Who here WANTS GW2 to have a level cap...
xyke
if there is NO lvl cap i wont play gw2 anyway
MithranArkanere
A level cap is irrelevant.
In GUild Wars, Level is not synonym of Power.
We already know that once you hit a certain level, you will not gain much more power that the previous one, that when joining parties, power will be 'averaged' so everyone in the party is mostly the same, and that in PvP everyone will be completely equal, regardless of level.
So who cares about level? Someone stuck with the old ways, like WoW and his 'level 70' crap.
In GUild Wars, Level is not synonym of Power.
We already know that once you hit a certain level, you will not gain much more power that the previous one, that when joining parties, power will be 'averaged' so everyone in the party is mostly the same, and that in PvP everyone will be completely equal, regardless of level.
So who cares about level? Someone stuck with the old ways, like WoW and his 'level 70' crap.
Turtle222
Actually, as long as there is no level requirements for doing certain things then its ok. I.e: cannot use mount until level 40, cannot eat watermelon until level 23...it gets that ridiculous.
u personally don't really mind either way. As long as i don't see players looking for groups with xxxx amount of experience etc ("lfp 3000000xp+ only with cons). Do you see what i am saying? i don't want to have to resort to my main as his/her experience is the highest just to get into a group who believe prestige is gained by how much experience you gain wiht a character.
u personally don't really mind either way. As long as i don't see players looking for groups with xxxx amount of experience etc ("lfp 3000000xp+ only with cons). Do you see what i am saying? i don't want to have to resort to my main as his/her experience is the highest just to get into a group who believe prestige is gained by how much experience you gain wiht a character.
Lest121
I voted yes. lvl 20 is fine by me just add more content, content is better than grinding level 100 or 200.
lyra_song
Character development does not require a higher level cap. It never had.
IRL, Trying to measure something like a person's development and growth by empirical methods such as numbers like IQ, or Grade, etc is not aways accurate or smart.
imo a person is best measure by their deeds and actions and abilities, and the bonds and relationships they form with people.
So, in a RPG, i think this is what should matter most and their gaming equivalences would be WITHOUT being simply a measure of time spent.
IRL, Trying to measure something like a person's development and growth by empirical methods such as numbers like IQ, or Grade, etc is not aways accurate or smart.
imo a person is best measure by their deeds and actions and abilities, and the bonds and relationships they form with people.
So, in a RPG, i think this is what should matter most and their gaming equivalences would be WITHOUT being simply a measure of time spent.
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ
Also, if the whole egalitarian low-level-cap thing is so good, why not take it to extremes and have a level cap of 1? No character development at all, you just play through the game and against others as-is, like an FPS.
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JR
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Originally Posted by garethporlest18
Yes if you want Guild Wars 2 to have a max play time of 8 hours and a replayability of 1 month at most. NO. GW 2 shall not ever be like that or it will face suckage.
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Another person who has fallen into the trap of thinking levels = content.
MoreArrows
Yes, there should be a level cap. GW is skill based - thats why it is the best mmo around. The level cap should be easy to get to as well like it is currently. I don't mind what the cap is, as long as it is not challenging to acheive. Currently 90% of the game is played at level 20, probably even 95%.
Divine Xan
If there isnt some form of cap on levels or gains of abilities (ie hp/energy etc..) then GW2 will just be a grind-fest to be 'good' like other (bad) MMO's like WoW or RS... Which would kill my interest in the game,as many have said should be a skill based game, not a amount of time based game... (basically as most of the above.. lol..)
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by JR
Not that I entirely agree with the person you quoted, but that statement makes no sense. Think about the percentages of play time per level. I'd guess about 96-99.99% of an average characters play time happens after reaching level 20. There is no more advancement in level to reach for, but that doesn't stop people playing.
Another person who has fallen into the trap of thinking levels = content. |
Kyp Jade
Not many different forms of character development actually work. Leveling is used because it works. Other development forms, such as attribute advancement through use, is a terrible failure. One need only look at Final Fantasy 2 to see the disaster of that leveling scheme.
Sleeper Service
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Originally Posted by Kyp Jade
Not many different forms of character development actually work. Leveling is used because it works. Other development forms, such as attribute advancement through use, is a terrible failure. One need only look at Final Fantasy 2 to see the disaster of that leveling scheme.
