PvE skill reversion, what do you want to see? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

19 May 2008 at 11:16 - 361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Make it have a standard build with say 4 optional slots. These slots will be decided upon entry. Scan the group for similar skills (damage type, skill type) and then add some counters in the optional slots.

There are so many cool things ANet could do with challenging PvE, but they just don't.

It'd only result in our beloved casuals leaving the game and carebears crying for more, better pve skills.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

19 May 2008 at 11:27 - 362

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

It'd only result in our beloved casuals leaving the game and carebears crying for more, better pve skills.

Make it HM only. The 'carebears' can stay in NM.

Nightmares Hammer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

19 May 2008 at 11:52 - 363

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Make it have a standard build with say 4 optional slots. These slots will be decided upon entry. Scan the group for similar skills (damage type, skill type) and then add some counters in the optional slots.

There are so many cool things ANet could do with challenging PvE, but they just don't.

The funny thing is, this could actually work. Lol.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

19 May 2008 at 12:15 - 364

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmares Hammer

The funny thing is, this could actually work. Lol.

Of course.

Another example. Group 1 is attempting to run a SF group in some HM area. The monsters respond by bringing [skill]Frigid Armor[/skill].

Or even better, make a global server that scans trends in player builds and automatically adjust the monsters skills to counter whatever the players are running.

The ultimate idea is to create an evolutionary algorithm. Add random mutations to monsters' builds, keep the new builds which perform better than the old builds. Rarely, do a large mutation, like a change of profession.

So many possibilities, so little done!

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

19 May 2008 at 12:57 - 365

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Of course.

Another example. Group 1 is attempting to run a SF group in some HM area. The monsters respond by bringing [skill]Frigid Armor[/skill].

Or even better, make a global server that scans trends in player builds and automatically adjust the monsters skills to counter whatever the players are running.

The ultimate idea is to create an evolutionary algorithm. Add random mutations to monsters' builds, keep the new builds which perform better than the old builds. Rarely, do a large mutation, like a change of profession.

So many possibilities, so little done!

This is passing fine line between challenging and stupid.

One thing is to add randomness to monsters so that players have to adapt runtime and stop running one-trick-pony builds, another thing is to give most monsters "i beat yoo!" skills.

Because if monsters became evolving they would eventually all get builds full of KDs, AOE spikes and snares which H/Hs and most players just can't handle.

I'd rather have monsters having several different builds that are given to them randomly and have random spawns.

For example:

White Mantle Ritualist

a) Mark of Subversion / Order of Pain / Vampiric Gaze / Well of the Profane
b) Mark of Subversion / Dark Fury / Life siphon / Well of Blood
c) Dark Bond / Strip Enchantment / Blood Ritual / Animate Bone Minions
d) Strip Enchantment / Mark of Subversion / Order of Pain / Well of Suffering

They all feel similar (so their RP feel is about same) and have similar capabilities but they have differences that you need to take into account when deciding about kill order (well, at least in HM). Also, if there are two in group, group can get more diverse skilsets (you don't want a) and b) in same group with couple of adrenaline based physicals. ... ). Nothing even remotely imba ... but enough to keep one guessing.

EmptySkull

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

KaoS League

E/

19 May 2008 at 13:03 - 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Ritualist
Channeling
Blood Song moved back to communing.

Communing
Displacement reverted back to it’s original form.
Shelter reverted back to it’s original form.
Union reverted back to it’s original form.
Xinrea’s weapon reverted back to it’s original form.

Restoration
No changes needed

Spawning Power
Ritual Lord reverted back to it’s original form.
* Also drop the –50 hp penalty to all spirits for PvE leave it for PvP.

I would love to see all of those reverted back. I had so much fun as a Rt Lord. Then the went and nerfed it. qq qq qq qq.

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

19 May 2008 at 14:39 - 367

Actually I think pve is quite well balanced now for a team of H/H. NM is easy with H/H and a lvl 20 properly equipped however it is the right difficulty for leveling up, especially in proph. Only a few times does it feel boring then, and sometimes you can come close to wiping in a normal mode mission. Normal mode is just a tad too easy, but I think a little thing like raising monsters by1 lvl across the board could probably fix it.

Hard Mode I'd say is ok too. I've done most HM dungeons and a little bit of vanquishing and I'd say it's hard. I havn't done a dungeon without consumables, and Rragar's is impossible for me with my trusty heroes. So it's certainly not "too easy".

However, I'm just running straight up trinity builds. E.g: 2 monks, sabway, 1 warrior, ranger interrupter and ele. I've not tried ursan or even been in a full ursan team. I can imagine it makes like very easy.

But just because ursan makes life easy in pve for some people, that doesn't the whole of pve should be changed in reaction to one skill. Either change the skill, or don't change either. Leaving the people who want loot fast without a challenge to play ursan and the rest who enjoy the game to play normal builds.

