Who here WANTS GW2 to have a level cap...

I've been thinking about this and the only way I can see any different sort of level system working and still appealing to the most players without screwing up the game is for PvE only skills. Basically let 1 level give you one more attribute point to put into your pve skill set. As long as you can pve without grinding levels using pvp skills and you can start at the max (GW1 equivalant of 200 attribute points) of for your pvp skills then it might work.

We don't need the current Guild Wars game with a different name.

Well, If we had no levels, then we would have to gain power some other way. Lets say whenever we beat a mission/quest/optional blah blah, we got a highlander styled powersurge, this would increase our skills, items, hit points, energy and whatever else. This would eliminate levels but still give us a way to power up.

But I see that a larger amount of GW's fanbase really enjoy short games with little content and no real challenge to attain max power/level/items. No one wants to work for it anymore. Everyone has gotten so lazy that the idea of taking a year to get everything in a game, including max power is horrible to them, even though they will play the game for a lot longer than a year, They want to do it quick, they want to finish it fast, and start all over again with more characters, Just so they can be the first to show off their 7 uber characters and so they can also be the first ones to get bored of the game, begin complaining about nothing new and quitting for a new game.

So I will let those fans continue to put forth ideas that support their game style without having to sift through my pointless ideas. I want a game that is better than that, But I see GW2 will not be that game, Its not what the fans want.

I hope I am wrong, I hope gw2 beta will open my eyes to the great game it could be. But as it is right now we have people arguing everything, no levels, no level cap, high level cap, low level cap, no pets, more pets, no AI companions, more AI companions, easier solo, no solo option, more content, less content.

Might as well scrap gw2, and spend the resources on fine tuning gw1.

I will now just wait and see. I understand the need to discuss the game, but this thread is fast becoming pointless. So good luck to you all, I hope you each get something in the game you love, I'm off to grind title points since thats all thats left in gw1 to do besides play abusive pvp.

/signed, but only if there is a scaling for attributes( stop at lvl 20 for example)

i hope gw2 has a level cap, preferrably low.
i actually stopped playing a few games bcuz of their high level cap. was annoying. i dont like having to spend months and months just to get to max level
i looove the level 20 cap of gw

Level 20 cap ftw my favorite thing bout GW.

I would like to see a very high level cap, however, a character cannot gain benefits from having a higher level after a certain point.

uhh..

Because you can be so lazy in this game, that you get done max development in 10 hours ?

Because the game offers no content for your character, after lvl 20, then Elite armors and massive retarded grind for E Peen, that all requires from you only to be rich like Dagobert Duck?

Because you are feared of the Number 100,that you think its the end of the world to play games with such a level cap and games with such a Cap will automatically mean endless grind, that is even more braindead, than the grind mentioned above?

Because you are one of those people, which are ever a a rush, have never tiem for something and want due to this have done everythign ever as fast as possible?

Because you seem to believe, that a Level Cap of 100 makes GW2 automatically a WoW Clone?

Because you think, with such a Cap would lose GW automatically its playerbase completely?

Because to play a Character for 1 Month, god that are only 30 days in average, is so freaking too much work for a max level Chara?
Go play Ragnarok Online on an official Server with 1/1/1 rates, then you will really learn, what Grind is!!!

ect pp. could sure make some more questions like these...

Fact is imo, there is really nothing, that speaks against a Level Cap of 100, as long anet balances very good the Character Deelopment System, implements to the game enough quests, sidequests and missions plus maybe a new addition of "sub-missions" of missions to give GW2 one real big good thign, that would improve the game very much over GW1 - an unlinear Story, where the player's decisions will influence the path of your characters story and where your characters can also land onto the evil path and will become villains, if the player wishes to create an evil character and not a stereotypical hero.
A Level Cap of 100 will give the Developers alot more options for better Character Development.