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BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by Kyp Jade
Not many different forms of character development actually work. Leveling is used because it works. Other development forms, such as attribute advancement through use, is a terrible failure. One need only look at Final Fantasy 2 to see the disaster of that leveling scheme.
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Look at Ultima Online, which doesn't have any levels. Terrible failure? I don't think so.
Nazar Razak
I want a level cap.
(not sure if this has been mentioned, im certainly not going to read 15 pages :P). But even if after a certain amount of levels, you stop getting bonuses, just think about how the people are going to look for level 134234+ anyway. Elitists, we allready have it with Titles, please dont make the next game have it too.
(not sure if this has been mentioned, im certainly not going to read 15 pages :P). But even if after a certain amount of levels, you stop getting bonuses, just think about how the people are going to look for level 134234+ anyway. Elitists, we allready have it with Titles, please dont make the next game have it too.
snaek
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Originally Posted by garethporlest18
No no no. I said that Guild Wars being like an FPS would totally suck. I think Guild Wars 2 should have no levels, but a different form of character development. I want Guild Wars to stay an RPG, it doesn't need levels to do so. FPS' have also not been known for garnishing a lot of content. I want Guild Wars 2 to have so much content that boredom doesn't' come for 4 years. But that probably won't happen.
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(though cs is kinda dying/dead and bein replaced by teh new fps games)
i would really like to see gw move even moreso into a widespread tournament/competitive play scene
games like street fighter 2 still get tons of play (by fighting game fans)
simply for the fact that there r tons of tournaments for it
competitive play creates an everlasting longevity for a game
pve is not competitive at all
so how do u create everlasing pve gameplay?
creating more and more content continiously is unrealistic
and a high lvl cap only delays the end
and no lvl cap does not mean infinite amount of content
so dun think that jus because u can get to lvl 934, that levels 20-934 will be any more fun than if it were jus capped at lvl20
~~~~
wut kind of character development r u talkin bout?
the only way a high-level can mean any kind of 'prestigious' status is this:
beat a difficult quest/challenge/mission = lvl up
beat a progressively more difficult quest/challenge/mission = next lvl up
etc.
and not:
grind 109,598 easily defeated foes = lvl up
grind 2,095,109 easily defeated foes = next lvl up
etc.
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by snaek
yesh, because games like counter-strike get no playtime at all
(though cs is kinda dying/dead and bein replaced by teh new fps games) i would really like to see gw move even moreso into a widespread tournament/competitive play scene games like street fighter 2 still get tons of play (by fighting game fans) simply for the fact that there r tons of tournaments for it competitive play creates an everlasting longevity for a game pve is not competitive at all so how do u create everlasing pve gameplay? creating more and more content continiously is unrealistic and a high lvl cap only delays the end and no lvl cap does not mean infinite amount of content so dun think that jus because u can get to lvl 934, that levels 20-934 will be any more fun than if it were jus capped at lvl20 ~~~~ wut kind of character development r u talkin bout? the only way a high-level can mean any kind of 'prestigious' status is this: beat a difficult quest/challenge/mission = lvl up beat a progressively more difficult quest/challenge/mission = next lvl up etc. and not: grind 109,598 easily defeated foes = lvl up grind 2,095,109 easily defeated foes = next lvl up etc. |
Random Scrubinator
Level cap or not, there is going to be the same amount of content. The only way to increase replay value through levels, holding the amount of content constant, is grind.
Let's say I had to play area A 8 times to be able to go to area B. After doing the same exact thing 3 times, I'll get bored and end up paying a runner to do the mission for me 5 more times. Later on, area A is too uninteresting to replay with the current character due to being overleveled
However, if there is an quickly achieved level cap, it might still be worthwhile to replay area A after beating area B. There is actually more replay value when most of the content is still interesting as opposed to the last 10% of the content being interesting.
Grind also discourages creation of multiple characters, which is also another form of replay value.