On topic: pve affects of skills shouldn't need to be changed much at all. Perhaps splinter, perhaps some binding rituals, maybe LoD. Nothing else

trankle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

BloodBath & Beyond

Rt/

19 May 2008 at 15:03 - 368

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Or even better, make a global server that scans trends in player builds and automatically adjust the monsters skills to counter whatever the players are running.

The ultimate idea is to create an evolutionary algorithm. Add random mutations to monsters' builds, keep the new builds which perform better than the old builds. Rarely, do a large mutation, like a change of profession.

So many possibilities, so little done!

I've always thought it would be fun have every explorable area contain one wide-patrolling group of eight that would exactly mirror the player party, from professions to skills (including PvE skills). They would be made up of appropriate enemy types (such as Wardens in Echovald, etc) so they wouldn't necessarily be immediately recognizable. The wide patrol would mean they may not always be encountered, but it would also mean that the party could get caught off-guard while engaging other enemies. It would go a long way toward keeping players alert, and to knowing the weaknesses of one's group's build.

Rene Saliere

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

New Zealand

19 May 2008 at 15:04 - 369

I only log into Guru to QQ about Ursan's Blessing. Has it been removed yet? I want to play GW again just as soon as it's gone.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

19 May 2008 at 15:15 - 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

I only log into Guru to QQ about Ursan's Blessing. Has it been removed yet? I want to play GW again just as soon as it's gone.

TOA would be immensely entertaining immediately after such an update went live.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

19 May 2008 at 15:21 - 371

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Of course.

Another example. Group 1 is attempting to run a SF group in some HM area. The monsters respond by bringing [skill]Frigid Armor[/skill].

Or even better, make a global server that scans trends in player builds and automatically adjust the monsters skills to counter whatever the players are running.

The ultimate idea is to create an evolutionary algorithm. Add random mutations to monsters' builds, keep the new builds which perform better than the old builds. Rarely, do a large mutation, like a change of profession.

So many possibilities, so little done!

I know PvE is easy, but COME ON!

If you MAKE people require build diversity, you would also have to allow 7 heroes, because the bars of henchies are usually terribad and you would have to go for a guild group or an ugly PuG.

Forcing diversity would be a good thing, but you have to keep in mind certain parts of it.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

19 May 2008 at 18:05 - 372

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I know PvE is easy, but COME ON!

If you MAKE people require build diversity, you would also have to allow 7 heroes, because the bars of henchies are usually terribad and you would have to go for a guild group or an ugly PuG.

Forcing diversity would be a good thing, but you have to keep in mind certain parts of it.

Sure. I'm all in for 7 heroes--even though it would kill the community even more. Playing alone is so boring. But again playing with retarded people is worse.

Quote:

Because if monsters became evolving they would eventually all get builds full of KDs, AOE spikes and snares which H/Hs and most players just can't handle.

The sucky players can stay in NM. Hard mode is supposed to be...hard.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

19 May 2008 at 19:39 - 373

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Sure. I'm all in for 7 heroes--even though it would kill the community even more. Playing alone is so boring. But again playing with retarded people is worse.

Guilds are there for a reason, and PuG's are terrible usually.

It wouldn't really kill the community as PuG's will remain bad and Guilds will exist.

illidan009

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

Volterra, Italy

A/

19 May 2008 at 22:16 - 374

HM IS supposed to be hard. That's way URSANWAY needs nerf...anyone that has enough time to grind to lvl 9 Norn could easily clear Mallyx even if they have no skills...

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

19 May 2008 at 22:37 - 375

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you MAKE people require build diversity, you would also have to allow 7 heroes, because the bars of henchies are usually terribad and you would have to go for a guild group or an ugly PuG.

Almost none of the henchie bars is a complete gimmick.

Even if you give mobs amazing general counter builds (think humility/blackout mesmer), they won't have a clue how to use the build effectively unless mob AI gets a serious redo. In fact, mob skills are already pretty decent in hard mode if only they knew anything about coordinating adren spikes, collapsing lines, switching targets on prot, kiting melee, etc., etc.

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

19 May 2008 at 22:50 - 376

This is a chance for Anet to start with a clean slate. However, i suggest that they do some things that they were originally wanted to do. I.e. Make Mesmers useful in PVE through primary only.

this is the chance to be creative. go ahead anet, surprise us

(pleasantly)

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

19 May 2008 at 23:54 - 377

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Make it HM only. The 'carebears' can stay in NM.

They like HM though.

Star Gazer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Zerohour Enterprises [ZHE]

W/

20 May 2008 at 00:07 - 378

ok, how about we make hard mode godlike, and if you dont kill the enemies in 3 seconds, game over. that sure does sound like fun to me!!