Anet has stated their vision of what the level Cap will be.. forget the old System of GW1 and learn to live with a Cap of 100 or something complete different based on infinite leveling with a high cap for characters development, but beign able to level unendlessly further, but then with no benefits anymore... ala GW1, but as said only with higher cap level.

When you can't live with the changes, which will be made in GW2, then just don't buy it and stay at your so beloved GW1.

Sounds maybe rude, but all this perma QQ about level cap of 20 should stay makes sick, when it is absolutely clearly stated by anet, that to the major changes of GW2 belongs it, that the level Cap will be much higher. GW2 won't be again a game, that seems to be concepted based on PvP more over PvE...
Its like as if you try to convict somebody, that Black is White and White is Black... when you were teached, before, that Black is Black and White is White

In GW2 it will be far more looking like 50/50, because the intention of the Devs was it ever, to create a game, where PvE and PvP become more and more one and don't get looked at, like 2 complete different gameplay modes.
PvP alone will be never interesting enough as concept for a game based on it.
its the PvE Base, which keeps yet GW1 alive, not PvP. PvP is more or less DEAD and only the few Elite guilds of GW participate more or less, when it goes about the real PvP of GW - the Tournaments, the only PvP in the game, thats anyhow interestign for players, because there you can win prizes with through your Gameplay Skills as Team.

This is also the reason ,why in GW2 will not again exist PVP-Characters. All characters, that we will create in GW2 will be PvE-Characters with that we will play then PvP in the so then called World-PvP, defending your own World (Dimension) agaisnt players of other World Dimensions. Which lets think of the fact, that it seems, that for this kind of PvP GW2 will have alot more servers, than GW1 had and I'm also sure, they will be needed to provide the power to create a persistant world in that should live millions of players mostly ever simultanously and to become the game to a playable point, without insane lags making it unplayable. and for level Differencies comes then in the mentioned Sidekick System, that players with too low levels simple get buffed temporarely to the cap level, that everyone will have, when going to participate on world pvp with your character.

See this is what the problem is here. You use the word "lazy". If you haven't realized... this is a video game. I don't know what you do for a job or school or both, but I believe that people play video games to take a break for all the work in their daily life. What's the point of coming home from school, working on homework, and then going to work on your video game? You shouldn't have to try to hit the level cap. You should be able to get the cap by just playing casually through the missions/quests which you kinda mentioned. But lvl cap in the 100s just sounds like a big number. Lvl cap of 50 sounds nice to start out with, and then move it up the cap with expansions, but never into the triple digits. Just because they set the cap at lvl 100... doesn't mean it will take a long time to get depending on how they set the xp req for each lvl. Dunno bout you, but saying "hey i'm level ONE-HUN-DRED-FIF-TY-FOUR" in my head is way too many syllables to say.

This is what I suggest. Cap the lvl at 50 to start. Experience points over lvl 50 will be added to a pve rank (like our current pvp rank) which is mainly for show. Then maybe add some benefits to ranks (that are reasonable in reach for people). Say like r3 pve people can get access to this elite mission area or get pve only skills or new shiny looking weapons and armor (15k armor/elite weapons). When expansions come out to raise the cap, rank points will not spill over into going to the next lvl, so people will still have to increase their lvl like everyone else at the release. PvE rank will have no effect on PvP at all. What do you think about that? (trying to compromise here to suggest an idea fair for both people...)

The whole thing is situational - involving a few separate scenarios that would affect my answer.

1) No level cap, +stats are gained every level. PvP would be a joke along with the whole concept of PvE (grindwars yeye)

2) No level cap, +stats are no longer gained after a certain level. PvP would at least be more balanced than situation one but I'm not sure how the elitism (and scrubness) of the guild wars community would deal with that when it comes to forming pugs.

