through everything. GW2 is still a ways to go so we all have plenty of time to finish what we want to.

Theres definitely a grind if you want to do everything in the game but its not required everyone has a choice if they want to grind or not but without the grinding options the game would become old with nothing to look forward to for many that play alot and there wouldnt be the longevity that GW has had and continues to have.

I feel like it was a lot better before titles, but the population would've decreased much much faster without them. Sadly most guilds nowadays are grind-fests, and PUGs are pretty much non-existent in most missions. And somehow I'm still having fun

grind what grind its all fun from where im standing any how the truth is it is we the players who made it what it is to day after all when we finished the pve side we were ment to trot of over to the dark side but i guess the most of us got lost on the way

Another grind thread? What about using the search and type in 'grind'...

grind is why only the characters who want eye armor are going passed eye of the north post.....otherwise I see no real reason for the 'expansion' since its all just grind grind and more grind---and even most of the armors arent worth it so after I get the new skills I doubt that my characters will finish it.
The chapters kept me entertained enough (though nightfall has got me bogged down due to the grind of points and poorly designed quests etc)....

so I agree with the poster who said that they added the titles to make up for the lack of depth....if they had just spent more time and effort in making the game grind would not have been necessary to introduce at all......