Edit: I might also add that replay time is not equivalent to replay value. In fact, I'd say that time spent on unnecessary grind is a net loss of value, as I could have used the time to do something else more interesting
Let's say I had to play area A 8 times to be able to go to area B. After doing the same exact thing 3 times, I'll get bored and end up paying a runner to do the mission for me 5 more times. Later on, area A is too uninteresting to replay with the current character due to being overleveled
However, if there is an quickly achieved level cap, it might still be worthwhile to replay area A after beating area B. There is actually more replay value when most of the content is still interesting as opposed to the last 10% of the content being interesting.
Grind also discourages creation of multiple characters, which is also another form of replay value.
Edit: I might also add that replay time is not equivalent to replay value. In fact, I'd say that time spent on unnecessary grind is a net loss of value, as I could have used the time to do something else more interesting
warcrap
i vote for the lvl cap being 100.
prism2525
I opt for no cap in PvE in a non-broken way.
I always felt it was unfair other NPCs could rock the hell beneath your feet and you're stuck with lava font >.>
I always felt it was unfair other NPCs could rock the hell beneath your feet and you're stuck with lava font >.>
HuntMaster Avatar
Another alternative to character levels is skill levels and item levels.
Break skills down into a few groups.
Active= You click to use them.
Passive= They work all the time.
Now we can keep the 8 skill bar for active skills and have an internal skill bar for passive skills. Passive skills can raise our life, energy, armor, damage and so forth.
Then we have item levels.
Weapons gain levels which gives more damage, added special effects like conditions or hexes.
Armor gains levels which gives more defense, life, energy and added special effects like condition protection and hex protection.
You could then max every skills and item level, or just max those skills and items you use daily. Just another idea on its way to the toilet I thought I'd share.
Break skills down into a few groups.
Active= You click to use them.
Passive= They work all the time.
Now we can keep the 8 skill bar for active skills and have an internal skill bar for passive skills. Passive skills can raise our life, energy, armor, damage and so forth.
Then we have item levels.
Weapons gain levels which gives more damage, added special effects like conditions or hexes.
Armor gains levels which gives more defense, life, energy and added special effects like condition protection and hex protection.
You could then max every skills and item level, or just max those skills and items you use daily. Just another idea on its way to the toilet I thought I'd share.
Sniper22
Um... how will no level cap make this game more fun, seriously? Just because you don't have a level cap, that doesn't mean you're gonna have stuff to do. Eventually, you will run out of quests and missions and you won't be able to level up through that anymore. The only way to level up would be to grind by killing mobs. If you don't want a lvl cap or want one extremely high, why are you playing GW? Plenty of subscription free grindfests.
BTW this poll is so inaccurate its not even funny. How many people that play GW are on this forum? I would be the majority of the people here don't fit the "casual player" at all. I'd bet most of us here are hardcore. (I think I'm between casual and hardcore). GW was created for the casual player, and i'd bet that they make up the majority of the population. Remove the level cap and you remove all those players including me and others who posted here. Maybe a level-free system could work, but it would take a lot of effort.
BTW this poll is so inaccurate its not even funny. How many people that play GW are on this forum? I would be the majority of the people here don't fit the "casual player" at all. I'd bet most of us here are hardcore. (I think I'm between casual and hardcore). GW was created for the casual player, and i'd bet that they make up the majority of the population. Remove the level cap and you remove all those players including me and others who posted here. Maybe a level-free system could work, but it would take a lot of effort.
Maximumraver
Don't care.
Yes=20
No=no cap at all.
Yes=20
No=no cap at all.
NoXiFy
ohai hoew is everyone? my threads always get +100 replies... or their locked. that makes me feel special.
on topic: just thinking that a niceeeeeeeee level would be 60. idk why... but 60 just sounds nice. triple the time to get it from the first game... and a high enough number to know you've acomplished something. XD
on topic: just thinking that a niceeeeeeeee level would be 60. idk why... but 60 just sounds nice. triple the time to get it from the first game... and a high enough number to know you've acomplished something. XD
CagedinSanity
I can barely keep interest in my WoW characters after level 40ish. The exp needed to level again just becomes incredibly pointless.
I hope GW does not use that model.
I hope GW does not use that model.
Ace2001
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Originally Posted by CagedinSanity
I can barely keep interest in my WoW characters after level 40ish. The exp needed to level again just becomes incredibly pointless.
I hope GW does not use that model. |
On-topic: I think I'd like a level limit around 40-50. I actually LIKE having a low level cap, and just rellying on skills and builds.