3) Level Cap, ridiculously high though. LOLGRINDWARS

4) Level Cap, low max level. This is my ideal situation - max out your level and stats and then the real fun can begin - much like how GW1 is less about leveling and much more about the experiences you have after you max out your level. This places less of an emphasis on grind and more on skill however broken PvE skills and dumb titles could easily change this. I still believe that this situation is the best route to go, I really don't want to play GW2 if it's just gonna be like WoW or a korean grindfest MMO.

Personally I want them to keep it low preferably 20. If however they do decide to change it I hope it is not to high... maybe 30?

yes, maybe to ~30...

i.e. you'd reach your level cap approximately when you finish the campaign without doing any side quests

yes, cuz halo 3, grand theft auto 4, guitar hero 3, etc r such big failures of games for sticking to their formulas

Halo 3 was a failure, GTA4 is just the same game as the others before and nobody caresabout GH3.

GTA4 though has multiplayer. Halo 3 is just halo 2 with some new textures.

I'm guessing everyone wants the situation to be like halo. Guild Wars 2 can be the same as the current game, except with a few changes here and there and better graphics.

Successful from a financial stand point, the game itself will be epic fail, just like H3 was.

ok ive been reading most of this thread. Having a level cap at lvls 50-100 will not make this a skill based game. The reason gws is my favorite game is because you can get level 20 fairly simple but the game still gets more challenging. It makes you try to think of new ways to meet your goals. While with a higher level cap, instead of people thinking of new ways to beat the mission, they will just go, I'm not strong enough now i'll try in a few more levels. This would happen with both unlimited and high caps. I believe 20-30 is where the level cap needs to be. 50-100 is far too much and quite frankly getting to lvl 100 you would have to grind and grind and grind because their is no way gw2 is gonna b so long that you will be at lvl 100 by the time you are threw ( unless of course it is like PSO and have 4 different difficultys or more) Anet needs to make a level cap and keep it low.

People don't want to work to be equal to each other. I think they should have to if they play a game like this. You want to play a game for fun? Check out GTA series or like it was said Halo or some sport or racing game. Hell even in those you have to work for stuff. Should be the same in this game. I think they started off decent with Guild Wars then went down hill.

Course lazy people, and yes that's what you are guys don't try to say you dont' know me or don't deny it, you're lazy if you don't want to earn things, want GW 2 to be exactly like GW 1, because they're mad and upset their perfect little world is gonna come to a half end. Time for change people, time to make something better than Guild Wars 1 even if it implements shit you don't like.

I don't want Guild Wars 2 to flop because I've got high hopes for it, if it doesn't undo itself from at least 90% of what Guild Wars was, then it will get boring very fast.

Tigercat that might have worked early on in the game's life, but that's not how it is now. You don't have to think at all to play Guild Wars now n days, Anet shouldn't follow their same old formula unless they can do it better without the mess ups this time. Also a level 100 cap = no grind unless you've been playing games without quests/missions.

thats jus so wrong...

u want to kno y halo 3, gta4, and gh3 r great games?
not cuz it takes u 2 yrs to finish em...
cuz it has great gameplay
great gameplay that makes u want to come back and play it again and again

go back to console rpgs and click-n-point adventure games

i prefer replay value vs game length

Yes

Unless after a certaint point, it doesn't matter (Like current GW, where you get a skill point but nothing more).

A poll is nice, but this one has misleading answers. It should really be something like:

Do you want GW2 to have a level cap? (same question)
Yes, a low one like GW1
Yes, a high one
No cap, or extremely high, and no advancement beyond a low level
No cap, or extremely high, and advancement continues
No levels at all - put some other system in place (explain)
Other (explain)

I know it's a little convoluted, but it gets the point(s) across. It seems there is a bit of confusion over what it means to have a level cap versus having no cap. Some are thinking no level cap means insane power creep that makes the 24/7 players become gods. Others assume that a level cap automatically means level 20 as it's always been. Neither are necessarily true, and in fact can mean the exact opposite. Anarchy Online, for instance, has a level cap of 220.