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

20 May 2008 at 00:17 - 379

I would say tweak both LoD not revert it give it stronger heal and less recharge than 10 and keep it at 1 sec. cast.It would be nice to see protective bond get tweaked some how more than it is now.I wouldn't mind some stances lasting 10 sec. or 7.

uby

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

P/

20 May 2008 at 00:24 - 380

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

ok, how about we make hard mode godlike, and if you dont kill the enemies in 3 seconds, game over. that sure does sound like fun to me!!

we demand LUDICROUS mode!!

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

20 May 2008 at 01:16 - 381

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

ok, how about we make hard mode godlike, and if you dont kill the enemies in 3 seconds, game over. that sure does sound like fun to me!!

Still easy with Ursan, sorry, your idea is fail.

They don't need to revert anything, I don't see why you're all posting up extravagant ideas for PvE changes...there's nothing needing changing. If you don't want to play Ursan, don't. If you don't want to run Paragons, don't. Everything else is balanced.

illidan009

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

Volterra, Italy

A/

20 May 2008 at 01:32 - 382

Although Assassins still get used in PvP, it seems that they are not very popular in top tier PvP like GvG and stuff....maybe buff them a little?

Star Gazer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Zerohour Enterprises [ZHE]

W/

20 May 2008 at 01:34 - 383

Quote:

Originally Posted by uby

we demand LUDICROUS mode!!

i will sign that petition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

. If you don't want to play Ursan, don't. If you don't want to run Paragons, don't. Everything else is balanced.

finally. someone who actually thinks about other people besides themselves! so some people dont play/like ursan. dont run it. refuse to group in it. leave your guild if you find your self among those running ursan. whatever it is, just let people play this damn game the way they want. PROTIP: if you want challenge in pve (lol, oxymoron), run HM with 3 heros. better yet, use henchies. theres your challenge.

this thread has also gone way off topic. what happened to keeping it on topic, eh?

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

20 May 2008 at 01:38 - 384

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

i will sign that petition.

finally. someone who actually thinks about other people besides themselves! so some people dont play/like ursan. dont run it. refuse to group in it. leave your guild if you find your self among those running ursan. whatever it is, just let people play this damn game the way they want. PROTIP: if you want challenge in pve (lol, oxymoron), run HM with 3 heros. better yet, use henchies. theres your challenge.

this thread has also gone way off topic. what happened to keeping it on topic, eh?

I did almost my entire Legendary Guardian title with a friend and 6 heroes. No gimmicks, no tricks. Everyone now sucks too bad to do it properly, so they go for easymode, ie Ursan or Paragons.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

20 May 2008 at 01:40 - 385

Let's make both sides happy: For every PvE skill you use, your party gets x% (more % for using PvE elite skills) less drops . That way people who want a challenge don't lose anything, and people who use overpowered PvE skills get less drops due to the fact it's easier for them. PvE skills don't get touched. People who play with a greater challenge get a greater reward.

To keep this on topic, I wouldn't mind seeing LoD being usable (not reverted to old state).

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

20 May 2008 at 02:15 - 386

^good idea imo.

It's coming........

ogre_jd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canadia

W/

20 May 2008 at 02:18 - 387

Quote:

Originally Posted by uby

we demand LUDICROUS mode!!

Might as well just go all the way to Plaid...

Star Gazer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Zerohour Enterprises [ZHE]

W/

20 May 2008 at 02:58 - 388

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Let's make both sides happy: For every PvE skill you use, your party gets x% (more % for using PvE elite skills) less drops . That way people who want a challenge don't lose anything, and people who use overpowered PvE skills get less drops due to the fact it's easier for them. PvE skills don't get touched. People who play with a greater challenge get a greater reward.

as long as the reduction in drop rate isn't TOO drastic, i would sign that.

uby

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

P/

20 May 2008 at 03:10 - 389

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Let's make both sides happy: For every PvE skill you use, your party gets x% (more % for using PvE elite skills) less drops . That way people who want a challenge don't lose anything, and people who use overpowered PvE skills get less drops due to the fact it's easier for them. PvE skills don't get touched. People who play with a greater challenge get a greater reward.

To keep this on topic, I wouldn't mind seeing LoD being usable (not reverted to old state).

then why not make an EASY mode with no drops at all ... all mobs have doubled cast time/halved attack rates/and slowed movement speeds.

ParanoidDenny

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

EOM

20 May 2008 at 09:52 - 390

Well whatever they do i wish they'd hurry the no up!

mystical nessAL

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

DDrk

W/Mo

20 May 2008 at 10:52 - 391

I'd want to see more normal skills getting buffed, and ursan blessing getting the nerf of his life.

mystical nessAL

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

DDrk

W/Mo

20 May 2008 at 10:56 - 392

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Let's make both sides happy: For every PvE skill you use, your party gets x% (more % for using PvE elite skills) less drops . That way people who want a challenge don't lose anything, and people who use overpowered PvE skills get less drops due to the fact it's easier for them. PvE skills don't get touched. People who play with a greater challenge get a greater reward.