HuntMaster Avatar
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Originally Posted by Ace2001
If you think WoW has a high level/exp curve, try maplestory. AT BEST, I was getting about 5% every 10 minutes at level 50. So that took me... 200 minutes to level up? So that's what, about 5 hours? (And trust me, it was way longer than that, cuz my group didn't win every round of the in-game game we were playing.)
On-topic: I think I'd like a level limit around 40-50. I actually LIKE having a low level cap, and just rellying on skills and builds. |
I'v never played a game that required more work for a level than the mighty D2LOD level 99. And I played diablo2 LOD on and off for 7 years, Still do! So level grind does not make or break a game, Its the stuff you do in between levels that matters.
That is why I say we could have 100 levels no problem, The ONLY problem is having the content enjoyable enough to make the time entertaining and not feel like an 8 hour shift at work. I killed Diablo, Mephisto and Baal more than 100,000 times and I never got bored til the very end, 6 months after gw came out. But I was addicted to the game. It took 2 years til I could no longer hear the laugher of the lord of destruction, and it still calls to me even now.
GW2 could have 1,000 levels aslong as the game is fun and the XP progression is regulated by the progress of the game you wouldnt even notice.
If it takes a year to beat the game, would you still play it? Sure! beat alittle of the game each day, moderate the amount of time spent, keeping the game enjoyable and not turning into a drag. Ok, Now lets say that it takes a year to gain max level. Do you need to be max level before you beat the game? No! You don't. You only need to be as high a level as the games difficulty requires.
Crom The Pale
Its not the level cap thats the problem, its how you advance that is.
After a certain lvl via EXP you should gain levels by completing quests/missions/dungeons/ect...
I would suggest from 1-30 normal lvling but for each lvl after that you need to complete unique quest.
After a certain lvl via EXP you should gain levels by completing quests/missions/dungeons/ect...
I would suggest from 1-30 normal lvling but for each lvl after that you need to complete unique quest.
Ate of DK
Same as GW1.
Seriously I don't see the need for GW2 yet with so many options for add-ons.
Seriously I don't see the need for GW2 yet with so many options for add-ons.
HuntMaster Avatar
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
Same as GW1.
Seriously I don't see the need for GW2 yet with so many options for add-ons. |
garethporlest18
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Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
Exactly, We could have expansions for factions and nightfall, then they could release the 4th stand alone installment, then another expansion. But they want mo-money.
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Age
I would say there should be and it should be no more than 40 although 20 would still be nice.
Sirius-NZ
The need for GW2 is that GW1 won't do what they want it to. If they could do it in GW1 they would, because the production costs are cheaper when you don't have to do massive-scale redevelopment of stuff.
That and GW2 probably won't cost any more than another GW1 campaign anyway...
That and GW2 probably won't cost any more than another GW1 campaign anyway...
sixofone
I guess it's a question of: what do you want Level to mean?
By that - do you want Level to do something (+HP; +dam; etc.), or do you want it merely as a reflection of how much time you've spent playing the game?
I like the current system as it is where the point is that skill>time spent playing. Aren't there good "level-less" games out there where you basically have no "level", but acquire more (and better) skills as you progress through the story-line?
Doesn't a level cap make PvP more viable? Isn't the point of PvP to match skills against an opponent who has the same level?
As for the "pointless grind" question: it would be nice to have titles affect gameplay. It does with all the faction PvE skills, and EotN totally went in that direction with all their imba skills. This should allow for more differences between players, provided they make title effects balanced, so that if I pursue a particular faction-line, my l20 Warrior won't be the same as another l20 Warrior with the same skill set and attribute spread.
I prefer more content to more titles, especially as they now exist.
Make skills attainable via quests and missions, and less where you can simply purchase them.
Make unique items unique! There should be no craftable "greens."
Either make professions unique, and as equitable as possible, or have no classes and it's all about the skills you acquire. (Again, EotN went in the latter direction.) Personally, I'd like deeper, more interesting and variable classes - and a system where no 2 Necros are likely to be the same. Even if they choose the same skills, couldn't there be a way to specialize or invest more xp in a particular branch of one's profession? Like the current attributes, but more so, more complex, for richer variation.