I would definitely prefer no cap, or no levels period. Levels and experience are simply a means to gauge your character's progress, and shows how much time you've spent actually playing. It is traditionally used as a rewards system - you get the next level, and you've earned xx attribute points, xx health, and xx energy, etc. While the level system in GW does have that aspect, it is more designed with 'training' in mind, rather than progression.

I think that, in that respect, GW's level system is a let-down. A starting player (as I, and all of you once were) will start to level get the reward for killing things. It feels like every other RPG out there. In Prophecies, you slowly gained level after level as you went through the game; again, just like all the other RPGs. You reached a high point in the game, a climax, if you will, where you finally reach that top level, ready to face the 'true evil,' just like all the other RPGs.

GW isn't like all the other RPGs, though, and by the time you've beaten Prophecies, you realize that. The other chapters only emphasized: "Hey, level 20 is only the beginning!" But really, after the adventure of gaining level after level, it feels like the end. Sure, there's a ton of content made for level 20's that says it really is the beginning, but it just feels like you wasted your time 'training' up to 20, even if it was the most fun you had.

My point is: remove the level system, and you remove that feeling of let-down; that false sense of what the game is really about. Make everything "level 20 content," and make everyone "level 20" from the start - no levels.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still like the idea of experience and showing how long you've actually played a character. Character progression is an integral part of RPGs, and there should still be an element of 'training.' But, experience doesn't have to equal level, and level doesn't have to equal power. Make your 'level' be more like a security badge - it shows how prominent your character is (influence, rank, etc), it shows how 'skilled' you are (access to more skills, ability to use different kinds of weapons, armor, etc), it shows the kinds of areas you can access (new zones open up, elite areas, endgame, etc), hell it may even allow you to do things others can't (attacking guards/NPCs in towns, learn different PvE skills like disarming traps, lockpicking, loot skills, etc).

But - regardless of how long you played that character, you could still be taken down by a freshly-made character just as quickly as you could take them down. You can say you're better because of all your shiny gear and leet influence, but in the end, you still have to prove it, and you can still lose.

I come from the days of Diablo 2 where Lvl 99 was leet. I don't want a lvl cap. It shouldn't affect anything either. It just gives people something to keep doing. Have PvP oriented to levels. Have an insanely long evolving story line. That way it never ends, there's always something to do. Updates that add new story lines that are accomidated to your level. This way you don't get stuck with one line of weapons that have no benefits over another. This is just my take though, which alot of people disagree with. Higher level cap means more opportunity for new aspects of the game. More diversity = more fun.

I should also note; in Diablo 2 you never needed to level up all the way to 99. It was so time-consuming that only a few people ever did it, and the rewards were pretty marginal by that point anyway.

Re: GW2 again - if there is no level cap in general, there probably will be in PvP, unless levels stop doing anything at some point.

Also, if the whole egalitarian low-level-cap thing is so good, why not take it to extremes and have a level cap of 1? No character development at all, you just play through the game and against others as-is, like an FPS.

Lvl 20 is fine because you play so long gw already and you dont know anything else.. but if it gets 30/40/50.. but that you get a lower reward so it cost the same time to get lvl 20.. with lvl 30 or 40.. but GW2 getting amazing.. can't wait!

level cap is essential to game balance. now as to how high the cap is, thats open for debate.imagine.. LV 1500 warrior lfg...i mean... come on..the monsters need to be proportinate to the level. soo you get a guy thats level 300 in a 1000+ area, rediculous.Im sure they could make it so that there cant be a difference of mroe tha say... 5 levels with in the party.. so a lv 10 cna take 1 lv 10 and 1 lv 5 and thats the leeway. thye could implement something liek that but what wuld happen to the monsters? what level would they be? would the server detect the level of your group and load in the appropriate monsters? that could be lag issues there. Balance is what made guild wars work. despite how we hate the nerf bat, it keeps the game in check. in WoW its all about who has the right gear. in GW that gear is available to all at a cheap price. I hope and pray that GW2 is not jsut a different form of WoW in its core structure

I haven't read every person's comment, but in my opinion, a character with any level doesn't really meant that more time has to be invested to get that character to that level. In other words, getting to level 100 doesn't have to take months... it can take a week, for example. Therefore, I think it would be better to ask “if you would like to have a level cap, how long would you want to play to get to that level cap?”