To keep this on topic, I wouldn't mind seeing LoD being usable (not reverted to old state).

I definitely agree with your "Peoples who play with a greater challenge get a greater reward" but not with that x% or anything related to skills. It is more high-end areas, I still don't understand, why I get some random purple none-max stuff from chests, and none-max white weapons in RoF? Or in DoA? I mean, what the hell, this is challenge, these are the hardest areas in the game, and u get shit drops? It doesn't makes sense at all.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

20 May 2008 at 12:44 - 393

Quote:

Originally Posted by uby

then why not make an EASY mode with no drops at all ... all mobs have doubled cast time/halved attack rates/and slowed movement speeds.

They already comparatively did that by adding consumables.

Kikuta

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

Western Australia

[ICE]

20 May 2008 at 13:31 - 394

Among everything else that's been said, I seriously hope the un-funk the assassin skill 'Recall'. I was thinking up an awesome build designed for absolutely obliterating small to medium mobs in no time at all with that skill.

The idea was that there'd be a team tank that could keep itself alive for a while under moderate pressure; 6 elementalists with Shockwave, Crystal Wave, Tenai's Crystals and Recall; and a healing monk.

Team would prepare by having all the ele's cast Recall on the tank. Tank would then run off and agro, trying to group enemies as close to him as possible (casters included). Tank would call Grasping Earth when they're ready, and the elementalists would all cast Shadow of Haste, and stop maintaining Recall on the tank.

That'd be 6 elementalists suddenly flying into the middle of the fight, all of them casting Shockwave, Crystal Wave and Tenai's Crystals until they're either at 50% health, or Shadow of Haste ends (they would end Shadow of Haste with Dark Escape if in danger). Preferably, they'd cast Recall on the tank again before they disappeared.

I can only assume the ele's would kill almost everything in a ~20 second window before Shadow of Haste ended. Perhaps throw in an Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom and such for hasty recharges, for more Shockwave spam?

Either way, REVERT RECALL FOR PvE!

Enix

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

I am in a transitional period.

GRE

20 May 2008 at 15:25 - 395

Take out the roving bands of 8 Mesmers, make balanced hordes, and give Mesmers some AoE damage.

Empathy & Backfire - Make these AoE and I will use a Mesmer in my H/H groups, instead of 2-3 Eles.

Would be nice to have some Illusion AoE, but degen is silly in high end PvE (with some specific exceptions).

I am sure Paras need some buff, but I never use them. Every other class seems balanced when PvE skills are taken into account. (Intesity could be buffed a bit - the recharge is way too long to make it useful enough to replace other skills IMO.)

For Eles, I would like the 4 Sec recharge back on Rot's Invoc. That was fun to spam.

Minus30

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Belgium

DVDF

W/

20 May 2008 at 16:00 - 396

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

Of course.

Another example. Group 1 is attempting to run a SF group in some HM area. The monsters respond by bringing [skill]Frigid Armor[/skill].

Or even better, make a global server that scans trends in player builds and automatically adjust the monsters skills to counter whatever the players are running.

The ultimate idea is to create an evolutionary algorithm. Add random mutations to monsters' builds, keep the new builds which perform better than the old builds. Rarely, do a large mutation, like a change of profession.

So many possibilities, so little done!

The first idea... NO WAY. I mean, people would like to do for example an all-warrior run somewhere (eg fow) and all the mobs would have SS and empathy... See my point? It would force people to think 2 steps ahead and ruin the diversity of builds.

The second Idea I might like, if done the right way without making the mobs overpowered. It should only like change a few skills, for example when the trend is heavy hexes, have the monks bring [Divert Hexes] or [Remove Hex], but combination of everything that is vs casters/hexes so the hex build would be entirely useless, only toned down to a less interesting level.
Then again, people would exploit the trend method by bring builds that counter the counter of the trend. (something which is done now already, so not per se bad)

Steps_Descending

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

IN my pocket plane. Obviously!

Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom]

Me/Mo

20 May 2008 at 20:27 - 397

1 change hasseriously bugged me : Watch Yourself!
It used to be maintainable, then they add the attack counter (was I the only one who used soldier stance for defence?). I know they will not change the mechanic , so at least give a (much) greater attack limit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

"will be implemented this week" is a week 10days now? :S

Take heart, young one. Last time they made us wait for skill purpose, we got 2 set of PvE skills instead of 1. This may be a pretty big and pretty interesting update.

Lord High Pwner

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Arizona

KGOA Knights of GOA

D/

21 May 2008 at 02:08 - 398

Prot Bond