All of which I want for one low price and no monthly fee!
lol
By that - do you want Level to do something (+HP; +dam; etc.), or do you want it merely as a reflection of how much time you've spent playing the game?
I like the current system as it is where the point is that skill>time spent playing. Aren't there good "level-less" games out there where you basically have no "level", but acquire more (and better) skills as you progress through the story-line?
Doesn't a level cap make PvP more viable? Isn't the point of PvP to match skills against an opponent who has the same level?
As for the "pointless grind" question: it would be nice to have titles affect gameplay. It does with all the faction PvE skills, and EotN totally went in that direction with all their imba skills. This should allow for more differences between players, provided they make title effects balanced, so that if I pursue a particular faction-line, my l20 Warrior won't be the same as another l20 Warrior with the same skill set and attribute spread.
I prefer more content to more titles, especially as they now exist.
Make skills attainable via quests and missions, and less where you can simply purchase them.
Make unique items unique! There should be no craftable "greens."
Either make professions unique, and as equitable as possible, or have no classes and it's all about the skills you acquire. (Again, EotN went in the latter direction.) Personally, I'd like deeper, more interesting and variable classes - and a system where no 2 Necros are likely to be the same. Even if they choose the same skills, couldn't there be a way to specialize or invest more xp in a particular branch of one's profession? Like the current attributes, but more so, more complex, for richer variation.
All of which I want for one low price and no monthly fee!
lol
Chrono Re delle Ere
Of course we need level cap, but I would like levels to keep adding on....no more boosts, just show off :P Yea, useless, but will be funny to be lvl 999 xD
Solas
/signed want a level cap
Shyft the Pyro
I want either a low level cap (as in GW1) which will put everyone on an even footing, or no level cap, but with invisible levels. No level cap + visible level numbers = e-peen & elitism, playing into the time > skill camp, and I don't want that in my game.
Age
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Originally Posted by JR
Not that I entirely agree with the person you quoted, but that statement makes no sense. Think about the percentages of play time per level. I'd guess about 96-99.99% of an average characters play time happens after reaching level 20. There is no more advancement in level to reach for, but that doesn't stop people playing.
Another person who has fallen into the trap of thinking levels = content. |
Willow O Whisper
/ signed for lvl cap at 20.
If someone else want to have some stupidly high number displayed after their name let them. As long as it doesen't affect my gameplay ( I'm talking of cosmetic lvl's if you can call a lvl cosmetic at all.) Btw. Whats the point in being lvl 100 if the mobs gives you the same challange as they did at lvl 20 ? It's just meaningless grind and should not be implented into the game.
If someone else want to have some stupidly high number displayed after their name let them. As long as it doesen't affect my gameplay ( I'm talking of cosmetic lvl's if you can call a lvl cosmetic at all.) Btw. Whats the point in being lvl 100 if the mobs gives you the same challange as they did at lvl 20 ? It's just meaningless grind and should not be implented into the game.
HuntMaster Avatar
On the ladder of video game progression into something more than just a past time, Guildwars is a step down on that ladder.
Lets make a game with fewer levels, less content, more frustration and brainwash people into thinking its the best game out.
GW sucks, Its got very few good qualities about it and the only reason some people continue to play is the lack of a free to play mmo, time spent on the game already, and a need to find a redeeming feature in this streaming pile of pixil afterbirth.
Gw2 already faces bad pr and iffy fan support. I like enough to keep me playing for the moment, But I gotta see gw2 beta before I spend any money on another possible screwed up game where the devs want to leave the players frustrated.
Lets make a game with fewer levels, less content, more frustration and brainwash people into thinking its the best game out.
GW sucks, Its got very few good qualities about it and the only reason some people continue to play is the lack of a free to play mmo, time spent on the game already, and a need to find a redeeming feature in this streaming pile of pixil afterbirth.
Gw2 already faces bad pr and iffy fan support. I like enough to keep me playing for the moment, But I gotta see gw2 beta before I spend any money on another possible screwed up game where the devs want to leave the players frustrated.
Deadshot Seven
I am really, really hoping that they just make the level cap at level thirty, and the new bosses at level forty or a little bit higher.
The level twenty level cap is one of the things that makes guild wars fun and unique.
The level twenty level cap is one of the things that makes guild wars fun and unique.