Personally, I think that a duration of a month or month and a half for a casual player to reach a ’plateau’ would be acceptable. The ‘plateau’ idea was mentioned a few times by other people. PVE and PVP characters at this level would have the same stats. The ‘plateau’ level obviously doesn’t mean level cap. To get to the level cap (yes, I voted for level cap ), one would be required to go through certain quests, etc… Basically saying, it’s not an easy thing. In this way, not many people would be able to get to the level cap and this would stop the “need level # only”. In addition, people with levels higher than the level cap are granted access to areas where other’s can’t go. So, you have an area allowing only levels, say, 40-45 can go. Another allowing only levels 46-50. This will ensure that one level isn’t favoured over another.

In the end, even having a level 1000 can mean nothing if it takes a week to level up to that. So what if big numbers are displayed on screen? You hitting a monster with 100 for 1 damage a hit is the same as hitting a monster with 10000 for 100 damage a hit.

Actually this is wrong because skill power is also based on level and the attributes you gain per level. You don't get your maximum hit points until you hit level 20 and Nightfall and Factions gives you the +30 bonus attribute points waaaay too early compared to Prophecies. Most were most likely level 20's before they even got the last of their +15 attribute points in Prophecies I really hope they go back to that method of attribute and skill power gain. With 100 levels and perhaps 2pts of attributes per level that would take a good long time if the experience gain is low enough in the beginning. The real ruinage of GW started with the Beacons Perch to Droks run they allowed. It never should have been open or there should have be level restrictions on max gear which imho should have been 20 not 2. GW started going downhill from that point it was allowed and has since gone downhill in the eyes of many for so many game breaking changes and nerfs.

Thing is everyone will not be completely happy with GW2 just like GW1. It really depends on how great the changes are and how much more of a goal oriented game it becomes. Without unlimited goals and never ending quests (need a lot of random dungeons in it) the game will ultimately fail and people will lose interest as quickly as they have in GW1. If it doesn't have romper room easy gain and leveling most of the casuals here won't like it. If it doesn't have more than what GW has now then the hard core or those that can play numerous hours won't like it either. If they want to bring more than just what the community of players are now, they will have to put in some WOW/Evercrak type elements into it to gain those new purchasers. I've seen a lot of sequels and the majority of them have always changed much of the gameplay from what it was in the origional to draw in a new and different type of crowd. I really don't think GW2 is going to be ultimately directed at the GW1 community as much as it's going to be directed and bringing in a whole new bunch of gamers of a different style of play. But, I repeat myself.
We're really still at the wait and see portion of it all. There's no use really arguing what isn't solid factual information by anyone posting here as to what GW2 is going to offer or have. Maybe not too much longer we'll get a sneak preview or something that will give us some ideas we can really agrue about.

Actually, no, it's right. As your level increases, and your skills become more powerful, etc, etc, etc... guess what: so too do the monsters you fight. So in actuality, you are running on that treadmill. You think you're getting more powerful, when you're really just keeping up with the game. Once you hit 20 (or whatever the level cap may be), you are dealing just as much damage as you were when you were 1, you're just dealing it to other 20's instead of other 1's.

So yes, in the end:

All monsters aren't level 20 or 20+ once you reach level 20. You can go back to any area before level 20 and find monsters from 1 to 19. You do not have your full force of power until you are level 20 there for no you are wrong. You do not gain all your max abilities until you are level 20. So, once I reach my MAX power I can then go back to other earlier areas of the game and SOLO what I once required henchies or other players to kill. Thus my max power came from leveling.

No level cap please, max = insta boring.
Instead go with flat power level curve and infinite character development!

After gerring a certain level (like 100) the power gains should become smaller and smaller with further levels and gaining next levels should be harder and harder.
The game should still be much more about skill than time spent, should be accessible for new players after a year or two, but the gameplay should remain rewarding forever - you should always be able to improve a little tiny bit of something of your character.

No clearly visible level cap, no possibility of reaching any highest level doesn't mean we would see massive differences in the levels, nothing like that. Just look at my example:
1. Let's say level 100 is the highest level that is required for anything that requires a level, and this level is reasonably attainable for anyone by just completing the main storyline, doing every nonelite mission/dungeon at least once and doing most of sidequests (or by doing some hunting/farming, without any major grind)
2. Hardcore players should be able to reach that level 100 after ~2 weeks, it would take the more casual players about 2-3 months.
3. Characters can gain further levels above that level 100 but further levels take significantly longer to get, increasingly longer and harder, and give smaller benefits.
4. After 1 Year after release dedicated hardcore players would have one character past lev125 and a handful of most extreme players would be getting past 130. Casual players would reach 110 with one and have maybe 2 alts at 100 or just play one and get close to 115.
5. After 2 years and at least 1 big game expansion the majority of active playerbase should have at least 1 level 120, the hardcores would
6. After 3 years first player may reach level 150... still VERY few players are at 140...
7. While there's no clear level cap, nobody will get to 170 ever. Expansion will provide faster ways for getting from 100 to 110 or a little higher,

And ways to prevent the game from becoming a degenerate grindfest:
1. Every possible XP source should have a level and the XP gain should be smaller if that level is significantly lower than yours.
2. Every repeatable XP source should have an additional diminishing returns mechanism, so you will eventually gain zero or close to zero XP after killing 1000s of the same mobtype, even if your level is lower than the mobs.
3. Main and biggest XP sources should be: Primary and secondary single quests/missions and various one time achievements (like nongrind GW1 titles). Repeatable quests (diminishing), random hunt bounties (gain based on boss level), special events, or just killing various stuff (yes, it should be possible to reach very high levels by just killing a large variety of mobs including major big bosses, variety is good)

Having a level cap is wrong also because reaching it becomes the goal for almost everyone, and if it's hard and takes time, people will complain about grind... With No Max and with minimal power gains at higher levels reaching certain levels won't be a goal by themselves.

Really? And how often do you do that when you aren't farming for festival junk? If your idea of fun is 'getting to max power,' then wailing on everything below you, then yes, I can see why you'd want any level system. I just find it incredibly boring, which is why I'm totally against it.

No, as long as the higher levels are just a sign of experience (like skill points these days) without any stat bonuses.

If GW2 has no level cap, I won't buy it. (Too hard get fun in a game with an undefined level cap and level discrimation in PUGs is not a nice thing)

If GW2 has a low-medium-high level cap, prolly I'll buy it.

Gold farm bots > everyone else.

Well I really hope so but we'll all be the judge of that when the time is right.

Ofcourse they say it's gonna be better, they have to sell copies.

I'm still in favor of no levels and xp bar at all:
- no grind
- no discrimination
- no low level areas you never return to once you get passed them
- it fits with skill over time played

Since I started Raptor farming I have made about 13 mil. xp from that alone.
Considering GWII will undoubtedly have farming possibilities as well. To me, it more becomes a question of not letting "power farmers" gain too much game advantage (on top of the gold) from doing something that is essentially counterproductive to the sociable aspects of the game.

I agree, and having levels is virtually the same as having no levels.

• --Levels exist to throttle content; spoon feeding content to payers so they do not rush through the game. (There are alternatives, see GW1)
  
  
• --Levels exist to give the illusion of vertical progress, see above quote.
  
  
• --Levels are required to hook (and sometimes addict) a player into a "Pay to Play" business model, via Grind for Stats.
  
  
• --Levels exist to create a PvE competitive environment Vs other players.
  
  
• --Levels stratify the player base, via Stats, segregating and ultimately separating potential relationships and other player interactions.
  
  
• --Levels give hardcore players a sense of self worth, and sense of of empowerment over more casual players via Stats.
  
  
• --Levels make content obsolete.
  
  
• --Levels eventually make the entire game obsolete, as new players will not buy into something that requires months/years of grind to catch up. (see GW1's longevity and inclusive design.)
  
  
• --Levels cater to grinds, obsessive gameplay and those not smart enough to understand the value of time, or the detriment of time waisted.
  
  
• --Levels are the industry standard; fans of RPGs/MMOs have nothing else to gage such systems against. The industry has yet to discover fire and still eats its meat raw. Metaphorically speaking, Players still like to eat their meat raw, they've never tasted cooked food.
  
  
• --Levels require no skill to aquire, only time and grind.
  
  
• --Levels can be maxed without player interaction using bots, exploits, services etc. . .
  
  
• --Levels are unnecessary and should be scrapped for a better system in GW2

level 20 cap plz

Excellent post.

I want a level 1 cap. In all seriousness

Why? Because levels are good for nothing. All levels are really good for is the calculation of damage bonuses. So either you get +10 damage, or the monster gets +10 damage. But we don't need levels for that! In a best case scenario the designers can use levels to direct how the players progress though the world. Instead of a wall you just hit a mob of level 205 Bookahs, which is the same as putting a door with a key there. (Gain Key from Zaishen Keymaster after reaching level 200)

Levels also ultimately lead to Grind(TM). How do you combat a level 10 player? Have him face a lvl15 Skale. How do you combat a level 20 player? Throw some Lvl 28 Bison at him. You see where this is leading? AWAY from grind-free Guild Wars and back to gindaholic Japanese RPG. I thought GW did not want to copy other RPGs, yet levels are retained religiously.

What is giving you REALLY an advantage in GW?
* Availability of Skills
* Availability of Attributes (some requiring Grind, like Sunspear)
* Availability of Attribute points to invest in Attributes
* Health
* Gear

With the exception of gear, all those things are linked to levels for totally arbitrary reasons. We can distribute them ANY way without having to concern ourselves about a number next to our name. How often have you looked at ["X Rull0R X" 20], thought it was good, but only during the mission did you discover the insanity of his build. Already levels mean nothing, putting more into the game will not make it better, it will make it worse. Why bother checking if he uses a good build with good attribute distribution when you can just go "Oh well he is 52, that is enough". That will lead to level discrimination, which will force players to grind levels, the very thing GW was supposed not to be about.

So let us be level 1 for all eternity. Character growth is learning new skills on quests. Or unlock new attributes on quests as well as the ability to raise them one more point. We already have Attribute point quests. Why not hand out more of them instead of plain XP. Ultimately XP WILL be useless, meaningless, functionless. Why start using it as a measure when it will ultimately be useless after the player hits a power cap? If it is the catalyst of progress it will keep you from creating meaningful expansion packs. Instead you have to stop people from gaining XP at current max level, else they will have outgrinded the expansion on the day it is out.

We don't like levels, we like what comes with them, which is usually a few health points, five attribute points and a bit of damage reduction while fighting monsters. We call that character growth. but there are a million ways to deliver all of this without defaulting back to levels. Play Shadowrun (the pen and paper RPG), this is how it is done right without levels.

Id like a nice long game where there is a reason for lots of levels and what not, kinda like the way a jrpg works. A slow change in bad guy strength and a slow change in yours.

I'd take any level cap that I can reach without having to dedicate my life to it. I wouldn't mind higher than 20, but seriously, I want to play the game, not grind away. If I wanted major grinding, I'd play Wow, or go for GW1 titles.